The 'Merry Christmas' debate.

[crackdude]

Can't tell if I'm offended or horny by your conversation.

[pirovash88]

Definitely horny, me thinks..

[MadeManG74]

I'll admit, it was me under an alt account asking you back.

I know Barry, I've always known. *tears up* I just didn't want you to hate me.

[Sharky]

If I lived in another culture, I would expect them to celebrate that culture freely, rather than having to change their wording because it might offend some dickhead.

Personally I would wish Merry Christmas to anyone, and expect them to understand and wish the same back. But if I ran a business and I was going to put up some kind of sign for the season, I'd have it read 'Happy Holidays.' because while I get that Christmas is celebrated by the majority here, there are plenty of people who don't. And those people aren't in another culture, or another country, but in their own. They're as British as I am, they were born here and generations of their family have lived in.

But I have had to put up with some of my Ex's Redneck extended family spouting, Jesus this, black people that, Mexicans the other... Obamas a Muslim, Also all Muslims are terrorists and Non Americans are Communists, And everybody who isn't a white, Christian American is stealing Christmas.

[MadeManG74]

Personally I would wish Merry Christmas to anyone, and expect them to understand and wish the same back. But if I ran a business and I was going to put up some kind of sign for the season, I'd have it read 'Happy Holidays.' because while I get that Christmas is celebrated by the majority here, there are plenty of people who don't. And those people aren't in another culture, or another country, but in their own. They're as British as I am, they were born here and generations of their family have lived in.

But I have had to put up with some of my Ex's Redneck extended family spouting, Jesus this, black people that, Mexicans the other... Obamas a Muslim, Also all Muslims are terrorists and Non Americans are Communists, And everybody who isn't a white, Christian American is stealing Christmas.

Um, can we get back on topic to Barry and I having an abusive relationship?
If I must indulge this side-tracking though:

I don't see how 'Happy Holidays' in any way celebrates those other cultures living in Britain, rather than just lessening the importance of Christian Culture. It's just meaningless in my eyes.

If I saw a Jewish run business celebrating Hannukah I wouldn't feel excluded, I would think it's nice they are celebrating their cultural holiday. If it said Happy Holidays I wouldn't take as much notice and probably think less of it as they are just going for some commercial P.C. nonsense instead of actually having any identity of their own. Hell, there is a bakery near me that had the little hannukah candles in the window, I thought that was nice, and it resonated a lot more with me than 'Holiday Pumpkin Spice Latte' or whatever Starbucks was doing next door.


The non-committal 'Happy Holidays' just makes me think 'We don't care about any of you, here's a generic message', but the Jewish specific decoration or greeting makes me think there's actually a really nice significance behind it and celebrates that culture.

Not sure what the Redneck extended family point has to do with this discussion though (not being nasty, I honestly think I'm missing a point related to this?)


More importantly, how do you feel about KFC in Sydney, Australia not serving bacon on their burgers because it's not Halal?

[Sharky]

There was no point to the Redneck bit- I suddenly remembered their whole waffling about how Christmas is being ruined by minorities and went on a tangent.

As for KFC not serving bacon, that's dumb. Why not have bacon as optional?

Edit: It makes me sad that, when Mohammed (or whoever) closed his eyes spun around three times, did a little dance and pointed to an animal at random and decided that animal was 'dirty' he went with the most delicious animal of them all. Sausages, bacon, belly pork, crackling, pork scratching's... oh my. What kind of loving god would make such an incredibly delicious creature and then tell it's followers not to eat it!?

[MadeManG74]

Edit: It makes me sad that, when Mohammed (or whoever) closed his eyes spun around three times, did a little dance and pointed to an animal at random and decided that animal was 'dirty' he went with the most delicious animal of them all. Sausages, bacon, belly pork, crackling, pork scratching's... oh my. What kind of loving god would make such an incredibly delicious creature and then tell it's followers not to eat it!?

At least do some light google work before you go on a tirade to insult an entire religion.
You sound just as bad as those rednecks.

[mylifewithsega]

You love abuse, Barry? That's explains why semmie now lives in your basement.

[crackdude]

Edit: It makes me sad that, when Mohammed (or whoever) closed his eyes spun around three times, did a little dance and pointed to an animal at random and decided that animal was 'dirty' he went with the most delicious animal of them all. Sausages, bacon, belly pork, crackling, pork scratching's... oh my. What kind of loving god would make such an incredibly delicious creature and then tell it's followers not to eat it!?

ahah Mohammed..
Actually if you think about it, back in ancient times pork was a health hazard. So it made sense to consider it impure. When Jesus came around that law was abolished because there was significant hygiene, but some people continued to follow it till this day. Not God's fault at all I think..

