Majima's Yakuza has a website with an image.

[MadeManG74]

I can see where TA is coming from, since the series is coming out at the same rate is FIFA or Madden games right now (or even faster). It is a bit worrying, especially since I honestly don't see a great deal of change between each installment.

Having said that, they all are still selling very well, and i haven't noticed anybody call the series stale or find it feeling 'lazy' yet, so I don't really have a problem. It sounds like this one is going to be mixed up a bit as well.

[Aki-at]

It does seem the series is quite similar from each installment to another, but they do certain things that make it seem like a bit of an update, for example the battle system in 2, the adventure part of Yakuza 3, again both the adventure and battle system of 4 (In particular, the different fighting styles are significantly different)

It's not easy to just go and tell people how the series has improved through each installment. It's best just to play it yourself, for example you couldn't roll until Yakuza 3, nor could flying objects hit baddies until Yakuza 3, but it all changed there.

I for one await to see what we can get with Yakuza Majima, for one, hoping the co-op mode from the PSP game has made it into here! I'm sure the storyline will be ace though, a throughly enjoyable part about Yakuza is the great plotlines you find in there.

[Sieghardt]

Yeah this loks great and playing as Majima should really shake things up a bit, they said the keyword for this game is "Destruction" so I'm hoping for some crazy heat actions

[Team Andromeda]

I doubt its going to be a shooter and I don't think anyone here is in the 'western shooters are boring' camp apart from maybe Cube.

They can milk it as much as they like if the game continues to get better and better as it has done and theres no dip in quality I don't see the series being 'once great' its 'still great' last I checked.

The only problem I'm getting is that they could be making other IPs as well was the Yakuza series but theres nothing WRONG with Yakuza bar a dated engine.

I'm no saying it be a FPS, I'm saying some like to have a go at the west for endless guns and dark adult games, Yet have no worries or issue's when SEGA does it .

And I do care about milking for lots of reasons . This isn't Fifa here Sharky,  a sport game when just putting in the latest players squads counts for a lot, but a 25 Hrs + RPG. Now you name another RPG, or another team that's able to update a RPG ever year ,with endless sequels ?

Yearly updates killed Tomb Raider has the series lacked innovation and (bar the die-hards) people started to get bored and moved on . Look at what happened to Sonic, That went the easy route of side story spin off's, having new characters in the same game world ( an easy fix to hide the lack of true innovation) and Sonic 3D game had different teams and a 2 yearly development time

Carry on cheering, but mark my words ...

Yearly development times for a single team is a sure way to break any sort of innovation, kill the team will , and see Top staff have enough and leave , and SEGA can not lose any more talented staff imo .
Their current In-House line up is dull and uninspiring enough as it is

[Sega Uranus]

I doubt its going to be a shooter and I don't think anyone here is in the 'western shooters are boring' camp apart from maybe Cube.

They can milk it as much as they like if the game continues to get better and better as it has done and theres no dip in quality I don't see the series being 'once great' its 'still great' last I checked.

The only problem I'm getting is that they could be making other IPs as well was the Yakuza series but theres nothing WRONG with Yakuza bar a dated engine.

I'm no saying it be a FPS, I'm saying some like to have a go at the west for endless guns and dark adult games, Yet have no worries or issue's when SEGA does it .

And I do care about milking for lots of reasons . This isn't Fifa here Sharky,  a sport game when just putting in the latest players squads counts for a lot, but a 25 Hrs + RPG. Now you name another RPG, or another team that's able to update a RPG ever year ,with endless sequels ?

Yearly updates killed Tomb Raider has the series lacked innovation and (bar the die-hards) people started to get bored and moved on . Look at what happened to Sonic, That went the easy route of side story spin off's, having new characters in the same game world ( an easy fix to hide the lack of true innovation) and Sonic 3D game had different teams and a 2 yearly development time

Carry on cheering, but mark my words ...

Yearly development times for a single team is a sure way to break any sort of innovation, kill the team will , and see Top staff have enough and leave , and SEGA can not lose any more talented staff imo .
Their current In-House line up is dull and uninspiring enough as it is

Sorry, but you are just talking out your ass now I think.

You said this with Yakuza 3, it turned out great and was considered the best yet.

You said this with Yakuza 4, it turned out great and was considered the best yet.

You said this with the Yakuza PSP title, but it has features that could easily make it the best in the series, it is portable and looks to have some of the best graphics and design on the six year old platform... Just from trailers anyone can see it is an extremely impressive game.

