Author Topic: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!  (Read 21901 times)

Offline MadeManG74

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Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« on: December 05, 2014, 02:59:51 pm »

Offline Kori-Maru

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2014, 04:12:02 pm »
And they've just released Ultra Street Fighter IV not to long ago. Welp, five more years of updates.

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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2014, 04:23:51 pm »
And they've just released Ultra Street Fighter IV not to long ago. Welp, five more years of updates.

I don't mind updates myself (VF5 had 8 years of updates or whatever for example), but this game looks so similar to the last.

Consider how SF2 looked compared to SF Alpha to SFIII.

I'm worried they are going to phone it in with this version, especially after SFIV overall is a pretty poor series for SF.

Offline inthesky

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2014, 05:51:26 pm »
I'm not super in to street fighter but just curious what you don't like about SF4 series of street fighter games, MadeMan? As for USF4, I think it was always planned as the last hurrah for SF4 and it made use of transferable assets from SFXT (Hugo, Rolento, Elena, etc.) with little bells and whistles like edition select. I don't care much for updates (Guilty Gear of course will go ham with updates) but I minimize what I pay. One thing I don't like about updates personally is that I want strategies to develop and just generally have a more stable meta.

As for the graphics, well you know how lots of people during the early PS4/Xbox One reveal days questioned the graphical leap from the past generation to the new generation we have now? Well look here.=P

While I really like the look of the background stage, the character design seems mostly similar to SFIV. I'm kinda resigned to everything not being colorful anime like darkstalkers and SF3/Alpha series, but doesn't even seem like there's a design trademark like the watercolor emphasis from SF4. Personally I also don't like the zooming in for supers and freezing everything else, and something just bugs me about Chun-Li's hit model. It doesn't feel dynamic, she just freezes and takes the hit and it's kinda boring after having seen that already in SF4. The most I remember seeing is sometimes people shaking in place when hit by projectile super/ultra
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2014, 08:38:55 pm »
I'm not super in to street fighter but just curious what you don't like about SF4 series of street fighter games, MadeMan?

Opening a can of worms, but okay.

Let's start with aesthetics and un-important things like that.

The graphics are so-so, and the art style is pretty horrendous. The characters all look very odd, and have strange anatomy. It's a very ugly game. It has none of the flair and style of games like King of Fighters or Guilty Gear, and none of the detail and simplicity of Virtua Fighter or Tekken. It's just... weird.

It's also trying very hard to cram in as many fan favourite characters as possible and still manages to include retarded Deviant-art tier characters like Oni, Evil Ryu and Decapre (the fact that they hyped Decapre for about a year makes it worse. NEW CHARACTER! Get hype! So Excit- oh, it's cammy with a fucking mask).

On the topic, they were also very lazy and copied and pasted the characters and backgrounds from SFxTekken, which is the worst fighting game to be released in years.

I'd also like to point out how much I hate 'Cinematic' Ultras. Holy shit, they get old fast. I would rather have a well animated attack that just takes place in the actual match and doesn't interrupt the flow of the game instead of a short film. NOT TO MENTION, they look like they should be in Fucking Marvel vs Capcom rather that Street Fighter. How did we go from Three Uppercuts being a super into Slow Motion panning shot, dudley punches a guy, he hits the wall a tornado appears and spins him around a lot, twenty seconds later they hit the ground.

Look at this and how much it interrupts the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du3bkXYpOEc


Compared to a NeoMAx from King of Fighters XIII (note the actual NeoMax is just the last hit):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTnx527riwk

The NeoMax doesn't interrup the flow of the game and still has the effect of 'Wow that looks cool!' without taking up a lot of time. Ultras are fun the first time you see them, then they just get dull. They also don't fit nicely into combos as much as simpler attacks. Someone did a comparison a while ago with the PC version where they removed all the 'cinematic' camera angles, it looked much better in my mind.


Onto the more important stuff, gameplay:

Firstly, take a look at this video of Evo grand finals for SFIV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHtW2JJsEnI

This is high level play. This is how you're 'supposed' to play. It's the most boring shit I've ever seen in my life. Walk back and forth just outside of poke range and see who presses a button first. I can appreciate footsies, but this is ridiculous.

