SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Trippled on October 26, 2015, 10:09:16 am
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http://www.marketingweek.com/2015/10/12/sega-europes-marketing-director-on-the-transition-from-sonic-to-smartphones/?nocache=true&adfesuccess=1&ad_562e3db5868f3=562e3db586997 (http://www.marketingweek.com/2015/10/12/sega-europes-marketing-director-on-the-transition-from-sonic-to-smartphones/?nocache=true&adfesuccess=1&ad_562e3db5868f3=562e3db586997)
Now my biggest challenge as marketing director is to make sure people are aware that Sega isn’t just this heritage brand that made all the Sonic games but we’re making cutting edge adult narratives such as Alien Isolation too. Not a lot of people realise we make Football Manager either – that has to change.”
“We’ve had some great successes on mobile – our Sonic Dash game has over 100 million downloads – but mobile is an overcrowded market and being truly innovative in that space isn’t easy,” he adds. “The strategy at Sega is to focus on producing great content first and then decide which platform it works best on afterwards.”
Admitting that Sega has not done a “great job over the last four years” in communicating its brand values and “Yes, we want to innovate and back smarthphones and virtual reality but our key purpose is to go back to what the brand used to stand for and I think the buzz around Shenmue 3 shows that people love our legacy,” adds Rooke, who says Sega is exploring ways to re-release the original two Shenmue titles.
“Sega was an innovator, the Dreamcast was offering online gaming as early as 1998. But perhaps back then we were pushing boundaries a little too soon. Nowadays we know what we’re good at and the strategy is to be more gradual. Over the next few years, we want to use engaging content and marketing to remind the public why they fell in love with Sega in the first place.”
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http://www.marketingweek.com/2015/10/12/sega-europes-marketing-director-on-the-transition-from-sonic-to-smartphones/?nocache=true&adfesuccess=1&ad_562e3db5868f3=562e3db586997 (http://www.marketingweek.com/2015/10/12/sega-europes-marketing-director-on-the-transition-from-sonic-to-smartphones/?nocache=true&adfesuccess=1&ad_562e3db5868f3=562e3db586997)
“Now my biggest challenge as marketing director is to make sure people are aware that Sega isn’t just this heritage brand that made all the Sonic games but we’re making cutting edge adult narratives such as Alien Isolation too. Not a lot of people realise we make Football Manager either – that has to change.”
“We’ve had some great successes on mobile – our Sonic Dash game has over 100 million downloads – but mobile is an overcrowded market and being truly innovative in that space isn’t easy,” he adds. “The strategy at Sega is to focus on producing great content first and then decide which platform it works best on afterwards.”
Admitting that Sega has not done a “great job over the last four years” in communicating its brand values and engagement has subsequently “died down”, Rooke says Sega is interested in refreshing its heritage.
“Yes, we want to innovate and back smarthphones and virtual reality but our key purpose is to go back to what the brand used to stand for and I think the buzz around Shenmue 3 shows that people love our legacy,” adds Rooke, who says Sega is exploring ways to re-release the original two Shenmue titles.
“Sega was an innovator, the Dreamcast was offering online gaming as early as 1998. But perhaps back then we were pushing boundaries a little too soon. Nowadays we know what we’re good at and the strategy is to be more gradual. Over the next few years, we want to use engaging content and marketing to remind the public why they fell in love with Sega in the first place.”
I just gotta put this Youtube video on here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzYULyIdq8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdzYULyIdq8)
SEGA is going back to its roots. Its reminding people who they are and where they came from and letting the older,veteran gamers like me who remember their glory days know that they have NOT forgotten where they came from.
This is why SEGA is expanding its Arcade business and why SEGA is moving more and more towards PC and Mobile development.
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Hideki Okamura is an important Sega executive as he was marketing director for the Saturn and Dreamcast in Japan, and as we know that was pretty memorable.
I feel that he should know effective Sega marketing the most...(aside from good old Kalinske of course)
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I love to see SEGA talk big game like this, they're saying all the right words... I'm just worried that, it's all words.
Hideki Okamura is an important Sega executive as he was marketing director for the Saturn and Dreamcast in Japan, and as we know that was pretty memorable.
I feel that he should know effective Sega marketing the most...(aside from good old Kalinske of course)
What has this got to do with him?
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Funny how this news ties up nicely to my opinion on the WIPO thread. Probably just coincidental, funny funny none the less.
"Perhaps back then we were pushing boundaries a little too soon. Nowadays we know what we’re good at and the strategy is to be more gradual."
This reeks of some fantasy idea of bringing back Sega's online services.
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Sega is exploring ways to re-release the original two Shenmue titles.
That is all I needed to read from that.
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Funny how this news ties up nicely to my opinion on the WIPO thread. Probably just coincidental, funny funny none the less.
"Perhaps back then we were pushing boundaries a little too soon. Nowadays we know what we’re good at and the strategy is to be more gradual."
This reeks of some fantasy idea of bringing back Sega's online services.
Sega Net was reincarnated as Sega ALL.Net in 2005. They did file JTO Trademarks for online service brands like "Sega Online" and "Sega Gateway" in 2012.
Using any of those brands for use worldwide would be neat.(SEGA having Steam service compatibility would be even cooler).
I love to see SEGA talk big game like this, they're saying all the right words... I'm just worried that, it's all words.What has this got to do with him?[/quote]
Okamura is the Japanese equivalent to Tom Kalinske. Crackdude is saying Okamura has similar marketing talent to Kalinske's.
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“Yes, we want to innovate and back smarthphones and virtual reality but our key purpose is to go back to what the brand used to stand for and I think the buzz around Shenmue 3 shows that people love our legacy,” adds Rooke, who says Sega is exploring ways to re-release the original two Shenmue titles.
So now after ignoring Shenmue fans for over a decade, forbidding their staff from speaking about the series and hardly acknowledging its existence, Sega's of course suddenly eager to cash in on it now that they see that someone else's game (Shenmue 3) has gotten so much attention.
Hate to let my hardcore Shenmue fan roots show, but am I the only one who has a problem with this? (Sigh.)
I have a problem with that in the same way that I had a problem with Sega cancelling Bayonetta 2 but then having no issues whoring the character out in a Pachinko machine after its release.
Still just feels a little gross to me. Am I glad to know that new versions of Shenmue and Shenmue II are probably coming? Most definitely. I just hate knowing that it's all about the money, not the fans.
That said, regarding these quotes, good to hear. It's nice to see that Sega's become internally aware of how much they've faded from gamers' consciousness over these past few years. Like Sharky said, it's hard to be sure right now whether they're genuine or not. I guess time will tell.
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So now after ignoring Shenmue fans for over a decade, forbidding their staff from speaking about the series and hardly acknowledging its existence, Sega's of course suddenly eager to cash in now that they see that someone else's game (Shenmue 3) has gotten so much attention.
I have a problem with that in the same way that I had a problem with Sega refusing to publish Bayonetta 2 but then having no issues whoring the character out in a Pachinko machine.
Still just feels a little gross to me. Am I glad to know that HD versions of Shenmue and Shenmue II are coming? Most definitely. I just hate knowing that it's all about the money, not the fans.
That said, regarding these quotes, good to hear, but like Sharky said, it's hard to be sure whether they're genuine or not. I guess time will tell.
Why do "fans" think they are justified into chastising Sega for not releasing Triple A titles like Shenmue when it was virtually ignored back when it came out?
Why do you think its justifiable to berate SEGA for not publishing Bayonetta 2 when it sold even worse on Wii U then it did on PS3/360?
And why should SEGA, "NOT" care about making money? Game companies are ALL about making money.
I just don't understand the "entitlement" attitude of gamers now in days. Did they ever stop and think that maybe they're the one's who are wrong and are demanding too much?
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Why do "fans" think they are justified into chastising Sega for not releasing Triple A titles like Shenmue when it was virtually ignored back when it came out?
A new IP selling 1.2 million copies on a system with a 10 million userbase is not it "being virtually ignored." It was the 4th best-selling game on the Dreamcast.
The Shenmue fanbase has been incredibly vocal over the years about a 3rd installment and/or digital re-releases of the first two. They were the ones who were virtually ignored until Suzuki took things into his own hands and got the game made elsewhere.
Why do you think its justifiable to berate SEGA for not publishing Bayonetta 2 when it sold even worse on Wii U then it did on PS3/360?
Well you're comparing the sales of a Wii U exclusive game with the sales of its predecessor on the PS3/360. It's a very different thing.
Had Sega published Bayonetta 2 I'm almost positive that it would not have been exclusively on the Wii U. Regardless, it's another series which has sold over 1 million copies, was very prolific, and which had a definite fanbase, whose future prospects were ignored by the company until another publisher stepped in.
For the record it wasn't even that Sega "refused to publish it." Evidently they did agree to publish it, but they cancelled it mid-development. That's what happened.
And why should SEGA, "NOT" care about making money? Game companies are ALL about making money.
I just don't understand the "entitlement" attitude of gamers now in days. Did they ever stop and think that maybe they're the one's who are wrong and are demanding too much?
All publishers care about money, of course. But there has to be a balance between caring just about the money vs caring about the fans who give them the money.
You can't mistreat the fans and continue to expect them to give you money. Other Japanese publishers somehow manage to keep the fanbase happy while at the same time being profitable. Sega, somewhere along the line, lost their way. On both counts.
Articles like this one are hopefully signs that Sega's finding their way back. But I'm still hesitant to get my hopes up.
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A new IP selling 1.2 million copies on a system with a 10 million userbase is not it "being virtually ignored." It was the 4th best-selling game on the Dreamcast.
The Shenmue fanbase has been incredibly vocal over the years about a 3rd installment and/or digital re-releases of the first two. They were the ones who were virtually ignored until Suzuki took things into his own hands and got the game made elsewhere.
Well you're comparing the sales of a Wii U game with the sales of its predecessor on the PS3/360. It's a very different thing.
Had Sega published Bayonetta 2 I'm almost positive that it would not have been exclusively on the Wii U. Regardless, another series which has sold 1 million copies whose future prospects were ignored by the company until another publisher stepped in.
For the record it wasn't even that Sega "refused to publish it." Evidently they did agree to publish it, but they cancelled it mid-development. That's what happened.
All publishers care about money, of course. But there has to be a balance between caring just about the money vs caring about the fans who give them the money.
You can't mistreat the fans and continue to expect them to give you money. Other Japanese publishers somehow manage to keep the fanbase happy while at the same time being profitable. Sega, somewhere along the line, lost their way.
Shenmue had a $70 million dollar budget and had been in development since before the Saturn. 1.2 million is a very dissapointing number for a game with that high of a budget. In order to recoup that, it would have had to sell GTA 3 levels and it didn't.
Sega didn't publish Bayonetta 2 because the first game didn't sell well. Bayonetta 2 was a Wii U exclusive because Platinum Games asked Nintendo's investors to fund it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with SEGA the IP holder.
And, I'm frankly tired of the blame game. The gamers should blame themselves for setting the bar so high with such extreme expectations. Triple A games are no walk in the park and cost a fortune to make. Why don't ask these "fans" WHY aren't they buying the games even if they're good. Why didn't "Alpha Protocol" sell? What about "Sonic Generations" why did people buy Modern Warfare instead? Why did Valkyria Chronicles underpeform on PS3 way back in 2008, yet the Steam port last year become a success?
And the spin regarding Japanese publishers is conjecture at best. Square Enix posted a loss, and Capcom isn't doing too well either.
It doesn't really matter though regarding SEGA. They aren't some tiny publisher, and they'll soon show the world what type of brand they REALLY are and where they came from. SEGA is going in the right direction, PC gamers seem to respect them and seem to be the ones who CARE about them and their games but the so called "fans" your referring don't. They are ungrateful,disrespectful, little misers who act like they know everything. Why don't they try to run a corporation? And develop a Triple A game with investors? And then they can see what its like walking in SEGA's or other game companies' shoes?
Frankly, I'm glad SEGA is no longer listening to the so called "fans". They have proven that they don't care about Sega and want them to remain stuck as a publisher forever and ever and never succeed at anything else.
The issue is, Shenmue's budget was so high that even breaking a million was not enough to make it a financial success for SEGA.
Exactly. Titles have to sell a certain amount to recoup their budgets. Shenmue had started development in late 1993 when the Saturn was nearing its final stages of development. By 1999 and 2000, it had been under development for over 5 years and had been moved to another console, and because of the marketing, the localization, Research and Development and because it didn't become Dreamcast's killer app even in Japan, it had an extremely large budget of $70 million, which in 1999 for a game was astronomical.
Shenmue III itself is only 1/3 of that.($6.5 million is like a dime to that) So in actuality, you'll only be getting a small experience of the original game.
Like I said, Shenmue needed to sell GTA3 levels and sell Dreamcasts to be considered a success.
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A new IP selling 1.2 million copies on a system with a 10 million userbase is not it "being virtually ignored." It was the 4th best-selling game on the Dreamcast.
The Shenmue fanbase has been incredibly vocal over the years about a 3rd installment and/or digital re-releases of the first two. They were the ones who were virtually ignored until Suzuki took things into his own hands and got the game made elsewhere.
