Yakuza: OF THE END

[Sharky]

Thanks storm! Glad you're getting us this news from Japan!
Also, how is this game going down in Japan? do people like the idea?

Putting this up now... I'll put the Stars news as a second article later. spread it out, make it go further!

[CrazyT]

Those trailers are just amazing. I just recently got a PS3. I need to catch up from yakuza 3 . Ordered it allready. Oh and valkyria chronicles 1 as well.

[Sharky]

Those trailers are just amazing. I just recently got a PS3. I need to catch up from yakuza 3 . Ordered it allready. Oh and valkyria chronicles 1 as well.

Good man, both are great games. Although of the entire series I had least fun with Yakuza 3 it is still a very good game and packed with content.

Yakuza 4 is apparently the best of the lot so far, which comes out in Feb or March 2011.

[STORM!]

Yes! People are shocked but loving the idea. They are treating it as a "gaiden" story.

 Well, it feels like a true sequel to me. I'm loving it too.

 By the way, what happened with the global gaming world? Sounds like they all are celebrating something... since there are a lot of things involving zombies (on games and others media) at the same time. It's just weird -_-;

[Sharky]

Yes! People are shocked but loving the idea. They are treating it as a "gaiden" story.

 Well, it feels like a true sequel to me. I'm loving it too.

 By the way, what happened with the global gaming world? Sounds like they all are celebrating something... since there are a lot of things involving zombies (on games and others media) at the same time. It's just weird -_-;

Didn't you hear? The world is going to end in 2012 with a Zombie Apocolypse! =D

[MadeManG74]

That was awesome, I loved seeng the familiar faces in Gary's Boot Camp.

[ROJM]

It's actually satisfying for me to see that notion accepted when people so resisted it when I tried to awaken them to that reality some time ago.

While I'm not entirely sure what 'high concept' refers to I would like to make the distinction that it is not "high concept" in and of itself that people are reacting to but the combination of high concept and a watered down and diluted core gaming experience. This is the condition that afflicts most of contemporary gaming that current gamers have gradually been conditioned to accept having completely forgotten gaming used to be about great gameplay first and not great presentation.

I appreciate you recognize the western pandering now in those titles, but I agree with you that I don't see that in The End.

The End is a cheesy, cash-in, spin-off to have some artistic conflict about the derivative aspects of the game really is inappropriate and beyond its scope and ambition.  My only concern is that the gunplay is fun. I actually think they are getting the atmosphere right and that the "Capcom rip-off" is practically a nice old-school trademark.

You're right. . .if people were more focused on the gameplay that is what would be the concern.

I'd accept your point if it wasn't solely judged too harshly.
The difference of what you'd call western pandering in the 80s and 90s as compared to now was back then there wasn't a massive divide between gameplaying tastes in japan and in america. Most of the action games taking references of old movies and the such was mainly down to the fact that the things that were being referred to in japanese games or copied were international. You don't have to be japanese, american or russian to understand a concept of simulation driving or racing. Or shooting, or whatever. The symbols used in many sega arcade titles were known to gamers, even if it was a title specifcally for the japanese it wouldn't and didn't matter bar titles that were changed due to licensing issues.
The problem now is that the tastes have changed, the market is more diverse, the gaming crowd are totally different to the ones in the nineties and so on. Western console gameplaying now has been dominated by titles whose genres have originated from the PC which is different to the pick up and play type of style in many japanese games specifically Sega's. Half of Sega's problem since being a third partyis realising that things had changed . Pandering to the west isn't really the answer. Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.

People keep churning this as some undisputed fact that Sega will do well as a multi platform developer and making more western style titles but we have all seen that neither of this has worked outside key franchises. It hasn't worked overall. BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan. Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines and BD too.
Sega's main buisness, arcade gaming IE porting arcade titles is out of fashion seemingly with console gamers and sega themselves, which would have been unheard of back in their heyday and the golden age of gaming.

The conclusion has to be does sega work as a third party developer at all. Historically they haven't and it seems at the moment it hasn't so far apart that this incarnation has been more succesful than previous attempts. How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega? I'd ask this even if it was Nintendo,outside Mario or Zelda how many of their games would sell on non nintendo platforms? If the base isn't there for Sega consumer teams to rely on a good margin then maybe its time to effectily rebrand themselves much like they did at the initial years of the Genesis era and go after a different consumer if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.

[Team Andromeda]

Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.

Its not so pandering: Because a Japanese or American developer always have a Different mind set and values, even if you're making a game for a Set Market. In a sports game a American development may want to see a game won outright, to a European developer a Draw is a far outcome (that's being General) There are always deep cultural differences.

