Who wants a Dreamcast 2

[Team Andromeda]

They went out with the Market Crash.

In the 80s and 90s video game was a niche big companies like Phillips and Panasonic failed to make a mark, and SONY with PS1 was the first big conglormerate to enter the industry.

The the likes of Spectrum did not at all, and no the PS was not SONY's  or a Big Conglomerate 1st time  to enter the Videogame industry. We had SONY and the likes of MS with the MSX, NEC with the PC-Eng and Philips with the CDI

The point with this post was that durring te SATURN era SEGA had turned into a big dum fucking company exploiting consumers of hard earned money with new hardware after hardware.

SEGA was always making new hardware in the 8 Bit and 16 bit days (Game gear, Mega CD ECT), and in those days a 4 to 5 year console life cycle was quite the norm.

Not giving a damn about people who bought 32X and abandoing it immediately.

SEGA continued to support the 32X for 2 years (God knows why) It should never have been made, but people say the same about the Mega CD, the Nomad, The Game Gear and even the DC.

With the Dreamcast a small under dog entered the scene which gave you value for money.

A new piece of hardware yet again, and small undergog ? $70 million one game project, $100 million on hardware development, $250 million on software development, $300 million on marketing (all money put up in the DC 1st year) SEGA was not the underdog (the likes of SNK could have only dreamed of spending that sort of money)

4 Controller ports from the get go unlikely the fucking PS2 where you had to buy 2 multitaps for 4 controller ports.
Built in Modem.
Pack in Browser.
Pack in Sonic Adventure (or Chu Chu Rocket in England)

This seems to be some anti SONY rant, rather than a debate on the Industry

On the other hand when I bought that shitty Xbox 360 Elite RE5, it didn't have basic stuff like rechargable battries or a wifi adapter all the things that PS3 ships with

And the wonderful DC didn't ship with Built in Rumble Pack , come to think of it neither does the PS3. Also consoles have their plus and minis points when it comes to hardware

MS is the running winner in US so they didn't give a damn about how much money consumers have to spend. SONY isn't anything better either

Both of them care and now this both of them are not charging consumers £60 per game like NCL or even SEGA did in the 16 bit days with the likes of Street Fighter II or Sonic IV

The industry needs an underdog who prevent the industry from losing perspective and look beyong the profit and loss account.

Well That's SEGA out then for starters and every corp is out to make money, why you think SEGA was or is any different I do not know. If the Underdog is your think why were even in the SEGA camp ?, they were hardly what anyone could call the underdog when compared to Commodore Atari and SNK in the 1990's.

[George]

1. Do I want a new Dreamcast?

If by this you mean, a new SEGA console. Yes. Do I want it to be called Dreamcast 2? No.

[cube_b3]

@ TA: Clearly you have valid points.
Which means either I am wrong or I haven't phrased things correctly.

SEGA with the Dreamcast was on the losing end, consumers hated the company the Japanese marketing campaign revolved around the uncoolness of SEGA. Their American market share was 1% thanks to an egg headed President who gave up too quickly and the consumer division internationally had not made a profit in quite some time. So SEGA was the underdog and they were operating with the consumers in mind.

Pack in Sonic Adventure + Demo Disk + Browser.
Built in Modem.
An Economical Price Tag.

All of this for a regular edition.
______________________________

Same thing with the Genesis, they were the underdog as they had the task to defeat 3 other competitors, while SNK was doing something different Nintendo had an illegal monopoly, and NEC was a bigger company financially and more tech savy.

You can read more on Tom Kalinske and his pitch before he became president, I am sure you may have already read it.

In the DC & Genesis period SEGA had the consumers in site, but once they got the money they lost perspective. It became all about the money (previously money was important but so were the consumers) so add ons like MegaCD and 32x were disasters, yet SEGA was so arragant that they released the SATURN without even informing Distributors and Developers.

They had lost sight of all Stakeholders and it was insane. Obviously none of the current 3 are as fucked up but they don't think about the consumer.

They have a million different bundles for varios prices which give you little value for money and the regular edition which is the most important one doesn't come with a pack-in game.

Nintendo never shipped with a Pack-In game but once SEGA started kicking their ass guess what happend, MARIO became a pack-in title.

Does that explain my point, once we can conclude this then maybe we can argue about the style of games SEGA made (arcade or otherwise).