The issue is, Shenmue's budget was so high that even breaking a million was not enough to make it a financial success for SEGA.
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Ben, Sega is under new leadership. That's why the focus is on pleasing the fans right now with great games
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Shenmue had a $70 million dollar budget and had been in development since before the Saturn. 1.2 million is a very dissapointing number for a game with that high of a budget. In order to recoup that, it would have had to sell GTA 3 levels and it didn't.
Not disputing the high cost of the game (much of it being due to a number of things of no fault to gamers, like a previous version on the Saturn) but to say that the game was "ignored" at launch wasn't a true statement. It was one of the best-selling games on its system.
Sega didn't publish Bayonetta 2 because the first game didn't sell well. Bayonetta 2 was a Wii U exclusive because Platinum Games asked Nintendo's investors to fund it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with SEGA the IP holder.
The situation's fairly murky, but Bayonetta 2 had been in development before the deal with Nintendo. There were even reports of a planned cover story announcement for a PS3/360 version before Sega pulled the plug on the game.
The gamers should blame themselves for setting the bar so high with such extreme expectations.
Clearly their expectations weren't so extreme, as Shenmue III is, as we could see, possible with mostly Kickstarter-funded money for a cost that Sega (at any point in the past 15 years) could have afforded. And Sega is now (evidently) at work on ports of the prior two games, so these don't seem to have been such astronomical requests from the fanbase all these years.
I'm of course not saying that Sega should have been expected to spend another $70 million on a Shenmue game. But they wouldn't have had to.
Ben, Sega is under new leadership. That's why the focus is on pleasing the fans right now with great games
I definitely hope so.
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I think the key thing to take away from this interview is that the CEO's strategy of rebuilding the Sega brand is clearly not meant for only Sega of Japan (as was too often the case with Sega) but for Sega worldwide. It's one thing for Haruki Satomi to say something in a Japanese interview, but it's another thing to see it being repeated by the people at Sega Europe. Seems like it might actually be just more than words this time around.
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I'm not at all upset that SEGA have now seen that Shenmue is worth investing in... They had solid reasons for thinking otherwise and I'm happy they have been proven wrong... At the end of the day Shenmue exists because of SEGA, their money and there developers... And it has been allowed to continue because of SEGA. They entrusted it to Yu Suzuki... Sure it sucks they spent a good decade ignoring the IP but why be negative about a positive change?
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I think the key thing to take away from this interview is that the CEO's strategy of rebuilding the Sega brand is clearly not meant for only Sega of Japan (as was too often the case with Sega) but for Sega worldwide. It's one thing for Haruki Satomi to say something in a Japanese interview, but it's another thing to see it being repeated by the people at Sega Europe. Seems like it might actually be just more than words this time around.
I agree. And it was actually Haijime Satomi the company CEO,not his son who made the statement about what SEGA in the 90s was.
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Meanwhile, SEGA of America is still being quiet about this whole thing. I find that kind of suspicious and worrying.
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Trippled , I am hearing now that this bit about Shenmue is fake? Where did you get this information from? Did you personally copy it from the source website?
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Yeah I copied it after register.
Must have removed it then.
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Yeah I copied it after register.
Must have removed it then.
Okay, well now it is removed apparently and people think it was fake.
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Sega didn't publish Bayonetta 2 because the first game didn't sell well. Bayonetta 2 was a Wii U exclusive because Platinum Games asked Nintendo's investors to fund it. It had absolutely NOTHING to do with SEGA the IP holder.
It's adorable how you assume nothing but the best of an AAA publisher in a situation where said Publisher publicly stated that their PG games sold poorly and don't really want to continue any of them while PG developers themselves said that Sega shitcanned the sequel mid-development but allowed them to search other publishers to look for funds. That's the extent of their investment of the game. They couldn't give less of a shit about it, not even assed to bring in a producer or executive producer.
It has literally everything to to with Sega as the IP holder because, as time has proven so blatantly in the past, they can't see the inherent value that niche, cult hit games like Bayonetta brings to their brand as a whole and leave that shit to dry in the wind. Literally everyone showered the fucking game with 10/10s and said Bayonetta is one of the last bastions of japanese 3D pure action games.
I know this is a Sega fanboy place and all, and I wouldn't be here if I wasn't one, but it's fucking baffling how so many people here talk about Sega like they are stockholders or some shit instead of actual video game fans and justify Sega's depressingly anemic attitude with themselves as a whole with BUT THE NUMBERS DON'T MAKE SENSE crap.
Yes. Shemnue 1 and 2 cost 70 million. So the fuck what? How hard it is to actually port that game in HD in a digital format? Just to test the waters, see if there's any wiggle down there. The only decent thing they've ever done with the IP was letting Yu Suzuki do his thing but that's the bare minimum you could ever do.
It's not. Valkyrie Chronicles was ported by 5 fucking guys and it was one of the best PC ports out there and apparently that was a gigantic effort for Sega of Europe to make it happen cause Sega of Japan is being Sega of Japan.
They don't care, they never really did after the golden age. Now Shemnue 3 is flipping the shit out of everyone so Sega is "thinking of ways" of bringing it again. I'll not say things aren't ultimately driven by money, especially in the video game industry, but they could at least try not to be so fucking transparent about it.
Even Square Enix still releases incredibly niche and disturbing weird Japanese crap that will NEVER really sell (Anything by Taro Yoko) but there's some top suit in there that recognizes the true value in games that don't necessarily make big, gigantic piles of cash in day 1.
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It's adorable how you assume nothing but the best of an AAA publisher in a situation where said Publisher publicly stated that their PG games sold poorly and don't really want to continue any of them while PG developers themselves said that Sega shitcanned the sequel mid-development but allowed them to search other publishers to look for funds. That's the extent of their investment of the game. They couldn't give less of a shit about it, not even assed to bring in a producer or executive producer.
It has literally everything to to with Sega as the IP holder because, as time has proven so blatantly in the past, they can't see the inherent value that niche, cult hit games like Bayonetta brings to their brand as a whole and leave that shit to dry in the wind. Literally everyone showered the fucking game with 10/10s and said Bayonetta is one of the last bastions of japanese 3D pure action games.
I know this is a Sega fanboy place and all, and I wouldn't be here if I wasn't one, but it's fucking baffling how so many people here talk about Sega like they are stockholders or some shit instead of actual video game fans and justify Sega's depressingly anemic attitude with themselves as a whole with BUT THE NUMBERS DON'T MAKE SENSE crap.
Yes. Shemnue 1 and 2 cost 70 million. So the fuck what? How hard it is to actually port that game in HD in a digital format? Just to test the waters, see if there's any wiggle down there. The only decent thing they've ever done with the IP was letting Yu Suzuki do his thing but that's the bare minimum you could ever do.
It's not. Valkyrie Chronicles was ported by 5 fucking guys and it was one of the best PC ports out there and apparently that was a gigantic effort for Sega of Europe to make it happen cause Sega of Japan is being Sega of Japan.
They don't care, they never really did after the golden age. Now Shemnue 3 is flipping the shit out of everyone so Sega is "thinking of ways" of bringing it again. I'll not say things aren't ultimately driven by money, especially in the video game industry, but they could at least try not to be so fucking transparent about it.
Even Square Enix still releases incredibly niche and disturbing weird Japanese crap that will NEVER really sell (Anything by Taro Yoko) but there's some top suit in there that recognizes the true value in games that don't necessarily make big, gigantic piles of cash in day 1.
So a game company SHOULD take losses? A game should make its profit over time if it doesn't sell well?
No. That's NOT how it works. Investors are the vocal majority, not gamers. They expect a projection and productivity goal to be met.
I love how gamers act so pompous like their voices matter most. Like they act as if they control the company and know what's best. Basically talk the talk, but don't know how to walk the walk.
And FYI, Bayonetta came out in 2010. The sequel was moved to Nintendo because it didn't profit or sell well. The sequel came out in 2014 and wasn't announced until 2012.
And NO, there's zero value in niche if the budget is extremely high.
So in short, SEGA does know best, because the company has maintained profit OUTSIDE of publishing.
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Look, let's all agree that SEGA is absolutely trash when it comes to handling their own IPs and move on. It doesn't have anything to do with profits, they just flat out can't handle anything in one way or another. At this point we're all squawking like a bunch of seagulls.
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Look, let's all agree that SEGA is absolutely trash when it comes to handling their own IPs and move on. It doesn't have anything to do with profits, they just flat out can't handle anything in one way or another. At this point we're all squawking like a bunch of seagulls.
Why do you come here if you don't want to discuss Sega-related matters?
No. Sega is not trash at handling its IPs. Sega handles them just fine, the games just need some higher quality and marketing.
Usually people that say comments like yours are the same that complain about some 20 year old series not having a comeback. Most Sega series stay in a single generation. Streets of Rage for example. Or Jet Set Radio. It's how it is
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Why do you come here if you don't want to discuss Sega-related matters?
No. Sega is not trash at handling its IPs. Sega handles them just fine, the games just need some higher quality and marketing.
Usually people that say comments like yours are the same that complain about some 20 year old series not having a comeback. Most Sega series stay in a single generation. Streets of Rage for example. Or Jet Set Radio. It's how it is
Your absolutely right!!!!!!
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I'm not at all upset that SEGA have now seen that Shenmue is worth investing in... They had solid reasons for thinking otherwise and I'm happy they have been proven wrong...
What reasons did they have to think otherwise? Shenmue and Shenmue II's cliffhanger ending have become legendary in the industry, and the amount of people begging Sega for a Shenmue III at nearly every possible opportunity was almost astronomical. They were evidently aware of the demand to at least some extent, since they banned their developers from even discussing it in interviews.
What more did the fans have to do to get Sega to realize that they were out there?
I guess it was to (literally) give their money to someone else.
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The announcement that PSO2 was coming to PS4 in the West would have been a far better example of their leadership change having an effect than their idea to re-release Shenmue after they see that there's money in it, something that Sega's never shown themselves to be reluctant to do.
SEGA wants to bring PSO2 PC exclusive stateside.
It makes since why, MMOPGs cost a fortune to run on console networks.
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lt is absolutely wrong at saying SEGA have been ignoring Shenmue and refusing it's developers to talk about it. The series has had references in Virtua Fighter and Sonic Racing and then there's the whole matter of Shenmue Online. And everyone always uses the Dreamcast figure but completely overlooks the fact the game didn't do more than half that on the Xbox which had a bigger userbase (and if you want to argue the game would fail because no one bought the original then you're implying the product would fail irregardless)
However it has been extremely trying if someone keeps asking you the same question every single time.
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I'm not at all upset that SEGA have now seen that Shenmue is worth investing in... They had solid reasons for thinking otherwise and I'm happy they have been proven wrong... At the end of the day Shenmue exists because of SEGA, their money and there developers... And it has been allowed to continue because of SEGA. They entrusted it to Yu Suzuki... Sure it sucks they spent a good decade ignoring the IP but why be negative about a positive change?
SEGA are still ignoring the IP, SEGA aren't funding it at all and aren't making it In-House SEGa wanted nothing at all to do with Shenmue - That's the issue I guess for some. Sure SEGA should get some credit for allowing Yu Suzuki to continue work on its IP, but I much rather SEGA Japan had the Yakuza Team and AM#2 working on Shenmue III and giving it a 30 million dollar backing
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Why do you come here if you don't want to discuss Sega-related matters?
No. Sega is not trash at handling its IPs. Sega handles them just fine, the games just need some higher quality and marketing.
Usually people that say comments like yours are the same that complain about some 20 year old series not having a comeback. Most Sega series stay in a single generation. Streets of Rage for example. Or Jet Set Radio. It's how it is
Sonic games suffer from horrible inconsistency.
One half of their IPs are dormant with no signs of returning.
The other half are stuck forever in Japan and refuse to localize.
They handle collaborations like the Platinum Games one poorly.
They actively LIE in order to trick people into thinking they've improved.
With this all going on for decades too.
And you have the nerve to say that SEGA handles their products "fine"?
Look, I love SEGA, but at the same time I'm not going to wear rose-tinted glasses and say they're the messiah of video game companies like a sheep.
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Sonic games suffer from horrible inconsistency.
One half of their IPs are dormant with no signs of returning.
The other half are stuck forever in Japan and refuse to localize.
They handle collaborations like the Platinum Games one poorly.
They actively LIE in order to trick people into thinking they've improved.
With this all going on for decades too.
And you have the nerve to say that SEGA handles their products "fine"?
Er Platinum Games still got more support from SEGA than any other publisher, so that's a poor point. You'd be better off suggesting someone like Obsidian but overall, SEGA is an excellent partner, for the most part anyway.
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What reasons did they have to think otherwise? Shenmue and Shenmue II's cliffhanger ending have become legendary in the industry, and the amount of people begging Sega for a Shenmue III at nearly every possible opportunity was almost astronomical. They were evidently aware of the demand to at least some extent, since they banned their developers from even discussing it in interviews.
What more did the fans have to do to get Sega to realize that they were out there?
I guess it was to (literally) give their money to someone else.
