Romney: "What we feared is happening...the administration has made things worse"

[Happy Cat]

i dont know what hes saying, i don't care, heh

i just know how much fun were having with politics recently here in Everything Else, thought i'd make a topic for it

"What we feared would happen, is happening," Romney said, pointing to the nation's unemployment situation and a series of overseas crises, including in Syria and Egypt.

"The administration has made things worse, not better. It is enough to make some people simply throw in the towel," he added, before offering his own advice to the conservative donors.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=645983

[Barry the Nomad]

Who is Romney?

[max_cady]

-Stimulus intended to bounce back the economy did not work;
-Barack Obama championed the international outcry for Murabak's impeachment;
-Endorsed Morsi, now pretends he has very little to do with this guy's impeachment;
-Lybia and how they messed up with the Benghazi embassy;
-Calls for actions in Syria, instead does massive withdrawls from virtually all Middle East Embassies;
-Basically a huge middle finger to the supossed goodwill that the Obama admin. touted towards arab countries;

[nuckles87]

I am not particularly well versed on international matters, but so long as Obama does not get us embroiled in another needless conflict that costs thousands of American lives (Bush, Johnson), and so long as he doesn't overthrow a democracy in order to install a ruthless dictator (Eisenhower), I'm can't really give two shits. I've also yet to hear how Obama single handidly caused the Benghazi incident, despite the numerous investigations and hand wringing on the part of congress. At least from a credible, non partisan course.

As for the stimulus...well, it is commonly accepted by most economists that it DID work, and that it actually saved and created several million jobs. The issue was that it wasn't big enough.

http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2012-06-06/business/35462388_1_stimulus-work-package-of-temporary-tax-tea-party-caucus

Also a little opinion piece:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/16/opinion/sunday/dont-tell-anyone-but-the-stimulus-worked.html

[max_cady]

I don't understand how the stimulus worked in any significant way, since the currents data is worse than the projected nightmare scenario. (link here)

I didn't say he caused the Benghazi incident, how the administration (namely Homeland Security) handled the matter was less than admirable.

[nuckles87]

You may not "see" it, but it's in the source I linked you to: the CBO estimates the stimulus created as many as 3.3 million jobs. I'd say that's pretty significant.

I've seen that chart before. I already kind of addressed it...but I'll go into more a little detail. One of the biggest issues with the stimulus was that economists underestimated how bad the recession was. Predicting these sorts of things isn't an exact science after all, and sometimes the numbers are just wrong, as they were here:

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/united-states/110729/gdp-recession

I agree with your source though: the stimulus needed to be bigger. The issue is, no economist can perfectly predict how bad a recession is: you can make all the estimates you want, but if numbers don't pan out the way you expect them to, your boned. Doesn't matter what president it is. Yes, perhaps the Administration should have been more conservative in their estimates. Perhaps they should have been more conservative in their predictions to reduce the political blowback. But that doesn't negate the CBO study regarding the stimulus's results. And lets not forget, when the Obama administration tried to pass more stimulus, they were blocked in congress by people only interested in making him a one term president (and some red state democrats fearing for their jobs, of course).

And this is about all I have time for right now, unfortunately.

[max_cady]

Well, the thing about the infamous CBO report is that, while I do concede that economics tip-toes between educated guess work and years of non-linear operations research studies, politically-driven economics are a dime a dozen (I am looking at you, Krugman) and unlike the popular claim the report doesn't actually prove that jobs were saved or created ("saved jobs" is not a term used by any economics major, a political activist, maybe, not an actual economist)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k38AEMjm45w

This fall more in line with educated guess work and pre-established assumptions.

Jumping from that to Obama's relantionship with Congress, I'm sorry if I come off as mean, but Obama enjoyed his first two years in office pratically unopposed (full Democrat majority in the House and Senate), in which he pushed foward virtually all the major policies that we see in effect today and really his policies have changed very little since then.

As much as one might want to kick Republicans for not playing ball, part of the problem also lies in Barack Obama's let's say... narcassistic posture towards any kind of disagreement or any obstacle of sorts. And as far as blocking him in order to be a one term president, that seems hardly an hindrance, because in any functioning republic the opposition's role is to be just that: the opposition.

And to be blunt, Obama's challenges in office in this time period are akin to a mild discomfort compared to the amount of venomous ill will and Twitter-style murderous vitriol directed at George Bush.

I have nothing more to add to this topic.

[Nameless 24]

Reading this makes me want to do a small rant about our shitty UK Government (I apologise to any Conservative members here).

The way he words this is certainly odd, and the US/UK should really solve their own problems in their own country rather than get involved in NATO/EU affairs.

