Sonic Team's Takashi Iizuka on how Sega is changing its game

[ROJM]

How ?. The owes a lot to Gears, and like GOW is action 3rd Person shooter . Mindless shooting is not old school as such, it happens in a lot of old and new games alike

Which is what the japanese are good at. Taking a western genre and putting their own spin on it added to the gameplay experience is essentially a throw back to that period. isn't this what you want the japanese to do more of games that appeal to the west? because they don't do that much anymore. Now stop spinning and accusing people of things that they never said or meant. You got caught out okay, DEAL WITH IT. END OF DISCUSSION.

. I was talking about japan which not only was the MD dead naturally over there but they essentially helped kill off the MD market before it was and the general public was ready to move on.

SOJ still made and developed games for the 32X and the odd title of the MD, Plus the 32X used the same Twin SH-2's and needed development and library support from Japan . Just a mess and so much ovelaping, While SONY just had to focus all their attention on one console.

Not in 96 they didn't.

A company like Sega is across several machines, not just the high end but mobiles and other systems that don't have the same spec.

So not making all their major Big games multi platform makes even less sense, more so given the poor Japanese market.

Then define your bloody point. Saying they should be Mp when sega make arcade games( which half have hardware created to run the boards) to mobile titles that use different specs doesn't make sense.

A situation cause by Sega Japan

They should have had the balls to stop the 32X and drop and tell SEGA West to drop the MD altogether, and for the whole of SEGA to focus on just one console to develop for and Market.

A miracle he admits it was SOJ's fault. HUZZAH!!!

But really Sega wasn't making that many MCD games when the 32x came to market,the master system was dead by that time and sega long stopped making titles for it which really leaves the game gear genesis and 32x. And when the saturn did begin to gain traction the 32x was dead in 96. So, no.

It many not have been many, but it was still too much for any company. And well in 1995 and 1996 it was clear that both the 32X and the Saturn had more than lost the battle to SONY in the West

The 32X wasn't in competition with Sony more so than the SNES. Problem is that it was obvious that it started to compete against the saturn rather than be a bridgeway. What killed the Saturn was SOJ's refusal to at least carry on franchises that were popular on genesis,that would have helped its chances more.

So's the west. Did the recession just pass you by? If you think the west games market is recession proof think again

The recession hurt the likes of Appel with the I-Phone, the I-pad, 360 and PS3 have seen great sales , even with the recession, the PS2 lauched in one of Japan's worst ever resssions and sold over half a million on day one, and when did the likes of Red Red redemption ship ?  People tend to stay in more in recessions and that can mean some nice sales for games

The recession hasn't impacted yet. It will this year and then come back here and carry on saying the games industry is recession proof. believe me in this global recession all the markets are going to slow down including the games industy specifically in the west. Japan's recession was local so that's hardly the same thing and anyway it still impacted their market down the line as is evident today due to the many changes in work practices.

Unlike EA and the others who really rely on just the western market for their income, Sega historically relies on more than that

You always try to be funny and the clever one. EA games are on sale in Japan , EA do deals with the likes of Square and EA, has any Saturn users would know, published the likes of Souky and Battle Battle Garegga in Japan and looking back is no good, It's the here and now and the Japanese Market is in massive decline and the Money is to be made in the West (for most games)

No you are. EA doesn't sell well in the east PERIOD. Neither does any of the others. So stop twisting my words and coming up with BS about being on sale when they don't make a dent in the japanese market much like YAKUZA doesn't make much of a dent in ours. FGS man, grow up.

Tosh, they've been uneffected and you know it unlike the newer japanese IP.

DMC was never multi Platform and now is, and MGS is now coming out on the 360 as well as the PS3, a Marked change for DMC.

I don't see what's that got to do with anything. The point is they continue to be best sellers MP or not and in ALL  markets. None of the new japanese IP have steady best sellers in all markets and  none of the new western IP multi platform titles do well in the east.

Its great to see a quote in context

Why do your quote your self and then replay to it (has if I posted it)

Stop making things up. Let's see the thing in context shall we...

You quoted me in saying this...