[Team Andromeda]

SEGA with the Dreamcast was on the losing end, consumers hated the company the Japanese marketing campaign revolved around the uncoolness of SEGA

And a lot of that was SEGA own making with the screw up of trying to think it could rip off consumers with 2 32 bit consoles.

So SEGA was the underdog and they were operating with the consumers in mind.

Like NEC was the underdog with the PC-Eng in the west ?

Pack in Sonic Adventure + Demo Disk + Browser.
Built in Modem.
An Economical Price Tag

Sonic was not pack in, for starers (and yes I have a DC from Japan, USA and UK)  (I could also point out that in both the UK and America that VF was Pack in) , and given the Tech Sec on offer, the 360 was an Economical Price.
 

You can read more on Tom Kalinske and his pitch before he became president, I am sure you may have already read it

Oh Please, Tom would say anything other than admit he called it wrong inthe 32bit battle. In terms of Money in the bank, yes SEGA was the Underdog, but there again so is SONY NCL, Appel Vs Microsoft (maybe not so much now though lol)  

It became all about the money

Its always about Money. SEGA didn't make games to lose millions , but to make millions

so add ons like MegaCD and 32x were disasters, yet SEGA was so arragant that they released the SATURN without even informing Distributors and Developers.

. SEGA/MEGA was far from a disaster and you can blame the might Tom for the Saturn USA launch fuck up (SOA were too much for the 32X) . The Saturn was anything but a secret.

Nintendo had an illegal monopoly

SEGA too was fined for Price fixing and keeping it cart prices artificially High, thanks to the Console Monopoly both SEGA and NCL enjoyed

Nintendo never shipped with a Pack-In game but once SEGA started kicking their ass guess what happend, MARIO became a pack-in title

I seem to remember the Gameboy coming with Tetris . But don't get me started on NCL, they've always been a ripp-off company

[cube_b3]

Maybe i'm not making my point clearly, or maybe your trying not to listen. I don't know.

Let's try this one last time.

I am talking about a comparatively smaller company, trying to gain market share by giving consumers more value for money.

And a lot of that was SEGA own making with the screw up of trying to think it could rip off consumers with 2 32 bit consoles.

That is my point, the mighty loose perspective of the consumers are only concerned with their profits. An underdog in this context can be defined as someone who is trying to break in to the market by doing everything right.

Oh Please, Tom would say anything other than admit he called it wrong inthe 32bit battle. In terms of Money in the bank, yes SEGA was the Underdog, but there again so is SONY NCL, Appel Vs Microsoft (maybe not so much now though lol)

I think you like arguing?
As I was clearly talking about his pitch after getting the job.

My entire argument is "as companies get bigger, they forget the interest of the consumers and are simply about maximizing profits and minimizing investments".

Its always about Money.

Ofcourse!! Everything is about money!!! But the way you go on to make it is what I am talking about.

- Drop the price of the Genesis and put the best game as a pack in!

This is giving value for money, in return consumers will confidently give you money. Given how the current market is getting segregated (Wii for Parents, PS3 for the International Markets with games like Valkyria Chronicles and Yakuza, and 360 by Americans for Americans with those FPS games and all).

Given how they have engineered the new gaming land scape, they are essentially working on different segments with in the market without going head to head.

I don't play the current games all that much so I can't give 3rd party examples but those who play Yakuza and Valkyria Chronicles don't play Halo or Gears of War.

Those who do own all 3 consoles, so they are the biggest losers of all.

10 years ago I only had a Dreamcast.
15 years ago I only had a Playstation.

Now I've owned all three (sold the wii recently, thinking off selling the Shi60).

Bottom line the current hardware runners are rip-off's, over pricing as their is no one to challenge them and force them to bring their A game.

That is my point!

[Team Andromeda]

I am talking about a comparatively smaller company, trying to gain market share by giving consumers more value for money.

Maybe I should make it pretty clear then . MS lost like £4 billion on selling the X-Box console always at Huge loss, Im sure SONY have lost millions on until very recently selling the PS3 at a huge lose.  So you're really going to fall down on that side, because both SONY and MS have offered value for money with their console hardware . Also  even with games costing £30 Million to make, both MS and SONY ask less than what SEGA or NCL asked for 16 bit games

An underdog in this context can be defined as someone who is trying to break in to the market by doing everything right

Developing both the saturn and 32X is not doing anything right at all, far from it. So again on that point, I will not agree

I think you like arguing

I like debating, huge difference .  I think you like blaming everyone else bar SEGA for the failure  of the DC

as companies get bigger, they forget the interest of the consumers and are simply about maximizing profits and minimizing investments

So you must have hated SEGA since the 16 bit days  then

- Drop the price of the Genesis and put the best game as a pack in

Again I could list you tons of In-pack deals both MS and SONY have done with the X-Box, PS2, PS3 and 360

so I can't give 3rd party examples but those who play Yakuza and Valkyria Chronicles don't play Halo or Gears of War.