The trouble is for most Japanese developers is that....#
 The west is now the leaders for the Consoles sales, GPU's and the Middleware tech ; be that in the CPU or GPU's used in the console or in Terms of Middleware like Havok ECT (to be fair CRI middles is still bloody awesome) and that the Japanese market is continuing to shrink (a ageing population is not helping matters) These are factors no Japanese developer can overlook.  You can take the simple easy sage route and back the HH systems (which many are doing) but that Market is limited and has its own issues.

These days its pretty much a must (no matter if you're Western or Asian) that all your Big projects need to be Multi Platform. That is the only way in this generation to get the best sales, unlike the previous where there's always tented to be one console that is miles out in front in all Key territory (Yes I know the Wii is, but its games sales for 3rd parties is still relative poor) It's all about allowing as many pepole as possible to be able to play ones games, and sharing the developments cost on Middleware and Multiplatform  

BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan

True, though in over all sales the Games has sold better in the West (in terms of sheer numbers)

Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines

Its been hit by all sorts of problems, not help with the main producer walking out of both the game and leaving SEGA too and of coruse its a Licence and that means everything need to go through and be approved by FOX

How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega?

Not many I wouldn't say. Looking Back (and yes that is very easy) SEGA should have been completely muli-platform from the start of SEGA going Multi Platform

if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.

I think SEGA needs to really start to please its old fans, sort them out and then look to  please the rest latter  . So to send out a Big message SEGA needs to make a Sequel to one of its most  Respected/loved  IP's. Shenmue would be the obvious choice, but why not make a Sequel to SOA using the Canvas engine ?

 The Team is proven this gen, and so is the Tech . So why Not give the team the job of making SOA II for the PS3, 360 and ports to the PSP/Wii too. I'm so hoping PSO II will also please the faithful in similar ways

SEGA could start to take Yakuza Multi Platform (just try it once) and allow people with out an PS3 to play the game,  its would be nice if SEGA started to wake up to some easy money and ways of pleasing fans....  A Natal Samba De Amigo seems a non-brainier to me, and what about getting a team to start making a proper DC or Model 3 collection packs....

A Shooter Pack with the likes of LA Machines/Guns. HOTD 1& 2, Lost World Arcade, VC 2 & 3, Ocean Hunter, Racer pack with SEGA racer TV , SEGA Rally 1& II, Le Man 24 , Daytona USA 1 & II (ok the names will need to change)  or if you're going to do a DC Pack..Then at least Put Sonic Adv 1 & II, Both the Crazy Taxi games, both the SC 5 games  and all the SEGA Bass fishing games in that pack . Simple moves like that, could please so many, and not cost or take millions and massive teams to make

[CrazyT]

And so the war began  8-)

[Team Andromeda]

And so the war began  8-)

Its no war, its a decision; The point of a forum board

[MadeManG74]

And so the war began  8-)

Its no war, its a decision; The point of a forum board

I think you mean discussion, and it's cool so long as it doesn't turn into insults.  

Can I point out I'm dissapointed we haven't seen more melee combat in these trailers? I think Yakuza combat mixed with zombies has potential to be awesome. Like, literally punching heads off of shoulders and the like.

[ROJM]

Mainly because pandering to one market is never the answer. SOJ learned that with the MD while the real success was coming from the states and UK.

Its not so pandering: Because a Japanese or American developer always have a Different mind set and values, even if you're making a game for a Set Market. In a sports game a American development may want to see a game won outright, to a European developer a Draw is a far outcome (that's being General) There are always deep cultural differences.

That goes without saying, I'm talking about pandering to a particular market in spite of everyone else for the sake of it which Sega has been guilty of throughout their history on the console market. Be it with the Saturn, MD or even the MS. This has usally been the excecutive problem rather than a developer problem. Instead of treating the markets equally, one market is favoured than the other,and it usually comes crashing down at one point.

The trouble is for most Japanese developers is that....#
 The west is now the leaders for the Consoles sales, GPU's and the Middleware tech ; be that in the CPU or GPU's used in the console or in Terms of Middleware like Havok ECT (to be fair CRI middles is still bloody awesome) and that the Japanese market is continuing to shrink (a ageing population is not helping matters) These are factors no Japanese developer can overlook.  You can take the simple easy sage route and back the HH systems (which many are doing) but that Market is limited and has its own issues.

Agree, agree.

These days its pretty much a must (no matter if you're Western or Asian) that all your Big projects need to be Multi Platform. That is the only way in this generation to get the best sales, unlike the previous where there's always tented to be one console that is miles out in front in all Key territory (Yes I know the Wii is, but its games sales for 3rd parties is still relative poor) It's all about allowing as many pepole as possible to be able to play ones games, and sharing the developments cost on Middleware and Multiplatform  

But weve seen that work with other third parties but it hasn't really worked for Sega Japan. And really if you count nintendo most of their sales have overshadowed everything else on a number of exclusive titles including Sega most succesful title this generation being M+S. Middleware costs you may have a point on that. only real thing is to ultilise the assets they have maybe have the technical team from the ashes of SRS give them pointers in the western dev style and tools.

