Author Topic: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames  (Read 18161 times)

Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #30 on: March 01, 2011, 01:36:36 pm »
Sharky, please tone down the racism a bit.

Quote from: "cube_b3"
Why do you assume me to be an oppressive person just because I value dignity.

Bayonetta fights for herself. She knows she is smarter, faster and stronger than anyone in her game, and she is out to prove it. Just because she does stretches while doing it does not mean anything, that is just how she fights.

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I have nothing against anyone strippers can be strippers it's their choice but don't call them entrepreneur's call them strippers.

She has fighting moves that mimic stripper moves, but she was never one herself and she never actually removes anything in the game. Her hair from her head surrounds a large portion of her body because it is literally the strongest element in the game.

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Bayonetta is sexist, are you and your social circle fine with it.

Some of the members here may not share my opinion, but I have no real respect for people who exploit their bodies for profit.

This is what you have been missing from the start entirely however, Bayonetta is using her stylized moves to attack and nothing else. She is not trying to have sex with anyone or trying to trick anyone into having sex with her, that is just how she fights. Even her taunts that look to be sexually provoking is meant to be annoying and only anger her enemies, you just have the wrong idea all together.

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The marketing was all about objectification from the 1st Teaser to the one handed masterbation compatible control scheme.

This cannot be the case. Kamiya himself has said he was very disappointed with the people who made porn of the character, and that he thinks they have no respect for game design.

Video game journalists trying to be funny came up with that nonsense. In reality it is just a mode for people who do not play games to be able to enjoy and complete it on their own terms, even if they have never played an action game before.

And you do need to use both parts of the controller. Do not get the wrong idea.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline cube_b3

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 03:55:25 pm »
First of all she isn't a real character, gamers control sexy pixels, designed to objectify.

For god sake her first line was "Do you want to touch me" followed by softcore porno level sounds and erotic camera angle's durring the whole fight scene. By the end of it she strips naked with black blur covering her thinkly.

The whole stupid covered in hair storyline is trashy garbage or maybe something else. That was my first impression of her and I was like I won't touch her if my life depended on it.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 06:00:00 pm by Guest »

Offline Sharky

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 05:44:02 pm »
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Sharky, please tone down the racism a bit.

What racism? I haven't mentioned a single race in this whole thread. I may be many things but I am not racist...

I'm talking about Berquas, Hijabs (clothes) and woman being treated as not equal to men in some countries... I'm not being racist, unfortunately that just the case.

By the way, Muslim isn't a race and neither is Pakistani...
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2011, 06:11:59 pm »
Quote from: "cube_b3"
First of all she isn't a real character, gamers control sexy pixels, designed to objectify.

This is a stupid point. You might as well stop living, because literally every character from every form of media has had someone in the world sexually fantasize about them, no matter how screwed up the character actually is.

Quote from: "cube_b3"
For god sake her first line was "Do you want to touch me" followed by softcore porno level sounds and erotic camera angle's durring the whole fight scene. By the end of it she strips naked with black blur covering her thinkly.

The whole stupid covered in hair storyline is trashy garbage or maybe something else. That was my first impression of her and I was like I won't touch her if my life depended on it.

This is everyone's point. You literally have no idea what you are on about, just because you saw the first trailer you think you know everything about the game and go out of your way to make your point seem more important even though you really have no idea how the game plays, when most of us do.

Well no, that scene does not exist in the final game. She never talks to the player, the trailer you saw was supposed to be her annoying the enemies she fights.

In fact, the actual story of the game is very dark and never ever mentions her in a sexual manner, it is literally no different from the progression of something like Streets of Rage from a gameplay standpoint.

I can understand if you do not like her, but you are being far too blunt with your hatred and will not even try to see what people who have played it enjoy about the game. No, I am not into it because it has Space Harrier and OutRun music, it is actually an outstanding product, one of the best SEGA has released in over 10 years. No joke.
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2011, 02:22:57 am »
I'll just leave this here:
Quote from: "cube_b3"
Mortal Kombat 4 was amazing with those FMV endings and girls with big boobs, lol.
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2011, 03:59:48 am »
Quote from: "Sharky"
What racism? I haven't mentioned a single race in this whole thread. I may be many things but I am not racist...

