New Sega Saturn Games

[Barry the Nomad]

I'd think at the very least Genesis gameplay through the cart slot might have worked, wasn't the Genesis 2 released the same year as the saturn? It was much smaller I know, though I'm not sure how small they were able to make the internal Genesis hardware by that point.

Ditch the idea of a Genesis 2 and make the Saturn Genesis/MD compatible. Ditch the 32X, shift development of 32X titles to the Saturn (cancel the obviously shitty games). Release the Saturn in 1995 with Genesis support, Knuckles Chaotix as a launch title in the US. I wonder how that would have gone down?

[nuckles87]

With Genesis support, I'm sure the Saturn would have done better, though it certainly would not have won the day. The main issues with the Saturn were it's price point and and how difficult it was to get 3D games running on the thing. The Saturn needed to be an easier console to work with and priced competitively with PlayStation from the get go. Still, Genesis support would have pushed a lot of Genesis owners to sell their old consoles and upgrade to a Saturn instead of buying a new console that didn't have any of the old IPs and couldn't play any of their old games. That was one of the PS2's big selling points, back before it had much in the way of a library.

[cube_b3]

The Saturn was essentially the fourth Generation equivalent of PS2 and PS3.

Both consoles survived without being developer friendly, only difference is unlike Sony, Sega could never afford to be arrogant.

[mylifewithsega]

The Saturn was essentially the fourth Generation equivalent of PS2 and PS3.

Both consoles survived without being developer friendly, only difference is unlike Sony, Sega could never afford to be arrogant.

Sega could afford it at one time; that's kind of how Sega CD and 32X came about. Once Sega took a little more than half the market share from Nintendo, they were pretty arrogant. When the SNES threatened that, the Sega CD roared out of the gate, fully expecting consumers to shell out $299 for an add-on. Then came the 32X....

They really shouldn't have made the 32X. Like Barry, I feel they should've focused their efforts on Saturn. Really, one or the other. Supporting two 32-bit systems, Genesis, Sega CD, Game Gear and Pico. It was all too much, I feel.

[cube_b3]

What I meant was that they couldn't survive with that strategy.

The PS2 had good will generated from PS1. So even though 3rd Parties were suffering with it consumer support was extremely strong. All Dreamcast ports were clearly inferior on PS2 due to the architecture being vastly different. Saturn had the same problems it was not necessarily inferior to another hardware it was just different.

The PS3 on the other hand, lost consumer support as well as 3rd party support. It cost Sony big time. Mark Cerny admitted it and realized the error of the development methodology and has been clear that PS4 will be very developer friendly. Just like Dreamcast.

The key difference here is Sony did not abandon PS3 when consumers and developers started to walk away. They could afford selling the system at a great loss and give developers financial incentives to stick around.

Sega on the other hand had little choice but to drop the Saturn. Sega East really did not want to stop supporting it and in fact supported it in Japan even after the Dreamcast came out because as we all know it was profitable for Japan - just not the rest of the world.

Had Sega been able to allot resources to push the Saturn instead of going for a premature exit things "would" have been different but a dedicated video game company does not have the ability to sustain such expenditures.
_____________________________

As for the add-on's they were not meant to compete with the Saturn. A silly arrogant decision. Read the upcoming "Rise and Fall of Sega" very good book. 

[mylifewithsega]

What I meant was that they couldn't survive with that strategy.

The PS2 had good will generated from PS1.
The PS3 didn't, and it cost Sony big time. Mark Cerny admitted it and fixed it with PS4 but in spite off everything PS3 was successful because Sony continued supporting it. Where as Sega was quickly forced to drop the Saturn. SOJ really did not want to stop supporting it and in fact supported it in Japan even after the Dreamcast came out because as we all know it was profitable for Japan - just not the rest of the world.

Had Sega West decided to push the Saturn in stead of going for a premature exit.

As for the add-on's they were never meant to compete with the Saturn. Read the upcoming "Rise and Fall of Sega" very good book. 

Okay, I see what you mean now with the strategy.

As for the Sega CD and 32X, of course they weren't meant to compete with the Saturn, but that's what they ended up doing. The plan, or so it seemed, was to have a more affordable alternative to the Saturn. They even stated that in an issue of EGM, if memory serves, when discussing the 32X/Saturn. In the end, we had all these Sega products competing for shelf space.

