I just finished reading "Console Wars" and now I think I hate Sega of Japan

[Shigs]

Book spoilers ahead obviously.


I finished reading the Console Wars book and while I think it might be painting Tom Kalinske with too evangelical a picture, I still have to say that all of Sega failings came from the Japan side and it shows. They gave him the job and barey listened to him even when he managed to topple Nintendo in the West with a 55% share for a short time while SOJ still wasn't doing shit. They knew Tom Kalinske was very successful in the West but they would never listen to him out of stubborn pride. Here's a list of some of their acts of spite/mistakes.


Despite SOA doing everything to make Sonic2'sday a worldwide, simultaneous launch, SOJ put it out in Japan the Saturday before.


SOJ forced project Mars (32X) onto SOA even though there were already too many Sega systems on the market and Saturn was release in less than a year.


Kalinske got into a relationship with Sony and we could have had the SEGA Playstation. But Sega rejected it for their Saturn and it's inferior, hard to work with processor.


Same with Silicon Graphics and what would later be the Nintendo 64 system. Kalinske found it first, offered it to SOJ and they STILL rejected it.


Then there's the whole Saturn debacle. Kainski outright said "NO!" and they just hung up on him. He had no say on the matter despite the fact that it was HIM that gave them so much success in the West. Kalinski was originally going to go with a "Sega Saturnday" on Sept 2nd but SOJ thought an early release would help despite not enough systems for all retailers which ended up pissing off a lot of them and the graphically superior PSX going for $299 in the fall.


I wonder if Sega failings of today are still directly a result of SOJ. I mean we barely have any titles anymore and games like Binary Domain which should have been a hit, failed due to poor marketing and timing (coming out the same week as Mass Effect 3).

[ROJM]

Welcome to the club Shigs...i don't hate Sega Japan..but people need to realise they weren't the guys who knew how to make Sega a success...it was the americans really...
You just have to see when SOJ is in charge things kinda go to pot...at least in the west.
I said specifically for years that the 32x was a SOJ idea and not Sega of america..despite what some others would have other people believe.
SOJ not Kalinske fucked up the Saturn launch. I wouldn't call the saturn inferior because it could do things the PSX couldn't but it needed a lot of time to really get a handle of the system and time isn't what a lot of third parties weren't intrested.
As well as the fact that i've been saying for years that SOJ killed off the games that Sega of America had that could had made the Saturn a system to get. All the big popular games that made the Genesis popular in the states were absent with the Saturn..Games that had a following. You add that with no real Sonic game (till the DC) and that system had no chance in succeding in the states.

Unfortunatly because the Saturn was succesful in japan the SOJ thought they knew better because they had several games that was big in japan. Kalinske just was fighting a losing battle.
Sega has always been succesful with a mix of japanese titles and western made ones slapped with a strong marketing campaign. You had that with the Genesis..you even had it with the DC but on a lesser degree..but the difference was that SOJ was running the show with the DC and predictable it went downhill. if SOJ had appointed a maverick like figure who understood the western market as well as the american one, instead of a yes man they put in during the DC period..things would have been vastly different...

[crackdude]

I always thought that SOJ only really cared (cares) about Japan. They don't give two fucks if the games come out on the West or not or even if their decisions make sense for westerns.

They just go for what sells in Japan and offer zero support to the West.

[ROJM]

I always thought that SOJ only really cared (cares) about Japan. They don't give two fucks if the games come out on the West or not or even if their decisions make sense for westerns.

They just go for what sells in Japan and offer zero support to the West.

They had no choice because the west was their strongest markets. In the eighties it was europe with the Master system and with the genesis it was the entire west led by America. Sega systems have always done poorly in japan.
Its only when they released the saturn and it had games the japanese public wanted to play did things change. Then they were out to prove that they(SOJ) could make their system a hit worldwide without SOA or Sega europe. And that failed big time.
SOJ were bastards to SOA back in that period...if it wasn't the executives who were leading the charge against their own subsidary screwing things over it was some of the team members as well...Sega should have capitilised with the success of the genesis but they didn't. in reality Sega was probably one of the few who failed to create a succesful followup to a succesful system..and it was all SOJ's fault..

[CrazyT]

Kind of starts making sense when you look at everything from that perspective.

[ROJM]

Its nothing new..i've been saying it for years..i had massive topic battles on this very subject in here...but most took TA's view on his rose tinted glases look on SOJ. But now the truth is finally out...and no one at SOJ is even trying to deny it or stop the film from being made.
When you have a game like ETERNAL CHAMPIONS 3 stopped, a game which sold 2 million units on the genesis alone...a good seller on the SEGA CD, all because SOJ didn't want any competition for VF 2 on Saturn..then you know things have gone awry stupid and overboard. Something that practically happened with all the other genesis games that was meant to get a Saturn opening like ECCO among others than the message is quite clear. Its SOJ saying to SOA we don't need or want your games anymore. Which was stupid. Even when the creator of EC wanted to include them fo his NET FIGHTER game for HEAT.net, SOJ was playing silly beggers.
Make no mistake that it was no coincidence that those genesis games was returning to DC when SOJ yet again had no choice because of the pounding they got from Sony with the PSX. But of course it was too late...