Blame SOJ for that, for starters . And how about those who played Sonic, SOR II,dynamite headdy, Road Rash, Red Zone, Gynoug   couldn't play the likes of Final Fantasy, R-Type, Axleay ECT . There is always going to be exclusives. All I will say is this generation of consoles there is far less  

Bottom line the current hardware runners are rip-off's, over pricing as their is no one to challenge them and force them to bring their A game

That is more to do with the price of developing console hardware this day and age . Lets look at the Arcades (since your such a fan) Where is the challenge to SEGA dominance in the Arcades,  Its pretty much a 3 horse race there too (like the consoles) and again owe a lot to the cost of developing and making Arcade games and hardware in this day and age

[cube_b3]

Maybe I should make it pretty clear then. MS lost like £4 billion on selling the X-Box console always at Huge loss, Im sure SONY have lost millions on until very recently selling the PS3 at a huge lose.  So you're really going to fall down on that side, because both SONY and MS have offered value for money with their console hardware . Also  even with games costing £30 Million to make, both MS and SONY ask less than what SEGA or NCL asked for 16 bit games

Now that is a good point powerful enough to derail my entire statement.

But for the sake of fun let's continue to the remaining points.

An underdog in this context can be defined as someone who is trying to break in to the market by doing everything right

Developing both the saturn and 32X is not doing anything right at all, far from it. So again on that point, I will not agree

Yes, SEGA completely fucked up in that regard. I've never denied or argued that point. In fact my entire argument was that SEGA got rich and blind lost sight of the consumers and started an internal rivalry instead.

as companies get bigger, they forget the interest of the consumers and are simply about maximizing profits and minimizing investments

So you must have hated SEGA since the 16 bit days  then

There isn't any thing likely about SEGA post the Genesis except maybe a few games here and there. Although I think things got back to with the Dreamcast.

- Drop the price of the Genesis and put the best game as a pack in

Again I could list you tons of In-pack deals both MS and SONY have done with the X-Box, PS2, PS3 and 360

Can you quote pack ins for regular editions, I glanced Gamestop before making that statement and couldn't see pack ins for the economical bundles. This multiple bundle fiasco that MS gave birth to sucks.

so I can't give 3rd party examples but those who play Yakuza and Valkyria Chronicles don't play Halo or Gears of War.

Blame SOJ for that, for starters .

I am sure several J games are SONY exclusive, just like many western games are Microsoft.

That is more to do with the price of developing console hardware this day and age . Lets look at the Arcades (since your such a fan) Where is the challenge to SEGA dominance in the Arcades,  Its pretty much a 3 horse race there too (like the consoles) and again owe a lot to the cost of developing and making Arcade games and hardware in this day and age

[/quote]

I am not a fan of the Arcades, I haven't been to one in years. My grip is Arcade games aren't getting ported as often as they used to. It bloody well took half a decade for After Burner to get ported.

[Emmett The Crab]

You are wrong about Nintendo.  The NES came with SMB/Duck Hunt long before the Genesis came out.

[cube_b3]

And the genesis came out with Altered Beast.

I was talking about packing the best in with the hardware without extra charges or manipulative bundle offers.

[Team Andromeda]

SEGA completely fucked up in that regard. I've never denied or argued that point. In fact my entire argument was that SEGA got rich and blind lost sight of the consumers and started an internal rivalry instead

Yes in the 16 bit days.

There isn't any thing likely about SEGA post the Genesis except maybe a few games here and there.

The mega Drive is when SEGA was cash rich and one of the fastest growing companies in Japan , and when the battle between SOA and SOJ began.

Can you quote pack ins for regular editions,

What do you mean by regal editions , because in the 16 bit days not every Mega Drive came with a game, some SEGA Mega Drive  Packs would include 2 Joypads instead.

If we're going to list official bundles, then MS JSRF/SEGT X-Box was brilliant value, MS HALO, Reach , FF13, Forza III , COD MW II 360 Bundles were all brilliant value

My grip is Arcade games aren't getting ported as often as they used to. It bloody well took half a decade for After Burner to get ported.

