Sonic Generations Discussion

[MadeManG74]

I just want to point out that there is nothing inherintly wrong with 'deep plots' or things like 'adventure fields'.

The bad thing is that Sonic Team does these so poorly, we would rather see them dissapear altogether. While there is nothing wrong with deep plots in a game, there IS something wrong with plots so bad they make you want to cry. Ditto with Adventure fields that have 20 second loading times for two lines of text.

[crackdude]

While I dont think Sonic06 was all that bad, it did not feel like "sonic" at all. Neither did Unleashed.
Thats the main problem with recent Sonic games.

Sonic adventure 2 had very little in common with the original games, but it just felt right! Felt sonic.

[Sharky]

I don't care for deep plots in Sonic games, by deep I mean any kind of magic, monsters, time travel, wormholes what ever...

A plot can be deep but common now, its a game about a cartoon blue hedgehog, let's not make it serious, i want it to be funny, light hearted and entertaining. Actually the Sonic script could take some ques from that Rachet and Clank series. Just not in the gameplay department.

I also like the direction they took with Robotnik in Colours, I want him to have evil ambitions but be a complete nutcase and be 'funny' in the way he does things.

Robotnik in Sonic Colours benifited greatly from outside writers.

[MadeManG74]

^I agree in that regard, plot is okay, but it's when it turns into romance drama bullshit that it gets stupid. Wasn't there something in Sonic 06 about the princesses tears being deadly so she never cried? That's the horrible stuff I'm talking about.

[Sharky]

^I agree in that regard, plot is okay, but it's when it turns into romance drama bullshit that it gets stupid. Wasn't there something in Sonic 06 about the princesses tears being deadly so she never cried? That's the horrible stuff I'm talking about.

Yeah, I think there was something about that. I never played the game past the demo and I never finished the demo so...

But yeah thats the kind of horrible corny plot I would expect in a Square Enix game like Final Fantasy. Not a Sega game and certainly not a Sonic game.

[Radrappy]

Sonic adventure 2 had very little in common with the original games, but it just felt right! Felt sonic.

No it didn't.   It felt like bad anime.

[CrazyT]

@ CrazyTails

I think Classic Sonic looks off because he wasn't initially designed to be rendered in 3D. Certain angles lead to some odd things like the lack of neck, the stubby legs having to be contorted and stretched to look right, etc. Sort of like how it took years for Mickey Mouse to get a proper 3D approximation due to his ears. On paper, they can always face the viewer, like two big black circles. But in 3D they're flat dish plates and thus look silly from the side. It wasn't until Kingdom Hearts that they had it so they always faced the camera/viewer and looked right even though they were wrong. Not sure how KHII did it, but I remember it looking great in the conclusion of KHI.

I think you're right. I know there is one little thing that they had changed since Sonic Heroes, but that was actually aplied in the modern era. When you look at older designs, you can see that the middle quills on the side are wider than the lower one`s. The lower ones are straight. If you pay attention you can see it in most designs and even in the sonic shuffle intro.
They applied it to classic sonic as well now and I thought it looked a bit silly, especially from the front.

After sleeping a night over and watching that trailer again, I gotta say that he looks great. I shouldn't be nitpicking at all. I considered long time ago that it would be impossible for such a thing to ever happen and actually sometimes felt kind of stupid for having such a request. It still feels like a dream

[Sega Uranus]

Sonic adventure 2 had very little in common with the original games, but it just felt right! Felt sonic.

No it didn't.   It felt like bad anime.

Outside of the Shadow, Maria and Gerald Robotnik stuff, the story was really not that awkward and serious. I think besides what I mentioned it is all no darker than Sonic OVA, which everyone seems to like. In comparison, SatAM, the comics and stuff were way darker.

Actually the Sonic script could take some ques from that Rachet and Clank series. Just not in the gameplay department.

While I can agree that Sonic stories have been so stupid as of late that it actually hurts, Ratchet and Clank is not much better, and it is pretty apparent you do not know much about the series.

The most recent game has a lot of death, blood and crying. The designers specifically made the last few games with their fans who started playing the first game when they were in their mid teens and are now in their 20s.

It is weird awkward furry shit and lasts so much longer than any cutscene any previous Sonic game had, and they are extremely abundant too.

The humor was not anything to go by in Unleashed or Colors usually, but Ratchet and Clank is so much more annoying in every possible way. Not to mention the levels can last over an hour, half of which is usually because of cutscenes filled to the brim of weird jokes that range from the quality of Muppet-wannabe to "This word kind of sounds like Microsoft, and that word kind of sounds like Sony! HUURRRR".

NOT TO MENTION, each game is the damn same. Seriously. I can understand the hatred for Sonic Team changing their styles, designs, concepts with almost every single release, but at least they can be creative and they attempt new things every now and then, Hell even Nintendo is more edgey than fucking Insomniac.

Also guns. Insomniac stated the official reason they stopped making Spyro games was because he could not hold a gun. I am not fucking joking. The fact you want this kind of mentality in the Sonic series probably means you have not even really played most of the games.

[Radrappy]

Outside of the Shadow, Maria and Gerald Robotnik stuff,

the heck else was there?

[Sharky]

Sonic adventure 2 had very little in common with the original games, but it just felt right! Felt sonic.

No it didn't.   It felt like bad anime.