And now you are saying it again about the latest one that we know literally NOTHING about outside of "Majima is playable". You are looking like you are complaining about guns being in the series, but they have always been in the series with the exception of maybe Kenzan (which I assume has some anyways). Your argument is not fair at all.

I can understand why you are upset with this, I want Nagoshi to work on other stuff too. But as long as the franchise is top notch and only improving, I do not see why you are complaining at all. Blame the economy before you blame SEGA about not having nothing but games that appeal to you, if anything if the economy says the way it is, companies like Konami, Namco and a few others will be gone within 20 years and SEGA will be just fine, because they are have learned from their past.

[Aki-at]

The first Yakuza game wasn't even innovative, if at all. Why would one expect, after 5 titles of just improving the system and additions, we would start to see innovation. Yakuza has never been about outstanding elements that lead to a great game, it was a sum of all parts and has become closer to akin a TV seriel now with all it's plots and characters.

I agree with Sanus, having played Yakuza 1, 2, Kenzan, 3 and 4, as long as improvements are made and the storyline continues to be steller, I don't really mind it, innovation is not always required for a good game (After Sonic 1, the series did not innovate, just improve and it became one of the best series of all time, until Sonic Team decided to completely ignore what made the series popular in the first place)

Sanus brings an important bit about the economy too, the current NPD showing how poorly Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands, Lost Planet 2, Blur, Alan Wake etc shows that we're in real danger here.

[Team Andromeda]

You said this with Yakuza 3, it turned out great and was considered the best yet

I consider Yakuza II to be vastly superior (bar its poor end, which dragged on too long)

You said this with Yakuza 4, it turned out great and was considered the best yet.

I found it rather boring myself, but that was just the demo .

. You are looking like you are complaining about guns being in the series, but they have always been in the series with the exception of maybe Kenzan (which I assume has some anyways). Your argument is not fair at all.

Guns? I have made that point before  in other topics as you well know.

Blame the economy before you blame SEGA about not having nothing but games that appeal to you, if anything if the economy says the way it is, companies like Konami, Namco and a few others will be gone within 20 years and SEGA will be just fine, because they are have learned from their past.

Konami consumer side make profits, have done always , They have Prov Evo and Metal Gear Soild which sell millions and millions of copies . SEGA Japan have no answer to them, what so ever , other than Sonic Vs Mario.
Unless SEGA Japan start to make multi Platform games and game which appeal to the west , then yes it be dead in 20 years time.

the current NPD showing how poorly Lost Planet 2, Blur, Alan Wake etc shows that we're in real danger here.

How well did Red Dead sell ?.  there's a game with far better tech, and far more open than Yakuza . Blur was always going to sell poor, Alan Wake I expected better (but MS gave it no push at all) . Lost Planet II I will admit to be quite supprised about, though I'll bet it sell over a million copies over the next few months .

Summer Time is always a poor time for games sales, and has been the case for years

The first Yakuza game wasn't even innovative

I found it to be quite innovative, blending the Street Of Rage/Spike Out formula into a story drive RPG with a complete adult setting to be a breath of fresh air. I though the Heat moves were hugely entertaining and different enough from other games , and being able to walk around City so well modelled on shit that was the PS2 GPU, just amazing, and SEGA Japan  at its technical best

Fact is there is little new in Yakuza III that wasn't done in Yakyza II. Now emst enjoyed the Tomb Raider games, and for many years CORE were able to improve the tech, keep the quality bar decent , but after the 3rd game, but a few becan to tire of the same old game , just with some simple new move or ability , some update to the GFX engine and only single platform  .

I just seem the same happing to Yakuza . Its not a growing series anymore, far from it

[Sega Uranus]

Konami consumer side make profits, have done always , They have Prov Evo and Metal Gear Soild which sell millions and millions of copies . SEGA Japan have no answer to them, what so ever , other than Sonic Vs Mario.
Unless SEGA Japan start to make multi Platform games and game which appeal to the west , then yes it be dead in 20 years time.

So we are going to ignore the truly terrible sales of recent Silent Hill, Dance Dance Revolution and Track & Field titles? What about how Castlevania games have only just been able to make their money back Yu-Gi-Oh, Frogger and Pro Evolution also have been slipping for years now too. Konami's presence in the whole world is shockingly smaller than it was years back. I would also bet the farm saying that Castlevania Lords of Shadow will be a bomb. Of course they always have Metal Gear, but the same can be argued with Sonic the Hedgehog and SEGA.