The game doesn't know how to be 'beginner friendly', and this has ruined the game in a lot of ways IMO. It wants to be easy to newcomers, so they included the terrible 'Ultra' system, basically revenge meter. It rewards you for losing, which is almost never good. Seemingly to counter-act this, they've included a stupid amount of one-frame links for basic combos. Coming from the VF school of thought, you should be playing the player, not the game. This puts down an unreasonable execution barrier in my mind. I don't mind hard to execute combos, but when you need to learn 1FL for bread and butters, it's just stupid and serves little purpose. If I wanted to practice button timing, I'd play guitar hero, thanks.

In addition to Ultra, you also have;
Super Meter
EX moves
Super moves
Focus Attacks
Red Focus Attacks
Focus Attack-cancelling

All of these affect meter. Again, simplicity is beauty in fighting games in my mind, and this is just saturation. So many options to throw out invincible moves and Focus Attack cancelling allowed you to do invincible moves with complete safety as you could cancel them safely if you had meter. Like a lot of things in this game, this favours the defender.

I want to point this out in particular since it's a big thing. Defense is so strong. They nerfed throws to do pitiful damage, no idea why. In fact everything does relatively poor damage in this game, leading to slow as molasses matches like the ones above. Coupled with long round times, there's less incentive to be aggressive and more to just wait and wait and wait.

Now the bugs. Oh the bugs and exploits...
Safe jumps, unblockables, crossups and fucking OPTION SELECTS. It's disgusting how rife this game is with exploits that have become the way to play.
Here is almost verbatim what a friend told me about playing his characters.
"Basically I just need to get a knock-down, then I whiff two jabs, and jump and do a heavy kick jump-in. If I do it right, I get a safe jump, if i do it wrong, I get a cross up anyway".
You could also do ridiculous shit like 'Press Down, LP and LK on wakeup. You'll either get a throw break, crouching kick or a guard, dpending on the situation'. Good fighting games shouldn't operate like this, you should have to commit to your decisions.

Not to mention all these issues were so ingrained the engine that they couldn't fix them properly, so they had to take a round-about method of including yet another system where you can delay your wakeup by a few frames to stop the safejump/crossup/unblockable nonsense that was plaguing the game.

Next is the balance. Or lack of it, rather. Capcom seems to just throw shit at the wall and see what sticks when it comes to balancing recently. It's almost universally agreed SFIV was most balanced at 'Super'. Then they added the twins and openly admitted 'Yeah they are pretty broken, lols whateva'. Nice work. Then 2012 patch, which still didn't fix everything. Now we have ultra where they MUGEN'd in five more characters to throw out balance some more. The game is ridiculously match-up heavy now.

There's probably more, but I'd have to think on it later.

Offline Randroid

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2014, 02:08:38 pm »
MadeManG nailed it. I'm also disappointed. I was really hoping they'd change up the character visuals for SF5 since each major iteration did so, but it looks like they're gonna play it safe.

I'm curious to see what the full roster will be like though. One thing I've always loved about SF prior to 4 was the progression of the series Roster. Most SF1 characters fell out for 2, Alpha characters fit in nicely between 1 and 2, and SF3 was such a breath of fresh air (under-appreciated as it was). Then they just gave up for 4, said 'fuck it' to continuity, and added the lamest new characters.

I know for fighting games story progression is not a big deal, but SF had a pattern that they suddenly broke for SF4 in the most disappointing ways. That Dudley (favourite character btw) Super you posted it the perfect example of everything wrong with SF4.

If you ask me SF3:TS was the pinnacle.

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2014, 04:24:53 pm »
When they showed actual footage, I got really dissapointed by the fact that they're just building on the artstyle of 4. Something different at least would've been more exciting. I never liked SF4's style to begin with.

With a game like street fighter, the base is pretty much solid so the visuals is  the only thing that can really change the feel for a game like this. Unless the gameplay can be improved even more somehow.


Offline Nirmugen

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 06:49:40 pm »
Well, it is Dimps after all.

Capcom doesn't do the game even the DLC fest like SFxT.