I'm talking about Berquas, Hijabs (clothes) and woman being treated as not equal to men in some countries... I'm not being racist, unfortunately that just the case.

By the way, Muslim isn't a race and neither is Pakistani...

What the...?

Racism also includes one nationality, not just the race they belong to and racism can also include religion, known as institutional racism. This includes making fun out of one's language.

So yes, one can still be classed a racist. Just clearing that up for future discussion.

And on the case of Pakistan, whilst village areas have it bad, they did have a woman running for leader a few years back.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2011, 06:16:53 am »
I haven't said anything racist or mocking though, and all I said was Muslim/Pakistani isn't a race.

If I say 'Some Americans are all full of them selves' I'm not being racist... If I say 'Somalia is becoming a problem for shipping in the area.' I'm not being racist and if I say woman in some Middle Eastern countries are treated in a sexist manor I'm certainly not being racist...

I've yet to say a SINGLE thing regarding race or even mention the people of the country as a generalization. I have always said 'some people' in 'some countries, such as Pakistan'. I'm not talking about race at all.

I think everyone is far to quick to throw the word racist around, I'm saying that I don't think Bayonetta is sexist but in Pakistan where cube (the main accuser of Bayonetta being sexist) is from  it is deeply rooted and widely accepted, and it is. Maybe if I'd have said 'Every Pakistani is a sexist'... Sure, thats racist, but I haven't and wouldn't be so quick to generalize such a thing.

[spoiler:13xdutwj]I feel like I'm being told off by the two biggest hypocrites in the world, some of the things I've heard you come out with on MSN are certainly racist and Sanus has been Kogens Mini-me for years, happy to be friends with a guy who would treat you like dirt...[/spoiler:13xdutwj]
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2011, 06:46:38 am »
Quote from: "Sharky"
I feel like I'm being told off by the two biggest hypocrites in the world, some of the things I've heard you come out with on MSN are certainly racist and Sanus has been Kogens Mini-me for years, happy to be friends with a guy who would treat you like dirt...

If that's the way you take it from someone pointing out that racism also includes nationality and religion, which you are still trying to sidefoot around, that's okay I do not mind. Still find it hilarious being called one of the biggest hypocrites in the world but c'est la via.

Quote from: "Sharky"
I think everyone is far to quick to throw the word racist around, I'm saying that I don't think Bayonetta is sexist but in Pakistan where cube (the main accuser of Bayonetta being sexist) is from it is deeply rooted and widely accepted, and it is.

It is one thing to quote a well known stat but to hold the belief of someone's belief from the country he is from is considered a form of racism.

Also notice how I never called you racist, I just pointed out racism also includes nationality and religion so you are aware of this in future discussion.
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Offline Sega Uranus

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2011, 09:15:06 am »
Quote from: "Sharky"
I haven't said anything racist or mocking though, and all I said was Muslim/Pakistani isn't a race.

If I say 'Some Americans are all full of them selves' I'm not being racist... If I say 'Somalia is becoming a problem for shipping in the area.' I'm not being racist and if I say woman in some Middle Eastern countries are treated in a sexist manor I'm certainly not being racist...

I've yet to say a SINGLE thing regarding race or even mention the people of the country as a generalization. I have always said 'some people' in 'some countries, such as Pakistan'. I'm not talking about race at all.

I think everyone is far to quick to throw the word racist around, I'm saying that I don't think Bayonetta is sexist but in Pakistan where cube (the main accuser of Bayonetta being sexist) is from  it is deeply rooted and widely accepted, and it is. Maybe if I'd have said 'Every Pakistani is a sexist'... Sure, thats racist, but I haven't and wouldn't be so quick to generalize such a thing.