New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring

The following is my response to your reply in the previous post.

But not in Japan, that's the point. Keep harping on about the west but none of those games sell in japan as well as none of the newer japanese IPs sell great over here. Again you purposely miss the point.
but let's remind him...

Then i posted what i actually said from the misquote comment you posted...

Nope only recently have they started to do that. again since 2002 both markets have been focused on titles that typify each markets particular tastes. The only titles exempt from this are the games that had a big name prior to that divide. HALO never sold big in the east but neither has YAKUZA sold well in the west. Yet Sonic, Devil May Cry and Metal Gear can sell well in all markets because they are estabilshed. New ips in the last several years have not sold as they should. This is one of the points you keep ignoring.

then i continued the reply.
 

Its great to see a quote in context so it can't get manipulated by someone refusing to debate on a fair basis. Now when it(the recession) does hit and believe you me it will, what will the likes of these companies you like to beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market. none of these companies make international appealing titles, just games that westerners like

Now stop making things up and stop taking peoples comments out of the context of their reply and implying that they said something which they didn't.

beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market

Really you post a thread saying SEGA biggest market is Europe and now try and make out it's in decline. Just look at SEGA own sales, they pale to the western market .

It was a thread celebrating sega europe which being a sega fan i'm going to do. Not only to their recent success but its also gone full circle to when europe/UK was sega's biggest market during the master system era.
And europe and america has started to slow down in the last few years. Sega is in a better position because they sell in ALL markets. The companies you keep advocating may sell great but only in the west because they only FOCUS on the west and when the west market starts to get into trouble then these companies you want sega to follow will really be in deep trouble. So don't twist my words.

That's only to the people that are into ALIENS or/and gamers. But AVP didn't reach those sales alone because just the gamers and akliens fans brought i

Everyone loves Aliens and I sales owe a lot to that, and the good word of mouth of the 1st Alien VS Predator game on the PC.  Its why if SEGA can nail Marines , they'll be seeing a million seller for sure.

Not really, theres entire genrations that haven't seen ALIENS. i doubt it was just ALIENS fans and gamers that brought the game. besides the point is it reached its audience or people that a game like this would appeal to. MW failed in that because it wasn't marketed effectivly.

No you come off it. I said that when Sega dropped support for a good two years before they went back to it.

You said it was a dead system and SEGA had dropped all support, End of

What part of i said that WHEN it happened don't you understand? But by that time when VAL came out Sega was making PSP games again. Your point is moot. Trying to bring up a dead argument which you already lost just to cover another one you clearly lost is quite childish.

Nothing to do with how well the game did. you said it flopped you said it won't get a sequel

It did flop and that's why we had the Platform switch.

WRONG it broke even in japan and made decent sales in the west to give it a moderate worldwide sales overview. Aki to JB told you this at the time as well. You also said it wouldn't get any sequels when anyone who knew about sega inner dealings knew it was getting a sequel. Oh yeah wait I told you that and i was correct. End of disscussion. You lost. DEAL with it.

The PSP is a better market for RPGs and the proof with the other recent Sega RPGs sales indicate this. try again.

Really?, so why wasn't the game made outright for the PSP in the 1st place, And SEGA putting its RPG's on the PSP and the likes of PSO owe so much to Capcom and Monster Hunter massive sales on the PSP.

That's the most stupid question i've read in a long time. No one expected the PSP to take off as a big market for RPGs at the time Val was being made did they. :roll: But now it is they're all accomadating for it. Oh wait PSO and PSU sold massivly on consoles before it switched to PSP didn't it? You really haven't a clue.

Not enough to support SHENMUE, SOA or many other dream game. Sega doesn't have the fanbase support anymore. Accept that and move on.

SEGA Japan might as well call in a day then and move on and cancel Sonic, VF, VT PSO, Moneyball and any old IP with the past SEGA and gerentaion or earlier And with regards to Shenmue, I'm sure there's a million and more fans and sales there

Wrong. You said it yourself that PStar PSP sales is down to the popularity of monster hunter, which indicates the same type of gamer is buying that title too. Sonic is popular with everyone and VT and MB are popular with casuals. Again this is what you don't understand the Sega fanbase is decimated to the point where there is only a handful left. The people who buy sega products now are only intrested in a particular series and not Sega products in genral. What part of that don't you bloody understand?

but they don't have a strong enough collective that would buy any Sega game product like capcom, konami and EA does

So these companies have the bigger and better fans and sales?.