Again blame SEGA. Cave are more than happy to regularly port their games to the 360. Shame SEGA don't follow suite.

I am sure several J games are SONY exclusive, just like many western games are Microsoft

Not, Which western 3rd party games are exclusive to MS from 3rd parties. I can think of Splinter Cell and that's about it , well there's Metro too I guess

[cube_b3]

Glad to finally see us on the same page.

I never bought the original puke box. Although the bundles you mentioned do sound very nice. But the recent bundles of 360 Core, Arcade, Elite (and I don't know if they were any more) was pure bull shit.

I was kicked in the nags after I found out the most expensive 360 RE5 360 bundle which cost me about 500$ came with 1 controller that even without rechargeable batteries and then the absence of a wireless adapter.

Elite bundle was for impulsive fools such as myself. It is worse then the Saturn bundles back in the day.

[Team Andromeda]

I never bought the original puke box.

So has a SEGA fan, you missed out on Orta, JSRF, SEGA GT, HOTD III, Gunvalkyrie (some of the best titles SEGA ever produced), never mind the likes of O.TO.GI 1 and II (some of the best titles SEGA ever published) ??

All because of some silly beef with MS or SONY  

But the recent bundles of 360 Core, Arcade, Elite (and I don't know if they were any more) was pure bull shit

Now you're being very silly. £250 for a 240 Gig Hard Drive, 360 console with wirelesses N built in, 2 wireless Joypads, Headset and a copy of Brand new £50 game is incredible value for money. Sony PS3 bundles are also very good vaule for money considering you're getting a fantastic BluRay player too

I was kicked in the nags after I found out the most expensive 360 RE5 360 bundle which cost me about 500$ came with 1 controller that even without rechargeable batteries and then the absence of a wireless adapter

$500? Dear GOD for one that was never the official price and however sold you that, seen you coming, But if one to you your logic.

How did people who just bought a Mega Drive Model 1 felt, after Seeing SEGA bring out a cheaper and better Model with Mark II   - A console that could output Sterto through the AV cable for starters.  How did SEGA fans feel that SEGA Europe or America never bundled in the 6 button pads (even with the SF II Mega Drive Bundle) and you moan about rechargeable batteries (which cost £10) lol. And you must have been pissed that SEGA asked you to pay for the Vibration Pack, or the BB adaptor (both of which was included with the X-Box)

What the fools that paid over £270 quid for the Launch Mega CD, only to see an more reliable and cheaper model come out, not long after . SEGA played the same game it's self , they all do, and how much did the Muli-Mega and WonderMega cost ?, both over an eye watering £300 (Oh please do remember SEGA did its own Limited Edition RE DC console pack in Japan)

So I do wonder why you were ever a SEGA fan in the 1st Place. You should have been a Atari Jag, CD32  fan in the 1990's , backing the real underdgog's of that age

[George]

You are wrong about Nintendo.  The NES came with SMB/Duck Hunt long before the Genesis came out.

This is the version of the NES I had.

[Emmett The Crab]

Me too.  This was my  order of consoles owned

Sears Branded Atari 2600 > NES > Sega Master System > Amiga 500> Sega Genesis > 32X > Sega CD > Super Famicom > Saturn > PS1 > N64 > Dreamcast > XBOX > Gamecube >  GBA > Saturn #2 > Xbox 360 > Dreamcast #2 > Wii > PS3 > DS > PSP > DS #2 > PSP Go > Super Famicom #2

My first Saturn died, and I sold the Genesis1/32X/Cd set.   Sold my first Dreamcast, but was remorseful.

[cube_b3]

So has a SEGA fan, you missed out on Orta, JSRF, SEGA GT, HOTD III, Gunvalkyrie (some of the best titles SEGA ever produced), never mind the likes of O.TO.GI 1 and II (some of the best titles SEGA ever published) ??

All because of some silly beef with MS or SONY

I don't have a problem (don't like the synonym Beef - as I like Beef, it isn't something bad. How does it denote a problem?) with MS or SONY. Well maybe Sony, I had one back in the day (I was a fan - "BOY")

I missed on some great games, but I played some great ones on the Dreamast that kept me busy, even when I bought the PS2 I was still playing CVS2 on it.

I was simply never interested in the X-Box and the way MS dumped it, I was right not to buy it. I bought the 360 for the backward computability which SONY had abandoned, to catch on the games I had missed out on. Unfortunately MS kicked me in the nuts with that (though I did enjoy Max Payne 2 but not the SEGA games, I wanted to buy Sonic Heroes but the compatibility had to many issues).

