Now that Sega is splashing the cash around...

[ROJM]

Isn't it about time they spent some money on finishing SHENMUE?
I don't usually go for this bring back SHENMUE campaigns and usually don't get much involved in we want another SHENMUE style topics. But one has to think that since Sega has spent their money on Relic and Atlus this year, which combined would cost more than SHENMUE ever did, you have to wonder isn't it time to at least look at the option of reviving the series?
Back then many assumed and were probably corect that Sega simply didn't have the money to continue development on SHENMUE. But now that excuse is clearly gone since Sega has been pretty healthly money wise and obviously healthly enough to part their cash on a couple of gaming companies as well as other transactions.

Also the excuse of the game failing can't also be used anymore. Because the game has never really been brought back in the market where it was the most sucessful that being the USA. 
Also strange circumstances has hindered its sucess outside of a Sega console.
SHENMUE 2 sales was impacted for Xbox because Sega Europe had already released it for Dreamcast in Europe. Meaning many fans of the series brought the game or imported it if they were living in the states. As far as Sega xbox sales go it was pretty sucesful as it was one of the few titles outside of Sonic that averaged over 100 000k, ORTA was to my knowledge the biggest Xbox seller for Sega outside of Sonic. And that was good for a system that most Sega games didn't do well on.
The attempts at spin offs or side games in an unproven market can also not be hold against it. SHENMUE ONLINE was never released due to internal problems between Sega and the chinese/Korean developer and distrubutor. And SHENMUE CITY never enjoyed the big push from Sega as they didn't release it but a smaller company called Sunsoft released the game for mobile networks, so it was never fully available for everyone especially since Sega has one of the bigger mobile game networks in Japan.
But the market it was more sucessful in has never had a chance to prove whether this franchise is really dead or not. I think the DLC content featuring SHENMUE character Ryo in SASASR and the fact he topped the poll to be included in the game indicates there is still intrest in this series.
Of course that doesn't mean it will be succesful either. But neither does buying a company with the ammount of money that Sega did for a handful IP that never sells anything beyond 200K.
The fact Sega is willing to do that means that they are finanacially secure enough to do so and are also after the smaller end of sales in the games market (With the niche games Atlus usually makes and sells) as well as the bigger end of the market with games like SONIC. Since that's the case maybe its time to finish what was started by Yu Suzuki on the Saturn/DC and finish what still remains one of the finest examples of Sega game development and gaming that was ever created.

[Barry the Nomad]

But isn't buying companies different than pouring a ton of cash into a single game?

When SEGA buys something like Relic or Atlus, it's a long term investment based on a proven track record, IPs owned by the studio, other assets owned by the company.

[ROJM]

And how much have they made on the many rereleases of old Genesis to DC games that they keep putting out. Those investments have more or less made back their investment tenfold over the last decade. Really lots of games are seen as investments because the potential to keep making money of them is bigger now than it was before.

[Team Andromeda]

But isn't buying companies different than pouring a ton of cash into a single game?

Yes it is. Shenmue lost SEGA money and its sequel sold poor (A killer for any game) . Making a Shenmue 3 would take millions and a huge team and be a massive risk and I really don't think Sammy are up for any of that and rather take the safe route of milking Yakuza sadly . I'm not sure a Shenmue 3 would even finished the game since there's 10 odd chapters left to be told .

It would be nice to see SEGA make a sequel though, but one can understand why SEGA doesn't want to go near the IP .

[ROJM]

Yes it is. Shenmue lost SEGA money and its sequel sold poor (A killer for any game) . Making a Shenmue 3 would take millions and a huge team and be a massive risk and I really don't think Sammy are up for any of that and rather take the safe route of milking Yakuza sadly . I'm not sure a Shenmue 3 would even finished the game since there's 10 odd chapters left to be told .

It would be nice to see SEGA make a sequel though, but one can understand why SEGA doesn't want to go near the IP .

Sammy spent over 25 million on SHENMUE ONLINE before the game was scrapped. Again for the reasons listed above, the title hasn't been given a real chance. And the sequel didn't exactly flop either. But yes true to their word they said they wouldn't keep bankrolling games for the sake of it which of course was the difference between CSK Sega and Segasammy the third party. You have stability but you have less original creative games being put out. But i'm sure that will be an obstacle that some within Sega will change since it was something that was happening between 2002-2003 before Sammy came into the picture.
As for investments, most games are seen as investments all the time. Either creating a game engine so they can make multiple successful titles to recoup the money put into it or rereleasing old games on a periodical basis making a decent amount of cash in a yearly period. So its not that different actually. Which is why when Sega brought the creative assembly they quickly rereleased the older TW games in a box set and budget release they re couping their investment they made on that company which they will probably do the same with Atlus under Sega Europe.