They have a bigger fanbase of fans that will buy just about any capcom product. Thats down to capcom maintaining their fanbae succesivly down the years, sega unforunatly hasn't. Sega needs to rebuild its fanbase again so they will have that level of support. At the moment they just have a group of sonic fans, a group of VF fans, a group of SHINING fans, etc etc. There is not enough of the middleground IE sega fans that connect that base altogether like there was during the nineties and early noughties.

.Easy, because Platinum are the cream of the crop when it comes to a particular studio of developers and their titles didn't fare as well as they should. if sega can't execute that gifthorse to the public then what chance does a big consumer MP SOJ title have?

I think bay sold well for a new IP. Vanquished well that was hurt by SEGA complete lack of a push and the game lacking Multiplayer modes . Like I said even for Major Corps like EA a Big IP will fail (like say for Bad Company ) but EA gave it another go and say BC II sell by the truck load.

The point is if sega can't push a title properly, 850 000 isn't bad for a game that they hardly pushed mind you, then what chance does a main SOJ has?

That's why Sega needs to change/clean house

What SEGA needs to do is learn how to Market games and start to make some AAA In-House Multi Platform games, and make decent sequels to Sonic and the likes of PSO . To get its name back .

 Wrong, Sega already knows how to market, they pratically wrote the book on video game marketing. The problem is the current mindset on marketing games that are already going to sell big numbers and marketing to an audience that were going to buy the title anyway. But that is part of it. Again making a dream sega game like SHENMUE will not solve the problem. Not creating a MP inhouse game will solve it. Sega needs to define itself for this era like they did in past eras, create a marketing camapign around it and tie it with the readily available assets like the arcade codes and port them to console with whatever sonic game and the rest of their release schedule and tie them with the SEGA name. Then what you suggested (even though i've been saying that throughout this topic)once that's sorted out and once you have people who will buy Sega, talk sega and not just a game sega happens to publish IE once the sega fanbase is built up strong should you then start to go for SHENMUE 3.

[Barry the Nomad]

Longest post on the forums ever award goes to.... !

[ROJM]

Longest post on the forums ever award goes to.... !

Then I'll make this one shorter.

No you still need permission (or at least notify) the Sonic Team to use Sonic, just like you would with any of the SEGA Teams who hold the rights to the IP. One of the biggest pains to making Segagaga was just that

Not really, Sonic has been in MORE cameos simply because he is the mascot rather than the team actually wanting him in the game. Or did you forget RAD MOBILE? A game released before Sonic came out. Sonic bloody cameoed in games that wasn't published by sega but used to help promote the company nonetheless down to the fact they were a third party. So its nothing to do with the team rather than a mandate from sega to keep promoting the character and using every oppurtunity to do that. That's why sonic shouldn't be included.

So until we have a cameo from Gunstar heroes

Gunstar heroes eh, The GBA  game had a ton of SEGA reference's and even Cameo music from the likes of AfterBuner.

Yes but references aren't cameos are they. Try again.

One of the reasons the Capcom vs games are popular is the inclusion of a lot of characters from capcom's past be they from their first division to their second division

Yes that is very true and also all helped with the fact that in the old days Capcom, The  Coin Up division was all on the same floor and one Big Team, unlike SEGA which split it teams and let them have their own separate teams and heads.

Capcom divisions was split by the time the verses games came out. Not that different to sega really.

You don't get that from Sega hardly.

