Shining Series

[Aki-at]

As for the Shining Force situation, thats fine and dandy that they sell so many copies, but since they have the Canvas engine already made. Which would be perfect for a new Shining Force game... It wouldnt hurt to throw us a bone as well as making the flamboyant crap.

They did, that was Shining Force Feather, yeah the characters still looked generic, but otherwise, it was a SRPG, had centuers, machines and a few other races too;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6Gugfl2_EQ

However, as I said, the game sold so poorly that Flightplan effectively went bankrupt. Yeah SEGA is coughing up the cash at the end of the day, but it tells you how bad the game did that it causes the developer to go bankrupt.

Right now, the games are cheap, SEGA make money off of the models they make off of characters and they sell. The remake on the GBA, the return of the original artists to work on Shining Soul and a game that has SRPG have all resulted in financial losses for SEGA.

Unfortunate, but what you going to do?

[Skateboard]

Thanks again to you all.

@Team Andromeda: I see. So there are a few more details in the magazine. I hope I can read it for myself someday. I didn’t know that. I thought someone at SFC mentioned only minor/non-essential things were missing (like pictures with description and such…). However, I could imagine as Camelot/SonicSP never was part of SEGA and they also had produced games for other systems at this point (hence they already had turned away a bit) that SEGA simply had no plans for collaborating with Camelot at the DC’s start. The poor sales of the Shining series on the Saturn would go well together with this.

@Sega Uranus: Thanks for the hint.

@CrazyTails: Thanks, you really want me to give it another chance. The thing is, I have watched my younger brother playing it a few times back then and I just didn’t like it as much as I had wished. It’s not that it seems to be produced with kids / teens in mind alone. BTW the childish German translation adds a lot to this. I also get easily annoyed by random battle encounters with the typical RPG battle system where you end up “disabling your mind” because it’s so repetitive. Nevertheless, I believe the game has still enough to offer to make it worth it.

@Aki-at: I took a closer look at the figures and noticed a few things. I just hope I read your file right:

1. A game like SF3 Scenario I drops out of the charts after 2 weeks. But just because it is no longer under the top 30 doesn’t mean it stopped selling, right? Which would mean the figures are not accurate and only represent the sales as long as a game was selling (very) well and was therefore still in the charts? I think I have seen weeks where place 30 was still 10K+.

2. Shining Wisdom is a strange example. (Release in file: 11.8.1995 / at SFC: 21.07.1995??)
The initial weeks are missing and the game seems like an unusual looooong seller in the series. If I consider Shining Force 3 Scenario I could have sales like this in the months after it droped out of the charts it would make its figures a lot higher.

These are the weekly figures of SW covered in the file:
25.09.95 - 01.10.95: 13.184
02.10.95 - 08.10.95: 4.716
09.10.95 - 15.10.95: 9.144
08.01.96 - 14.01.96: 8.523
15.01.96 - 21.01.96: 5.814

These particular sales also “behave” strange (down and up). Is this normal?
So much for the sales figures for now.

It’s nice to see Shining Hearts doing well. According to the Media Create site it sold “106,733” in the first week. You might be right. As long as people don’t buy SRPGs we will barely see any.

@Sharky: I would like to know how you imagine a Shining Force with the BLITZ engine, because I’m not so sure about that. I think it would have to be heavily altered, unless you give nearly everyone ranged weapons and introduce “capture the flag” to SF. If the engine has to be heavily altered you might even end up with an engine closer to SF3 than VC.

@Truesonic: Instead of whining we might join the SOS Campaign at SFC and write a letter to Camelot. At least we tried. Effort = minimal.

[CrazyT]

You should give it a try if you can. Amidst the more kiddy nature lies a well polished game made with a lot of care, camelot style. About the frequent battle thing. It's hard to explain but it's as if  the game is programmed in a way that they know when it's anoying and when it's not. For instance in puzzle sections, there are few to no battles at all. The battles overall don't occur that much, and the best thing is  that battles don't take  that long.

As you may know, the 2d golden suns on the GBA HIGHLY ressemble the style of shining force 3, minus the 3d environments.

Battles SF3
Battles GS

evironment sprites SF3
Envronment sprites GS

I might be stating the obvious here since you might be a much bigger "shining" fan than me , i'm just trying to say that if golden sun was called, shining sun for instance it may have caught your attention a lot more.

[STORM!]

I would love to see Camelot working again with Sega, but at this moment, I believe there are no chances to see this happening.

 In Japan, at the most popular online thread about Sega, people are "fighting" about the Shining series. It's the hottest theme since last years about "Sega". It's hottest than Bayonetta or everything else.

