The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America

[Team Andromeda]

the point was gameplay trumps state of the art engines everyday

Never said otherwise , but when a game is 1st shown off in a screen shot or in a small preview vid all one has to go on is how the game looks and sounds . When I was going into the Arcades back in the early 80's what drew me to Space Harrier and the OutRun coin ups was the amazing sound and visuals on display and other hand G-Loc which looked and sounded amazing play like utter rubbish.

You can't say simply because of the hardware they're on that they look brilliant,

Why not, when the Wii U is hardly any more powerful than the 360 or PS3 . Pikmin III looks quite stunning in parts .

I don't have to take back something because I never even mentioned

It quite clear what you said ,It's quite obvious you can't find the quote and trying to backtrack . Like I said, I never ever made out that the Hedgehog engine was more impressive than either Capcom's MT Framework or EA/Dice Frostbite engines.

The point was about content

What every way you want to class it, its hard to get worked up about a game that looks and plays almost exactly the same on the PS4 as it does on the PS3 and you name me any game that doesn't have 'content' because every single game ever made does , The content that is in Ishi on the PS4 is exactly the same as what's in the PS3 - . Like I say at the mo SEGA Japan don't have any next gen tech to show off at the mo , do they ? .

You have no idea how the top brass works though

And you do ? . The money men will always look at how the last game performed and sold that's what usually either spells a end to a game or when the game is green lite  to produce a sequel . Tying Sonic to the Wii U was just a total cock up on SEGA/Sammy port and lets hope that SEGA don't make the same mistake again and make Sonic multi platform again 



 

[Aki-at]

Never said otherwise , but when a game is 1st shown off in a screen shot or in a small preview vid all one has to go on is how the game looks and sounds . When I was going into the Arcades back in the early 80's what drew me to Space Harrier and the OutRun coin ups was the amazing sound and visuals on display and other hand G-Loc which looked and sounded amazing play like utter rubbish.

We're not in the 1980s anymore, the industry has changed. But you did make the (poor) correlation between graphics and the best games.

Why not, when the Wii U is hardly any more powerful than the 360 or PS3 . Pikmin III looks quite stunning in parts .

Because if we're talking about graphics that wow people on solely that, graphics, then the Wii U is a poor choice to make that argument.

It quite clear what you said ,It's quite obvious you can't find the quote and trying to backtrack . Like I said, I never ever made out that the Hedgehog engine was more impressive than either Capcom's MT Framework or EA/Dice Frostbite engines.

No it's quite clear you have problems either understanding English or poor recollection of the events. It's been established by every major forum member here your defensive attitude towards the engine.

I have no need to quote you on anything as you clearly started this and continue to drag up (Incorrectly remembered.) past events.

What every way you want to class it, its hard to get worked up about a game that looks and plays almost exactly the same on the PS4 as it does on the PS3 and you name me any game that doesn't have 'content' because every single game ever made does , The content that is in Ishi on the PS4 is exactly the same as what's in the PS3 - . Like I say at the mo SEGA Japan don't have any next gen tech to show off at the mo , do they ? .

Again you aren't getting grips with what the word content means which is why you always bring up the next gen tech for some reason. Content means new video games and I'm sure plenty of people would like to play Ishin or Zero on either console, this wasn't a debate about is actually producing the best looking game but if SEGA has enough content produced to support some player's appetite.

And you do ? . The money men will always look at how the last game performed and sold that's what usually either spells a end to a game or when the game is green lite  to produce a sequel . Tying Sonic to the Wii U was just a total cock up on SEGA/Sammy port and lets hope that SEGA don't make the same mistake again and make Sonic multi platform again 

And have I implied that I know what is going in their heads? No, however I have pointed out numerous times the fallacy of your arguments and the incorrect judgement you make. This splinter of discussion only began because you wanted to drum hard that the series was no longer a multimillion seller then went further off in how you tried to paint knowing the inner workings of SEGA.

However after confirming Sonic is still going to be appearing on consoles, following two disappointments on the Wii U, I think it's fair to say you've been proven wrong again.