I'm sure God loves his bacon

[Sharky]

At least do some light google work before you go on a tirade to insult an entire religion.
You sound just as bad as those rednecks.

Do you think I would really say 'Mohammed or whoever' and actually be serious? On the internet? Do you think I'd seriously let on that there was a single thing I didn't know on the internet!? That shows weakness, hell no, some douche would no doubt jump on that right away! Probably tell me to go do some light google work.... or something!

Anyway, someone's offended? So what? Someone is always offended by something... I'm not going to tip toe around my own thoughts and opinions just because it might offend... Especially if the are not unreasonable opinions, is questioning any holy scripture unreasonable?

If we all sat around afraid to offend we'd still all be in the dark ages of medicine, women couldn't have abortion, no stem cell research, black people and women wouldn't have equal rights and many more great advances in science wouldn't exist... and so on.

As for what I said, well... I don't believe in god, of any sort. Open any religious book and I'll find you irrational hateful nonsense (imo). Or 'sins' that'll seem like they were picked out of a hat, complete with dance and blindfold (imo).

Further more I'd say anyone who believes in crystal healing, star signs, taro cards, palm readers, miracle healers or psychics are easily lead, foolish and haven't got a very firm grasp on reality... OH NO! I just offended another load of people with my insensitive opinions! I hope Mystic Meg was sitting down when she read this!

Many religious people will believe I'll be punished because of my disbelief in their god, Or at very least I will receive some form of punishment after death! They believe these things because their gospel or holy book tells them to. And you know what? I'm not offended! I've accepted it, some people don't share my beliefs... And I'm not offended by that.

Edit: I forgot to add that the 'entire religion' hasn't been insulted, religion can't be 'insulted' individual people who believe in that religion will choose weither or not they feel insulted by me making a joke about how delicious pork is, suggesting it was picked at random as an unclean animal and mentioning Mohammad. No doubt some poor, poor people WILL feel insulted.... Unlucky for them.

Tl;dr, Internet faux outrage is so fucking warn out...

[crackdude]

Curiously Sharky, the bible actually agrees with you in mostly everything you said.

It's anti-racism/sexism, condemns "spiritual" rituals/practices, explicitly says there is no afterlife in the "spiritual world", and points fault at almost all of religion being bullshit.

There's nothing wrong in having at least some knowledge about a book that has been around for millennia and survived all purges (for a reason). Don't just go about what other misinformed people say it's written. The bible is filled to the brink with excellent advice. Not God's fault most people don't bother on reading it and follow religious opportunists blindly.

That's my take on it..

[Sharky]

I took History and Religious studies in School as my GCSE and read quite a lot of the Bible, Quran and other holy books.

I'm particularly accustom to the Bible, my Grandmother would often have me read verses she liked before I went to bed as a child. The Bible IS a good life guide book, it does have sound advice and as with my grandmother it brings a lot of people comfort and happiness. Not disputing that. One if my biggest regrets in life was telling my Gran I didn't believe in god or believe the Bible was truth.... I know I upset her and I wish I had just let her believe I still believed. But alas I was a rebellious teenager once.

But for every good passage there is some outdated and often frankly barbaric bad passages exist too and that's why there is a lot of suffering caused by these holy texts. I personally think they need to be updated for the times we live in.

[crackdude]

Sorry to have misinterpreted you then Sharky..

I believe the "barbaric" passages (mostly present in the "old testament") were written to protect the Israelite people in the past, mostly remaining in the Bible mostly for reference rather than guidance.
But some religions think otherwise.

[max_cady]

I never understood Kwanzaa as a celebration. As far as I know, Kwanza is the name of a river in Angola. It's also the name of the Angola's official currency. I know cause my parents are from Angola.

[Barry the Nomad]

Regarding Kwanzaa, like I said the guy who created the celebration was a real piece of shit. From the LA Times:

"Deborah Jones, who once was given the Swahili title of an African queen, said she and Gail Davis were whipped with an electrical cord and beaten with a karate baton after being ordered to remove their clothes. She testified that a hot soldering iron was placed in Miss Davis' mouth and placed against Miss Davis' face and that one of her own big toes was tightened in a vise. Karenga, head of US, also put detergent and running hoses in their mouths, she said. They also were hit on the heads with toasters."