The reason is simple, and I'm not sure why you're acting like you don't know it. Shenmue wasn't profitable, in fact it lost the company crazy money...They deemed the risk not worth the potential reward after they got burned so badly before, a pretty wise business choice. Like it or not.
Despite a pretty vocal online presents, in the grand scheme of things even the 70k kick starter backers are not even close to the numbers they need to sell for an AAA game like Shenmue to be profitable and I assume every vocal Shenmue fan put money in, even if it was $5.
A bunch of whiney buttholes on the internet don't actually have better business sense than a 60 year old company.... Shocking, I know.
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Shenmue wasn't profitable, in fact it lost the company crazy money...They deemed the risk not worth the potential reward after they got burned so badly before, a pretty wise business choice. Like it or not.
Spot on . I'm amazed SEGA even let Yu Suzuki make the sequel tbh . I get bored of the internet trolls asking for this and that. Shame they didn't put their money where their mouth was with Shenmue II on the DC or XBox then would have had a sequel from SEGA years back.
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Sonic games suffer from horrible inconsistency.One half of their IPs are dormant with no signs of returning.The other half are stuck forever in Japan and refuse to localize.They handle collaborations like the Platinum Games one poorly.They actively LIE in order to trick people into thinking they've improved.With this all going on for decades too.And you have the nerve to say that SEGA handles their products "fine"?Look, I love SEGA, but at the same time I'm not going to wear rose-tinted glasses and say they're the messiah of video game companies like a sheep.
The fanbase has gotten extreme and overzealous with its furries and manchild retards, that's why Sonic Boom was created and why SEGA of Japan is now in full charge of the main Sonic series. The inconsistencies are due to the fact that the Sonic fanbase is now an unoriganized,double minded,schizophrenic mess.
SEGA's older IPs are for an OLDER generation. Younger gamers don't remember or care about Streets of Rage,Ecco,Shining Force,Burning Rangers,Crazy Taxi,Jet Set Radio,Zaxxon e.t.c. So without a generation of gamers who would rather see them on a SEGA branded platform since that's what they were released on and ORIGINALLY developed for, it makes logical sense not to revive them if they can't profit from a large userbase.
The other half of Japanese IPs are extremely niche, and thus not profitable overseas. You know SEGA TRIED hard with VC and AGAIN with VC3. Why didn't these games sell? Answer me that. It wasn't SEGA's fault. It was gamers who ignored it for garbage like Gears of War.
No they don't. Binary Domain,Alpha Protocol,Vanquish,Bayonetta just to name a few. Come to think of it, SEGA has far more IPs from Platinum Games than any other publisher. So the relationship seems to be pretty good.
Lie? No, Console gamers NEVER put their money where their mouths are. Period. They want EVERY game to be perfect. They are so picky,so fault finding that ANYTHING they don't see as perfection, they'll bitch and moan about. Then they'll turn around and buy the latest rehash of Call of Duty and then claim that it's a perfect,must have Triple A game.
Wrong. SEGA used to be a hardware company 20 years ago. And I can honestly say, their consoles have aged far better than Playstation. Saturn is a far better product with FAR better niche titles and a strong Japanese library. Genesis was out 2 years before SNES, thus its library is far bigger, Master System is still a pleasant 8-bit 80s console with its own charm. And Dreamcast, in its short life has far more memorable titles than PS2. Even SEGA CD, when you look past its FMV shovelware has must have collectible titles like Snatcher,Shining Force CD,Popful Mail. SEGA branded systems had both quality,durability, affordability and noteworthy games worth collecting. And because they were built from Arcade hardware and thus had a uniqueness and ingenuity to it.
There's a large generation of older "hipster" gamers like me who miss that, and would like to see someone attempt that. And who also feel that Sega can't duplicate that on its rival platforms. Because they (Nintendo,MS,Sony) DON'T know SEGA or understand them. That's why anytime I hear there's a chance that SEGA will consider eventually building hardware again, I get super excited and that's why I started that OP. Because the WIPO is to be taken VERY seriously.Er Platinum Games still got more support from SEGA than any other publisher, so that's a poor point. You'd be better off suggesting someone like Obsidian but overall, SEGA is an excellent partner, for the most part anyway.
Exactly. SEGA has far more PG IPs than anyone else.
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Sonic games suffer from horrible inconsistency.
One half of their IPs are dormant with no signs of returning.
The other half are stuck forever in Japan and refuse to localize.
They handle collaborations like the Platinum Games one poorly.
They actively LIE in order to trick people into thinking they've improved.
With this all going on for decades too.
And you have the nerve to say that SEGA handles their products "fine"?
Look, I love SEGA, but at the same time I'm not going to wear rose-tinted glasses and say they're the messiah of video game companies like a sheep.
I 100% agree with you. I don't know who would be mad enough to say they handle their IPs just fine when they can only really afford to make Sonic, Yakuza, and Hatsune Miku these days.
I don't care if they're fine financially due to acquired studios or mobile games, I still feel like they're creatively bankrupt.
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Er Platinum Games still got more support from SEGA than any other publisher, so that's a poor point. You'd be better off suggesting someone like Obsidian but overall, SEGA is an excellent partner, for the most part anyway.
Debatable.
They still made a terrible port of Bayonetta for ps3, bungled the release of anarchy reigns completely, and cancelled B2. They didn't really help market the games well either.
That's not the only time they've been a bad partner either. How about the 3 game sonic/nintendo partnership that resulted in 2 terrible games and one very mixed game? How about the whole Colonial Marines fiasco? How about poor Tembo the Elephant getting zero marketing what so ever?
Yeah, I'd say they're a mediocre partner at best.
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Debatable.
They still made a terrible port of Bayonetta for ps3, bungled the release of anarchy reigns completely, and cancelled B2. They didn't really help market the games well either.
That's not the only time they've been a bad partner either. How about the 3 game sonic/nintendo partnership that resulted in 2 terrible games and one very mixed game? How about the whole Colonial Marines fiasco? How about poor Tembo the Elephant getting zero marketing what so ever?
Yeah, I'd say they're a mediocre partner at best.
There's a lot of bad reasoning here.
Firstly Bayonetta on PS3 was only possible because SEGA was willing to make a port. Platinum had neither the manpower nor interest in making a PS3 version. And let's not act like trying to port a game that was built for the 360 in mind was an easy job either.
Second which other publisher has done a good job marketing Platinum stuff? Certainly not Nintendo or Activision and Konami only lasted for one deal. So far out of everyone they've worked with, SEGA been the best, no debate on that.
The rest you seem to have overlooked what I said. Compare it with other publishers in the industry and SEGA is actually a decent partner.
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There's a lot of bad reasoning here.
Firstly Bayonetta on PS3 was only possible because SEGA was willing to make a port. Platinum had neither the manpower nor interest in making a PS3 version. And let's not act like trying to port a game that was built for the 360 in mind was an easy job either.
Second which other publisher has done a good job marketing Platinum stuff? Certainly not Nintendo or Activision and Konami only lasted for one deal. So far out of everyone they've worked with, SEGA been the best, no debate on that.
The rest you seem to have overlooked what I said. Compare it with other publishers in the industry and SEGA is actually a decent partner.
I like how it's bad reasoning because you don't agree with it. I listed how Sega let Platinum down and you retort with
"well nobody else was doing it." Also, just because Platinum wasn't willing to make a PS3 version doesn't excuse the quality of Sega's port at all. You make it sound like the ps3 ver was icing on the cake when in fact platinum went on record to call the port their biggest failure yet. And for good reason! That version of the game was the one MOST GAMERS PLAYED. Yes, what a great partnership! I can see why companies are just chomping at the bit to get the Sega treatment! I'm sure Tembo can give a great endorsement.
But I can see you've at least scaled back your description to "decent" at this point. Thanks for moving the goalpost.
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Actually the Bayo port was by Nex Entertainment.
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Actually the Bayo port was by Nex Entertainment.
Yes but Nex was commissioned by Sega. The blame still lies with them.
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Yes but Nex was commissioned by Sega. The blame still lies with them.
YOU'RE MOVING THE GOALPOST!!!
So that Shenmue quote has since been clarified with the actual quote: http://segabits.com/blog/2015/10/27/sega-europe-marketing-director-says-they-are-exploring-ways-to-re-release-shenmue-1-and-2/
Basically, after being asked about Shenmue he said “There are lots of opportunities for legacy titles. We are exploring. We know what fans want as they have a petition.”
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YOU'RE MOVING THE GOALPOST!!!
How so? Sega still "handled" the port. Honestly, them outsourcing it like that kind of makes it worse.
Aki changed his description from excellent to decent.
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YOU'RE MOVING THE GOALPOST!!!
So that Shenmue quote has since been clarified with the actual quote: http://segabits.com/blog/2015/10/27/sega-europe-marketing-director-says-they-are-exploring-ways-to-re-release-shenmue-1-and-2/ (http://segabits.com/blog/2015/10/27/sega-europe-marketing-director-says-they-are-exploring-ways-to-re-release-shenmue-1-and-2/)
Basically, after being asked about Shenmue he said “There are lots of opportunities for legacy titles. We are exploring. We know what fans want as they have a petition.”
What do they mean with "legacy titles" exactly?
Like are they talking about cult games in a vein to Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, and so on? Something specific would help clarify.
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I like how it's bad reasoning because you don't agree with it. I listed how Sega let Platinum down and you retort with
"well nobody else was doing it." Also, just because Platinum wasn't willing to make a PS3 version doesn't excuse the quality of Sega's port at all. You make it sound like the ps3 ver was icing on the cake when in fact platinum went on record to call the port their biggest failure yet. And for good reason! That version of the game was the one MOST GAMERS PLAYED. Yes, what a great partnership! I can see why companies are just chomping at the bit to get the Sega treatment! I'm sure Tembo can give a great endorsement.
But I can see you've at least scaled back your description to "decent" at this point. Thanks for moving the goalpost.
It is bad reasoning, I mean I can't comprehension it since it seems over the top without looking at the positives. Wither you like it or not, MadWorld, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Infinite Space AND Anarchy Reigns would not be possible under any other mid-tier publisher sans THQ. And the fact is, the first three games in that list were strongly supported.
The port of Bayonetta wasn't some game crashing glitchfest, let's not try and act like it was a similar disaster to Skyrim, it wasn't a good port either. But you seem to be failing to understand why it wasn't a good port, Platinum built the original Bayonetta ground up with the Xbox 360 in mind, the Playstation 3 was a coding trainwreck that even Sony realises was a massive mistake. Without laying the foundations with the engine, you were going to get a bad job later on.
And let's not act like SEGA didn't and still don't have any pull with third parties. Smaller third parties are looking for work, they don't care who the work comes from, as long as they get it. SEGA won't be able to pull someone like Bungie anymore, but if they wanted to, they'd get the majority of third party developers on their side.
Not even changing goal posts just typing on the phone, but if you want to project me as some sort of rabid SEGA fanboy, by all means go ahead. You seem to overlook the fact I said "You'd be better off suggesting someone like Obsidian..." but honed straight onto the excellent bit because I'm one of those crazies who liked that one video game more than you.
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It is bad reasoning. Wither you like it or not, MadWorld, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Infinite Space AND Anarchy Reigns would not be possible under any other mid-tier publisher sans THQ. And the fact is, the first three games in that list were strongly supported.
I still don't get how you're getting to this conclusion. Platinum games has been finding work just fine without Sega. Scalebound, Bayonetta 2, and W101 were all seemingly made without hassle or issue and are being marketed just as well as Sega did with Bayonetta or Madworld. All you're really confirming is that Platinum did indeed make some games under Sega's banner. I don't see how that makes them a great partner.
If the relationship had been great wouldn't they still be together?
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I still don't get how you're getting to this conclusion. Platinum games has been finding work just fine without Sega. Scalebound, Bayonetta 2, and W101 were all seemingly made without hassle or issue and are being marketed just as well as Sega did with Bayonetta or Madworld. All you're really confirming is that Platinum did indeed make some games under Sega's banner. I don't see how that makes them a great partner.
Platinum under SEGA said they wanted to make their own IPs on their own terms. That saw them produce 5 new IPs.
Platinum has since worked on one returning series, two original IPs, 2 licensed tie in games and 3 IPs belonging to other publishers.
From never needing to find work to help keep the ship afloat to needing to get work to support the rest of the company, there's definitely been a change in direction from their original foundations. They are producing excellent games, however they no longer have the safety net SEGA original provided them.
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lt is absolutely wrong at saying SEGA have been ignoring Shenmue and refusing it's developers to talk about it.
Kikizo did their famous big interview with Yu Suzuki and they were more or less forbidden by Sega from publishing anything Shenmue 3-related in it. They even put this notice at the end of the interview because they knew that those reading it would wonder why Shenmue III was never discused:
Officially Sega will not talk about a real Shenmue successor under any circumstances. Some stuff we've agreed with Sega can't be published, although there was nothing of massive significance to provide an absolute answer that some fans want - and we're not just being tantalising for the sake of it here, the point is that Sega really, really doesn't like talking about Shenmue at all.
http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/sega_yu_suzuki_iv_feb06_p1.asp (http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/sega_yu_suzuki_iv_feb06_p1.asp)
The series has had references in Virtua Fighter and Sonic Racing
I'm not denying that Ryo was used as way to sell copies of the likes of Sonic All Stars Racing but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. Again, I'm not denying that Sega likes using characters of theirs to sell their games. My argument is that Sega does then not actually reward their fans with games based on their characters.