Outside of the Shadow, Maria and Gerald Robotnik stuff, the story was really not that awkward and serious. I think besides what I mentioned it is all no darker than Sonic OVA, which everyone seems to like. In comparison, SatAM, the comics and stuff were way darker.

Actually the Sonic script could take some ques from that Rachet and Clank series. Just not in the gameplay department.

While I can agree that Sonic stories have been so stupid as of late that it actually hurts, Ratchet and Clank is not much better, and it is pretty apparent you do not know much about the series.

The most recent game has a lot of death, blood and crying. The designers specifically made the last few games with their fans who started playing the first game when they were in their mid teens and are now in their 20s.

It is weird awkward furry shit and lasts so much longer than any cutscene any previous Sonic game had, and they are extremely abundant too.

The humor was not anything to go by in Unleashed or Colors usually, but Ratchet and Clank is so much more annoying in every possible way. Not to mention the levels can last over an hour, half of which is usually because of cutscenes filled to the brim of weird jokes that range from the quality of Muppet-wannabe to "This word kind of sounds like Microsoft, and that word kind of sounds like Sony! HUURRRR".

NOT TO MENTION, each game is the damn same. Seriously. I can understand the hatred for Sonic Team changing their styles, designs, concepts with almost every single release, but at least they can be creative and they attempt new things every now and then, Hell even Nintendo is more edgey than fucking Insomniac.

Also guns. Insomniac stated the official reason they stopped making Spyro games was because he could not hold a gun. I am not fucking joking. The fact you want this kind of mentality in the Sonic series probably means you have not even really played most of the games.

To be honest you are right, I've only had a little bit of play time with a Ratchet and Clank game and frankly I found it pretty boring (gameplay wise) and didnt continue.

But I've seen some cutscenes on youtube that really got the 'cartoony jokes' just right in the script. Sonic Colours had some similar funny moments and some gold ones with Robotnik on the PA system but every so often something totally cringe worthy would find it's way into the plot.

I really hated the whole 'messed up translater' jokes... A lot of the banter between Sonic and Tails was very hit and miss.

If they could tighten the script, make it all as good as Robotniks it would be great.

[Barry the Nomad]

I just want to point out that there is nothing inherintly wrong with 'deep plots' or things like 'adventure fields'.

The bad thing is that Sonic Team does these so poorly, we would rather see them dissapear altogether. While there is nothing wrong with deep plots in a game, there IS something wrong with plots so bad they make you want to cry. Ditto with Adventure fields that have 20 second loading times for two lines of text.

Sorry, should have clarified. I like deep plots when they don't dip into tragic deaths and romance (like '06) or completely un-Sonic things like you guys detailed.

I did really like SA1 and 2's plots, as they used established characters and built off them. Knuckle's tribe and the Master Emerald drove the plot of SA1, and Eggman's grandpa and a giant Death Egg-like death ray in SA2. But beyond that, there hasn't been many exciting plots. FOrget about '06, Unleashed was okay, but had nothing to do with Sonic (replace Sonic and just about any game character could have the plot of Unleashed). Colors was fun, but a bit too light. I did, however like the lack of monster and the Eggman take over the world plan of the week premise.

I think Adventure fields could be much improved. Like, imagine having a field in the style of the GG's garage in JSRF. Rather than walking around and talking to people, you could run all about the place just messing around with Sonic's moves. Unleashed had areas like these before the action stages, but they were a bit too small and filled with too many enemies.

[MadeManG74]

Speaking of stories, I think the best Sonic story was the Death Egg Saga (as it seems to have become known) which was Sonic 2, 3 and Knuckles. It says something about the series that these games had no dialogue and next to no cutscenes either, but they still managed to tell a really good tale.

Robotnik decides to go all out and build an orbiting space station to roboticise the entire planet. Sonic chases him across the land to stop it and manages to get aboard the ship. Robotnik shows off his ultimate weapons to defeat Sonic with a robot duplicate of Sonic Himself and a giant exoskeleton.

It was basic and exciting and all you needed was some really really basic custcenes to get the point across. Sonic 3 and Knuckles kept it going pretty well with the same features. Even just seeing the Death Egg in the background of the Lava Reef Zone was such a fantastic little touch that strung the game's plot together and reminded you what was the overall story. It also just looked really damn cool.

[Kori-Maru]

Speaking of Death Egg, I hope they remake some of the good levels from S3&K with an option to play either the classic megadrive/genesis chiptune or remixed music. I will cream my pants.

And man oh man, I hope I get the chance to go back to New York Comic Con if Sega plans to have a booth.

EDIT: I almost forgot did you guys made any podcasts recently, now would be a good time to talk about this with the community.

[CrazyT]

I think if they'd really want to optomize his looks (if they want to), they should get rid of the assface and widen his eyes a little bit(not pupils).

Like so
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/ ... c_gen1.jpg

I think most fans of the classic design werent ever fond of moder sonic's assface, which was actually taken from the US design of classic sonic.
Not saying the one we have looks bad, just pointing it out is all. I would glad if they ended up doing that.

[Barry the Nomad]

Agreed on the Death Egg Saga, yo!

Best kind of plots involved Robotnik/Eggman developing a sweet weapon. Death Egg, Metal Sonic, Mecha Sonic (Sonic 2). It has been a long time since they introduced a cool new piece of tech that Eggman unleashes on the world. Eclipse Cannon was pretty cool, despite it being his granddaddys. Egg Carrier was pretty sweet, Il iked how one could run all over it. Probably the best adventure field in my opinion.