[Team Andromeda]

And the sequel didn't exactly flop either

C'Mon it sold real poor and didn't sell great on the XBox either.

But yes true to their word they said they wouldn't keep bankrolling games for the sake of it which of course was the difference between CSK Sega and Segasammy the third party.

The other difference is games like Shenmue weren't just made to make profits they were made to make you want to buy a SEGA system all that's gone now . The only hope is if SEGA tests the water by making a Shenmue HD remake for the current or next gen systems.

[ROJM]

C'Mon it sold real poor and didn't sell great on the XBox either.

Like i said it was the second highest non sonic sega seller after PDO. And the DC did ok. It didn't flop, i'd say moderate.
 

The other difference is games like Shenmue weren't just made to make profits they were made to make you want to buy a SEGA system all that's gone now . The only hope is if SEGA tests the water by making a Shenmue HD remake for the current or next gen systems.

yes i'd agree with you on that, but really i could say the same with YAKUZA 3 which was obviously used by Sony in Japan to sell the system which of course it did help PS3 units when it was released. And of course the fact that Sega did try to tout SHENMUE as an exclusive game to the big guns but they wouldn't bite.

[Team Andromeda]

Like i said it was the second highest non sonic sega seller after PDO. And the DC did ok. It didn't flop, i'd say moderate.

I'm sure than House of the Dead 3 sold copies on the XBox and Shenmue 2 didn't sell great on the DC, it sold some 120,000 copies in Japan and never made in the top 40 UK charts ; I know people talk the game up and it being one of the most imported game for the USA ever, but given USA gamers hardly import anything it wasn't saying much at all.

yes i'd agree with you on that, but really i could say the same with YAKUZA 3

With Yakauza it's sequel sold way better than the 1st game and that always helps and each game in the series just about sells well enough to pay back the costs and make some money. Sadly you can list all the good reasons why Shenmue 3 should be made, but the money men at SEGA will just look at the dismal sales of Shenmue 2 and what it took and cost to make and then look at sales at Yakuza and say Shenmue had it day and chance.

All we can hope for is for SEGA to remake Shenmue 1 and II in High Def and bring them to PSN and XBox Live and if they sell in huge numbers SEGA will then start to think about making sequel to part 3. But then is SEGA up to making Shenmue 3 - I'm not sure AM#2 had the staffing levels or console piple lines to make such a game and would the yakuza be happy to make Shenmue 3 instead of Yakuza ? . Plus for many unless Yu Suzuki is involved people won't want to go near it , and after the way  SEGA treated Yu, would he want to go back and would SEGA be happy to work with Yu ?

[ROJM]

I'm sure than House of the Dead 3 sold copies on the XBox and Shenmue 2 didn't sell great on the DC, it sold some 120,000 copies in Japan and never made in the top 40 UK charts ; I know people talk the game up and it being one of the most imported game for the USA ever, but given USA gamers hardly import anything it wasn't saying much at all.

With Yakauza it's sequel sold way better than the 1st game and that always helps and each game in the series just about sells well enough to pay back the costs and make some money. Sadly you can list all the good reasons why Shenmue 3 should be made, but the money men at SEGA will just look at the dismal sales of Shenmue 2 and what it took and cost to make and then look at sales at Yakuza and say Shenmue had it day and chance.

All we can hope for is for SEGA to remake Shenmue 1 and II in High Def and bring them to PSN and XBox Live and if they sell in huge numbers SEGA will then start to think about making sequel to part 3. But then is SEGA up to making Shenmue 3 - I'm not sure AM#2 had the staffing levels or console piple lines to make such a game and would the yakuza be happy to make Shenmue 3 instead of Yakuza ? . Plus for many unless Yu Suzuki is involved people won't want to go near it , and after the way  SEGA treated Yu, would he want to go back and would SEGA be happy to work with Yu ?

Why not? Sega lent him the rights for him to do SHENMUE CITY and that VIRTUA FIGHTER mobile card game. As for the sales, well if that was really the case then Sammy wouldn't have invested all that cash on SHENMUE ONLINE would they, in an unproven market none the less. So i doubt that money motivates them all the time in SHENMUE's case. All i know is Sega wanted to partner with anthoer company to do the SHENMUE series and that didn't happen. But the reason for them doing that being money is gone because of the many acquisitions the company keep making, many of them being long term investments that aren't going to make real money for them othr than the short ones like Atlus which would be more instant.