BAYONETTA that great savior did better in Japan then it did over here and that wasn't made by sega in team staff nor the aim for it to do better in japan

True, though in over all sales the Games has sold better in the West (in terms of sheer numbers)

I'm talking first term sales. BAYONETTA over here shifted more units after a price cut, in Japan it didn't have that problem and had a better debut. So it depends who made the most money and that usually goes in how many full price copies shifted in its first two weeks and overall period(usually three months) before a title naturally dies off.

Hell there's already some kind of logistics problem between Sega's divisions over Colonial Marines

Its been hit by all sorts of problems, not help with the main producer walking out of both the game and leaving SEGA too and of coruse its a Licence and that means everything need to go through and be approved by FOX

How much of the titles released since 2001 onwards would have done better if it was on an exclusive system from Sega?

Not many I wouldn't say. Looking Back (and yes that is very easy) SEGA should have been completely muli-platform from the start of SEGA going Multi Platform

And that's the problem. I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one. Most of your fave games in this era from Sega has been only on one platform. Was it just because they happen to be Ips you liked, or they happen to just be good games or that they were really what was present of what Sega stood for good development use, great gameplay, ideas and so forth. Sega to me doesn't and never has worked as a MP developer. I'd like to see what they can actually do on the 360 properly without diluting the title on two other platforms,That's what i'm used to as a sega consumer.

 That's why it was easy to point out their superiority when you could point out a title and see what they did with that system in order to get the game to do what it did. If anything needs to be MP are the ports which was made easy of course by some of the shared architecture of the boards and the systems in the old days and to a smaller degree today. Unleash the beast of the arcade titles on all systems because essentially it wouldn't matter. But with consumer titles they need to really adopt more of the single stat idea or fail that do what they did in the old days by giving you the same title on different systems but having the games be a variant of each other rather than being a straight port. An idea that seemed to be on the cards when it was talked about doing/releasing JSR2 for the DC and JSRF for xbox but both being completly different.

if reminding people why they were considered the best in town with their glorious past and present titles from arcade or new titles from the consumer teams don't succeed next fiscal year.

I think SEGA needs to really start to please its old fans, sort them out and then look to  please the rest latter  . So to send out a Big message SEGA needs to make a Sequel to one of its most  Respected/loved  IP's. Shenmue would be the obvious choice, but why not make a Sequel to SOA using the Canvas engine ?

 The Team is proven this gen, and so is the Tech . So why Not give the team the job of making SOA II for the PS3, 360 and ports to the PSP/Wii too. I'm so hoping PSO II will also please the faithful in similar ways

SEGA could start to take Yakuza Multi Platform (just try it once) and allow people with out an PS3 to play the game,  its would be nice if SEGA started to wake up to some easy money and ways of pleasing fans....  A Natal Samba De Amigo seems a non-brainier to me, and what about getting a team to start making a proper DC or Model 3 collection packs....

A Shooter Pack with the likes of LA Machines/Guns. HOTD 1& 2, Lost World Arcade, VC 2 & 3, Ocean Hunter, Racer pack with SEGA racer TV , SEGA Rally 1& II, Le Man 24 , Daytona USA 1 & II (ok the names will need to change)  or if you're going to do a DC Pack..Then at least Put Sonic Adv 1 & II, Both the Crazy Taxi games, both the SC 5 games  and all the SEGA Bass fishing games in that pack . Simple moves like that, could please so many, and not cost or take millions and massive teams to make

Youre talking to the converted here, i don't disagree with that. Apart from the MP bit.

You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come. If you look at their heyday after the MS era the main reason MD did very well was down to Sonic. But many consumers stayed because of Sega. With an exclusive system the customer although buying the system for whatever popular game(If they happen not to be a fan of the company making it) would be more inclined to check the other software from the company responsible for their favourite game.

That's why games like ALPHA PROTOCOL would have probably fared much better if it was released on a sega system than it did as it was. Among other reasons its easy to sell to the general gamer whose purchased your system to sell another title as we have seen countless times with the Wii's ridiculous non mario titles. But nowadays Sonic is still doing his mandate(despite Sega's mistakes) to pull in the punters and pull in  new customers. The problem is that's where it stops. The vast majority of those sonic gamers unlike the ones who brought the various sega systems to play sonic in the past aren't or don't feel the need to buy sega products outside of that franchise so the sega userbase isn't growing like it did with in the old days. Really down to the fact that its on other systems where there is more competition and doesn't hold the attention of the userbase because the 360 and wii and PS3 are from other companies.