That's only because SEGA had made so little , what we've had Fighters Megamix and the likes of SEGA Racing and Tennis. That's just shows how dull SEGA Japan is sometimes. We should have had a Fighters Megamix 2 and a racers Mega Mix from SEGA Japan years ago

Well to be fair when FMX appeared not many companies were doing a crossover game at that time, i think Capcom crossover games possibly the first Streetfighter alpha or verses titles had just started and SNK preceded both in two years prior. So they were among the first but not the first to do it. Racer's megamix on the otherhand is never gonna happen.
At the end of the day all i want is a full fledged Sega crossover game that celebrates its past present and future. A wide spectrum of everybody that's had a game in the sega universe not just a game dominated by Sonic characters or DC era characters because that's the only ones the developers can think of.

[CrazyT]

Seriously.... :lol:

[ROJM]

Seriously.... :lol:

Yes, that's exactly what I thought when I first saw your ridiculous post about what an arcade adventures was in another topic. I never laughed so loud.

[CrazyT]

Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?

I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.

[MadeManG74]

Let's not get personal guys, and if this TA/Joe argument is going to go on like this, take it to PMs. I'm 99% sure nobody is reading these posts and most people aren't interested.

[ROJM]

Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?

I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.

Thank you for the medal when can I collect, it? :roll:

As for your other points...Not you wouldn't be able to because you'd have to be versed in video game history AND experience to pick holes in my argument. That comment you made in the other topic shows that you're not. So don't bother.

And I don't have a grudge, i just don't like inane judgemental posts. Its a debate, that's it. You don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

[Centrale]

I for one enjoy ROJM and TA's ongoing discussions, although I sometimes wonder if there's going to be a Fight Club-type twist where they are the last to discover that they are actually two halves of the same person.

[Team Andromeda]

Which is what the japanese are good at. Taking a western genre and putting their own spin on it added to the gameplay

You  know when I say that I get attacked and called all sorts by you.

Not in 96 they didn't.

? By 1996 the battle had been lost .

Saying they should be Mp when sega make arcade games( which half have hardware created to run the boards)

Porting Arcade games to the 360 or PS3 is easy, and Multi Platform is quite easy. Do what nearly every 3rd party is the world is doing , and that's making all the Big Budget games and the BIG IP multi platform on both the PS3 and 360.

The 32X wasn't in competition with Sony more so than the SNES

The 32X was in battle with all the 32 bit systems.

What killed the Saturn was SOJ's refusal to at least carry on franchises that were popular on genesis,

Never happened at all, and please don't bring up SONIC.

The recession hasn't impacted yet

When you post utter nonsense like that, no-one can ever take you seriously. A recession is defined by having 2 or more quarters of GPD going to negative . Exactly what happened to the UK, USA and some parts of Europe a couple of years ago.

believe me in this global recession all the markets are going to slow down including the games industy specifically in the west. Japan's recession was local so that's hardly the same thing and anyway it still impacted their market down the line as is evident today due to the many changes in work practices

They already have, and Japan recession is not has bad has the one it went through with it's banking collapse at the end of the 1990's and 10 plus years of hardship and even deflation. even in those dark time, PS2 sold by the millions and NCL sold bucket loads of games and systems.

No you are. EA doesn't sell well in the east PERIOD. Neither does any of the others

You need to start and get your little facts straight. EA games do and are on sale in Japan, and its not just GTA IV that can sell, amazingly even the likes of COD can shift over 150,000 copies in Japan, didn't the likes of Fallout sell in ok numbers in Japan

I don't see what's that got to do with anything

You can't see the signification of a game once totally exclusive and associated with a platform, then going Multi ?

None of the new japanese IP have steady best sellers in all markets and none of the new western IP multi platform titles do well in the east

New Japanese IP like Dead Rising had done well in the West, even the likes of Demon Souls can become a hit in the west

Stop making things up. Let's see the thing in context shall we

You quoted your self and then responded to it.

The following is my response to your reply in the previous post

New IP like RedDead, like GOW, like Bioshock, like SaintsRow, like Mass Effect, Borderlands  have all sold great, hence why all are getting sequels

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Its great to see a quote in context so it can't get manipulated by someone refusing to debate on a fair basis. Now when it(the recession) does hit and believe you me it will, what will the likes of these companies you like to beat sega on do then in a shrinking western market or should i say american one. Theres already been signs of a slow down already in the games market. none of these companies make international appealing titles, just games that westerners like
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Now stop making things up and stop taking peoples comments out of the context of their reply and implying that they said something which they didn't.