Dimps is known for reusing assests all the time.

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 08:19:46 am »
Unless the gameplay can be improved even more somehow.

See my post above for all the possible improvements.

Offline inthesky

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 03:25:03 pm »
bruh you got that topic title assist I don't remember that being there originally hehehe

Anyway there's a gameplay trailer out and I've got mixed feelings. No focus attack, but now there are destructible environments. OTG and guard break may make the game more offensive or combo heavy. Hopefully no more turtle fighter 4. Combo animations really remind me of SFXT.

It seems like the graphical theme is supposed to be graffiti or aggressive paint or something like that. It's very overt - you can see it in stuff like Ryu's tatsu or whatever it was that Chun did (spinning bird kick, I forget what it was in the trailer.) There is also some sort of weird new mechanic in the trailer that I don't understand yet.
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Offline TimmiT

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2014, 01:32:58 pm »
Gotta love topic titles that judge the game based on incredibly early footage.

Offline CrazyT

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2014, 03:55:17 pm »
See my post above for all the possible improvements.
I am not an expert on the games but that video looked very boring. i'll never be able to put my finger on what I dont like about sf4, but as a casual player it did feel a bit off. Never knew it was that bad though.. Seems the franchise has lost its focus perhaps

Offline inthesky

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2014, 09:16:50 pm »
My knowledge is kinda superficial but IIRC Fei Long has excellent pokes, and Zangief doesn't get in easily outside of Green Hand. Focus attack (the pausing animation, with the watercolor effects surrounding the character) creates mindgames that skew defense. It's a good way to psych out Zangief, since even if Fei Long doesn't have a projectile Zangief has a harder time getting in

The other thing to factor in is that Zangief in AE2012 or whatever doesn't get much play at high levels. Fuudo (fei long) is a japanese player and there probably aren't many gief's, I can only recall one (itabashi). This means that Fuudo is being cautious cause he's less familiar with the matchup/fighting Zangiefs. Fighting against uncommon characters is a pretty valid concern. There's a player making waves recently named pepeday who plays Fuerte, and same thing -- uncommon character taking wins. To be sure, both Snake Eyez and pepeday are good

 Apparently Fuudo is pretty defensive as a player anyway but w/e I don't keep up as much
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 09:06:26 am »
Gotta love topic titles that judge the game based on incredibly early footage.

I call it like I see it. I said the footage looked like shit, and I stand by that. I believe it didn't look very good.

Not saying the game will definitely be bad, but I don't like what I've seen so far.
My knowledge is kinda superficial but IIRC Fei Long has excellent pokes, and Zangief doesn't get in easily outside of Green Hand. Focus attack (the pausing animation, with the watercolor effects surrounding the character) creates mindgames that skew defense. It's a good way to psych out Zangief, since even if Fei Long doesn't have a projectile Zangief has a harder time getting in

The other thing to factor in is that Zangief in AE2012 or whatever doesn't get much play at high levels. Fuudo (fei long) is a japanese player and there probably aren't many gief's, I can only recall one (itabashi). This means that Fuudo is being cautious cause he's less familiar with the matchup/fighting Zangiefs. Fighting against uncommon characters is a pretty valid concern. There's a player making waves recently named pepeday who plays Fuerte, and same thing -- uncommon character taking wins. To be sure, both Snake Eyez and pepeday are good

 Apparently Fuudo is pretty defensive as a player anyway but w/e I don't keep up as much

You are right, I hand picked a particularly slow game, but that's because it was the game that I remember the most from recent times. There are more exciting matches out there, but overall I find the game dull to watch as it's just very slow paced and rewarding molasses playstyle.


Offline inthesky

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Re: Street Fighter V Announced, and it looks like shit!
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 01:04:59 pm »
nah it's still a slow game in general. I remember watching that at EVO this year. Incidentally the winner was another defensive character (Rose) =P. I was just providing some info about the game and a little of what I know about high-level SF in case it CrazyT might be interested.

 At least with parry in SFIII IIRC the only thing that gets killed are fireballs. it still feels and plays like a faster game.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 01:07:25 pm by inthesky »
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