Sonic 25th Anniversary - Offical Topic.

[Sharky]

Bit weird I know, but what do we think the story of Sonic 2017 will be? I know in the end, it'll be straight forward, but going by the trailer, it seems to me there's a bit more in it this time. As me and Barry previously discussed, it seems like they're going for the soft reboot like Days of Future Past with Robotnik messing with time.

I wonder if modern Sonic will have to go back and stop modern Robotnik and we'll see the previous adventures wiped away in some way. Saying that, there doesn't seem to actually be a timeline anyway.

I dont think theres a real timeline for Sonic games... They all exist in their own little bubbles, some are sequals like Sonic 1 2 and 3k... Adventure 1 and 2... Colours and Lost World... But mostly they seem unconnected.

[Barry the Nomad]

Bit weird I know, but what do we think the story of Sonic 2017 will be? I know in the end, it'll be straight forward, but going by the trailer, it seems to me there's a bit more in it this time. As me and Barry previously discussed, it seems like they're going for the soft reboot like Days of Future Past with Robotnik messing with time.

I wonder if modern Sonic will have to go back and stop modern Robotnik and we'll see the previous adventures wiped away in some way. Saying that, there doesn't seem to actually be a timeline anyway.

I don't think they will go that far, but I do think they are going for that "darkest timeline" sort of story where shit hits the fan, Sonic calls on his friends from both past and present, and they take on Eggman. I feel that if time travel does play a part, it will mainly be when Classic Sonic is called upon and perhaps a good/bad future mechanic like Sonic CD.

I dont think theres a real timeline for Sonic games... They all exist in their own little bubbles, some are sequals like Sonic 1 2 and 3k... Adventure 1 and 2... Colours and Lost World... But mostly they seem unconnected.

SEGA and Sonic Team do have a bible that they reference, so there is a loose continuity there. From what I've gathered, the Genesis/Mega Drive originals are forever the backstory and that, like Sonic X, there exists two worlds (humans and animals) that have since merged. This is why Iizuka said in an interview back in 2010 that some games take place in the human world (Adeventure, Adventure 2, Unleashed) and some in the animal world (Heroes, Colors, Generations) however in a recent interview with Aaron Webber he clarified this a little by saying that these two worlds are two planets. So there was our Earth and Sonic's Earth but they have since merged.

Personally, for the sake of sanity, Aaron likes to think of each era and storyline as its own contained world. I agree with him on this. I mean, yeah, retroactively Sonic Team's bible could say that the Genesis/MD storyline was on Sonic's world and Eggman crossed worlds to get there, and Sonic and friends traveled to the Human world in Sonic Adventure either through a portal or a dimensional shift that merged the two. I think Sonic Team's new explanation was made just to explain the shift between the 16-bit era and the Dreamcast era.

However, in reality (like, our reality where they're just games) I think SEGA and Sonic Team was never quite certain on an overarching explanation for where the games are set and why there are humans and talking animals.

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I categorize the games this way:

Genesis/Mega Drive Era: Sonic, Sonic CD, Sonic 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles

Dreamcast/Sixth Generation Hardware Era: Sonic Adventure, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog

Failed Reboot: Sonic 2006 (events of Sonic 1 through Shadow the Hedgehog serve as backstory, but series was starting fresh with new designs and direction)

Modern Era: Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Colors, Sonic Generations (which brought Sonic '06 into the Modern Era by referencing it), Sonic Lost World, Project Sonic 2017

I would also say that there was another failed era, which was Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episodes 1&2 which tried to expand on the Genesis/Mega Drive Era. I totally believe that had Sonic 4 been a success, we would have seen Episode 3 wrap Sonic 4 up and a Sonic 5, Sonic 6, etc. Not a reboot, but an expansion. Sonic Mania is now SEGA's second attempt to go back in time and expand on the Genesis/Mega Drive era, basically a Sonic 4 redo.

[Tad]

This is not meant to be rude, but that's a very Japanese way of handling a timeline where it splits or previous adventures are just ignored. It's something that seems to happen a lot in Japan and I think it works for certain games, but I do find it annoy in others like Zelda for example.

The split for Sonic between gens, does make sense though as they have changed quite a bit from gen to gen. Also, not to sound harsh, but like a lot of platformers, Sonic doesn't really have a deep rich law behind it anyway, so it's not really an issue. It just annoys me when games that try to start the foundations of one only to drop it in the next installment or go on a side quest.

Although Sonic 4 was a continuation of the Mega Drive era, it was different enough to warrant maybe calling it another timeline or something. If Sonic Mania is good, I'd probably but that in the Gen timeline personally as it shares a lot more in common by looks, sounds and gameplay than Sonic 4.

[Barry the Nomad]

The Genesis timeline is probably the strongest, most coherent, of all of them. And when you tack on SA1-Shadow, it only expands it (though some would argue if it improves it).

Sonic '06 was where things went south, and Unleashed seemed to establish that they were going game by game with only very loose connections. I did really like how the ending of Colors tied in with how Eggman discovered Time Eater, and how Generations sort of tied all the eras together. A shame Lost World was really disconnected from the rest, though I'm hoping Project 2017 goes back to the light continuity.

I know people should play Sonic games for the gameplay, but it doesn't hurt to have an interesting story. One thing that really sets Sonic apart from Mario is that the characters have personalities and interact with each other. It's nothing new, I mean look back at Sonic & Knuckles. No words were spoken, but we totally understood the character's relationships and attitudes.

[Tad]

I agree, it doesn't need to be amazing, but some story adds a lot to any game. I'd say SLW was a separate story away from Colours, Generations as it's again so different. Kind of like this:

Beginning: Sonic 1, CD, 2, 3, Mania(?).
00s: SA1, SA2, SHeroes.
Modern: Unleashed, Colours, Generations

The rest are side stories, spin offs and failed attempts (of which, only 3).

