What the Saturn should have been before SOJ screwed it all up...

[crackdude]

Fucking rockstar diva sexy man bullshit

[ROJM]

Fucking rockstar diva sexy man bullshit

Yes and because of this behaviour..which he routinly did..it encouraged others coming into prominence in Sega to do the same. Mainly because they could get away with it as Naka did.
Naka gets way too much credit in  Sega history...he never created the SONIC game..just coded it...Sonic Team was just that a team effort although he was the leader but one would be mistaken that NIGHTS and other things were all his idea...but looking at what he does now his games are no where near the level of the titles made for Sega on MD Saturn and DC.
He's never appreciated  what Sega's done for him to be honest. He left Sega the first time around thinking he was too good for them..and then came crawling back...thretened to leave Sega numorous times when he didn't get his own way..had temper tantrums and bullied fellow Sega staff/producers..especially the situation with PHANTASY STAR where Kodama was pushed off her planned PS sequel in favor of PSO and she's never forgiven him since....Blaming everyone but himself for the mess of SONIC 2006 even though he was effectivly in charge..it goes on and on..and then Sega bloody gives him money to start up his own company which only ONE title was ever published by Sega from Naka's company. Not many japanese companies would tolerate or even do that for their employees...look at Suzuki who has done more for Sega than Naka ever will and he didn't get any money to start his own company from Sega. Typical screwed up SOJ management...

[Team Andromeda]

Anyway, good points. I wish that they had never hired that idiot who didn't want JRPGs on the system...since Sony only got stronger when he was sacked from their Department.

To be fair to Bernie, he was left a bad hand by the previous staff and he did do a lot of good for the Dreamcast launch in the USA, where  got most of the fundamentals right for the system launch (on a much smaller budget) . He made sure to buy VC and so the DC had some stunning Sports titles ready to go, had an every effective  PR push and a nice 3rd party line up and even made sure that for a change the base system and its menu screen had zero changes to its look and design and made sure to use Japanese art and the CD jewel cases of that of the DC in Japan . All in all, he did a great job for the DC, but let the Saturn down and he picked a needless fight with Working Designs too.





Anyway the major mistakes SEGA did in the Saturn era was trying to have its cake and eat it with both the Saturn and 32X. SEGA should have just gone with the Saturn and run a single PR and development plan all behind the Saturn. I wouldn't have changed too much with the Saturn Hardware myself  other than it would have been nice for some 'Hardware' support for 3D transparent effects and lighting as that was what really helped most PS games look instantly better , the big screw up with the Saturn design was not to double the Sound Ram or built-in Hardware compression . The Saturn sound Hardware was awesome, but SEGA crippled the design with low Sound Ram and that made most PS games sound better (thanks to PS built in sound compression.
We all know the development tools and libraries weren't the best, but that was just a cop out used by developers. The PS2 tools weren't the best and the likes of the MD and Snes never really launched with development libraries and developers just had to come up with their own. The main stuff I would have done different with the Saturn would be that wouldn't cost the earth  ...

1) Scraped all In-House  MD development in 1994 and move the likes of Vectorman II and so on up the Saturn development . Games like Comic Zone could then have had a 2 player mode added in Ect.

2) With no 32X. Saturn would have had the likes of Star Wars, Doom and VR to help with its launch.

3) Would have had one of the consumer Teams to handle a port of Sonic CD to the Saturn . Get rid of the slowdown, make the 3D section run faster and use sprite scaling (poor than the Mega CD didn't already do it), have the FMC run at full-screen ect . That would have been decent enough for launch.

4) Launched the system when Bug and VR Remix were finished and ready to go and not before .

5) Would have built on SEGA Rally and as soon as the Team finished it , would have had them make a Saturn only follow up (separate to the Arcade) and just build on the game, like Namco did with RR on the PS.

6) . Small thing, but no way should the design of the Joypad or menu system of the Japenese system been changed for the Western

7) Released the white Saturn in the West . It's a think of beauty when you see it for real and much better than the black Saturn, which in the shops just seem to show of dust more than any console I can rememeber 

  Brought out the 1 and 4 Meg Carts in the West.  I really doubt SEGA could have even beaten SONY, but the Saturn could have made a nice little niche for its self with its 2D games and Fighters that used the 4 Meg cart Ect and showed off the system and did stuff the PS couldn't do  and really could have gone toe to toe with the N64

9) On the back of the  RPG hype, it was madness by SEGA West not to translate Grandia. That should never have happened 


10) Would have had the SOR Team make Streets Of Rage IV . Just build on what had been done for the MD for only the Saturn we could have seen huge 2D sprites, massive bosses and maybe even a 3 player mode


11) It would have flopped, but I would have brought RSG to the west . Only to show what the system could do how it could top PS graphics when all the system it used right . 