But the recent bundles of 360 Core, Arcade, Elite (and I don't know if they were any more) was pure bull shit

Now you're being very silly. £250 for a 240 Gig Hard Drive, 360 console with wirelesses N built in, 2 wireless Joypads, Headset and a copy of Brand new £50 game is incredible value for money. Sony PS3 bundles are also very good vaule for money considering you're getting a fantastic BluRay player too.

Okay so previously I was just silly, lol. I'm not going to go in Pounds cause in Asia foreign Exchange will spike it to an insane level so let's stick with $.

However the current bundles you mention are much nicer, but the 360 I bought in Summer 2009 was outdated (compared to then line up of PS3's) and over priced.

As it didn't come with 2 controllers, rechargeable batteries, Wireless adapter or even FREAKING HDMI cables!!! So I was screwed (but it is my fault for not looking into all the details, I just assumed ELITE would have more then just disk space).

I was kicked in the nags after I found out the most expensive 360 RE5 360 bundle which cost me about 500$ came with 1 controller that even without rechargeable batteries and then the absence of a wireless adapter

$500? Dear GOD for one that was never the official price and however sold you that, seen you coming, But if one to you your logic.

Hold on a damn second, just because they say it is 399.99 doesn't mean it is that price.

Their is 7% tax and then I was informed it only has ROD Warranty if anything else in the hardware goes wrong I needed to purchase a 70$ warranty. I did this at BestBuy have a receipt for it and that warranty came in handy cause the controller went bad after the 1st week (for some reason the LEFT command was being registered without me moving the Analog Stick or D-Pad).

I bought the 360 over PS3 for it's backward compatibility which I was screwed out off for the most part as games that I wanted to play Head Hunter 2, Crazy Taxi, Gun Valkyrie weren't compatible (I knew it then, but I thought MS would get there).

How did people who just bought a Mega Drive Model 1 felt, after Seeing SEGA bring out a cheaper and better Model with Mark II A console that could output Sterto through the AV cable for starters.

I wouldn't be pissed and I'm not pissed that a better 360 was released. I am Pissed that the elite I bought had nothing except disk space.

How did SEGA fans feel that SEGA Europe or America never bundled in the 6 button pads (even with the SF II Mega Drive Bundle)

I thankfully got mine with 2 6 button controllers, it was a dick move by SEGA not to include it, if they actually did that to Americans.

and you moan about rechargeable batteries (which cost £10) lol.

I had a red controller so I couldn't buy the White Battery pack, I had to buy 2 Red Controller with Rechargeable Batteries for over 50$ a pop.

And you must have been pissed that SEGA asked you to pay for the Vibration Pack

Not at all, I loved buying Rumble Packs, Jump Pak, Puru Puru, Vibration Pack and so on. I actually collect the various accessories that went into the socket.

or the BB adaptor (both of which was included with the X-Box)

Had a newer batch of DC's been produced without Broad Band (after it had become, which it never did) I would have been, especially in the Xbox years.

What the fools that paid over £270 quid for the Launch Mega CD, only to see an more reliable and cheaper model come out, not long after. SEGA played the same game it's self , they all do, and how much did the Muli-Mega and WonderMega cost ?, both over an eye watering £300 (Oh please do remember SEGA did its own Limited Edition RE DC console pack in Japan)

Look i'm not some idiot, technology gets better with time and cheaper too. Better models are released (that's why I won't buy the 3DS anytime soon).

With the 360 things were different, especially the Elite bundle which practically offered nothing more than hard disk space.

With the PS3 things were even worse as it got worse with time, sure it has Mat Finish so you don't get the awful finger prints all over it but the PS2 backward compatibility is gone.

I recently bought a 300$ PS3 after months of research with Original box and everything.

So I do wonder why you were ever a SEGA fan in the 1st Place. You should have been a Atari Jag, CD32  fan in the 1990's , backing the real underdgog's of that age

SEGA was very good to me, as mentioned my MD2 came with 2 controllers and Sonic 2. While I was busy with my MD2 the market quickly threw out SEGACD,32x and Saturn, so years later when I was ready for the next experience my only option was PS1.

Then I bought DC in 2001 May (Pakistan found out by fall that it had been discontinued), and I assumed it was my fault for not buying the Saturn. Of course now I know the whole story but I was only 12.

Good talking to you.