SEGA has tons of constant great selling franchises outside of Sonic the Hedgehog. Total War and Football Manager are some of the biggest PC-only franchises that are all that big, they have some of the biggest hits in Japan with Yakuza, Project DIVA and Puyo Puyo. Even cheap cheap cheap releases of The House of the Dead make it high on the charts just about everywhere in the world. Recent risks like Bayonetta have proven successful and with big branches like Marza Animation Planet just starting to take off, I do not see how you could be able to complain this much about SEGA's future.

And I think it is funny you think SEGA will be gone if their games do not start to have more Western appeal or be multiplatform, I guess the same must be true for Nintendo!

How well did Red Dead sell ?.  there's a game with far better tech, and far more open than Yakuza . Blur was always going to sell poor, Alan Wake I expected better (but MS gave it no push at all) . Lost Planet II I will admit to be quite supprised about, though I'll bet it sell over a million copies over the next few months .

Are you serious? Red Dead Redemption might literally be the most expensive game to make of all time. Why would SEGA want to take a risk with this, especially when Take Two is not even sure themselves if the game will be able to make a profit?

Put it this way, Lost Planet 2 cost Capcom a lot of money... A whole lot. Why make something major like this when you can make a game tons of people enjoy, like Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing for a much cheaper budget and one that sells much faster?

I see the same happening to Dead Rising 2 to be honest, though not as bad. I think the sequel is too far away from the first release to ever take off as a major franchise now, especially with much bigger and better releases coming at the same time... They waited too long to get this one out the door.

[Aki-at]

How well did Red Dead sell ?.  there's a game with far better tech, and far more open than Yakuza . Blur was always going to sell poor, Alan Wake I expected better (but MS gave it no push at all) . Lost Planet II I will admit to be quite supprised about, though I'll bet it sell over a million copies over the next few months .

The point was not about the tech, the point was about the state of the industry's sales.

You are using the number one selling game as reason the industry is in good shape in America? If I wanted, I could point to New Super Mario Bros Wii or Final Fantasy XIII as how Japan's gaming industry is in a good and healthy state, it's not.

Summer Time is always a poor time for games sales, and has been the case for years.

That maybe so, but it does not change the fact the correction is finally catching up with the American gaming industry, it was bound to happen and it is happening and only will continue to get more and more severe. The Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands was another  game that bombed, after the last one did over 2 million. UFC also went down in sales. Revenues continue to decline, playing it risky is no longer a good idea.

I found it to be quite innovative, blending the Street Of Rage/Spike Out formula into a story drive RPG with a complete adult setting to be a breath of fresh air. I though the Heat moves were hugely entertaining and different enough from other games , and being able to walk around City so well modelled on shit that was the PS2 GPU, just amazing, and SEGA Japan  at its technical best.

That's not innovation, that is taking existing ideas and combining them together. If what you said was the case, I could say adding the chase sequences in Yakuza 3 was innovative.

Fact is there is little new in Yakuza III that wasn't done in Yakyza II. Now emst enjoyed the Tomb Raider games, and for many years CORE were able to improve the tech, keep the quality bar decent , but after the 3rd game, but a few becan to tire of the same old game , just with some simple new move or ability , some update to the GFX engine and only single platform .

I just seem the same happing to Yakuza . Its not a growing series anymore, far from it

There was a lot done in Yakuza 3, the upgrade battle system, a wider range of missions, a new camera system, an upgraded hostess system that SEGA unfortuntely cut, new heat moves, the chase sequences, a new area added, a new weapon system and weapon creation etc.

And now all this was not innovative, but again, neither was the original game. But if you think combining Streets of Rage gameplay with RPG elements innovative, then all that I've mention are innovations as well.

And again, innovations are not what makes a good game, else Sonic the Hedgehog 2 would not be considered a great game.

[Team Andromeda]

So we are going to ignore the truly terrible sales of recent Silent Hill, Dance Dance Revolution and Track & Field titles?

Nope, Point is Konami still posted profits for the consumer labs . Konami have an ace card, and its not just MGS or Pro, but a successful range of NCl sports games, which has brought in tons of money since the Snes days . Point is , give gamers a game they want,and they'll by it, even in a recession.