 But you know, Sega users and old Sega users are minority in Japan.

 I am one of the people who are defending the classic style of the series, but we lose the battle completely when Sega has shipped 160/180k copies of Shining Hearts in the Japanese market.

 We know that Sega has shipped 300k copies of Shining Force(MD) in Japan in the past, and have sold -/+ 150k copies of Shining Wisdom(SS) here, but they have never sold that ammount since then. This is the first time the series sell more than 150k in 15 years.

 If you count all the rereleases, collections, convertions... yes! Shining Force is the most successful title in the series worldwide without doubt! However(the series alone), it's not a huge success even in Europe or USA (I believe that Sega has never put big efforts to make this series huge though...).

 I don't believe Camelot is coming back simply because they have made one of the worst game of 2010 in Japan. The last Golden Sun is hated everywhere here, people are complaining about everything on the title.

 But... who knows. Shining Hearts producer has said last week (on his Twitter account) that "there could be something" this year to commemorate Shining series anniversary. However, he or Sega has not confirmed nothing about it.
 
 And I'm playing Shining Hearts without pause. It's a fun game and the story this time is a bit better than Tears and Wind. People who has finished the game can not explain what's the truth behind all the characters, the island, plot, etc... but there are some facts that made us believe everyone there are already... dead!

[Wilhelm]

I remember this site/platform called BYOND.
Build. Your. Own. Net. Dream

Fairly simple game engine design..thing..site... I Can't explain it
Anyways this guy made a Online Turnbased-RPG in tribute to the original Shining series..
Did a sweet job.. Brought back memories.
And I remember him constantly hating on Sega for using the Shining name with the new games. Ahh yes..
My point is:

IF you dont like the new ones, whine about it and fix it yourself: FAN GAME!~

[Skateboard]

@Storm!
Thanks for the nice info. I'm quite surprised about Shining Wisdom’s and Shining Force’s sales. Could you please post the source? I really would like to carry reliable figures together.

@Wilhelm
There are indeed fan games in the making. Some of them are old and abandoned or never got far, but there are also promising ones, like the Shining Force II Community Project or Bludragn’s Shining Force PC Engine.

[Kaihaku]

2. I’m even more surprised about the statement: “...SEGA have asked Camelot a few times to develop a new Shining game for them, alas to no success”, as it is contrary to what I had thought and I think it is widely believed by the Shining fans that SEGA are the ones hindering a new Camelot title, while Camelot still would like to make them. For my part I don’t know what to think... Creditable sources on this topic are rare or non existence…

Funny, that's one of the reasons I registered here... I'm glad you beat me to it, now I can read the answers without having to ask the questions.

[STORM!]

　Sorry. There are no reliable sources for the sales of Mega-Drive games in Japan, however it is very known that on that time, the sales of a game released by the companies = almost the half what they told. If Sega said Shining Force sold 300k only in Japan, you can figure that the true sold number was 150k.


 Now a small information about the Shining series:

- Shining Soul, Tears, Wind, Road... are placed in the same world of the original series, but on another continent;

- Shining Wind has introduced to the series the "real world" (our world);

- Shining Hearts is believed to take place in the Spiritual World, between the fantasy world (the whole Shining series world) and the real world (USA, Japan, Brazil, Africa, etc...).

 Shining Force NEO, EXA, Feather, Cross Raid, are placed on a completely new world each one.

[ROJM]

ctually the truth be told, i'm getting fed up of Camelot's whining. Yes Sega treated them badly towards the end of the Saturn, but they're forgetting that Sega did them a big favour in not only getting started but esentially letting them do whatever they wanted with the series. Hardly any companies from that period and today would even allow SHINING to go the way it became in the nineties.

But in their defence, this isn't the only series from a second party to have fallen prey to other producers who want to take the series in a new direction and make a quick buck in the process. If the whole debacle with SAKURA TAISEN is to believed anyway. Why would Camelot want to be a part of something like that? Regardless if camelot want to do another title, and Sega obviously has gone out of their way not thrash their heritage(SS not included) then kiss and make up because the only ones suffering are the fans.

[STORM!]

There are bad things happening with the Shining series right now.

 Rumors: Sawada is now the leader of the series after the (sales) success of Shining Hearts.

 He is prepairing a "celebration" for the Shining series 20th Anniversary. Things he would do on March, 29:

- erase all the pages about the original series at the Shining World Portal Site, along with a renewal of the page;

- cut Camelot from Shining forever;

- cut Shining Force SOS Campaign;

- cut the rest of the Japanese fans of the original series.

 The rumors also says that Sawada would allow Camelot to celebrate the 20th of the Shining series if they want it. Same for Climax...