[Team Andromeda]

Why not? Sega lent him the rights for him to do SHENMUE CITY and that VIRTUA FIGHTER mobile card game. As for the sales, well if that was really the case then Sammy wouldn't have invested all that cash on SHENMUE ONLINE would they, in an unproven market none the less

Letting ex staff work on your IP totally outside of your group, is just a bit different from Yu Suzuki working inside SEGA Japan again commanding an SEGA In-House Team.  I don't read much at all into Shenmue OnLine - that project was started when Yu Suzuki new division was known has 'Cinematic Online' and sure Sammy kept funding the project , but I guess that was done party not to upset too many staff and because at the time MMO were starting to make some serious money.

Shenmue 3 and 4 would be a totally different ball game - In order to make a game that would live up to the games and the fans expectations it  would take a massive team and massive budget , more so in the High Def world and the money men at SEGA would need some sort of safe guards of getting that investment back , other than fans or people on message boards saying they'll buy the game .

Also inside SEGA you'll have teams wanting their own game to be given the green light and they will point out that Shenmue had it chance and it failed and cost SEGA dear and go-on about how they new project should be given the green light and like I say do AM#2 have the staff and the console pipe lines to make a console project of that that magnitude and would the Yakuza Team be happy to work on a Shenmue 3/4 if AM#2 couldn't do it , they may want their own game series or have a new IP idea that they rather make ....


That's the trouble with Shenmue mate, there's so many if's and buts and too much politics associated with the project that it's hard to see it being given the green light



 

[ROJM]

Letting ex staff work on your IP totally outside of your group, is just a bit different from Yu Suzuki working inside SEGA Japan again commanding an SEGA In-House Team.  I don't read much at all into Shenmue OnLine - that project was started when Yu Suzuki new division was known has 'Cinematic Online' and sure Sammy kept funding the project , but I guess that was done party not to upset too many staff and because at the time MMO were starting to make some serious money.

Not really because if any animosity existed then they wouldn't even let him have the ips in the first place.
Dream on, that project was started under Sammy's reign of Sega.

Shenmue 3 and 4 would be a totally different ball game - In order to make a game that would live up to the games and the fans expectations it  would take a massive team and massive budget , more so in the High Def world and the money men at SEGA would need some sort of safe guards of getting that investment back , other than fans or people on message boards saying they'll buy the game .

And this is the point Sega has the money. You keep acting like they dont. And if any game was marketed correctly the game would be able to attract new members to the series and not just older fans.

Also inside SEGA you'll have teams wanting their own game to be given the green light and they will point out that Shenmue had it chance and it failed and cost SEGA dear and go-on about how they new project should be given the green light and like I say do AM#2 have the staff and the console pipe lines to make a console project of that that magnitude and would the Yakuza Team be happy to work on a Shenmue 3/4 if AM#2 couldn't do it , they may want their own game series or have a new IP idea that they rather make ....

Well i doubt that would even happen. As for company politics, its not the first time that's happened but AM2 is still the golden boy in Sega so they could easily get a project greenlighted compared to some of the other groups.

That's the trouble with Shenmue mate, there's so many if's and buts and too much politics associated with the project that it's hard to see it being given the green light

if that was the case then Sega wouldn't have bothered shopping the game around awhile back to attract investment. So obviously there is a desire to get the game made. All i'm saying is the main obstacle is non exisistant. Money.



 
[/quote]

[Nathan]

Development started on Shenmue Online in February of 2003, before Sammy acquired SEGA and before Shenmue II was released on the Xbox in the PAL region. It was announced on August 3rd, 2004, and was still being talked about way after JCE (the Korean development partner) pulled out of the project somewhere in 2005. There is a news story from July of 2007 where Suzuki says it is still in active development. So, Sammy was still fully behind the project. http://shenmuedojo.net/new/games/s0preview.html

Also, SEGA should look and see that Shenmue II's ill fate was obviously due to circumstance. The American discontinuation of the Dreamcast caused the many people that DID want the game to import it since SEGA took forever and a day to announce Shenmue IIx. Though even if they had immediately announced it, some fans wouldn't have wanted to wait or fork over more money for a brand new console for possibly only one game.

Here are some sales charts: http://web.archive.org/web/20040620010114/http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~hokora/english/dcchart.html

According to that data, Shenmue II had outsold Sonic Adventure 2 in Japan. And we know that the game was the most imported into the United States...if only we had American and European Xbox sales.