Like you say with SEGA, T&F and SH were made out of house , meaning minimum losses

I would also bet the farm saying that Castlevania Lords of Shadow will be a bomb. Of course they always have Metal Gear, but the same can be argued with Sonic the Hedgehog and SEGA.

I bet it will sell over 500,000 copies. As for MGS Vs Sonic. A MGS game isn't made every 2 years , it's always been shipped when the game is ready and quality bar is alays high . Technically its always pushed the host hardware , and is a game that sells the world over .

More gamers will want and look forward to a new MGS game that a Sonic game . Simple facts for this generation

EGA has tons of constant great selling franchises outside of Sonic the Hedgehog. Total War and Football Manager are some of the biggest PC-only franchises that are all that big, they have some of the biggest hits in Japan with Yakuza, Project DIVA and Puyo Puyo.

None of which are a multi million sellers outside of Sonic. That's the difference , Konami have more multi million seller IP, and IP that works and sells the world over.

Red Dead Redemption might literally be the most expensive game to make of all time. Why would SEGA want to take a risk with this, especially when Take Two is not even sure themselves if the game will be able to make a profit

I'm sure 2K have come out said the risk paid off , haven't they . It's sold over a 1.5  million inthe USA alone . 2K took a big risk and invested in a Multi Platform, mulit purpose engine from the very start of this generation and its paying off. Its also taken a risk and spent big on Mafia II motion capture tech.
I'll give credit to 2K , for taking risks and developing great tech, as well as pushing the Online side of things . Things I used to take for granted with SEGA Japan.

Put it this way, Lost Planet 2 cost Capcom a lot of money... A whole lot. Why make something major like this when you can make a game tons of people enjoy, like Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing for a much cheaper budget and one that sells much faster

Well see next set of results if LP II will be a Huge lose maker , if nothing else they've got the best next gen Multi Platform 3rd party engine out it . Sonic ASR?, just what makes you think, that was so cheap ?. It was in development for 3 years and had a decent number of staff on it , That's not cheap . Don't think it was a great seller either was it ?

I see the same happening to Dead Rising 2 to be honest, though not as bad. I think the sequel is too far away from the first release to ever take off as a major franchise now, especially with much bigger and better releases coming at the same time

I'm of the thinking it will sell a million , but not be a Huge hit. I bet you it sell more than Yakuza IV will .

The point was not about the tech, the point was about the state of the industry's sales.

1.5 million in sales inthe USA alone, recession or not .

The Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands was another game that bombed, after the last one did over 2 million. UFC also went down in sales. Revenues continue to decline, playing it risky is no longer a good idea.

POP was piss poor and looked old hat, and offered or brought nothing new to the table . UFC well I'll be hard pressed to notice any difference between this years and last years game . Yet the game that cost the most , was the biggest risk sold over a million in weeks

That's not innovation, that is taking existing ideas and combining them together.

Ok fair point, but then no game is truly innovate since the 16 bit days, because every genre was done to death by that time .
A yearly development cycle limits the team being able to develop and test new tech, new game play idea's and mechanics . That is the case for a sports game, never mind a game has complex as a RPG or Yakuza


How about making Yakuza multi platform , taking place in the west . That move alone will make it seem fresh , with a new city needing to be modelled. Give the team 2/3 years to really make a new game in the series . To me spending upwards of 25 to 30 million per Yakuza  is madness. When the game as limited appeal in the west and core audience of 500,000 in Japan.


That's really going to take SEGA forward at all

[Sega Uranus]

None of which are a multi million sellers outside of Sonic. That's the difference , Konami have more multi million seller IP, and IP that works and sells the world over.

A game does not need to be a multimillion seller to be a hit or make money, you of all people should know this. I think the charts pointing at SEGA being one of the only publishers out there making money at all is proof of this, not to mention they release tons more games than Konami does, by a lot.

My point was that the Pro Evolution series has sold less with each release for quite some time now, and that many many of their franchises have been in a slump for years, even IPs that are known by everyone like Yu-Gi-Oh, Silent Hill and Frogger will never recover. SEGA has some franchises that are going downhill like Super Monkey Ball (which I will say has only had one bomb so far) but they do not have a massive list of franchises in this bad of a rutt as Konami does, and yet SEGA release many many many more games a year. SEGA has a much better business structure and it is a proven fact, just look at the numbers!

