The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions

[Phantasos]

I don't think fans of a series necessarily think what's marketable or not when they ask for a series they like. They're consumers, not marketeers. I'd rather have Panzer Dragoon than Jet Set Radio, although I wouldn't mind either.

It would be nice for a PC port for either of them, considering Sega of Europe's current plan.

[crackdude]

Either way, P5 is now Sega property. As such it is now a Sega game. The Persona series is now a Sega series, and one most of us would agree should be focused on rather than gambling resourses on two decade old franchises with a fanbase of 4 people

[Draikin]

Except the bit about Crimson Dragon. Once again, that game was sabotaged by Microsoft in every way that counts, whether you're talking about how they forced the game from the 360 to a launch Xbone game, killing the install base to shit, or how they completely butchered the gameplay by forcing them to make the game based around motion controls since Kinect was totally the future or how coupled with both these facts, add a console launch so universally shitty, it made the PS3 look good in comparison.

You can add a butchered soundtrack, altered storyline and micro-transactions to that list. Seriously, they took Saori Kobayashi's original Crimson Dragon soundtrack and had someone remaster it to sound like something out of Halo. It was nothing short of disrespectful. Compare these:

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amxk3yozjKk
Remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szhrSf29nrE

The original has a definite "Panzer Dragoon" feel to it. The remix feels completely unnecessary, it was altered just for the sake of making it sound more "epic".

As for Panzer Dragoon: Panzer Dragoon Orta is arguably the best railshooter ever made. I'm certain it could be profitable if it were to be converted in HD and sold at around $20. It's true that railshooters aren't in high demand but there's also no competition. Might as well fill the void by porting one of the best post-console era games in their catalog.

A new Panzer Dragoon game is a different story. I agree it'd be hard to sell. And quite frankly, Panzer Dragoon is one of Sega's franchises that hasn't been ruined with poor sequels. Perhaps it's better left alone.

[Phantasos]

Wow, I had no idea they re-purposed the music for western audiences. That's less about the core appeal of the game and more about the integrity of the product itself. Add that one to the list.

I mean, I'm not trying to give the Xbone that much shit as Don Mattrick was dead set in his magnificent incompetence in destroying the Xbox brand as whole and his view of the console was half the reason why the game was butchered. As it is, it's a pretty sweet game, especially with the patched co-op which was an interesting idea. But it was fucked, no denying that. The 360 version was finished and they still didn't release it, all for the sake of the Xbone.

The worst part is that Yukio Futatsugi wanted to make a sequel that would be the equivalent of Panzer Dragoon Saga, a big scoped RPG but since the sales were shit, he was relegated to Phantom Dust and that's pretty much frozen right now.

[Radrappy]

Either way, P5 is now Sega property. As such it is now a Sega game. The Persona series is now a Sega series, and one most of us would agree should be focused on rather than gambling resourses on two decade old franchises with a fanbase of 4 people

I get the feeling lots of people here don't understand how branding works.  Like, at all.

When a studio/company with a strong brand identity is acquired and is pretty much left to its own devices, it doesn't dissolve into the parent company's brand.  It's the reason why no one credits Sega with CA's TW games.  It's the reason no one credits Square Enix with Tomb Raider or Deux Ex.  And it's the reason no one will credit or associate Persona with Sega.  And why should they?  These companies worked hard to carve out names and franchises for themselves long before they were purchased.


And until Sega starts developing games that their brand is known for, it doesn't matter how many great companies they gobble up.  The brand still won't be worth squat in the eyes of the only group that matters : consumers. 

[crackdude]

That has nothing to do with what I said. Sega needs to make money, that's why it's been restructuring, moving offices, taking long to localize games, focusing on 2/3 games per year, etc.
In that context what do you think Sega should focus resources on: a game produced by a recently aquired studio which has a huge following and expectation behind it, or a sequel to a series abandoned 13 years ago for lack of interest from the public?

You choose.

Another point, with branding in mind: why don't all Sega studios have the Sega name on it? Sega Atlus would be a no brainer. Sega Creative Assembly or something as well.

Fucks sake, a Sega studio is making a fucking Halo game and Sega won't have any credit at all as a brand. What's even the point

[Aki-at]

That's all the more frustrating, though. I know i pulled the old "THEY ONLY MAKE AAA GAMES" argument but they've actually do a lot of mid tier projects with a specific niche. So why the fuck do they pull the "no sales" angle when it comes to a series that's established as their flagship rail shooter series? It's not going to sell much, just make a game according to their expectations, it's how they make Yakuza work. It's a fucking good looking game and it has top notch gameplay but it's obviously a cheaper game compared to GTA or Final Fantasy. Basically what George said.