[RegalSin]

SEGA of Japan is SEGA of Japan. Everything has to be done internally from Japan shores. Anything outside the nation is a no. This is why SEGA and Nintendo, and SONY thrives because of nationalists, who still believes anything outside of Japan are less then human and are monsters. Japanese are for Japanese. Come on down, make sex, eat food, buy our junk? NOW GET OUT, THIS IS JUST BUSINESS.

Basically the same idea about how a Gandhi was greeted by the train conductor, and when he left he was kicked off the train like an animal. The only real way to deal with Japan is ether make them like us, or become like them. Just like Back to the future predicted. YOU FIRED!! YOU FIRED!

Sega of America is not all good. They prevented the Saturn from getting various 2d games or not doing the Segata advertisements??? Also SEGA being Japanese had to side with NEC over any western company. Personally NEC is a great company, and the result was a small western company dying and being reformatted into another company??? I am talking about the NEC power VR.

You shouldn't hate them for that. You shouldn't hate anybody. Hate is a strong negative word.

[Team Andromeda]

Time to get the facts straight RegalSin

SOJ forced project Mars (32X) onto SOA even though there were already too many Sega systems on the market and Saturn was release in less than a year.

Wrong . Scot Bayless and Joe Miller (the 2 key people) both confirmed in interviews and on the record. 32X was no forced on SEGA America at all , But SEGA America baby and they're the one who loved the idea and pushed on with it .   
Kalinske got into a relationship with Sony and we could have had the SEGA Playstation

Wrong yet again . SONY Japan were locked in to a deal with Nintendo to develop the playstaion . Classic American bullshit sales spin for the king Tom.

Same with Silicon Graphics and what would later be the Nintendo 64 system. Kalinske found it first, offered it to SOJ and they STILL rejected it

And god Job SEGA Japan turned it down . Not only did the Hardware ships years latter than what SCI promised - it was more costly and more difficult to develop for that the Saturn and its display was utter shit too - with washed out burly graphics and rubbish colours and no support for sprites and total number of polygons hardly any more than what the PS could handle .  SEGA were right to stay clear, they did screw up with the Lynx chipset tho

Kalinski was originally going to go with a "Sega Saturnday" on Sept 2nd but SOJ thought an early release would help despite not enough systems for all retailers which ended up pissing off a lot of them and the graphically superior PSX going for $299 in the fall.

Tom screwed up with the 32X and the rushed out lauch of the Saturn was his response to lame 32X sales and the PS hype getting massive .

[Mariano]

You have a very funny way to express Realsin XD.

[crackdude]

TA is here, ROJM is here.
SOJ vs SOA thread.

IT BEGINS.

[Team Andromeda]

TA is here, ROJM is here.
SOJ vs SOA thread.

Hey I'm just dealing with the facts of the 32X . SEGA Japan made quite a few screw ups with the Saturn . No SONIC game ready at the USA launch and no Sonic Game built from the ground up for Saturn hardware until it was too late . Also the lack of 3D transparent effects was a screw up on SOJ part , plus the Saturn should have had double the Sound Ram too

[crackdude]

Also, wasn't the Saturn planned out as a 2D console, and latter added a second processor so it could do 3D?

[RegalSin]

It was easier to work with one processor alone for any game programming. With 2d gaming it was even easier. Most games used only one and barely used two together. They just added it in at the last minute.

The Saturn ( as with previous names ) was the ultimate goal of making one game system that could run all games. The saturn itself is backwards with all previous SEGA systems. That is why the Saturn has that SEGA sound.

SEGA basically packed in all previous systems into one package.

The level of 2d on a Saturn is basically no different then an PC engine, but with the uneeded power.
So you basically have a revved up arcade board from 1991, on your hands when it comes to 2d.

The Saturn 3d can probably do the minumum the Dreamcast can do, when put into comparison. It has much potential. In fact in comparison the Saturn out does the PSX stand alone, in various areas. The N64 has huge polygons.

[Team Andromeda]

Also, wasn't the Saturn planned out as a 2D console, and latter added a second processor so it could do 3D

Saturn was always going to be able to handle 3D . Just the way it went about it wasn't to many liking

The level of 2d on a Saturn is basically no different then an PC engine

The Saturn 2D power is leagues ahead of the PC Engine , the PS and ever Jaguar have more 2D might that the PC Eng or PC Fx

It has much potential. In fact in comparison the Saturn out does the PSX stand alone, in various areas. The N64 has huge polygons.

The PS total polygons output is above that of the N64 .

[RegalSin]

The main idea of game creation is to work with as little as possible, and make something huge. You probably do not know the joy the PCE at all, do you? The Saturn is a 3d power horse machine that could even compare to the Dreamcast or PS2. The games that took advantage of it, were mostly the arcade ports. It is like a pie that was already made. Again side by side.

Look at the version of South Park for the PSX vs the N64. Tell me which one is better? That is a decent comparison. Even the Wrestling and Megaman Legends ( yeah that should make you understand. ) Yes the PSX had more polygons, but side by side the games was junkier on the PSX.

The Saturn could have had more games but that was a decision for the devlopers at the time. Tomb Raider was hi-jacked and so was many other PSX games. If more people saw what was coming from Japan, maybe the Saturn would have had an longer lifespan in the west. West was like phuck it, it is too hard, and nobody is buying the system. Where is the CRash Bandicoot??? Heck the Saturn could have had Monster Ranchers, and a Pokemon type game. The N64 life span is 50% pokemon.