[spoiler:h4w4fbar]I feel like I'm being told off by the two biggest hypocrites in the world, some of the things I've heard you come out with on MSN are certainly racist and Sanus has been Kogens Mini-me for years, happy to be friends with a guy who would treat you like dirt...[/spoiler:h4w4fbar]

This is called a meltdown.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2011, 06:46:54 pm »
Quote from: "Aki-at"
If that's the way you take it from someone pointing out that racism also includes nationality and religion, which you are still trying to sidefoot around, that's okay I do not mind.

I have no idea what you are trying to say...

But as I said, I've said nothing racist. I agree nationality CAN be race related, never disputed it. But I don't believe I have been...

But religion? I don't agree... White people can be Muslims, Middle Eastern can be Christian. My English teacher was a white guy and Buddhist. Religion in general, in my opinion is silly but I have no problem with people being religious... Does that make me a racist?


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Still find it hilarious being called one of the biggest hypocrites in the world but c'est la via.
Really... surprising. I wont take this further.

Quote from: "Sharky"
It is one thing to quote a well known stat but to hold the belief of someone's belief from the country he is from is considered a form of racism.
Are you speaking in code?
I assume you are trying to say I need to do some scientific tests before I suggest that woman in Pakistan are not treated equally...

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The status of women in Pakistan varies considerably across classes, regions, and the rural/urban divide due to uneven socioeconomic development and the impact of tribal, feudal, and capitalist social formations on women's lives. The Pakistani women of today enjoy a better status than most Muslim and Middle Eastern women. However, on an average, the women's situation vis-à-vis men is one of systemic gender subordination[2], although there have been attempts by the government and enlightened groups to elevate the status of women in Pakistani society[3]
And yes, fresh from Wikipedia... I don't feel as though I should waste any more time on finding proof but if you need further evidence I suggest you google it.

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Also notice how I never called you racist, I just pointed out racism also includes nationality and religion so you are aware of this in future discussion.
Then I agree and disagree respectively.

Quote
This is called a meltdown.
I haven't even broken a sweat.
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Offline CrazyT

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2011, 07:50:56 pm »
Quote from: "Sharky"
It is very possible for a woman to be both attractive and smart.

I also find this 'what they see on tv is brain washing' to be quite... urh, over played.

I personally have never met a girl, of the hundreds of girls I know that aspires to even be a model let alone shake their stuff on MTV or what ever... The real world is more down to earth then people make out. You can walk into a shop in the UK pick up a tabloid paper flick to page 3, see naked girls, any news agent has porn magazines on the top shelf... It isn't hard to see nude girls, yet I don't know a single girl that I would say has been brainwashed to aspire to that. That mentality is way overplayed. If a girl DOES aspire to that... Why should we call it brain washing, maybe that’s WHAT she wants to do. After all I don't think it is a crime to show off what you've got.

The Hijab, as far as I am aware is kind of like a vale that goes over the hair and onto the shoulders, personally I'm totally fine with that, in fact it can actually be attractive! BUT... It really doesn't do much to hide any features... apart from their hair and it is still 'sexist' in any society where it is forced on woman.

Frankly I think we should all just cast off our clothes and rutt like the animals we are.
Women that are attractive and smart, no doubt they exist. But what kind of attracting are we talking about? Is it the "interest" sorta attract where you think someone looks pretty and she ends up being intelligent? Or the intelligent girl that gets you turned on?

It's like when you have this good female friend which you connect with really well, but all of a sudden when you find out that she let's guys take advantage of her, she sorta loses her respect to you doesn't she? I don't know if that is just me so please confirm if it is, but it's sort of an example where a woman does lose her value in a weird way when she's "easy". Which is again, why I respect the islamic perspective. You shouldn't forget that there are islamic countries where women aren't opressed. Greates example being dubai. If you'd ask me, it's the best place in the world. Women have it good, they have rights but at the same time are not "encouraged" to pull off their clothes and act like bitches. Imo dubai brings best of both worlds.