Well Panzer Dragoon hasn't had a massively successful entry in what, 19 odd years? (I'll get back to you with sale figures later on) so the company would be hesitant to try another sequel. Besides they're asking a guy who's totally unrelated to the series, part of a development team who has no connection to the series either. I don't think the appetite is there either within SEGA, mostly because most of the original devs have left, to make a Panzer Dragoon sequel. Kodama came up with 7th Dragon and still works at SEGA, ditto with Sawada and his perverted version of Shining and both series are still getting sequels despite sub 200,000.

When a studio/company with a strong brand identity is acquired and is pretty much left to its own devices, it doesn't dissolve into the parent company's brand.  It's the reason why no one credits Sega with CA's TW games.  It's the reason no one credits Square Enix with Tomb Raider or Deux Ex.  And it's the reason no one will credit or associate Persona with Sega.  And why should they?  These companies worked hard to carve out names and franchises for themselves long before they were purchased.

Yeah about that, the American developer behind Deus Ex no longer exist, ditto with the British developer that created Tomb Raider. The new developers were not the one that carved a name for themselves, they built off an established developer thanks to Square's funding.

[Team Andromeda]

Some people might find that Sakai-san worked on Saga, which for many was the best Panzer Dragoon game going and for many if SEGA were to make a new Panzer game then it should be Saga II and not on-rails shooter sequel to Orta .

To me SEGA is right not to make a sequel to Orta or maybe even Saga II - The market isn't there for a AAA Big Budget shooter (which are what the Panzer games were) and it be very risky for a Saga II given that even RPG's don't sell like they used too . More upset that all Nagoshi-san can think of its endless sequels to Yakuza instead of letting what are the best team inside SEGA and best producer inside SEGA make a work on a new AAA IP .

Fucks sake, a Sega studio is making a fucking Halo game and Sega won't have any credit at all as a brand. What's even the point

SEGA and CA will get credit and a ton of cash off MS and also I'm betting many inside CA are looking forward to work on such a IP in genre they know best

[Radrappy]

Yeah about that, the American developer behind Deus Ex no longer exist, ditto with the British developer that created Tomb Raider. The new developers were not the one that carved a name for themselves, they built off an established developer thanks to Square's funding.

That's true!  But it still doesn't matter.  Tomb Raider and Deus Ex were such strong brands before they were purchased that the point still stands.  Also, If you're a fan of Square Enix, chances are it's not because of games like Tomb Raider.  The Square Enix brand is also strong and individual. 

[Team Andromeda]

That's true!  But it still doesn't matter.  Tomb Raider and Deus Ex were such strong brands before they were purchased that the point still stands.  Also, If you're a fan of Square Enix, chances are it's not because of games like Tomb Raider.  The Square Enix brand is also strong and individual. 

Yep same goes for SEGA and the likes of Relic.

[EnternalHope]

Btw, not trashing Crimson Dragon, since it looks nice to many PD fans. But the general market responded with a resounding "meh", and I wonder if they got any profit out of it at all

Finally! A SEGA community where people understand that Sega's IPs just don't profit or make money because this generation doesn't remember or care about Sega's games.

[EnternalHope]

Some people might find that Sakai-san worked on Saga, which for many was the best Panzer Dragoon game going and for many if SEGA were to make a new Panzer game then it should be Saga II and not on-rails shooter sequel to Orta .

To me SEGA is right not to make a sequel to Orta or maybe even Saga II - The market isn't there for a AAA Big Budget shooter (which are what the Panzer games were) and it be very risky for a Saga II given that even RPG's don't sell like they used too . More upset that all Nagoshi-san can think of its endless sequels to Yakuza instead of letting what are the best team inside SEGA and best producer inside SEGA make a work on a new AAA IP .


SEGA and CA will get credit and a ton of cash off MS and also I'm betting many inside CA are looking forward to work on such a IP in genre they know best

Development costs for Triple AAA games starting skyrocketing in 2006 and peaked in 2009. Many developers and who publishers who published risky expensive games since then have gone defunct.

[Team Andromeda]

Many developers and who publishers who published risky expensive games since then have gone defunct.

Like who ? .That's not to say  developers haven't goen bust due to rising costs , loads of them went bust with the move from 16 bit to 32 bit.

[EnternalHope]

Like who ? .That's not to say  developers haven't goen bust due to rising costs , loads of them went bust with the move from 16 bit to 32 bit.

THQ,Midway,LucasArts,Agetec,Eidos.


Just to name a few, all went defunct during 2008-2013.


Atlus would have closed its doors too, had SEGA not purchased their parent company Index Corporation.

[Team Andromeda]

THQ,Midway,LucasArts,Agetec,Eidos.


Just to name a few, all went defunct during 2008-2013.


Atlus would have closed its doors too, had SEGA not purchased their parent company Index Corporation.

I think you to find the likes of LucasArts  just pulled out and most of those corps were taken over (much like Sega it's self) Only THQ went bust.