 

   

[ROJM]

1) Scraped all In-House  MD development in 1994 and move the likes of Vectorman II and so on up the Saturn development . Games like Comic Zone could then have had a 2 player mode added in Ect.

Bad idea..The Genesis was at its peak in 1994...what should have happened was to begin the transition during 1995 but keep the genesis games going..till you stop all operations for mid 96. The MS still lived long after it should because the MD inadvertently helped boost MS sales mainly because Sega made MS versions of MD games. COMIX ZONE 2 or COMIX ZONE 3D  as it would have been called had it gone forward and VECTOR MAN 3 would be the Saturn titles being created.

Brought out the 1 and 4 Meg Carts in the West.  I really doubt SEGA could have even beaten SONY, but the Saturn could have made a nice little niche for its self with its 2D games and Fighters that used the 4 Meg cart Ect and showed off the system and really could have gone toe to toe with the N64

If things went differently..the Saturn would have been the number 2 system in the states and the west. And probably have given Sony a run for its money. All Sega needed was a marketing campaign on the level of Genesis Does and Sega Scream and a spokesman that can sell shit like it was gold. A continuation of games that was popular with american/western gamers on Genesis. And everything else would have fell into place..the strong titles from SOJ arcade ports would have gotten more attention by gamers...the European games that appeared on MCD 32x could have given the Saturn a shot in the arm if Sega continued with that side more during that era..and the SOJ content.And of course a SONIC title that demonstrated the power of the system within its first year. After all Sony got the hype it needed by imitating Sega in the first place before it found its own direction when FF7 hit. If SOA and SOJ had been on the same page..the Saturn's fortune would have been a success. But all i see is a potential waste.

[Team Andromeda]

Bad idea..The Genesis was at its peak in 1994

Look I don't want  to get into any silly arguments. SEGA and the Mega Drive was at its peak in 1992/3 It's when SEGA saw massive sales and as a result, where SEGA itself  grew as corp over 44% in a single year . In 1994/5 both SEGA and Nintendo were seeing decline in sales with their 16 bit systems and games overall

The MD had plenty of 3rd party support. SEGA could have just let the 3rd parties continue to make games and offer good deal on various Mega Drive bundles , while most of its In-House Teams should have been put to work on Saturn games ready for it's launch.

If things went differently..the Saturn would have been the number 2 system in the states and the west.

I really doubt it . SONY were new and fresh  have a nice machine and didn't have any bad habits or arrogance from previous consoles and they also did a great job with getting 3rd party support and making PS development very easy.  For sure SEGA could have really taken on Nintendo in the west though ..   

[ROJM]

Look I don't want  to get into any silly arguments. SEGA and the Mega Drive was at its peak in 1992/3 It's when SEGA saw massive sales and as a result, where SEGA itself  grew as corp over 44% in a single year . In 1994/5 both SEGA and Nintendo were seeing decline in sales with their 16 bit systems and games overall

The MD had plenty of 3rd party support. SEGA could have just let the 3rd parties continue to make games and offer good deal on various Mega Drive bundles , while most of its In-House Teams should have been put to work on Saturn games ready for it's launch.

For gods sake..the sales was around $1,812 in 1994. That's its peak. In 1995 it saw a decline. 93 was the height of sales. A peak is the num,ber it reaches before it goes down. So it would be a bad idea to stop in 1994 and missing out a million in sales.

I really doubt it . SONY were new and fresh  have a nice machine and didn't have any bad habits or arrogance from previous consoles and they also did a great job with getting 3rd party support and making PS development very easy.  For sure SEGA could have really taken on Nintendo in the west though ..   

The point of this topic though if they still had all the things in place and they released things that they should have. I don't doubt that Sega would have taken Sony a close fight as it managed to do in Japan if they id do that. Sega had good will among the fans. at that time even better if the 32x and other systems had not existed.And people rush to the system they know more than the one they don't if Sega had done things properly. Nothing about it being fresh or what the third parties thought..it what the consumers think..and the cards was all in Sega's favor back then. The problem was they never used them.

[Team Andromeda]

For gods sake..the sales was around $1,812 in 1994. That's its peak

Look stop it. I know my facts and its quite clear when the 16 Bit peak was

The point of this topic though if they still had all the things in place and they released things that they should have

Even then SONY were might and had the better 3D hardware and easier system to make games on . I still think SONY would have been number 1 in the West (Japan different matter) . For sure SEGA could have been a strong number 2 and beat the N64

[ROJM]

Look stop it. I know my facts and its quite clear when the 16 Bit peak was







Even then SONY were might and had the better 3D hardware and easier system to make games on . I still think SONY would have been number 1 in the West (Japan different matter) . For sure SEGA could have been a strong number 2 and beat the N64

Yes in 1994 when they sold over a million units. These are facts not fantasy. All you have posted is a magazine that is published after the reports for the first half came in . The results i posted was for that year in TOTAL. Again scanning a magazine out of context and in this case barely readable..to just show a headline that is published during the event and not afterwards when the data would have all come in. Another desperate attempt from TA...