[Emmett The Crab]

I'd think at the very least Genesis gameplay through the cart slot might have worked, wasn't the Genesis 2 released the same year as the saturn? It was much smaller I know, though I'm not sure how small they were able to make the internal Genesis hardware by that point.

Ditch the idea of a Genesis 2 and make the Saturn Genesis/MD compatible. Ditch the 32X, shift development of 32X titles to the Saturn (cancel the obviously shitty games). Release the Saturn in 1995 with Genesis support, Knuckles Chaotix as a launch title in the US. I wonder how that would have gone down?

That's what you use a time machine for.

[Barry the Nomad]

"I came from the future! Listen, this is a list from an internet forum of things you need to avoid doing! Also, here is a harddrive full of data on the next 20 years of game development!"

And then I fade away from existence because in saving SEGA, I erased myself from the future timeline. Nice try, Emmett! Better luck next time.

[Nameless 24]

If SEGA just put in some chips into their cartridges like in Virtua Racing (something Nintendo did), the 32X wouldn't have had to exist, and I am sure the chips would have come down in costs like they did for Nintendo/Capcom/Namco etc.

[mylifewithsega]

If SEGA just put in some chips into their cartridges like in Virtua Racing (something Nintendo did), the 32X wouldn't have had to exist, and I am sure the chips would have come down in costs like they did for Nintendo/Capcom/Namco etc.

SEGA did try that with Virtua Racing, and - while moderately successful - it was just too expensive. $100 for a single game is pretty steep. Nintendo's Super FX chip titles were cheaper than that. SEGA worked on a LOCK-ON cartridge that would've contained an SVP chip, but it wasn't as powerful as the 32X, so they ditched that project all together.

[cube_b3]

That would mean we won't get enhanced Genesis ports on 32X.

We would have had Genesis compatible Sega CD games and it would have been perfect way to give a 2nd chance to Sega CD in the US. It could've should've worked.

I am sure they would've found a way to make VFX ways cheaper.

Either way I can't discuss the - would've should've - things anymore, I find it depressing.

[mylifewithsega]

There was more to the 32X than Genesis ports. The SVP chip wouldn't have been able to produce Shadow Squadron or Metal Head. The SVP - from what I've been able to find out - was capable of 300-500 polygons per-second (16 colors) with an internal clock speed of 23MHz (greater than that of the Super FX-2 chip)...

With the 32X, it had twin Hitachi (SH2) 32-bit RISC processors capable of 23MHz each, 40MIPS, 4Mbits of RAM on top of what the Genesis and Sega CD brought to the table, 500,000 texture-mapped polygons per-second and 32,768 simultaneous colors. The SVP chip can't touch that. Also, when you compare Virtua Racing (GEN) to Virtua Racing Deluxe (32X), it's abundantly clear which is better. The 32X version not only contained two extra vehicles and tracks, but the poly-count, draw-distance and frame-rate were superior to SVP, as were its audio capabilities.

Nintendo sold Super FX enabled games for a $69.99; $30 cheaper than Sega's Virtua Racing.

I don't even know about the whole "Genesis compatible Sega CD game" concept. Sega CD didn't exactly splash onto the scene. It was moderately successful, but - by that point - the 32-bit age was about to hit. Besides, Sega CD may have had some stand-out titles (Battlecorps, Soul Star, Sonic CD, The Adventures of Willy Beamish, Snatcher, Silpheed), though it also suffered from upgraded Genesis port syndrome (Cliffhanger, Demolition Man, Ecco the Dolphin, Batman Returns, Brutal and so on). Not to mention the glut of FMV titles.

[cube_b3]

Pier Solar is the first Mega CD compatible Mega Drive game.

[mylifewithsega]

That's great for soundtracks and all, but that doesn't do anything to increase the Genny's color palette or polygon count.

[Team Andromeda]

though it also suffered from upgraded Genesis port syndrome (Cliffhanger, Demolition Man, Ecco the Dolphin, Batman Returns, Brutal and so on). Not to mention the glut of FMV titles

That's lazy development that said Cliffhanger is way better than the Cart version. Mega CD did improve the Mega Drive polygons and its also gave the Mega Drive scaling and rotation effects as well as the ability to texture map - that alone was pretty advance for a machine made in 1991 . Its just a shame so few developers made the effort to use the Hardware