Seriously....the cost cutting is pathetic....and what are the reasons of Tax rises? To pay the rich whilst the poor are taken away their Tax Benefits? Seriously...fuck this government. We're also paying our taxes to the stupid Egyptian chaos...did we ask for NATO money when the UK had riots back in 2011? Lol....no.

[max_cady]

Here's the thing... I don't expect the US, UK to meddle with other countries. But I do beleive in the United States of America as a positive role model. If nothing else, be a positive influence to it's allies and countries such as Egypt.

Whatever good intentions that the Obama Administration had in Egypt with influencing Mubarak's removal from power, the fact of the matter is that the Norsi and the Muslim Brotherhood have turned out to be extremists disguised as moderates and are waging total war against the Egyptian population. Norsi intended radical changes to the constitution which would actually set back things like women's rights and minority rights in Egypt for centuries. Not to mention a powerful PR machine and enforcer squad who's sole intent was to stiffle (violentely, if need be) any dissedents and opposition. None of this reflects well on this administration as a whole, specially since Kerry, Obama and other top people have been very coy about this matter.

And this isn't something that Republicans are parroting around for cheap political pops, this is what the Egyptians are actually saying (and those are not the worse accusations being thrown out there).

It's not just the short-term bloody massacre that's going on, in the long term, having ticking time bomb next to Israel is something that should be cause for concern.

But alas, more pressing matters abound such as the rodeo clown who shocked the nation by putting on an Obama mask...

[Nameless 24]

I agree that it's bad, but if we helped everyone in their own wars, then we'd be creating our own problems elsewhere.

The Spanish are already arguing with us about Gibraltar, an island that we have Sovereignty in. Same with the Falklands.

Your last sentence did make me chuckle though...I guess this is what Politics have come to.

[max_cady]

Interestingly enough, we've been "at war" with Spain over Olivença since 1817.

But back to the actual issue, it's important to distingish between meddling and helping. I've seen countries lambast the US, accusing them of meddling in foreign affairs and the whole "World Police" narrative, on the other hand, if the US decides not to engage in international affairs, they are still acussed of being isolationists...

So, many of these have to be treated in a case-by-case situation. But attempt to maintain some form of consistency. If Egypt goes really bad, it could become a national security threat to the US and it's allies.

And I'm sure that even the more level-headed Arabic community have looked at the ongoing tensions in the Middle East and are most certainly puzzled by what's going on in Lybia, Syria, Egypt and Lebanon and the recent US foreign policies.

Oh, I mentioned the rodeo clown because that was like the phoniest scandal ever. And the most hilarious one yet. A rodeo clown in a Rodeo show in Missouri upset a lot of bloggers because they claimed it was racist. That was a short-lived affair, turns out that the rodeo show has made a habit for decades to mock every single President in office with a rodeo clown donning a rubber mask.

[Nameless 24]

Spain like to put up a fight with the UK and Portugal it seems, since we're pretty close historically and travelled the word to colonise whilst the Spanish just went to South America to take what was left.

Indeed, although when a country gets involved on it's own, they are bound to be called out on meddling. If a NATO force goes however, it appears as help. International Affairs should always be done by the NATO Force, since that is its purpose. America should at least state this if they want to go into Egypt to settle matters.

If it does get really bad, the EU would have to get involved...and possibly neighbouring African countries too.

Yeah, it's sad that those who aren't being extreme suffer attacks and abuse from either sides really.

lol I see. That's interesting...wish we had one here now.

[Aki-at]

Indeed, although when a country gets involved on it's own, they are bound to be called out on meddling. If a NATO force goes however, it appears as help. International Affairs should always be done by the NATO Force, since that is its purpose. America should at least state this if they want to go into Egypt to settle matters..

The issue with one nation deciding it should help govern the world means it will serve it's own best interest, rather than anyone else, or the select few it wishes to serve.

[Nameless 24]

The issue with one nation deciding it should help govern the world means it will serve it's own best interest, rather than anyone else, or the select few it wishes to serve.

Sadly, this is true.

[tarpmortar]

Libs like to jump at any opportunity to claim something's racist, I'm mostly liberal but I can't come to terms with the moral code adopted by the left wing parties hivemind. I can, however, usually support left wing economics and occasional social policies when the numbers are there to back them up.

Really though, most left wing parties just try to sell you some bullshit moral code and act otherwise. I gotta say, at least as far as this goes, the conservatives typically acknowledge their religious and moral influences even if I disagree with them on the basis that I'm an atheist; I respect their honesty on this topic.