However it has been extremely trying if someone keeps asking you the same question every single time.
I agree, but had Sega actually answered the question and not let Shenmue III be the big purple elephant in the room for the past decade and a half then maybe they wouldn't have been asked it so much.
The reason is simple, and I'm not sure why you're acting like you don't know it. Shenmue wasn't profitable, in fact it lost the company crazy money...They deemed the risk not worth the potential reward after they got burned so badly before, a pretty wise business choice. Like it or not.
Despite a pretty vocal online presents, in the grand scheme of things even the 70k kick starter backers are not even close to the numbers they need to sell for an AAA game like Shenmue to be profitable and I assume every vocal Shenmue fan put money in, even if it was $5.
A bunch of whiney buttholes on the internet don't actually have better business sense than a 60 year old company.... Shocking, I know.
Where I disagree with you (and I imagine several in this topic) is that I don't think that as Sega fans we should simply be expected to embrace everything the company does. The Nintendo fanbase has for years been guilty of simply accepting Nintendo's bad decisions and making excuses for them, and as a result Nintendo's remained 10 years behind the rest of the industry for generations now. They haven't changed because they didn't feel the need to; their fanbase was not asking that they change.
Sega should have engaged the fanbase and found out a way to make Shenmue III happen. And maybe that doesn't mean an AAA title; maybe that meant a digital-only title for around the cost of $5 million (or whatever the total will be from the Shenmue 3 donors) that delivered a 3rd Shenmue game. Maybe it meant doing a Kickstarter. I mean, I dunno, there are a lot of ways to communicate with a fanbase these days.
Shenmue III is clearly happening, it clearly won't be an AAA title, but as I think we can see, fans don't care. We just wanted the game. We just wanted to continue the story.
There were many ways to approach a Shenmue III and make it happen. Sega chose to ignore all of them and pretend that the series didn't exist (for the most part.) To me that was a mistake and you say it was a wise business decision but looking at the reaction to Shenmue III, I'd say they're missing out.
. And everyone always uses the Dreamcast figure but completely overlooks the fact the game didn't do more than half that on the Xbox which had a bigger userbase (and if you want to argue the game would fail because no one bought the original then you're implying the product would fail irregardless)
The Xbox version arrived nearly a year after Shenmue II on the DC was one of the highest-imported games of all time. So of course with the majority of the fanbase having played it by the time it came out, that certainly hurt its sales.
Not sure that the Xbox had a bigger userbase than 10 million units by 2002 either, by the way. The system was just under 2 years old when the port of Shenmue II released for it. The Xbox version was also not advertised.
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It is bad reasoning, I mean I can't comprehension it since it seems over the top without looking at the positives. Wither you like it or not, MadWorld, Bayonetta, Vanquish, Infinite Space AND Anarchy Reigns would not be possible under any other mid-tier publisher sans THQ. And the fact is, the first three games in that list were strongly supported.
The port of Bayonetta wasn't some game crashing glitchfest, let's not try and act like it was a similar disaster to Skyrim, it wasn't a good port either. But you seem to be failing to understand why it wasn't a good port, Platinum built the original Bayonetta ground up with the Xbox 360 in mind, the Playstation 3 was a coding trainwreck that even Sony realises was a massive mistake. Without laying the foundations with the engine, you were going to get a bad job later on.
And let's not act like SEGA didn't and still don't have any pull with third parties. Smaller third parties are looking for work, they don't care who the work comes from, as long as they get it. SEGA won't be able to pull someone like Bungie anymore, but if they wanted to, they'd get the majority of third party developers on their side.
Not even changing goal posts just typing on the phone, but if you want to project me as some sort of rabid SEGA fanboy, by all means go ahead. You seem to overlook the fact I said "You'd be better off suggesting someone like Obsidian..." but honed straight onto the excellent bit because I'm one of those crazies who liked that one video game more than you.
Your speaking the truth.
Keep up the good work. Being frank is the key to supressing complaints of matters not elaborated on.
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Platinum under SEGA said they wanted to make their own IPs on their own terms. That saw them produce 5 new IPs.
Platinum has since worked on one returning series, two original IPs, 2 licensed tie in games and 3 IPs belonging to other publishers.
From never needing to find work to help keep the ship afloat to needing to get work to support the rest of the company, there's definitely been a change in direction from their original foundations. They are producing excellent games, however they no longer have the safety net SEGA original provided them.
You know what, that's totally true. I forgot that the whole inception of the original Platinum/Sega deal was complete creative autonomy. I guess it would have been nice if they had been rewarded with sales.
Additionally, while the whole deal started very amicably, it's hard not to let the cancellation of B2 at the hands of Sega feel like them being the bad guys yet again.
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Kikizo did their famous big interview with Yu Suzuki and they were more or less forbidden by Sega from publishing anything Shenmue 3-related in it. They put this notice at the end of the interview.
http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/sega_yu_suzuki_iv_feb06_p1.asp (http://archive.videogamesdaily.com/features/sega_yu_suzuki_iv_feb06_p1.asp)
Ah I see, well I was talking about Shenmue the brand, then Shenmue 3 itself.
I'm not denying that Ryo was used as way to sell copies of the likes of Sonic All Stars Racing but that's not exactly what I'm talking about. Again, I'm not denying that Sega likes using characters of theirs to sell their games. My argument is that Sega does then not actually reward their fans with games based on their characters.
But they do, the games have to sell. We're being "rewarded" with more Miku and Sonic (And Total War etc) because those products sold.
I agree, but had Sega actually answered the question maybe they wouldn't have been asked it so much.
Very much doubt it would have deterred some. We had SEGA people on Twitter say Shenmue 3 would be hard to develop in today's climate a few years back (Actually me and Bruno got dragged into it by some Shenmue fans)
The Xbox version arrived nearly a year after Shenmue II on the DC was one of the highest-imported games of all time. So of course with the majority of the fanbase having played it by the time it came out, that certainly hurt its sales.
Not sure that the Xbox had a bigger userbase than 10 million units by 2002 either, by the way. The system was just under 2 years old when the port of Shenmue II released for it. The Xbox version was also not advertised.
The Dreamcast's 10 million figure was it's final figure no?
The Xbox managed over 1 million sales in three months in the US;
On November 15, 2001, Xbox launched in North America and quickly sold out. Its launch in that region was successful, selling 1.53 million units three months after launch, which is higher than its successor Xbox 360, as well as the GameCube (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GameCube), PlayStation 3 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_3), Wii U (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_U), and even the PlayStation 2 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2) and Wii (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii).
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/wii-u-has-historically-bad-january-sells-about-50000-units-in-us/ (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013/02/wii-u-has-historically-bad-january-sells-about-50000-units-in-us/)
I think it's safe to assume it'd have established a decent userbase in the US and Europe, maybe not 10 million but a few million under it. Possibly 6 or 7 million?
Shenmue 2 didn't break a million, so I doubt the import figure was a big number either. I mean, you can say SEGA SHOULD have done better, but after the first failure, than the second failure and further failure in an ill judged online game, there's no way you can justify spending even more R&D on the series. It was a game made to sell consoles and without SEGA needing to sell anymore consoles, it was unfortunately discarded.
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You know what, that's totally true. I forgot that the whole inception of the original Platinum/Sega deal was complete creative autonomy. I guess it would have been nice if they had been rewarded with sales.
This has been my biggest "disappointment" with what has become of Platinum. It's not such a sad fate though since they've worked on some major IPs, but I'd rather have hoped Activision or Square (Especially since it's Nier 2 they're working on) would have got them working on more original titles so I've got my fingers crossed and hoping Scalebound does well enough to warrant more blank cheques from Microsoft.
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Ah I see, well I was talking about Shenmue the brand, then Shenmue 3 itself.
I see.
Well, even the brand, I mean....I wouldn't say that for the most part Sega's been particularly forthcoming over the years about Shenmue, lol. Ryo appearances here or there aside.
But they do, the games have to sell. We're being "rewarded" with more Miku and Sonic (And Total War etc) because those products sold.
But here's the weird thing....Neither Sonic (anymore) nor Yakuza nor Miku are million-sellers.....Shenmue 1 sold more than any Yakuza game in recent memory and probably about evenly/greater than every recent Sonic game too (Beyond the GC/PS2/Xbox era). I mean several Sonic games have bombed over the past few years, I don't see Sega discontinuing the series.
Shenmue II isn't really the best benchmark for the series' success.... You're talking about a sequel whose Western release was entirely butchered/handed off.....Shenmue III happening or not should have been judged by the clear interest in/anticipation for it. And by how passionate Sega fans were about it.
The anticipation for a 3rd Shenmue game among not even just the fanbase but among the industry itself (who became intrigued with the 2nd game's infamous ever-unresolved cliffhanger) was ridiculously high. How is it that the Playstation fanbase was able to make the game happen, lol? If it wasn't a game that people outside of the Sega community were interested in, Sony wouldn't have made it happen. Sega had to have been blind not to see the demand for a Shenmue III.
....maybe they only looked at Japan. (Unlike Yakuza, Shenmue did far better in the West, something which I think sadly plays far more into the series' fate at Sega than anything else.)
I think it's safe to assume it'd have established a decent userbase in the US and Europe, maybe not 10 million but a few million under it. Possibly 6 or 7 million?
Vs a userbase almost entirely made up of Sega fans, which was the case with the Dreamcast. Shenmue by the way wasn't the only Sega IP that failed to sell well on the Xbox. It was a bad system for Japanese-developed games in general. If Sega absolutely had to cancel the Dreamcast version, the PS2 would have been a far better choice.
Shenmue 2 didn't break a million, so I doubt the import figure was a big number either.
Well dude it's kinda hard to tell...I mean, I bought my copy from a website called Videogameimports.com, or something...I don't know how Sega profited from that, or if my sales number was recorded, etc.
I do know that almost everyone I knew who liked Shenmue imported the second one. Hell I let friends borrow my copy. Sega just outright screwed their American fanbase over by releasing it everywhere else and cancelling our version weeks from release....and the reaction (if you remember at the time man) was insanely negative. Well, at least in the US. Might have been different for you guys in the UK since you got the Dreamcast version. But the press and stigma surrounding the Xbox game over here was awful.
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[SEGA's older IPs are for an OLDER generation. Younger gamers don't remember or care about Streets of Rage,Ecco,Shining Force,Burning Rangers,Crazy Taxi,Jet Set Radio,Zaxxon e.t.c. So without a generation of gamers who would rather see them on a SEGA branded platform since that's what they were released on and ORIGINALLY developed for, it makes logical sense not to revive them if they can't profit from a large userbase.
You underestimate how much younger gamers love retro games nowadays. Is it the VAST majority, hell no, but a good chunk, yes. You think games like Shovel Knight are ONLY being played by 80's and 90's gamers? Nah, they're showing them to their kids, along with other games from their generation. Kids are very easily exposed to retro stuff nowadays because it's so prevalent. You will of course have the brats that don't know shit, but ones raised open mindedly will be more accepting of older games.
Take me, for example. I came into gaming right after the Dreamcast died. I am a youngin compared to a lot of you. I had virtually no connection to SEGA, its franchises, or its legacy for most of my childhood. Outside of a brief period where I played some SEGA Xbox games, I had nothing. And now I, only soon turning an adult, am on a SEGA forum arguing about the company's future. Partly because of their newer output, but mostly because I went back and played their legacy.
SEGA aren't a giant with money to spare anymore, but they aren't a weak piglet either. I agree it's stupid that they leave the majority of their backlog dormant, but I also realize that reviving even one of them with all the glam and glitz the fanbase wants would be a massive risk that might not pay off.
What do they mean with "legacy titles" exactly?
Like are they talking about cult games in a vein to Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, and so on? Something specific would help clarify.
I'm assuming they just mean their older games in general. You know, pre-Xbox 360 and back.
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Firstly Bayonetta on PS3 was only possible because SEGA was willing to make a port.
That's exactly it. Everything revolving around Bayonetta's PS3 port is solely connected to Sega. They made the sound decision of making it multiplatform since pure action games are a niche genre to begin with and as an original IP, Bayonetta needed as much leeway as it could. And considering the attach rate of the PS3 was actually higher than the original version, they made the right call there.
By that I mean they would have, if not for the complete fucking technical disaster that it is. And I'm not saying this because it was so bad Kamiya outright refused to even acknowledge its existence during the game's marketing campaign as he later said it made his own game look bad, I'm saying this that after randomly trying the PS3 version after more than 200 hours of play time with the 360 version, I can honestly attest that it's a sub30fps, screen tearing, color saturated, loading infested piece of shit. It was so fucking bad at first that they released a patch to remove the loading time you'd get when you pressed start to access the menu. A loading screen to access a menu. I have literally never heard of anything like that. Now, I never played Skyrim and I don't care how botched that thing was but Bayonetta on the PS3 is a fucking disservice to the game. It was so bad that PG personally vowed to handle every port of any game they would ever work on.