[Team Andromeda]

We're not in the 1980s anymore, the industry has changed

No we're in the modern age where games are shown off straight away and so trying to make a impact is even more important . No more waiting for the latest issue of a gaming mag or a trade show . Games are shown off also as soon as they're announced and in most cases long before the basic gameplay and game functions are all in . So all we have to go on is the screen shots or the CGI intro and if we're lucky a gameplay vid

Because if we're talking about graphics that wow people on solely that, graphics

Well its hard to get 'wow' with the Wii U, but that doesn't take away from some of its better looking games like Pikmin III

It's been established by every major forum member here your defensive attitude

No what's quite clear is you can't find and produce those quotes . So please take it back. I never ever made out Hedgehog engine is better than MT Framework or Frostbite at all.

game but if SEGA has enough content produced to support some player's appetite

C'mon then what next gen tech have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan ?

However after confirming Sonic is still going to be appearing on consoles, following two disappointments on the Wii U, I think it's fair to say you've been proven wrong again

I'll think you find I was one of the ones calling SEGA out for tying in the Wii U and that Sonic should be multi platform, just a shame SammySEGA didn't see the same years back. Maybe they'll wake up to making PSO II multi platform for the consoles too

 

[Aki-at]

No we're in the modern age where games are shown off straight away and so trying to make a impact is even more important . No more waiting for the latest issue of a gaming mag or a trade show . Games are shown off also as soon as they're announced and in most cases long before the basic gameplay and game functions are all in . So all we have to go on is the screen shots or the CGI intro and if we're lucky a gameplay vid

But your point is in relation to wow-ing people and evidently we've seen that wow-ing or impressing people in the final product has little to do with graphics but gameplay, a correlation you tried to prove but it is false.

Well its hard to get 'wow' with the Wii U, but that doesn't take away from some of its better looking games like Pikmin III

The point is the graphics is not what sold these games but their gameplay.

No what's quite clear is you can't find and produce those quotes . So please take it back. I never ever made out Hedgehog engine is better than MT Framework or Frostbite at all.

Not at all, I don't need to produce quotes to the one who always throws baseless accusations, failing to understand context or just lacking the vocabulary in knowing what certain words mean.

C'mon then what next gen tech have we got to look forward too from SEGA Japan ?

I don't care about the tech about a game, I care if it's a good game and that's what the majority of people want, good games.

I'll think you find I was one of the ones calling SEGA out for tying in the Wii U and that Sonic should be multi platform, just a shame SammySEGA didn't see the same years back. Maybe they'll wake up to making PSO II multi platform for the consoles too

That's not the point and besides, you act as if you were the only one thinking Sonic on the Wii U was a good idea, there was a massive outcry within this very board about that decision.

The point is though is you implied that Sonic is neither a multimillion seller anymore nor is the brand in good health and that SEGA's upper management would be considering axing the mainline Sonic series which just was not the case.

[Team Andromeda]

But your point is in relation to wow-ing people and evidently we've seen that wow-ing or impressing people in the final product has little to do with graphics but gameplay

The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..

The point is the graphics is not what sold these games but their gameplay

I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .

Not at all, I don't need to produce quotes to the one

You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.

I don't care about the tech about a game

So nothing then . So lets leave it at that

That's not the point and besides, you act as if you were the only one thinking Sonic on the Wii U was a good idea

It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .

The point is though is you implied that Sonic is neither a multimillion seller anymore nor is the brand in good health and that SEGA'

Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here,  there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game

[Aki-at]

The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..

Most have a decent idea about how gameplay is, the ones that have relied on graphics have all been failures so far.

I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .

Art direction = / = technological specification

You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.

They do exist, you have shown to be highly defensive of the Hedgehog Engine. This is the truth and had arguments with myself, Orta, MadeManG and George about it. Why am I not bothering, why should I? You initiated the mud slinging match, amongst other inccorect statements, because you couldn't understand my points or the English I used (Such as "several")

So nothing then . So lets leave it at that

So what was the point, you asked and it wasn't related to the question at all, another ploy to take this argument somewhere it was never meant to be?

It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .

Unfortunately no it wasn't. You moved this discussion from the health of the Sonic brand/is the series a million seller to here, when it has no relevance other than why SEGA put Sonic on the Wii U which wasn't what we were debating.

Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here,  there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game

Oh please, like Sonic wasn't the butt of jokes in 2005 with Shadow the Hedgehog? Or Sonic 06? Or Sonic Unleashed? Don't try and spin this into a recent event, this has been going on for a decade now and it's not because Sonic was on the Wii U.

Sales wise Sonic 06 wasn't even a million seller in it's initial period but it got there eventually. Sonic: Lost World has actually sold to date a faster rate than 06. But this was besides the point, you flip flop all over the place you don't even know what you're arguing, fact is the series isn't in bad health because the very moment it becomes multiplatform again it instantly becomes a million seller.

Laughable you call Sonic Team good in one moment but wash away all the sins they've done to the franchise beforehand.

[jonboy101]

The modern age is about getting people hyped into your new product and in the internet age there is no waiting for trade shows , no waiting for the last gaming mag's . You can see, hear how the game moves and sounds almost as soon as the game is 1st announced to the public .Most people when a game is 1st shown off, will only see how a game looks and sounds, rather than how the game plays ..

I'm simply saying they're going looking games, nothing about the gameplay .You can't produce the quotes, becasue they don't exist . So please take it back.
So nothing then . So lets leave it at that

It is the point . It was a huge cock up and to think it's these people running SEGA and calling the shoots .

Just look at all the press and forums - Sonic is the butt of all jokes and even on here,  there's people that are making out maybe its time to give Sonic a rest. Sales wise its a face that the last 2 console games aren't even close to being million sellers ., So lets not try and make out Sonic is in good health at the mo .
The Sonic Team are good. They just need the time and backing to make a very good multi platform Sonic Next gen game

TA, I thought you were pretty on board with the Hedgehog Engine? I'm not going to spend time going through the past forum posts either, but I honestly thought you were very into it in the past. I might be wrong, but I thought you compared it favorably to Yakuza engine and other PS3-gen engines.


Being a good looking game doesn't make it an impressive game. Graphics have more or less maxed out. No one cares about them anymore.


Sonic Boom was just one in a very long series of cockups. I don't think it spells doom for the series. I don't think Sonic has been "healthy" since Sonic Heroes. Sonic Boom and Lost World didn't sell millions, but they will long term. Sonic and the Secret Rings took forever to sell, but it damn near broke 3 mill didn't it? People don't buy Sonic full price, and haven't since the Dreamcast. He's a mascot without a system. 

[Team Andromeda]

I might be wrong, but I thought you compared it favorably to Yakuza engine and other PS3-gen engines.

No you're not. Its far better than the Yakuza game engine and imo Sonic Gen is a far better looking game than any of the Yakuza games and one of the better game engiens to come from SEGA Japan .


Capcom MT Framework engine is much more impressive though and so is frostbite

Sonic Boom and Lost World didn't sell millions, but they will long term. Sonic and the Secret Rings took forever to sell, but it damn near broke 3 mill didn't it? People don't buy Sonic full price, and haven't since the Dreamcast. He's a mascot without a system.

That's not going to happen with the Wii U as we all know its a platform that is already a nothing system . Sonic Lost World should have been multi platform from the get go . I like the Sonic Team they have some nice tech and did have some good idea's . Just totally let down by the higer ups who's got them working on Mobile games as well as limiting them to just Nintendo development which was a total cock up in anyone book.


With luck the Team will be allowed to make a Next Gen multi platform Sonic with some really nice tech

[jonboy101]

At the beginning of the gen I don't think Wii u development would have looked as unattractive. Sonic Adventure 2 sold great on the GameCube was likely what was going through their heads. I doubt Sega will do any more Wii U exclusives.

[Team Andromeda]

At the beginning of the gen I don't think Wii u development would have looked as unattractive. Sonic Adventure 2 sold great on the GameCube was likely what was going through their heads. I doubt Sega will do any more Wii U exclusives.

It was very clear early in that the Wii U was facing dismal sales and 3rd parties were having a hard time with the unit. With luck Sammy will see sense and also get PSO II on the consoles too

[jonboy101]

Right, but the exclusivity deal was likely signed fairly early on; possibly before the Wii U was out.


I imagine Sega also reasoned that dismal early sales don't always mean dismal sales will be forever. The PS3 launched to abysmal initial sales as well (admittedly not this bad). I doubt Sega would have been better off just canceling.




PSO2 needs to be on consoles, definitely.