[Team Andromeda]

Yes in 1994 when they sold over a million units

Hardware sales were down and software sales were seeing big declines in sales . The peak of the the 16 bit market was in 1992/3 simple fact of the matter .

[ROJM]

Hardware sales were down and software sales were seeing big declines in sales . The peak of the the 16 bit market was in 1992/3 simple fact of the matter .

No they weren't. But i 've had enough of your wrong facts...so i'm gonna shut you up once and for all on this matter.

[Team Andromeda]

No they weren't. But i 've had enough of your wrong facts...so i'm gonna shut you up once and for all on this matter

Even when people post you facts you overlook them and just continue to live in your own little world. Fact is 1992/3 was the peak year for 16 bit consoles games sales. Still if you can't deal with facts or want to discredit Morgan Stanley then so be it. 

[Nirmugen]

Except that isn't what happened.

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?1343-Sonic-3d-Flickie-s-island-on-saturn/page2


One of the original developers for Sonic 3D, Neil Harding, posted in a forum about how the Saturn Version was maded and also talks about those special stages:

The bonus level was delivered to us from Sega of Japan, and we had nothing to do with the implementation of that (I think it came from the aborted game). The same code was used in the PC version, although it used big endian coding, so every time a 32 bit value from memory was read it was swapped (this meant we could keep all the data structures identical). Since we didn't have the code for the Saturn bonus level, my brother wrote the bonus level for the PC based on the Genesis version of the game. Neil Harding.

We reported this notice in Sonic Paradise, a Spanish Sonic fan site (yes, I'm member) long time ago: http://www.sonicparadise.net/2012/06/un-ex-trabajador-de-traveller-tales.html






So, "The Yasuhara Connection" could be real...


Also, in these same forums, an user bought some CDs from Point of View, a company that was implicated in the Saturn Era, that cotains data from the Xtreme Project, particularly the game engine itself. This is a big deal but he needs a PC with Windows 95 and an specific graphic card like this to decode everything inside:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?54194-Sonic-X-treme-Point-of-View-Info-help-required


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChtlWNIAL4

[Team Andromeda]

The question is why he dropped that? Well...it could be anything. The most probable thing could be that they didn't find a way to move Sonic fast enough and controllable in 3D for the Saturn.

It wasn't dropped it was moved up to DC production, when it was becoming so clear that even in Japan the Saturn was never going to beat SONY . In so many ways that demo of FF 7 really killed SEGA and the Saturn all over the place,. I think after that SEGA Japan just said to hell with it and moved both Shenmue and Sonic Adv up to DC production .


I also think another mistake made in the Saturn era was not helping Lobotomy more when it was clear they were having money issues. SEGA should have stepped in and singed up Exhumed II as an exclusive and maybe made them a 2nd party outfit . Lobotomy would have done a better job handling the port of Half Life that's for sure   

[ROJM]

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?1343-Sonic-3d-Flickie-s-island-on-saturn/page2


One of the original developers for Sonic 3D, Neil Harding, posted in a forum about how the Saturn Version was maded and also talks about those special stages:


We reported this notice in Sonic Paradise, a Spanish Sonic fan site (yes, I'm member) long time ago: http://www.sonicparadise.net/2012/06/un-ex-trabajador-de-traveller-tales.html






So, "The Yasuhara Connection" could be real...


Also, in these same forums, an user bought some CDs from Point of View, a company that was implicated in the Saturn Era, that cotains data from the Xtreme Project, particularly the game engine itself. This is a big deal but he needs a PC with Windows 95 and an specific graphic card like this to decode everything inside:

http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?54194-Sonic-X-treme-Point-of-View-Info-help-required


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jChtlWNIAL4

But that doesn't prove your earlier claim that a major Sonic game was being made for Saturn by Sonic Team. Its just stuff we have gone with before. SONIC 3D ISLAND was never going to be a AAA title. The bonus stuff for games like SONIC R to the SONIC JAM was just initially experiments rather than an actual game that both titles used in their games. A dsire to make a main Sonic game for saturn did exist and XTREME is that attempt. But Sonic Team was hardly att he forefront of that desire as they wanted to make a name for themselves on games beyond Sonic...at least that part worked..for a limited time at least...

[Nirmugen]

I didn't say that a major Sonic game for the Saturn is going to be maded.

I only claim about those leftovers that were reutilized in all the Saturn Sonic Games, nothing more. Why Sonic Team need it to do entire 3D models of Sonic and Co.  and an Special Stage engine to begin with?

Naka focused more on what he wanted, Yasuhara never left Sonic behind, that's why he stayed in the USA to help STI.