Platinum had neither the manpower nor interest in making a PS3 version. And let's not act like trying to port a game that was built for the 360 in mind was an easy job either.
Come on, the BUT IT'S HARD TO PORT 360 GAMES, MAN excuse is crap. We're talking about professionals here, they fucked up, pure and simple. When Platinum Games ported the game themselves for the WiiU, not only it was indistinguishable from the original 360 version, they actually managed to remove what little screen tearing it had.
Don't excuse shitty products. That's just saying it's okay for them not to give a shit. That port is just inexcusable.
Second which other publisher has done a good job marketing Platinum stuff? Certainly not Nintendo or Activision and Konami only lasted for one deal. So far out of everyone they've worked with, SEGA been the best, no debate on that.
Konami was by far the best. Microsoft is already doing a better job. Nintendo did a decent job and they cooked up a pretty awesome collector's edition of Bayonetta 2, although Wonderful 101 had 0 marketing.. Activision did it just enough to greenlight a completely new game from a completely different IP with a bigger budget. I wouldn't say Sega was mediocre since Bayonetta got a pretty good marketing campaign but then again no other Publisher pulled an Anarchy Reigns. Although then again Anarchy Reigns is kinda mediocre so that one was doomed to fail anyway, Sega even released it at a budget price, if I'm remembering right.
To me, the biggest different between all the collaborations PG had so far is that Sega was the one who had the biggest contract out of them all. They asked for more games. That doesn't necessarily mean they were the better partners. And by that I don't mean they were bad as a whole or anything like that, their biggest blunder there was the PS3 port but they made some amazing games happen. Too bad they just ditched all of it even if most of them sold over 1 million despite being new IPS. They just didn't knew what they had there. And now PG is literally being approach by EVERYONE to make games purely on the merit of the quality of their games, not on how much money they make because they do not make AAA money and probably never will. Square Enix picked them, Kojima personally picked them. Fucking Activision picked them. Nintendo accepted Bayonetta 2's proposal and now hired them for Starfox even after Bayonetta 2 didn't do so hot and Wonderful 101 bombed miserably. And Microsoft said yes to Scalebound without hesitation. They add brand value because their games are that good.
And this cynicism over them working on pre-existing series is fucking hilarious. Like Platinum Games making a Nier sequel is somehow not as creative as doing a new IP or doing a Transformers game based on the old school 80s cartoon isn't fucking amazing or doing a Metal Gear Spin off that's a completely different beast from a mainline Metal Gear game isn't sweet. Give me a fucking break. You want to talk about bland, soulless production-line sequels, go play Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty or some shit.
And when Sega and Platinum Games were doing their thing, that was the first and only time in a long time I've ever seen Sega being discussed so often and so much in a positive light. People were actually giving a shit about them again. Hell, I was. But then it was back to square 1 shortly.
But hey, there's a chance they'll port Bayonetta or Vanquish to PC. I'd buy the fuck out of Vanquish, that's for sure.
The fanbase has gotten extreme and overzealous with its furries and manchild retards, that's why Sonic Boom was created and why SEGA of Japan is now in full charge of the main Sonic series. The inconsistencies are due to the fact that the Sonic fanbase is now an unoriganized,double minded,schizophrenic mess.
That's a shitty excuse for shitty games. Plenty of game series out there are oozing out toxic, disgusting fanbases and that's not keeping them from having great games. Sega's insistence on trying to reinvent the wheel with fucking Sonic of all things is what made the series shit. This fanbase boogeyman argument is as deep as a puddle and just as interesting. Sonic 06 isn't a shit game because of furries, Sonic 06 is a shit game because Sega made a shit game. Simple as that.
And NO, there's zero value in niche if the budget is extremely high.
And yet, Platinum Games still keeps getting job offers after job offers after job offers. And why Bayonetta 2 exists even after the first one "bombed" by selling over 1 million copies as a new IP.
Clearly you're walking the walk. And Sega clearly knows what it's doing. Just look at Yakuza 5. A digital only release of a 3 year old game in a last gen console that's all but forgotten at this point with practically no marketing whatsoever that ONLY happened because Sony fucking payed for it.
I just can't wait when Sega or Sega apologists blames the fanbase when that one sells like shit. That's gonna be fun.
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all that justice
(https://media.giphy.com/media/GQnsaAWZ8ty00/giphy.gif)
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You underestimate how much younger gamers love retro games nowadays. Is it the VAST majority, hell no, but a good chunk, yes. You think games like Shovel Knight are ONLY being played by 80's and 90's gamers? Nah, they're showing them to their kids, along with other games from their generation. Kids are very easily exposed to retro stuff nowadays because it's so prevalent. You will of course have the brats that don't know shit, but ones raised open mindedly will be more accepting of older games.
Take me, for example. I came into gaming right after the Dreamcast died. I am a youngin compared to a lot of you. I had virtually no connection to SEGA, its franchises, or its legacy for most of my childhood. Outside of a brief period where I played some SEGA Xbox games, I had nothing. And now I, only soon turning an adult, am on a SEGA forum arguing about the company's future. Partly because of their newer output, but mostly because I went back and played their legacy.
SEGA aren't a giant with money to spare anymore, but they aren't a weak piglet either. I agree it's stupid that they leave the majority of their backlog dormant, but I also realize that reviving even one of them with all the glam and glitz the fanbase wants would be a massive risk that might not pay off.
I'm assuming they just mean their older games in general. You know, pre-Xbox 360 and back.
SEGA could only afford the risk of reviving their old IPs if they had their own dedicated platform to sell them on.(Because those titles again were made and developed for Sega systems) And while I applaud younger people like you for going and playing some of SEGA's old titles, its not a huge majority of millenials. They've grown up seeing SEGA as a struggling publisher and pretty much disregard everything before 2002.
For me, and for many veterans, its not just the Sega branded games. It's the hardware they were on too. There's just something about a SEGA branded product you can't get on other systems. An emotion or passion that's nowhere to be found on Playstation. Like the brand was VERY deeply involved in making a superb product and was TRULY passionate about game design in general. SEGA consoles had HEART & SOUL. Since then, they've been unable to find an actual identity This is basically what Haijime Satomi alluded to in Famistu about SEGA being left with nothing but a "reputation". The good news is that SEGA has ALOT of money to spend over $11 billion in actual cash flow.
http://www.morningstar.com/stocks/PINX/SGAMY/quote.html (http://www.morningstar.com/stocks/PINX/SGAMY/quote.html)
Other than that, amazing points. ;) They ARE NOT a weak piglet that can be sold off in a heartbeat or will just blindly sell off their IPs. Like Nintendo and Sony fanboys believe and falsely think.
This has been my biggest "disappointment" with what has become of Platinum. It's not such a sad fate though since they've worked on some major IPs, but I'd rather have hoped Activision or Square (Especially since it's Nier 2 they're working on) would have got them working on more original titles so I've got my fingers crossed and hoping Scalebound does well enough to warrant more blank cheques from Microsoft.
We live in an era where game design is not rewarded in the western market. It's all about hype and word-of-mouth. That's what sells games in the West and in Europe. Not great games. No, those are overlooked for lame, Tactical first person shooters and stupid,open world shovelware garbage like Destiny, all because they're marketed aggressively.
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SEGA could only afford the risk of reviving their old IPs if they had their own dedicated platform to sell them on.(Because those titles again were made and developed for Sega systems) And while I applaud younger people like you for going and playing some of SEGA's old titles, its not a huge majority of millenials. They've grown up seeing SEGA as a struggling publisher and pretty much disregard everything before 2002.
For me, and for many veterans, its not just the Sega branded games. It's the hardware they were on too. There's just something about a SEGA branded product you can't get on other systems. An emotion or passion that's nowhere to be found on Playstation. Like the brand was VERY deeply involved in making a superb product and was TRULY passionate about game design in general. SEGA consoles had HEART & SOUL. Since then, they've been unable to find an actual identity This is basically what Haijime Satomi alluded to in Famistu about SEGA being left with nothing but a "reputation". The good news is that SEGA has ALOT of money to spend over $11 billion in actual cash flow.
Why though? Why must SEGA games only be on SEGA systems to matter? You're telling me that none of their storied franchises has a chance on other consoles because...why? I don't quite understand the reasoning behind this, if anything that just sounds like fanboy speak. If anything, Shenmue 3 blowing up as much as it did being announced by Sony and with no involvement from SEGA shows their franchises can totally make do on other platforms.
And what of the SEGA games that came out right after the Dreamcast died? The likes of Shinobi PS2, Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta. Sure, they didn't sell amazingly, but they did alright for themselves. Not to mention recent re-releases which, again, while not doing amazingly, prove that there can be a market for these games off SEGA's hardware.
The problem is, SEGA does nothing to market. They just throw games out there and hope they do well. It's not that the games don't work off their hardware, it's that they don't tell people the games exist. The few times they have tried to bring back classics to new platforms way after the Dreamcast's death were plagued by weird design choices that were misguided at best (Altered Beast for PS2, Golden Axe: Beast Rider, and NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams come to mind).
It really makes no sense to think that their franchises simply can't exist because they're not on the hardware lineage they were born on. What they need is new blood with fresh ideas, and a team that can actually make people aware of the product.
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A good game is a good game, no matter the console. I loved playing the latest titles on the Genesis, Saturn, and Dreamcast – but following SEGA's shift to third party, no magic was lost on the good games. JSRF, VF4, Orta, Generations, Valkyria Chronicles, the Yakuza series, Super Monkey Ball, and many more games are just as great as any of the experiences I had on SEGA hardware. Even re-releases like Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 1&2 Remastered, NiGHTS HD and JSR HD retained every bit of what made me love them in the first place.
As mentioned, marketing is where SEGA seriously needs to step things up. They simply cannot and should not (but sadly, likely will again in the near future) announce a game a week before it is quietly released to digital services. They need to properly reveal it, build up to release, get fansites and YouTubers involved, preview and speak to gaming journalists, and make the release a proper event.
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Why though? Why must SEGA games only be on SEGA systems to matter? You're telling me that none of their storied franchises has a chance on other consoles because...why? I don't quite understand the reasoning behind this, if anything that just sounds like fanboy speak. If anything, Shenmue 3 blowing up as much as it did being announced by Sony and with no involvement from SEGA shows their franchises can totally make do on other platforms.
And what of the SEGA games that came out right after the Dreamcast died? The likes of Shinobi PS2, Jet Set Radio Future, Panzer Dragoon Orta. Sure, they didn't sell amazingly, but they did alright for themselves. Not to mention recent re-releases which, again, while not doing amazingly, prove that there can be a market for these games off SEGA's hardware.
The problem is, SEGA does nothing to market. They just throw games out there and hope they do well. It's not that the games don't work off their hardware, it's that they don't tell people the games exist. The few times they have tried to bring back classics to new platforms way after the Dreamcast's death were plagued by weird design choices that were misguided at best (Altered Beast for PS2, Golden Axe: Beast Rider, and NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams come to mind).
It really makes no sense to think that their franchises simply can't exist because they're not on the hardware lineage they were born on. What they need is new blood with fresh ideas, and a team that can actually make people aware of the product.
I seem to remember a little Wii killer app called Nights Journey into Dreams.
I seem to recall it being marketed aggressively, but failing to sell adequately.
Remember 2012's Transformed? Remember the Progressive Auto tie in, and NASCAR promo?
Still didn't sell.
You can't use the "they need to market more aggressively " because they've already tried that. People DO know about SEGA titles and know they're out there. They just don't have any interest in them because they think that they're a mediocre quality publisher. They been thinking that way since 2005.
Regarding Shenmue 3's KS, you didn't post the numbers. It raised only $6.3 million & had only 69,000 backers, outside of a fan crowdfunder, that's not very impressive. Its a vocal minority.
Regarding your question, SEGA has something Sony doesn't: A unique,ingenuity in hardware design and much better IPs. Why don't you sit down and play Saturn to see what I'm talking about.
I want SEGA to succeed at EVERYTHING they do. They've never really had alot of success and they so badly deserve it. They've overcome FAR too much for fans to justify dismiss them as a mediocre publisher and brush off everything else they're capable of.
SEGA needs to GROW and EXPAND as a company. And you don't want them to? I don't understand why.
Console game publishing doesn't really make very much revenue. Why should SEGA stay stagnated? Why should they just stay they way they are forever?This is why all of SEGA's brands outside of game publishing are doing well.
And regarding game journalism. It's a joke now in days. SEGA should pay them no mind. Isn't this the same market that BASHED and smeared Sonic Unleashed with bias,erroneous criticism and slander just because of the Werehog levels?
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Regarding Shenmue 3's KS, you didn't post the numbers. It raised only $6.3 million & had only 69,000 backers, outside of a fan crowdfunder, that's not very impressive. Its a vocal minority.
But why look at it "outside of a crowdfunder"? It is a crowdfunder and it's one of the must successful crowdfunding efforts in this industry. Were you expecting 23 million? Kickstarter gaming projects don't amass those type of funds, ever...they're developing a game, not curing cancer.