[Randroid]

I like how you guys categorize the games. I agree mostly.

The only difference would be I would categorize Sonic CD apart from the rest of the Gen/MD titles. Reason being, the in-world mechanics are different. In Gen/MD enemies are converted animals, where in CD they sprout flowers when broken.

I thinking Mania would probably fall into that series. They're named the same way (Sonic + Gimmick) and I think their artstyle and music match more closely than anything from Sonic 2 and beyond.

Either way, I'm hyped. I agree with Barry. Gen/MD was the strongest timeline conceptually IMO. I don't agree that SA1 - 06 Expanded it. It feel that it turned it into something else completely, for the worst. Still fun, but not the same impact conceptually. As soon as they placed Sonic in a world with humans beyond Robotnik, it just wasn't the same and didn't work for me.

[Tad]

Sure we've spoken about this before, but I think humans were always there. I mean, Robotnik is human isn't he?

[Randroid]

Sure we've spoken about this before, but I think humans were always there. I mean, Robotnik is human isn't he?

He's very stylized though to the point where he doesn't really look like any normal person.

Also, it's pretty telling that sole human you ever seen is the main and only villain, as the main focus of all the Gen/MD games is environmentalism. It's pretty clear that he doesn't belong in Sonic's world. It's as though he was dropped in and the whole point of the games is to neutralize his efforts.

Kind of brilliant really, and SA1 - 06 ruins all of that. The environmentalist message is completely gone by then. From SA1 on, you're stopping Robotnik from taking over the world, not stopping him from ruining the world environmentally.

[George]

Its funny that people are upset that its not Sonic Adventure 3. I think the best thing Sonic Team could do is get aspects that people liked from the past 3D games and polish them up in its own title. I think using a name like 'Adventure 3' is a lose/lose situation. For example: Adventure 1/2 are very different in terms of layout and tone. Like, Adventure was more light hearted compared to 2, plus it was more open designed. So either way it would make fans of one of those two games mad.

Project Sonic 2017 could have a open world like Adventure, but all levels based around Classic/Modern Sonic like Generations instead of side characters that weren't really that fun to play (see Sonic Adventure 2 where the best levels where Sonic/Shadow) and a grim dark story cuz ya know the fans love that stuff.

But hey, Sonic Mania looks great.

[FlareHabanero]

Trying to pad out the game by throwing in a bunch of weird gimmicks that don't work, failing to tell a narrative (especially since they're trying to be "edgy" again), dumping a lot of the effort into the graphics and sound, trying to pander to a fanbase that doesn't know what the hell it even wants. I know where the Sonic Team title is going before I even see gameplay.


Not even trying to be negative, at this point the problems with the Sonic games by Sonic Team are becoming a cliche. Not helping is that game isn't "Sonic Generations 2" despite the implications, so there isn't even a "safety net" of sorts.


At least with Sonic Mania the people involved clearly care about the franchise and it's showing, while with Sonic Team it just feels like the typical stubborn Japanese businessman mentality preventing progress.

[CrazyT]

Thanks! I really need to relisten with what we know now in mind. I'll try and get Taxman on for a show in the near future. Shouldn't be an issue due to our Retro connections.

That would be fantastic. Gotta say that I like like listening to you guys in general.

Anyway ive been thinking about this game a lot lately. Also about how great, passionate and taltented the sonic community is. Its absolutly fantastic to see them get the recognition like this.

Although taxman has so far only made 1:1 remakes so far, im looking forward to see how their own built game is going to be. The level design so far has looked absolutly promising, but what would be even greater is if they improved on how sonic games from sonicteam have usually been balanced.

You see as getting older ive been appreciatimg the thrill of challenge and being kept on my toes more and more. Its made sonic 1 become a lot more satisfactory for me through the years compared to the others for me personally.

What I would love to see with sonic mania for example is if the latter half of the game becomes a non cheap legitimate challenging game. Make it so that theres enough content for those who play sonic for the mindless fun, and enough content for those who love to feel some thrills. I really dislike seeing how a lot of fans dont appreciate challenge in sonic games, and usually consider it horrible design when sonic games ask more than mostly pressing right and jump. Sonic games should be able to have both and be liked for both imo. It should just be properly balanced and those cheap mother***kers should stfu..... Yeah I just had a moment there

[Team Andromeda]

Kind of brilliant really, and SA1 - 06 ruins all of that. The environmentalist message is completely gone by then. From SA1 on, you're stopping Robotnik from taking over the world, not stopping him from ruining the world environmentally.

Sonic was always meant be in the world with humans and also have a human girlfriend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2ve5_YD60






 

[crackdude]

As soon as they placed Sonic in a world with humans beyond Robotnik, it just wasn't the same and didn't work for me.

They didn't.. He was already there, you just didn't see the other humans.
Who do you think lives in the buildings seen in Starlight Zone? Animals?

From SA1 on, you're stopping Robotnik from taking over the world, not stopping him from ruining the world environmentally.

Directly from the Sonic 2 manual:
This time, Robotnik's planning a global disaster. He needs workers to create a doomsday machine that can take over the world. So he's trapping all the animals, turning them into robots, and forcing them to build his ultimate weapon, the Death Egg!

It's not environmentalism.

[Team Andromeda]

They didn't.. He was already there, you just didn't see the other humans.

Yep and lets all remember Sonic is  a Hedgehog and a Hedgehog is animal from earth, not a alien lifeform .

[Sharky]

Really indepth look at Sonic Mania by 'GameXplain' worth a watch.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSB_APVzwyY