Pandering to the old guard although pleasing won't help sega in the long run. I'm in my late thirties now,You i think are around early thirties, Sharky must be in his early to mid twenties and everyone here are in their early to mid twenties as well as a few 40 to mid thirty year olds. I'm still buying games but not in the same way I did back in my teen years. And really that's the case  if it isn't yet with many sega fans, things get in the way, responsibilites work and other stuff. There isn't a new generation thats replacing the exisiting one in significant numbers and if there are their idea of sega will still be sonic but also Bakugan and Dinosaur king and other kiddie related stuff(at least in japan)

If the Sega dna style titles work like that future project of yours now known as BD and a few others in bringing in newer fans that will stick with Sega, i'll be a happy bunny but the reality seems that for whatever reason Sega just can't get a good maximum out of specific tactics for their company. Other than sonic,sega isn't attracting new consumers. The Platinum deal which was a fanboys wet dream in reality can be considered kinda mixed. successful but expectation was higher than the outcome. But other than that i don't think many people who brought that game that weren't followers with sega were inclined to check out other sega games either.

I think its time for Sega japan to stop pandering to the west. Give Sega west a lot more autonomy(like they did in the genesis era) port arcade games again and really start making consumer games with an international appeal than just a title perceived to be more eastern like YAKUZA or western like BD and just get the balance right.
Time will tell well next year we shall see if the recent tactic will work out.

[Team Andromeda]

That goes without saying, I'm talking about pandering to a particular market in spite of everyone else for the sake of it which Sega has been guilty of throughout their history on the console market. Be it with the Saturn, MD or even the MS. This has usally been the excecutive problem rather than a developer problem. Instead of treating the markets equally, one market is favoured than the other,and it usually comes crashing down at one point.

Yes but no developer can over look the USA Market: its just so massive, and as been for many years a growing Market (or at least no shrinking as much as Japan.

But weve seen that work with other third parties but it hasn't really worked for Sega Japan.

Trouble is SEGA Japan just tended to look at much  the Japanese Market,some of its games were very niche, and SEGA really hasn't been Multi Platform (games have still been exclusive to 1 platform) also SEGA still has poor image and dire PR.  Every BIG Major games (Yakuza 3, Val) and every Sonic Game should have been multi Platform, from the very start.

SEGA shots its self in the foot sometimes....SEGA makes the best Sonic game in years, and its only out on the Wii , where's  the 360 and PS3 versions; even if they sold poor, I bet they would have totalled over the 5,000,0000 or Million Mark.

I'm talking first term sales. BAYONETTA over here shifted more units after a price cut

I know that why I said true. But Bay did sell in decent enough numbers in the USA/Europe.

I know our difference in opinion on this matter and i won't go into sales on this but Sega's strengh has always been as a single platform developer rather than a MP one.

I know, but just backing one Platform this Generation isn't going to work . Every Major 3rd Party is now more or less completely multi-platform and SEGA needs to be just the same, if its is going to take on and beat the likes of EA, Ubisoft or 2k .  I don't like it any more more than the next person, but that is just the way then Generation has gone, and I dare say it will be the same next Gen

SEGA has just got to start to let people be able to play all its games, be you a 360, PS3 or Wii Owner.  Just look at Sharky; he's  a SEGA nut and one of its best and most loyal fans... but due to Sharky only owning a 360, he's missed/missing  out on Yakuza III, or Val on the PS3 .  SEGA needs to stop hurting and dividing its own fans (you know full well there's a small section of fans that will never buy SONY) Start allowing people to play your BIG games. No matter the system you own....Its better for us, its great PR and its better for SEGA inthe end imo

You're forgetting one important thing. Were a dying breed. The sega fans of yesteryear won't be the same type of segafan in years to come.

I know but the good will and the word of mouth a Skies II(using the Canvas engine) could generate.. would be  just amazing.

One Screen shot of the Skies Characters& World in Canvas, would have many people on various forums cheering and praising SEGA for all the right reasons, it would kill the comments; that the Old SEGA is dead too, get everyone here hyping and talking the game up, and give all us SEGA fans a reason to shout from the roof tops.

The engine and Team is proven too, the time is right is do such a move, and Skies is not a game that be pandering to the West at all. Also having a team to do various Model 3 , 2 packs again is very easy, and not pandering, but will generate serious good will towards SEGA

[Sharky]

Skies of Arcadia 2, Canvas Engine... Yes, Yes Please.

[Barry the Nomad]

TA and ROJM need to do a podcast together. It would be awesome! Like The O'Reilly Factor X10.