 Sawada Tsuyoshi is laughing about the futile and smallest number of fans of the original series around the world, showing the number of people who is following that campaign on twitter to save the series. Someone asked about the original series games on the Virtual Console, he said he will not take it off, because its just like people "visiting the museum"...

 Sawada said that the only way to people get information regarding the original series, is visiting Camelot's homepage...

 Jesus Christ! This is so disturbing for me (0.0;) I love the original series, more than the one created by Sawada. It's just annoying and sad that Sega has finally allowed him to do whatever he wants to the series.

 I have not joined that Shining Force SOS campaign, but I'm really dissapointed with the fans of the series around the world. I know that Sega has contributed with the decline of the series around the world by not releasing all the titles out of Japan, though.

 I have played all, simply ALL the titles of the "new" series, and yes, Sawada, differently from Shimosato, was trying to keep a link with the original series, but he was also putting a lot of erotic things from those romance simulation adventure games on it. I dislike that, and the story and arguments of his games are horrible. Camelot was not that good too, but was better than Sawada's ones.

 I hope Sawada goes to hell soon, like Miyoshi and the producer of that "Shooting Project". ;p

[STORM!]

　Looks like there are more coming up soon:

商標2010-092343 シャイニング・ハーツFANフェスタ
商標2010-091147 シャイニング・フォース フォーエバー/Shining Force ４ever
商標2010-065129 シャイニング学園　～プリンセス・ラブ～
商標2010-453766 シャイニング・ウィンド オンライン

1- Shining Hearts FAN Festa
2- Shining Force 4ever
3- Shining Gakuen ~Princess Love~
4- Shining Wind ONLINE

 The last one, [SHINING WIND ONLINE] was previously registered in China.

[ROJM]

So a jumped up PC game, a anniversary title that doesn't sound promising, a another shining game focusing on a shy teenage female and a MMO player.

Sawada's bastardization of this series knows no bounds.

[STORM!]

Oh, thanks ROJM! I felt I was the only one in the world hating what Sawada was doing to the series  :cry:

 I think now is too late to stop him. I think I have to accept that the Shining series is not popular anymore anywhere  :cry:  

 People only cares about Sonic, Sonic, Sonic... maybe I should start hating Sonic too  :mrgreen:

 And look, there is more: rumors says that Sega is not satisfied with the sales of Valkyria 3 and there are no plans for a sequel anymore. The series would end on the third installment. Sega CS#3 is the team behind all Sega recent RPGs and Platinum Games ... games. Sega has already sent most of the team from Valkyria to works with Sawada on the next Shining titles.

 Seriously! Sawada is a FREAK! And now he is in charge and leading completely the series and got a high status inside SEGA CS#3.

 Game Over for Camelot and Game Over for me. I've got tired fighting at the threads on 2ch...

[ROJM]

Oh, thanks ROJM! I felt I was the only one in the world hating what Sawada was doing to the series  :cry:

 I think now is too late to stop him. I think I have to accept that the Shining series is not popular anymore anywhere  :cry:  

 People only cares about Sonic, Sonic, Sonic... maybe I should start hating Sonic too  :mrgreen:

 And look, there is more: rumors says that Sega is not satisfied with the sales of Valkyria 3 and there are no plans for a sequel anymore. The series would end on the third installment. Sega CS#3 is the team behind all Sega recent RPGs and Platinum Games ... games. Sega has already sent most of the team from Valkyria to works with Sawada on the next Shining titles.

 Seriously! Sawada is a FREAK! And now he is in charge and leading completely the series and got a high status inside SEGA CS#3.

 Game Over for Camelot and Game Over for me. I've got tired fighting at the threads on 2ch...

I've been against him since the very start he got attached to the series. The danger is now if he ends up being in charge of Sega's fledging RPG department, it truly is game over. RED and Ohji Hiroi ended up leaving Sega after similar events and they've yet to produce a decent ST game since then.

[STORM!]

　He is not yet the leader of CS#3. He has to respond to Shimosato. For a weird reason, Shimosato is now the chief/boss at Sega CS#3.

 Shimosato controls the producers: Sawada, Rieko Kodama, Sakai, Virtual-On producer, and leads the projects from Platinum Games, Hatsune Miku games, K-On games, etc...

 In terms of sales, Sega CS#3 is one of the most successful divisions for Sega in Japan.

 And again, for some weird reason, Rieko Kodama has not rised inside Sega... like most of the fans wanted.

 Seems that the next Shining title would be SHINING GAKUEN, placed in the real world... o.o;;

 Last, Sega itself wants Maxima to be the next super heroine of the company.