You're off again, quoting your self and then responding to it, as if I posted, Get a grip !

It was a thread celebrating sega europe which being a sega fan i'm going to do

Yes both western markets selling over 5 million units compared to SOS less than 2 million units, Hence why I'll say again the West is why the money is to be made.

The companies you keep advocating may sell great but only in the west because they only FOCUS on the west and when the west market starts to get into trouble then these companies you want sega to follow will really be in deep trouble. So don't twist my words.

This generation you only need to focus on the West, and the western market has been in trouble, but compared to the decline in the Japanese market it's nothing.

Not really, theres entire genrations that haven't seen ALIENS.

That's why we had DVD's, BluRay's and why Fox still continues to make and sell boxsets . Aliens is famous franchise's and generations pass on the love of the films to the next , kind of like many many classics from the 70's and 80's, like they do for classic music like Abba or Elvis

What part of i said that WHEN it happened don't you understand

You post is still there. PSP is dead (you do understand what the word Dead implies ??)  And how VAL was coming for the PS3 and how SEGA were still working on SOA II, and how VF 5 would never, I repeat never be on the 360 ;  Please you're on a massive hiding to nothing , brining up old sorts

WRONG it broke even in japan and made decent sales in the west to give it a moderate worldwide sales overview..

If it all went and sold so well, the sequel would have come out on the PS3, anyone with an ounce of common sense, would know this.

Oh wait PSO and PSU sold massivly on consoles before it switched to PSP didn't it? You really haven't a clue.

PSU was not a massive seller at all, but rather a bit of loss maker. And we can all thank Monster Hunter for SEGA putting the likes of PSO on the handhelds

Sonic is popular with everyone and VT and MB are popular with casuals.

They're old SEGA IP, from the DC era, and before the SEGASAMMY take over . What happened for SEGA to need to drop the old IP?

They have a bigger fanbase of fans that will buy just about any capcom product. Thats down to capcom maintaining their fanbae succesivly down the years

So they're bigger when it comes to games and sales . Is this really the man that loved to say how much bigger SEGA was than almost everybody else ?

At the moment they just have a group of sonic fans, a group of VF fans, a group of SHINING fans, etc etc.

Again all old IP from SEGA past, and if one can make Shining sell, then a lovely update to SOA could sell just as well if not better.

The point is if sega can't push a title properly, 850 000 isn't bad for a game that they hardly pushed mind you, then what chance does a main SOJ has

Is SEGA can't push a game tidy, what the point in even doing deals with any Corp ?. Feedback is also key. Lots loved the action of Van, but wanted some more meat to the game and Multi player or Online functions. Given them that in a sequel and push the game with say a weeks TV push and see how that goes

Wrong, Sega already knows how to market, they pratically wrote the book on video game marketing.

. You on the one hand say SEGA marketing is poor and how they can't push a title only to then say this ?. I can't work you out sometimes.
SEGA PR Marketing and TV advertising presence is completely shit and needs action to address its problem, its been an issue and a problem for far too long now

[Barry the Nomad]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: ROJM and TA NEED a podcast.

[CrazyT]

Wow, someone seems to have a grudge against me. Was me loling at your wall o text really that offensive?

I could make a whole post about why your arguments don't always make sense either, but sadly I don't take videogames "that" seriously. Keep doing your thing and i'll be doing mine. And yeah you are awesome for winning that point about the defenition of arcade adventures, you deserve a medal.

Thank you for the medal when can I collect, it? :roll:

As for your other points...Not you wouldn't be able to because you'd have to be versed in video game history AND experience to pick holes in my argument. That comment you made in the other topic shows that you're not. So don't bother.

And I don't have a grudge, i just don't like inane judgemental posts. Its a debate, that's it. You don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

No hard feelings. I actually still stand by my point that Yakuza is an RPG allthough not stated and marketed as one. I do gotta admit that my point against yours about the arcade adventure genre wasn't really strong, but that's what debates are for indeed. You learn some and share your own views and make others think as well.