About the whole  MTV thing, it may be cliche, but you shouldn't take that too lightly. My little cousin(my cousin's little sister) is 4 years old and allready singing songs like, "slap that ass on the floor". I honestly laughed but I could see the boys kind of worrying about their little sister. The thing is, even if they'd like to do something about it, the influence around her will still be too great. It's just an example of how making it all fine for women to go all crazy n shit does sorta badly influence the world.

Well I think it would be wise to just agree to disagree. I enjoy talking these kind of subjects and hear other peoples views.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2011, 09:05:47 pm »
I'll agree to disagree here.

I would like to visit 'rich' Dubai before it fails and is returned to the sands of time 20 years from now.
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Offline Aki-at

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2011, 03:38:37 am »
Quote from: "Sharky"
But religion? I don't agree... White people can be Muslims, Middle Eastern can be Christian. My English teacher was a white guy and Buddhist. Religion in general, in my opinion is silly but I have no problem with people being religious... Does that make me a racist?

Racism does not apply solely to race. Nationality can be used as the same example as religion. Indians can be British, Chinese can be Americans, English can be Russian, Iranians can be Australian etc

Racism includes anything that can be discriminated.

Quote from: "Sharky"
Are you speaking in code?
I assume you are trying to say I need to do some scientific tests before I suggest that woman in Pakistan are not treated equally...

That's not even what I said.

Quote
To hold the belief of someone's belief from the country he is from is considered a form of racism.

To hold the belief (That Cube thinks like this) of someone's belief (Cube arguing sexism in Bayonetta) from the country he is from (Pakistan does not have much women rights, so this is what influencing Cube) is considered a form of racism.

As I said (And as what we've gathered from Cube) the reason that he dislikes Bayonetta is not because he is from Pakistan, these are entirely seperate reasons and if he hated Bayonetta he would hate Tyris and Hibana too, neither characters he does however (And Bayonetta usually has more clothes on than Tyris)
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Offline MadeManG74

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2011, 04:16:24 am »
I gotta admit, I chuckled a little when Sharky said he wasn't racist. I've heard him say some pretty racist stuff before.
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Offline Sharky

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Re: Not a bad read; Sexism in Videogames
« Reply #44 on: March 04, 2011, 07:15:19 am »
Quote from: "Aki-at"
Racism does not apply solely to race. Nationality can be used as the same example as religion. Indians can be British, Chinese can be Americans, English can be Russian, Iranians can be Australian etc

Racism includes anything that can be discriminated.

1) If I say both Muslims and Christians are wrong, there is no god. Am I being racist in your opinion?

2)I still haven't said anything racist.

3)If that is the case you've been racist multiple times against the French, Indians and Pakistanis on MSN...
What was it now? Pakistan is the *insert poor country here* of the middle east? People in your trade don't like dealing with them, why was that again?


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To hold the belief (That Cube thinks like this) of someone's belief (Cube arguing sexism in Bayonetta) from the country he is from (Pakistan does not have much women rights, so this is what influencing Cube) is considered a form of racism.
That would be racist for sure... But that ISN'T what I was saying. I never even hinted at cube being like this.

I was simply saying that if cube wants to see sexism and combat it, there is quite a bit going on in Pakistan society, It had nothing to do with their race or religion until it was brought up by someone else.

I used this as an example of what sexism is compared to what I would say Bayonetta is, a 'strong, 'sexy' (if you like that kind of thing) female lead.


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I gotta admit, I chuckled a little when Sharky said he wasn't racist. I've heard him say some pretty racist stuff before.
Oh look it's Mademan... I was wondering when you'd show up to drop a one liner in someone else’s favour. Bound to be Aki.

When have I been racist... A real example of me having anything against any race?

The only thing you will ever find out of me (and even then I'm joking) is taking the piss out of Americans... But if I hated them so much my girlfriend wouldn't be one and my best friend wouldn't be of Native American decent.

It is funny that I'm getting this BS considering I was the ONLY ONE that wasn't wishy washy about banning Kogen for being racist. Everyone else, especially Sanus were trying to tell me 'he's just funny, he makes the forum lively' When people like Kori and even Aki, Cube etc were getting harassed.
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