Sonic Generations Discussion

[Aki-at]

cable car, that bit I mentioned, running down the side of the building, the big truck. Lots o' homages. Can you believe some TSSMB members consider this stage to be raping their childhood? Really? A game from 2001 can be raped? Makes me feel old.

I would like to know how this is considered a distortion to their childhood?

For one thing I personally think this game will be far superior to Sonic Adventure 2, which had an incredible amount of content a large group of people (Such as myself) just did not want to play, one improvement there.

And second, the level is longer, larger and more expansive, it is a lot less linear than the original version. So why is it bad?

I am tempted to write an essay on the level structure itself.

[cube_b3]

I am very ambivalent towards this reimagining of City Escape.

I bet everyone can clearly see how the boost ruins everything now.

How you building momentum when you have an autoplay button that gets Sonic at Max speed and eliminates obstacles and enemies as well?

It would've been a neat ability for Super Sonic but not the Blue Blur.

I also don't like the reimaging of the truck, the whole razor blades make it look like something straight out of unleashed/colors, I liked how the truck would previously just ram into Sonic.

[Barry the Nomad]

I am very ambivalent towards this reimagining of City Escape.

I bet everyone can clearly see how the boost ruins everything now.

How you building momentum when you have an autoplay button that gets Sonic at Max speed and eliminates obstacles and enemies as well?

It would've been a neat ability for Super Sonic but not the Blue Blur.

I also don't like the reimaging of the truck, the whole razor blades make it look like something straight out of unleashed/colors, I liked how the truck would previously just ram into Sonic.

Quiet, you!



Boosting doesn't ruin a damn thing. SA2 City Escape: Sonic goes downhill hitting cars and they fly out of his way. Generations: Sonic goes downhill, boosting or not he hits cars and they fly out of his way. SA2: Running full speed into an enemy hurts you, gotta tap A twice to take him out. Spin dashing also works. Generations: Running full non-boost speed into an enemy hurts you, gotta tap A twice to take him out. Boosting also takes the enemy out (hey, just like a spin dash, remember that?). However constant boosting leads to a higher chance of hitting spikes or going into pits if you aren't careful. So really, boost = modern spin dash. Does the same thing. Remember Sonic Adventure 1&2? Tapping the spin dash button allowed you to roll right through enemies and certain objects. Hell, players even spammed it just as they did the boost to make it through stages faster.

[youtube:2b38s790]l62t54IU8rA[/youtube:2b38s790]

And just like the boost, this method leaves you open to flying into pits and spikes.

Your opinion on the truck is just plain stupid. Generations has already shown that we will see old things made new. Old truck rammed into you, new truck has ramming and saw blades. Straight out of Unleashed and Coloers? Try straight out of:



And even if there are similarities between this and Unleashed and Colors, why the hell wouldn't there be similarities? They're from the same series!

Seriously cube, you're just complaining for the sake of complaining. Do you live in bizzaro world? Where good games are bad, bad games are good and M. Night Shyamalan's Last Airbender won eleven academy awards?

You say HELLO to me MADAM!*

*bizzaro speak

[Sharky]

BRULZ RULZ WID DR STEVE BRULE...

This game looks amazing.

[Shining Dawn]

WAIT!

Wait!

...There's no SOAP poster between the stairs and the wooden crates!

This game is instant fail!  :roll:

[Radrappy]

You know as I got to thinking this morning about the game, the event last night, and the future of the franchise, It occurred to me just how remarkably unstable the whole affair is. This game is really teetering precariously between greatness and absolute schlock. It's the key decisions as to which crowd to pander to which will ultimately make or break it in terms of how it's quality is perceived from a more objective(that is to say, NOT fans) point of view. For instance, having "escape from the city"(which is, lets face it, awful) blaring loudly during what would otherwise be an enjoyable experience for anyone, will ultimately be alienating for non sonic fans. I can only hope that in Sega's crusade to jerk off every sonic fan at the same time, they don't forget to make a good game that will in turn be able to attract new players to the franchise.

[Sharky]

^You seem to forget one very important thing.

Sonic games are aimed at kids, the vast majority of people that pick up Sonic Generations will be kids, no matter what the loud minority on the internet say.

There is one thing about kids some people forget, kids do not have any concept of what is conry and shit... Fact.

Honestly they just don't, that's why when you send your quirey letter to book publishers and say 'my kids think it's fantastic' they'll just throw it back at you. Kids like anything, their idea of what is cool is completely different to what ours is... Kids are going to shit themselves for 'escape from the city'.

Whilst everyone can agree it's corny, I'm not convinced it's actually that bad. It's an instantly hummable peice of music... Like it or not, we both know that you know the lyrics and sing along when you play the level.

[Radrappy]

right, you make some good points.  

On the other hand it's pretty much the same as the whole Dreamworks vs. Pixar debacle in the animation world.  

Pixar makes movies that appeal to a general audience but without being condescending or pandering. Their films involve a recognizably high level of film making and story telling in addition to entertaining kids.

Dreamworks on the other hand, well, accomplishes pretty much the opposite.  Forgettable films that while occasionally manage to be entertaining, often sacrifice dignity in the sake of appealing to children.  