The fact is, the success of the Kickstarter indicates interest among gamers for the series and that's the only reason why (I feel) we're seeing Sega discussing revisiting Shenmue in any capacity. (Though it turns out that they now weren't "specifically referring to Shenmue.")
As mentioned, marketing is where SEGA seriously needs to step things up. They simply cannot and should not (but sadly, likely will again in the near future) announce a game a week before it is quietly released to digital services. They need to properly reveal it, build up to release, get fansites and YouTubers involved, preview and speak to gaming journalists, and make the release a proper event.
The reason I'm so skeptical about Sega's latest comments/their new leadership is because while they say they're going to be making an effort to go back to their glory days and releasing console titles, etc....they then majorly downsize their branch in North America, which is the largest gaming market...just doesn't make sense to me. Moving a few of them into Atlus' offices doesn't exactly seem like they're positioning them for growth.
Sega of Europe doesn't do very well at marketing games in North America, we've seen that. They're two very different markets. If Sega wants to again become a key player in the West then they need a stronger Sega of America, not a smaller one. If Atlus is going to now be the promoter of Sega games in North America then I don't have much high hopes that we'll see an improvement on the marketing side, as Atlus will be far more focused on the marketing of their own games. They're not a huge company. Sega was always much bigger than Atlus.
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Staying small while offering more niche offerings is maybe a better way to operate however. I heard that Atlus USA is really small, like 10 employees or something. The interview isn't translated sadly, but from what I can tell they dont go for million sellers anymore, just 500.000 across the whole thing. They said that Atlus USA way off capturing US fans is "really huge".
Sonic is it's own office it seems, there I think they want to make million sellers...
To be honest, Ben, I actually agree with you that it is a shame for Sega to not be major, and be XSeed/NIS esque publisher. You rarely hear that opinion however in the current climate.
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Nahh I'm pretty sure they're bigger than 10....I'd hope, anyway lol. But yeah, they're a small branch of a not-so-big Japanese developer. They have enough on their plate with the marketing of their own games, and I'm not sure that they'll put that same enthusiasm into the marketing of Sega games, or that they even know how to.
I think too though by the way that smaller and more niche is better...it's sad, but it's better that they shoot for Atlus than for THQ, haha. But....if a game like Alien Isolation comes out (a game which evidently didn't do so well in North America partially because of its lack of marketing) we need a North American branch who knows how to market a game like that to an American audience.
Sega is a big company. Bigger than Atlus/NIS/Xseed, etc.
Of course they're not Bethesda, or something, lol.....but I still feel that shrinking down further in America is the opposite of what they should be doing.
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I seem to remember a little Wii killer app called Nights Journey into Dreams.
I seem to recall it being marketed aggressively, but failing to sell adequately.
People didn't want a Wii NiGHTS. They wanted a next-gen NiGHTS. Not to mention they botched development on that hard, turning it into a Wii game despite being made for PS3/360. All of this forced the game to scale back considerably. Also, I don't remember seeing a lick of advertising here in America (though I believe it did better in Japan? I'm not sure).
Remember 2012's Transformed? Remember the Progressive Auto tie in, and NASCAR promo?
Still didn't sell.
Advertising to a crowd unlikely to play a lot of that type of video game. That would make sense for a NASCAR game, or a Need for Speed game, but not a cutesy, fun, arcade-style kart racer.
Regarding Shenmue 3's KS, you didn't post the numbers. It raised only $6.3 million & had only 69,000 backers, outside of a fan crowdfunder, that's not very impressive. Its a vocal minority.
As Ben said, that's a HUGE number for a crowdfunder. Context is everything.
Regarding your question, SEGA has something Sony doesn't: A unique,ingenuity in hardware design and much better IPs. Why don't you sit down and play Saturn to see what I'm talking about.
I don't see your point. "A unique ingenuity in hardware design?" What does that even mean? Need I remind you the Saturn was a hardware disaster? And "much better IPs?" How so? If anything, I feel Sony and SEGA are on-par in terms of quality IPs.
Also, I own a Saturn. I still don't see your point.
SEGA needs to GROW and EXPAND as a company. And you don't want them to? I don't understand why.
Console game publishing doesn't really make very much revenue. Why should SEGA stay stagnated? Why should they just stay they way they are forever?This is why all of SEGA's brands outside of game publishing are doing well.
I never said I want them to stagnate. All I said was they need to market better. And saying console publishing doesn't make revenue is one hell of a lie. Sure, it's not as much as it used to be, but it's still a multi-billion dollar industry.
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People didn't want a Wii NiGHTS. They wanted a next-gen NiGHTS. Not to mention they botched development on that hard, turning it into a Wii game despite being made for PS3/360. All of this forced the game to scale back considerably. Also, I don't remember seeing a lick of advertising here in America (though I believe it did better in Japan? I'm not sure).
Advertising to a crowd unlikely to play a lot of that type of video game. That would make sense for a NASCAR game, or a Need for Speed game, but not a cutesy, fun, arcade-style kart racer.
As Ben said, that's a HUGE number for a crowdfunder. Context is everything.
I don't see your point. "A unique ingenuity in hardware design?" What does that even mean? Need I remind you the Saturn was a hardware disaster? And "much better IPs?" How so? If anything, I feel Sony and SEGA are on-par in terms of quality IPs.
Also, I own a Saturn. I still don't see your point.
I never said I want them to stagnate. All I said was they need to market better. And saying console publishing doesn't make revenue is one hell of a lie. Sure, it's not as much as it used to be, but it's still a multi-billion dollar industry.
A Next Gen Nights in 2007 would have budgeted for nearly $70-80 million. There's no need to complain about the platform chosen since it was cheaper and had a MUCH larger userbase than PS3 and 360 at the time. And the claim that people wanted a next gen Nights is absolutely false. The first game on Saturn had underpeformed outside of Japan in 1996 and the 2005 PS2 port never made it stateside Nights was virtually unknown to consumers outside of the Sega fanbase. And you must have been asleep in 2007, there was frequent ads for JOD on Cartoon Network,Toon Disney and Nickelodeon.
Regarding Transformed, NASCAR is a family friendly franchise, and Progressive has mostly young twentysomething customers who thus are gamers. SEGA did exactly what they were supposed to do with its marketing.
I won't make the point regarding Saturn's ingenuity or SEGA console ingenuity, because you pretty much wouldn't even understand. Saturn was NOT very difficult to program. It was no more difficult to program than PS2,PS3 and Jaguar. N64 was MUCH more complex. Rather just repeating hyperbole you've heard and read, you'll find that PS1 fell short regarding age when it came to Saturn and N64.(It was weaker and extremely bottlenecked in CPU memory) due to its limited 1 MB RAM and slower, triangler geomterics, lots of PS1 games look horribly dated, suffer terrible slowdown, framerate drops and loss of polygon memory. Believe me, my baby brother and I had a PS1 during 1998-2001. His buyer's remorse came rather quickly.
No, you did imply stagnation. SEGA just publishing games is stagnation. Not expanding their business is stagnation.
No they don't. SEGA's IPs had passion,dedication and are still fondly remembered for changing the face of game design. Who still talks about Ape Escape,Parrapa The Rapper?(Twisted Metal is only talked about seldomly) Let's not even get into the mediocre,intentionally shallow tie in shovelware Sony used to put out on Nintendo and Sega platforms like Cliffhanger,Hook,Husdon Hawk e.t.c. as if to stick it to the both of them for not letting them have their way with "PSX"(Checks age, I see that your a youngin' and thus you would only remember the gaming in the 2000s.)
And the last statement is completely and totally inaccurate. 3rd Party publishers make less than $2 billion in revenue and have assets and market caps around $1 billion.(ActivisionBlizzard only has assets worth $2.8 billion) And no, that's NOT good for SEGA. A company that's supposed to have over $10 billion in Market Capital but since 2012 has only had $3-4 billion. The publishing industry is not a multibillion dollar market. It barely makes enough for market capital growth.
http://www.sega-entertainment.jp/company_profile/group.html (http://www.sega-entertainment.jp/company_profile/group.html)
SEGA Holdings,Ltd needs to SPEND Cash Flow to grow. Pure and Simple and investors would even say that.
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I seem to remember a little Wii killer app called Nights Journey into Dreams.
Speaking of Nights, you're obviously in a very special dream world. No one wanted the Nights sequel to be a tame Wii game, especially after the rumors that the original 360/PS3 versions were downsized to the version we got against the wishes of the development team.
And the game itself was not as good as the original since it had a lot of story baggage that grinded the game to a halt and it was very rough overall. It wasn't very well received by most people and it didn't seem like the game the team wanted to make since they didn't had proper time to finish it. Stop fantasizing and go visit a Night community one of these days to see what we actually want.
And Sonic All Stars Racing sold over a million copies with rave reviews and a faithful fanbase which actually contributed a lot after its release after the massive DLC character poll. The Nascar angle is irrelevant since no one that plays the game gives a fuck about Danica Patrick. How is this a failure in any way? Or am I supposed to be in suit mode and state that nothing below 2 million sales can be considered a success?
Sumo Digital still says they keep in touch with Sega and were thinking of a Sega related Smash clone. I fucking hope they go through with it.
Anyway, Sega's marketing outside Japan is crap. There's no other way around it. They don't put any effort in it and just essentially throw shit to the wall hoping some of it sticks. To claim their problem lies somewhere else in order to be more successful is just being blind to the way they're doing things. But then again, you seem to be stuck in the 90s or something with the NINTENDO AND SONY ARE SHOVELWARE COMPARED TO SEGA.
All of them make amazing games, that's not the point of this thread.
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A Next Gen Nights in 2007 would have budgeted for nearly $70-80 million.
Eighty fucking million??? What world are you living in??? Hell no, it wouldn't have been that expensive. Most games don't even break forty million total. You're accusing me of false shit, and you pull that out of your ass? And man, I was glued to those channels in 2007, I didn't see a single ad the entire time. I don't doubt ads existed but I sure didn't see them.
Regarding Transformed, NASCAR is a family friendly franchise, and Progressive has mostly young twentysomething customers who thus are gamers. SEGA did exactly what they were supposed to do with its marketing.
An insurance company and a drag racing circuit. Yep, those sound like perfect fits for our mascot racer!
Also, the Saturn was a friggin' nightmare to develop for compared to the N64 and PS1. Again, accusing me of false info and you go and say that...
No, you did imply stagnation. SEGA just publishing games is stagnation. Not expanding their business is stagnation.
SEGA as a whole currently licenses and produces films, comics, anime, western cartoons, toys, pachinko, arcade machines, and those are just the ones off the top of my head. How much further do you want them to expand, exactly?
No they don't. SEGA's IPs had passion,dedication and are still fondly remembered for changing the face of game design. Who still talks about Ape Escape,Parrapa The Rapper?
Those are VERY fondly remembered franchises that still get talked about to this day. Parappa especially, people talk about that now more than ever.
Let's not even get into the mediocre,intentionally shallow tie in shovelware Sony used to put out on Nintendo and Sega platforms like Cliffhanger,Hook,Husdon Hawk e.t.c. as if to stick it to the both of them for not letting them have their way with "PSX"
Only one of the games you listed were developed by a Sony partner. Sony Imagesoft only seemed to develop ports for Hudson Hawk and I can't find anything relating to Cliffhanger. Again, claiming me of false info and then this...
Also, the hell does that have to do with Sony's IP's? You think people remember Rare for developing Nightmare on Elm Street for NES? No! They remember them for Banjo-Kazooie and they like. Plus, after Sony Imagesoft became Sony Computer Entertainment America, they didn't really make games anymore. They acquired first-party devs to make games and published them, almost like, gasp!, SEGA got devs to make first party games for the Genesis!
And the last statement is completely and totally inaccurate. 3rd Party publishers make less than $2 billion in revenue and have assets and market caps around $1 billion.(ActivisionBlizzard only has assets worth $2.8 billion) And no, that's NOT good for SEGA. A company that's supposed to have over $10 billion in Market Capital but since 2012 has only had $3-4 billion. The publishing industry is not a multibillion dollar market. It barely makes enough for market capital growth.
You just gave five examples of companies making over a billion and then say it is not a multi-billion industry.
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Danica Patrick and Progressive are examples of marketing, but the issue is they weren't the right kind of marketing. I'll admit, I defended the Danica thing and still will... to an extent. It wasn't the greatest marketing decision, but it was on the right track. I think a Sonic branded Nascar was a cool idea, issue was it was only in one race (guess thats all SEGA could afford). I'm not a Nascar follower, but from what I've read, Danica was a pretty great racer but her switch to Nascar lead to a decline in her career and a rise in her celebrity: http://jalopnik.com/is-danica-patrick-good-or-terrible-an-explainer-1524468266
So SEGA hitched their wagon to a well known racer, but not a very great one in the world of Nascar.
The Progressive ad... really didn't feel like an ad for All-Stars Racing. It aired 3 months after the game's release and aside from Sonic being in an insurance commercial (Progressive is more than auto insurance) it really didn't promote the game in any way. Honestly, I don't think it was an ad for the game so much as an ad for the Sonic franchise in general.