[Team Andromeda]

Not really because if any animosity existed then they wouldn't even let him have the ips in the first place.
Dream on, that project was started under Sammy's reign of Sega.

Shenmue Online was started in '2003' before the Sammy take over and like I said having Yu work outside of SEGA on an old IP is very different from having Yu Suzuki back in SEGA HQ leading a team.

And this is the point Sega has the money. You keep acting like they dont. And if any game was marketed correctly the game would be able to attract new members to the series and not just older fans

SEGA always had enough cash to make Shenmue 3 , but its all about the pros and cons and 1 of the main reasons SEGA is making money is that is slashed its R&D and its SEGA own words it just focus on core IP. Shenmue 3 is a massive risk and you talk about marketing ? That is an area SEGA been dire at be that trying to sell new IP like Binary Domain or trying to push games like Yakuza in the west . 

AM2 is still the golden boy in Sega so they could easily get a project greenlighted compared to some of the other groups.

No you're missing the point is AM#2 really set up to make a project of Shenmue 3 size , when was the last time it worked on a console exclusive game are its pipe lines up to that

if that was the case then Sega wouldn't have bothered shopping the game around awhile back to attract investment

That was ages back, when Yu Suzuki was at SEGA and looking for the likes of Microsoft to fund the sequel . The more years pass the less interest in Shenmue they will be and the less likely it be that we'll have a Shenmue 3 . I bet there's millions of 360 and PS3 owners that haven't played Shenmue 1, never mind the sequel 

[ROJM]

Shenmue Online was started in '2003' before the Sammy take over and like I said having Yu work outside of SEGA on an old IP is very different from having Yu Suzuki back in SEGA HQ leading a team.

That's when Sammy began to take over and the deal finalised by the following year.The project really didn't get full ahead until 2004.

SEGA always had enough cash to make Shenmue 3 ,

And now they got even more money. That's why they should make it.

 but its all about the pros and cons and 1 of the main reasons SEGA is making money is that is slashed its R&D and its SEGA own words it just focus on core IP. Shenmue 3 is a massive risk and you talk about marketing ? That is an area SEGA been dire at be that trying to sell new IP like Binary Domain or trying to push games like Yakuza in the west .

 

That's more to do with SOA inability to do anything right.

No you're missing the point is AM#2 really set up to make a project of Shenmue 3 size , when was the last time it worked on a console exclusive game are its pipe lines up to that

Im not missing the point. AM2 wouldn't necessarly have to do it anyway since the group split from Suzuki to concentrate on arcades while Suzuki had his own team to do future SHENMUE games and that team wasn't as big as AM2.

That was ages back, when Yu Suzuki was at SEGA and looking for the likes of Microsoft to fund the sequel . The more years pass the less interest in Shenmue they will be and the less likely it be that we'll have a Shenmue 3 . I bet there's millions of 360 and PS3 owners that haven't played Shenmue 1, never mind the sequel 

No i'm talking about this generation when that happened. For gods sake keep up.

[Team Andromeda]

That's when Sammy began to take over and the deal finalised by the following year

Well Sammy didn't get any sort of control of SEGA until it bought CSK 22.4 stake in SEGA in December of 2003 . So Shenmue Online did have a number of months being worked on before Sammy came in, but the main work didn't really start until 2004 granted . And sometimes when you've just came in and bought out a group you try not to make many drastic changes early in , much like I doubt SEGA will change much at Atlus , but may in the future

And now they got even more money.

SEGA is 3rd party now and will only spend money, if it thinks it can make it back . Its not that SEGA can't afford to make a Shenmue 3 , it's more is it a worthwhile investment and will the project make a profit and that's a much harder question to answer because everything points to a big no (other than fan talk on the web)

That's more to do with SOA inability to do anything right

Well but this is all the more troubling when Shenmue best market was America in terms of sales. And lets be fair SEGA Japan has had the odd flop now again and didn't really do much with the Platnium games in Games or Binary Domain it's self

AM2 wouldn't necessarly have to do it anyway

That for many fans would start the alarm bells ringing for starters . You know what die hard fans are like they will want the old Team to make it, that made the original games. I mean for many until the day Camerlot make a Shining Force game they're not interested and shouldn't be classed a Shining Force game. Looking at SEGA Japan it seems only AM#2 or the Yakuza Teams would be able to make Shenmue 3 and where the fans would feel happy and safe if any of those Teams would make it 

No i'm talking about this generation when that happened

Nobody would want to go near Shenmue this generation .SONY and MS  just aren't not interested and even SEGA it's self has no interest in the IP and would much rather focus on Yakuza. Shenmue 3 is a hard sell