Why can't we be Pixar?

[Barry the Nomad]

I think you're reading too much into it radrappy. From what we've seen, the game plays great and has more than enough references and shoutouts to appeal to any video game player. Casuals will surly enjoy Green Hill, as it is a very recognizable stage, and characters like Tails and Knuckles are very identifiable thanks to heavy marketing throughout the '90's and early '00's. Fans of the early games have their Sonic and stages, fans of modern will have their Sonic and stages, fans of everything have... everything. Really, there are so many different aspects to the game that it will be impossible for somebody to hate the whole thing. Think of this as the TURTLES FOREVER of the Sonic franchise.

As for new players, like Sharky said, kid's have much lower standards and they are Sonic's target demo. Thankfully, this game targets both kids and longtime fans AND Sonic Team seems to be giving a damn and are producing a great looking and playing title. This ain't no '06.

Also, sad to say, but if the thing has "SONIC" on the box, it's a guaranteed sale for any parent who lets their kids play Sonic games. If little Timmy played Free Riders, Colors, 4 or SASAR last year then I'm pretty sure either mommy will get Timmy the game for the holidays or Timmy will ask for it. Timmy just wants Sonic, he doesn't really care about Fang cameos or City Escape remixes.

Also, I wouldn't assume every living person considers city escape's theme to be alienating and awful. You just seem to hate it a whole lot. From the footage of Sonic Boom, it seemed most everyone was singing along. The thing is kitschy, like a lot of the music found in late '90's/early '00's SEGA games. Kitsch sells.

Why can't we be Pixar?

I really don't get that comparison. Sonic games aren't about high level storytelling or deep characters, so by your examples Sonic has always been more akin to Dreamworks. Then again, Sonic is not Dreamworks. Sonic is SEGA, and SEGA is about a lot of things.

You mean visuals? Because Sonic Team have done an amazing job in that department in Unleashed and this game (and Colors, despite the Wii's drawbacks). So in that regard, Sonic is more like Pixar.

Do you mean Sonic Team sacrifices their dignity by appealing to fans by bringing back old levels and music? Because that is damn awesome, I see no dignity lost there.

Personally, I don't see how the Pixar/Dreamworks stuff can even compare to Sonic games.

[George]

Sonic Team tried to be pixar, didn't you guys play Unleashed?

Just isn't what Sonic is about.

[Barry the Nomad]

Why can't we be Blue Sky Studios?

[Radrappy]

It's quite easy really.  Replace storytelling with gameplay.  

Pixar - Mario

Dreamworks - Sonic

One of them is timeless.

[Radrappy]

Also, I wouldn't assume every living person considers city escape's theme to be alienating and awful. You just seem to hate it a whole lot. From the footage of Sonic Boom, it seemed most everyone was singing along. The thing is kitschy, like a lot of the music found in late '90's/early '00's SEGA games. Kitsch sells.

What.  That was a sonic fan event.  Of course the people there have some kind of affection for it.  And yes, I think it's terrible.  And to be clear, I did really enjoy what I played of generations.  I think they're doing a great job with it thus far.  But I think that there is a time to be more discrete when it comes to including certain things.

[Barry the Nomad]

Wait... now you're really lost me. How the heck does Pixar storytelling translate to Sonic gameplay. Or how would one even replace one for the other? Colors had minimal story, Generations is said to also have a minimal story with an emphasis on gameplay. Is that what you mean? Emphasis on gameplay rather than story? Because in that regard, Sonic is doing just that. Is Sonic Dreamworks because he has an attitude and likes to ride skateboards? Because he has been doing that since '91.

This is a really weird, and weak, comparison.

What. That was a sonic fan event. Of course the people there have some kind of affection for it. And yes, I think it's terrible. And to be clear, I did really enjoy what I played of generations. I think they're doing a great job with it thus far. But I think that there is a time to be more discrete when it comes to including certain things.

I really think it's a non-issue for most people. I have yet to see an article proclaiming Generations to be shit because it contains a cheesy song. Escape From the City is the stage music, so if the stage is going to be shown off, it's going to be heard. It comes with the territory. How, and why, would SEGA be discrete about something like that? Should they mute all the demos so as to not turn off the 1% of folk who will hate the game based on that one song?

[Radrappy]

You're taking the analogy way too literally.  It's more about quality and reputation.  

Pixar as a brand is very strong because they have a reputation for quality.  Mario is the same way.  When someone buys a Mario game, they know exactly what they're getting : a high quality gaming experience that is consistent with the Mario aesthetic.

Dreamworks on the other hand has a bit of an identity crisis.  Their movies tend to be of lower quality and have no sense of direction.  Each new DW movie is almost a different genre altogether.  They're scrambling to find something that works.  Their reputation is also pretty poor.  You go into a DW movie expecting bad jokes and decisions of bad taste.  Basically, sonic games.  Since SA1, sonic has been about buttrock, bad stories, glitchy gameplay, and half baked playstyles.  Mario on the other hand, solid as a rock.  

Hope that helps.