I'm not a marketing expert, but had I any say in how All-Stars Racing Transformed was promoted, I'd have pushed aggressively for video game guest characters just as they tried to do for the original. The original game attempted to have a Sony and Nintendo guest racers, but deals fell through and in the end it was just Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo-Kazooie + Mario + Ratchet & Clank (or whoever) would have been really cool, but with just Banjo-Kazooie it felt very odd. Transformed should have remedied that. Instead we had a YouTube star guest racer and Danica Patrick.
Also, SEGA should have played up their racing legacy in advertisements. Play up OutRun, Daytona USA, Hang-On, and others. Appealing to nostalgia can go a long way, as evidenced by Smash Bros.
They also should have gotten involved with fan sites, rather than YouTube streamers known for Minecraft. I mean, I'm not asking for George to be a guest racer, but getting fan sites such as ourselves and Sonic sites involved would have been free advertising on their end. I know they invited us to the game's reveal in California, which was really cool, but they should have continued the the communication.
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Speaking of Nights, you're obviously in a very special dream world. No one wanted the Nights sequel to be a tame Wii game, especially after the rumors that the original 360/PS3 versions were downsized to the version we got against the wishes of the development team.
And the game itself was not as good as the original since it had a lot of story baggage that grinded the game to a halt and it was very rough overall. It wasn't very well received by most people and it didn't seem like the game the team wanted to make since they didn't had proper time to finish it. Stop fantasizing and go visit a Night community one of these days to see what we actually want.
And Sonic All Stars Racing sold over a million copies with rave reviews and a faithful fanbase which actually contributed a lot after its release after the massive DLC character poll. The Nascar angle is irrelevant since no one that plays the game gives a fuck about Danica Patrick. How is this a failure in any way? Or am I supposed to be in suit mode and state that nothing below 2 million sales can be considered a success?
Sumo Digital still says they keep in touch with Sega and were thinking of a Sega related Smash clone. I fucking hope they go through with it.
Anyway, Sega's marketing outside Japan is crap. There's no other way around it. They don't put any effort in it and just essentially throw shit to the wall hoping some of it sticks. To claim their problem lies somewhere else in order to be more successful is just being blind to the way they're doing things. But then again, you seem to be stuck in the 90s or something with the NINTENDO AND SONY ARE SHOVELWARE COMPARED TO SEGA.
All of them make amazing games, that's not the point of this thread.
Rumors can just be hearsay. Journey Into Dreams was NOT developed for 360/PS3. It was ALWAYS a Wii title and was one of the earliest projects on Nintendo Revolution.
1 million in SEGA's eyes is not adequate. The game only broke even. They expected 3 million for the Holiday season.
So you've decided to be black and white and start ranting on obvious issues regarding Sega of America's notoriously poor management.
Nothing is really going make anything better for SEGA's console game publishing division. It's stymied and has been stymied since 2005.
Nintendo? The Yamuachi era Nintendo made legendary titles with a brand and nostalgic value. The Iwata era Nintendo repackaged the same franchises over and over again with hit or miss results.
Sony? No, they don't make amazing games in my experience. Majority of their 1st party IPs lack replayablity and aren't games worth collecting or recollecting. They sell based on brand image alone, not on quality, not on ingenuity. Not on passion. It's "Invest in us because of who we are" just basic adequacy that gets blown WAY out of proportion.
I don't consider Killzone AMAZING. I consider Twisted Metal a good franchise, but not an AMAZING one.
Danica Patrick and Progressive are examples of marketing, but the issue is they weren't the right kind of marketing. I'll admit, I defended the Danica thing and still will... to an extent. It wasn't the greatest marketing decision, but it was on the right track. I think a Sonic branded Nascar was a cool idea, issue was it was only in one race (guess thats all SEGA could afford). I'm not a Nascar follower, but from what I've read, Danica was a pretty great racer but her switch to Nascar lead to a decline in her career and a rise in her celebrity: http://jalopnik.com/is-danica-patrick-good-or-terrible-an-explainer-1524468266 (http://jalopnik.com/is-danica-patrick-good-or-terrible-an-explainer-1524468266)So SEGA hitched their wagon to a well known racer, but not a very great one in the world of Nascar. The Progressive ad... really didn't feel like an ad for All-Stars Racing. It aired 3 months after the game's release and aside from Sonic being in an insurance commercial (Progressive is more than auto insurance) it really didn't promote the game in any way. Honestly, I don't think it was an ad for the game so much as an ad for the Sonic franchise in general.I'm not a marketing expert, but had I any say in how All-Stars Racing Transformed was promoted, I'd have pushed aggressively for video game guest characters just as they tried to do for the original. The original game attempted to have a Sony and Nintendo guest racers, but deals fell through and in the end it was just Banjo-Kazooie. Banjo-Kazooie + Mario + Ratchet & Clank (or whoever) would have been really cool, but with just Banjo-Kazooie it felt very odd. Transformed should have remedied that. Instead we had a YouTube star guest racer and Danica Patrick.Also, SEGA should have played up their racing legacy in advertisements. Play up OutRun, Daytona USA, Hang-On, and others. Appealing to nostalgia can go a long way, as evidenced by Smash Bros.They also should have gotten involved with fan sites, rather than YouTube streamers known for Minecraft. I mean, I'm not asking for George to be a guest racer, but getting fan sites such as ourselves and Sonic sites involved would have been free advertising on their end. I know they invited us to the game's reveal in California, which was really cool, but they should have continued the the communication.
I don't think marketing was why Transformed underperformed, it was the overall market environment. Gamers DEMANDED SEGA to rush into making a Generations sequel even though they had overlooked Generations for Modern Warfare. They got so desperate that people started making up Sonic Wii U rumors about a Generations sequel exclusive. When Transformed was announced, they used every excuse to ignore the title. EVERY excuse.
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Danica Patrick marketing pissed me off because this existed:
(http://www.sega-brasil.com.br/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/trofeu.jpg)
The best racer in the best racing sport emerging as number 1 and lifting a Sonic trophy on a Sega podium.
I want Sega associated with this
(http://cdn05.motorsportretro.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/in_ayrton_senna_13.jpg)
Not this
(http://i.blogs.es/d5e670/131012_danicapatrickwtf/650_1200.jpg)
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I encountered Transformed by playing a random demo. So I went from "oh another crappy Sonic game" to "OMFG this is amazing" by playing the demo! So I hope Sega does continue what Altus does and that's promote video games the old fashioned way. By videos, streams, demos, and no silly gimmicks. Honestly, the only way you know you want a game is by playing it. Simple as that. I was really happy when they streamed Yakuza 5. Now that builds hype when people see great gameplay. Hardlight doing vlogs on periscope is also very cool. The players have a real connection to the makers and showing what Hardlight can do using a Unity engine is amazing. Having a Lost World community party to hype a game lunch is another neat marketing ploy. I used to harp on Sega's marketing a bucket ton but they have hired some smart people to show how it's done. Dan Sheridan and Aaron Webber FTW.
I love hearing people say they want to take Sega's image and move it beyond a Japanese company that makes Sonic. It makes me want to take those words and rub it all over my body. This makes me hype for the future.
Concerning Sega and their releases. It's just the markets they are in. Sega makes very Japanese games. Only their most Americanized products like Sonic can complete in the console market. Americans on consoles like Western games for the most part. Nothing wrong with that. Japanese people like very Japanese games. People like what is relate-able to them personally. Console markets have shown only the mainstream can succeed.
Thankfully, steam and other digital outlets have shown all genres can succeed on their platforms because their install base is big enough to support them. Plus steam players buys lots of games to boot. So I see Sega doing well on PC shows they found a market that can support their brand of Japanese games if they also do well to maintain proper quality.
I hate seeing players yell at each other over not being "true" fans when markets are moving targets. Sega had a hard time adapting to the market. This happens to every company bar none. I'm glad they realized rushing games have made it worst. And pushed a lot of what they had to next year. It annoys me but I love that they have no firm date for Yakuza 5. Until they can promise proper quality, they are not making any promises. Good on you Sega.
BUT what makes me hype beyond hype is them rebuilding their arcades. Such an epic step in the right direction. The kings of the arcades are coming back to rule the land once more. Sonic and Mario at the Rio Olympics Arcade!? :D They also have two secret arcade games for Iaapa 2015 in November and I can't wait to see them. House of The Dead 5 plz.
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I love hearing people say they want to take Sega's image and move it beyond a Japanese company that makes Sonic. It makes me want to take those words and rub it all over my body. This makes me hype for the future.
Welcome to the forums! You'll fit right in.
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This whole thread just makes me think that people aren't grasping the real issue. Its not that SEGA needs a console for their games to sell, that isn't the issue and its surprising that people are going and discussing a handful of failures from almost a decade again (NiGHTS) and not seeing the real issue here is that SEGA is the king of bad choices. They really are.
Nothing said on this thread makes much sense considering that SEGA has more opportunities now to grow their software but haven't, stating that going back to making consoles (that didn't sell) is the answer is wrong on many levels. Basic business goes that if there are more consumers, the higher potential costumers. So a game (that is good) not selling, where did it go wrong?
Marketing. Notice that SEGA's 'they are doing amazing' all picked up when their ads became legendary. For example the SEGA Genesis in America with their epic campaign of 'SEGA does what Nintendon't' and various other taglines. The SEGA Saturn in Japan (which is the highest selling SEGA console in the region) with Segata Sanshiro ads and lastly the Dreamcast in America (which as far as I know is where it sold best) with its 9.9.99/It's thinking campaign. We are sadly a minority, gamers that look into games and have niche wants that are pure Japanese. The majority of people really buy games because... well their told to on TV and SEGA's software sales really do have to do with the fact that them pushing games in America is virtually nonexistent for Japanese games.
This also has to do with SEGA's inner struggles where they promote their own branches creation and allocate money to promote something they worked on oppose to what is good for the company. Even tho Alien Colonial Marines was a piece of shit, since it was SoA it had more ads ran compared to the superior Isolation (which was done by SOE). Even tho we hate it there is a reason Colonial Marines outsold Vanquish and Binary Domain in America.
I don't think Danica Patrick move was bad at all. I think it was BAD that she was a racer. I think she should have just been the advertising front and had some announcement stuff and they should have hired a famous racer from Japan/UK to do those regions. Big dropped ball as in, having a famous racer sponsor your game isn't stupid, but no one really wants to play as them. Not to mention it really broke what Sumo was striving for and preserving this cartoon like wonder of the franchises with matching styles.
SEGA has no marketing and haven't had a effective marketing campaign in the western regions for a very long time. I think the only 'Japanese' companies to have pulled off the advertising stuff effectively from Japan has been Sony and Nintendo; but honestly Nintendo is just mid-tier now when it comes to ads in America and have gone soft.
Western developers on the other hand are investing much more money in advertising than in development. Did you guys miss all those damn Assassins Creed Syndicate adverts? When was the last time that SEGA had that much advertising for a game? How about Watchdogs? Issue is, Japanese companies can't adapt to this and can't advertise and hype people for their titles anymore since the western publishers started throwing millions and millions in advertising. Its like EA in the 90's only like 10 publishers marching down the airwaves.
I mean freaking Mortal Kombat X DLC had more ads than Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing.
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This whole thread just makes me think that people aren't grasping the real issue. Its not that SEGA needs a console for their games to sell, that isn't the issue and its surprising that people are going and discussing a handful of failures from almost a decade again (NiGHTS) and not seeing the real issue here is that SEGA is the king of bad choices. They really are.
Nothing said on this thread makes much sense considering that SEGA has more opportunities now to grow their software but haven't, stating that going back to making consoles (that didn't sell) is the answer is wrong on many levels. Basic business goes that if there are more consumers, the higher potential costumers. So a game (that is good) not selling, where did it go wrong?
Marketing. Notice that SEGA's 'they are doing amazing' all picked up when their ads became legendary. For example the SEGA Genesis in America with their epic campaign of 'SEGA does what Nintendon't' and various other taglines. The SEGA Saturn in Japan (which is the highest selling SEGA console in the region) with Segata Sanshiro ads and lastly the Dreamcast in America (which as far as I know is where it sold best) with its 9.9.99/It's thinking campaign. We are sadly a minority, gamers that look into games and have niche wants that are pure Japanese. The majority of people really buy games because... well their told to on TV and SEGA's software sales really do have to do with the fact that them pushing games in America is virtually nonexistent for Japanese games.
This also has to do with SEGA's inner struggles where they promote their own branches creation and allocate money to promote something they worked on oppose to what is good for the company. Even tho Alien Colonial Marines was a piece of shit, since it was SoA it had more ads ran compared to the superior Isolation (which was done by SOE). Even tho we hate it there is a reason Colonial Marines outsold Vanquish and Binary Domain in America.
I don't think Danica Patrick move was bad at all. I think it was BAD that she was a racer. I think she should have just been the advertising front and had some announcement stuff and they should have hired a famous racer from Japan/UK to do those regions. Big dropped ball as in, having a famous racer sponsor your game isn't stupid, but no one really wants to play as them. Not to mention it really broke what Sumo was striving for and preserving this cartoon like wonder of the franchises with matching styles.
SEGA has no marketing and haven't had a effective marketing campaign in the western regions for a very long time. I think the only 'Japanese' companies to have pulled off the advertising stuff effectively from Japan has been Sony and Nintendo; but honestly Nintendo is just mid-tier now when it comes to ads in America and have gone soft.
Western developers on the other hand are investing much more money in advertising than in development. Did you guys miss all those damn Assassins Creed Syndicate adverts? When was the last time that SEGA had that much advertising for a game? How about Watchdogs? Issue is, Japanese companies can't adapt to this and can't advertise and hype people for their titles anymore since the western publishers started throwing millions and millions in advertising. Its like EA in the 90's only like 10 publishers marching down the airwaves.
I mean freaking Mortal Kombat X DLC had more ads than Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing.
George, thank you so much for this post. People here need to understand that SEGA doesn't have a mass 3rd party market or enough Western style games to have broad appeal among console gamers.
And you are absolutely correct. Western Publishers don't care about quality,consumers or making great games. They only care about profit and rhetoric. Majority of the Game Sites like GS and IGN are paid by publishers to spread positive word of mouth and advertising and then are bribed to give rehashed shit like Call of Duty and Destiny high scores.
Regarding marketing, the Dreamcast was the last time SEGA had any marketing muscle in the states. Hence why I feel they should take another risk at launching a new home consumer product AIMED completely at PC gamers,Casuals and Hispters like me. They DON'T need the hardcore console gamers because HCGs have stated they don't need SEGA. SEGA should pull a "Wii",only use their Arcade and PC prowess to create something unique and out of this world and channel its game making talent into it from their Arcades and Steam/PC games.
Sure others are going to make excuses and game journalists are going to predict failure, but remember, iPhone was predicted to be a commercial failure back when it was announced in 2006. Tech sites had NOTHING positive to say about it. But Apple proved them wrong. They had a magic weapon SELDOM used "Test Marketing" that paid off big. SEGA can and should do exactly the same.
[/size]
[/size]I encountered Transformed by playing a random demo. So I went from "oh another crappy Sonic game" to "OMFG this is amazing" by playing the demo! So I hope Sega does continue what Altus does and that's promote video games the old fashioned way. By videos, streams, demos, and no silly gimmicks. Honestly, the only way you know you want a game is by playing it. Simple as that. I was really happy when they streamed Yakuza 5. Now that builds hype when people see great gameplay. Hardlight doing vlogs on periscope is also very cool. The players have a real connection to the makers and showing what Hardlight can do using a Unity engine is amazing. Having a Lost World community party to hype a game lunch is another neat marketing ploy. I used to harp on Sega's marketing a bucket ton but they have hired some smart people to show how it's done. Dan Sheridan and Aaron Webber FTW. I love hearing people say they want to take Sega's image and move it beyond a Japanese company that makes Sonic. It makes me want to take those words and rub it all over my body. This makes me hype for the future.Concerning Sega and their releases. It's just the markets they are in. Sega makes very Japanese games. Only their most Americanized products like Sonic can complete in the console market. Americans on consoles like Western games for the most part. Nothing wrong with that. Japanese people like very Japanese games. People like what is relate-able to them personally. Console markets have shown only the mainstream can succeed. Thankfully, steam and other digital outlets have shown all genres can succeed on their platforms because their install base is big enough to support them. Plus steam players buys lots of games to boot. So I see Sega doing well on PC shows they found a market that can support their brand of Japanese games if they also do well to maintain proper quality.I hate seeing players yell at each other over not being "true" fans when markets are moving targets. Sega had a hard time adapting to the market. This happens to every company bar none. I'm glad they realized rushing games have made it worst. And pushed a lot of what they had to next year. It annoys me but I love that they have no firm date for Yakuza 5. Until they can promise proper quality, they are not making any promises. Good on you Sega.BUT what makes me hype beyond hype is them rebuilding their arcades. Such an epic step in the right direction. The kings of the arcades are coming back to rule the land once more. Sonic and Mario at the Rio Olympics Arcade!? :D They also have two secret arcade games for Iaapa 2015 in November and I can't wait to see them. House of The Dead 5 plz.
(Applauds Loudly) Welcome, fellow SEGA comrade. You are definitely a sincere SEGA fan.[/font]
I agree with everything you typed 100%[/font]
Steam is a perfect home for SEGA, VC's re-issue last year proved that and Lost World's Steam port will too.Also, YES SEGA's direction with the Arcade and Amusement business is EXCITING and tremendous. I too and VERY hyped for it and for IAAPA.
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I mean freaking Mortal Kombat X DLC had more ads than Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing.
Spot on .. This has been a issue for SEGA in the west for decades...
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(Applauds Loudly) Welcome, fellow SEGA comrade. You are definitely a sincere SEGA fan.
Not a big issue, but we've had problems with this in the past. Everyone here is a genuine SEGA fan, that's why we're on the forum in the first place... Even those who you disagree with. While I'm sure it isn't the case here, I really don't like the petty 'your not a real SEGA fan, because we don't agree.' stance some people have taken in the past and I just want to nip that in the bud right now.
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Not a big issue, but we've had problems with this in the past. Everyone here is a genuine SEGA fan, that's why we're on the forum in the first place... Even those who you disagree with. While I'm sure it isn't the case here, I really don't like the petty 'your not a real SEGA fan, because we don't agree.' stance some people have taken in the past and I just want to nip that in the bud right now.
I'm referring to communities like Sega Forums,TSSZ and Sonic Stadium.
To me, they aren't real SEGA fans.
That's not the case here. This is the second true SEGA fan community next to Dreamcast-Talk I have seen.
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Theres an interview with someone from SEGA America that I read earlier today. Don't remember the source. The guy basically confirmed Sonic Boom is here to stay and that is what SEGA will be pushing, the new Sonic. and he says it will probably cause older fans to no longer be fans of Sonic in the process. At the same time he says SEGA wants to appeal to older fans sometimes? ??? wtf? lol. Seems contradictory, saying they will lose older fans but still want to appeal to them.
It's really weird, cause that's not the vibe I get from SEGA Japan at all. SEGA Europe is really busy pushing their Sonic Lost World PC port and don't seem to care about Sonic Boom at the moment. While SEGA Japan is all about Sonic Runners.
Basically, each branch seems to be doing their own thing.. again. Disconnected as always, of course, in the end, SEGA Japan / Sonic Team makes the final say. Just all very interesting.
Edit: found it
http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/30/9640190/sonic-the-hedgehog-sega-coo-quality-sonic-boom
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Theres an interview with someone from SEGA America that I read earlier today. Don't remember the source. The guy basically confirmed Sonic Boom is here to stay and that is what SEGA will be pushing, the new Sonic. and he says it will probably cause older fans to no longer be fans of Sonic in the process. At the same time he says SEGA wants to appeal to older fans sometimes? ??? wtf? lol. Seems contradictory, saying they will lose older fans but still want to appeal to them.
It's really weird, cause that's not the vibe I get from SEGA Japan at all. SEGA Europe is really busy pushing their Sonic Lost World PC port and don't seem to care about Sonic Boom at the moment. While SEGA Japan is all about Sonic Runners.
Basically, each branch seems to be doing their own thing.. again. Disconnected as always, of course, in the end, SEGA Japan / Sonic Team makes the final say. Just all very interesting.
Edit: found it
http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/30/9640190/sonic-the-hedgehog-sega-coo-quality-sonic-boom
SEGA of Japan is now in FULL control of the main Sonic series. They're handling it going forward.
Sonic Boom is Sega of America and SEGA of America only.
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Theres an interview with someone from SEGA America that I read earlier today. Don't remember the source. The guy basically confirmed Sonic Boom is here to stay and that is what SEGA will be pushing, the new Sonic. and he says it will probably cause older fans to no longer be fans of Sonic in the process. At the same time he says SEGA wants to appeal to older fans sometimes? ??? wtf? lol. Seems contradictory, saying they will lose older fans but still want to appeal to them.
It's really weird, cause that's not the vibe I get from SEGA Japan at all. SEGA Europe is really busy pushing their Sonic Lost World PC port and don't seem to care about Sonic Boom at the moment. While SEGA Japan is all about Sonic Runners.
Basically, each branch seems to be doing their own thing.. again. Disconnected as always, of course, in the end, SEGA Japan / Sonic Team makes the final say. Just all very interesting.
Edit: found it
http://www.polygon.com/2015/10/30/9640190/sonic-the-hedgehog-sega-coo-quality-sonic-boom
I think you've misunderstood. At no point does he say 'we're focusing on Sonic Boom.' He's saying 'we want to focus on making Sonic game cool, quality and feel like Sonic.' Basically I think he is saying there are like so many types of Sonic fan, who want all different things out of the series but they are going to focus on just a few quality ideas and some fans will be lost...
I personally hope they mean stick to the Colours/Generations formula or something similar.
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I was quite confused by that Polygon interview but am just going to ignore it since anything SoA says about Sonic has usually zero bearing on Sonic Team what so ever. If they want to continue with Boom on the side, fine by me. The show is pretty funny.
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I think you've misunderstood. At no point does he say 'we're focusing on Sonic Boom.' He's saying 'we want to focus on making Sonic game cool, quality and feel like Sonic.' Basically I think he is saying there are like so many types of Sonic fan, who want all different things out of the series but they are going to focus on just a few quality ideas and some fans will be lost...
I personally hope they mean stick to the Colours/Generations formula or something similar.
Maybe I did was quite tired. Still, the talk of "skewing towards the younger audience" and "losing older fans" makes me think of all the Sonic Boom interviews done in the past by SEGA America execs. They seemed to want to replace Sonic with their Sonic. Aimed at Boys aged 6-11 and basically called the older/existing fanbase irrelevant.
Hey, if that is how SEGA America wants to think, fine.
I think the Sonic Boom cartoon is great, but the games aren't at all interesting. In the end though, like Radrappy said, SOA has no influence over the future of Sonic. So I'm not at all worried. SEGA Japan / Sonic Team won't let Sonic Boom be more successful than mainline Sonic.
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Maybe I did was quite tired. Still, the talk of "skewing towards the younger audience" and "losing older fans" makes me think of all the Sonic Boom interviews done in the past by SEGA America execs. They seemed to want to replace Sonic with their Sonic. Aimed at Boys aged 6-11 and basically called the older/existing fanbase irrelevant.
I actually read his comment the same way you did. It was eerie how he talked about "sonic fans," and the "consumer" as if they were two very separate entities. It feels like he's somehow implying that they need to reach a bigger audience than veterans of the series can provide.
The scary part is that from a business point of view he is of course right.
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Going forward we know that Sonic and Sonic Boom are both going to continue... I am happy to buy a quality Sonic title (not sonic Boom) even if it is aimed at a younger audience... Quality is key, most Mario games are aimed at a younger audience but the quality ones, like Mario Kart and Galaxy are fun for everyone.
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Sonic Boom continuing is no different from the days when Sonic X ran parallel to the games. Difference with Boom was they tried, and failed, at making it an all encompassing franchise. At this point, Boom is mainly TV and toys, with a lesser focus on games (3DS and mobile) and comics (the occasional story in the grocery store Sonic digest books).
Ninja Turtles is doing fine with multiple versions running concurrently, we have the IDW comics, the Nick TV show, and the live action movies, not to mention the throwback 80s merch.
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http://www.dualshockers.com/2015/11/02/sega-expects-growth-for-console-games-in-japan-thanks-to-current-gen-consoles-posts-profits/
Good thing the PS4 is kicking so much ass, even Sega is leaning towards more console gaming now.
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SEGA is doing REALLY well financially and is in black:
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/11/02/sega-is-back-in-the-black-despite-lower-sales-numbers/
Just imagine how much more revenue they'll be making in the Arcade Amusement industry.
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Just imagine how much more revenue they'll be making in the Arcade Amusement industry.
“As for the market for amusement centers and amusement machines, which is shrinking, initiatives to expand the player base are required.”
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“As for the market for amusement centers and amusement machines, which is shrinking, initiatives to expand the player base are required.”
Expanding it overseas to create a larger usebase and consumer base, while putting out more must play Japanese Arcade titles domestically(Something SEGA hasn't done in 3 years since introducing RINGEDGE 2.)
That assures an increase in profits.
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Who the fuck reads Polygon?
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Who the fuck reads Polygon?
I do. It's the only gaming news site I can trust for sensible journalism.
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I do. It's the only gaming news site I can trust for sensible journalism.
Are you alright in the head? lol
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Are you alright in the head? lol
I don't read them THAT often. ;)
I occasionally swing by them.
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SEGA's Q2 2015 results presentation:
http://www.segasammy.co.jp/english/pdf/release/20161102_2q_presentation_e_.pdf
The report states SEGA made a profit in both its Arcade and Amusement facilities business.
It also reveals plans to open a "Orbi Osaka!"
Also: Total Assets 518.3 billion yen. When calculated, 518 billion yen is $63.5 billion dollars.
So SEGA Holdings,Ltd is not this tiny little company that can be brought out by Nintendo like young Nintendo fanboys think.