I'm sure 2K have come out said the risk paid off , haven't they . It's sold over a 1.5  million inthe USA alone . 2K took a big risk and invested in a Multi Platform, mulit purpose engine from the very start of this generation and its paying off. Its also taken a risk and spent big on Mafia II motion capture tech.
I'll give credit to 2K , for taking risks and developing great tech, as well as pushing the Online side of things . Things I used to take for granted with SEGA Japan.

2K is one of the most well known videogame companies in the world known for losing money, even BioShock 2 - A sequel to one of the biggest games this gen was a huge disappointment in sales. Why would SEGA want to copy their business platform? For your approval? Come on man...

Red Dead Redemption also runs poorly on the PlayStation 3, and it is not really fair to bring Mafia II into the discussion as it is not out yet and might not run well on a platform either. Still there, that is another game that was in production for years that might not sell too good.

Well see next set of results if LP II will be a Huge lose maker , if nothing else they've got the best next gen Multi Platform 3rd party engine out it . Sonic ASR?, just what makes you think, that was so cheap ?. It was in development for 3 years and had a decent number of staff on it , That's not cheap . Don't think it was a great seller either was it ?

Lost Planet 2 is a lost cause, the price is already being lowered everywhere already.

SEGA wanted Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing to be bigger, yes, but this is just my point. It was made by a third party with weak tech on multiple platforms and was most certainly not in development for three years. SEGA planned ahead thinking that even if this were to be a bomb that their losses would be minimal. It was an extremely smart bet and worked out, and guess what? The game sold pretty damn good anyways with a sequel no doubt already on the way.

How about making Yakuza multi platform , taking place in the west . That move alone will make it seem fresh , with a new city needing to be modelled. Give the team 2/3 years to really make a new game in the series . To me spending upwards of 25 to 30 million per Yakuza  is madness. When the game as limited appeal in the west and core audience of 500,000 in Japan.


That's really going to take SEGA forward at all

This is where your point is lost entirely. First of all, you want them to make other things, but give an idea out for ANOTHER new Yakuza? Second, we know nothing about the Majima game outside of him being playable. It could be all of what you said for all we know.

And even then, I do not see the point of it all. You do not need 2-3 years to make a really outstanding game. Some of what I consider the best games of all time were developed in around a years time.

[Aki-at]

1.5 million in sales inthe USA alone, recession or not .

So did Final Fantasy XIII on it's debut month in Japan, that does not change the fact the Japanese video game industry revenue is in decline.

POP was piss poor and looked old hat, and offered or brought nothing new to the table . UFC well I'll be hard pressed to notice any difference between this years and last years game . Yet the game that cost the most , was the biggest risk sold over a million in weeks .

The game that sold the most has also yet to make it's money back if we were going just by American sales, and that's believing all $60 per unit goes to TakeTwo (Which obviously, it does not)

For SEGA to pour that amount of money in a game they need to either completely stop in the arcade development, or cease the development of Bayonetta, Yakuza 4, Sonic Colours, Vanquish and Shogun 2 to have even that level of funds available. Just to make one game. That didn't even make it's development cost back in it's first month of sales in America, despite selling 1.5 million. This something SEGA cannot do, spend over a $100 million developing a game that could lead them to going bankrupt? They are not going to do that again, ever.

Furthermore, biggest risk? Alan Wake took Remedy close to six years to develop and they've come out and said "We've bet our farm on it to be a massive success" the game has easily missed the target set by it within Remedy, the same with Blur, which might just cause Activision to cease Bizarre Creation. Blur was seen to be "The racing game for this generation that Call of Duty is for shooter" Activision was betting on it being a huge success, it failed. In a way Red Dead was a big risk, in other ways these two games were also massive risks.

And then there is Lost Planet 2, a game which has had it's sales targets scaled back twice and even still is looking likely to be another dud for Capcom in the line of Bionic Commando, Dark Void and Darkside Chronicles. But that's not the point, revenues are down year on year, the recession is finally catching up with the industry. Spending the sort of cash we've seen thrown about just not a good idea anymore.

Ok fair point, but then no game is truly innovate since the 16 bit days, because every genre was done to death by that time .

I did not deny that, but a game being innovative does not mean it will not be fun, some of SEGA's best games are sequels without any real innovation.

A yearly development cycle limits the team being able to develop and test new tech, new game play idea's and mechanics . That is the case for a sports game, never mind a game has complex as a RPG or Yakuza

They've kept up the quality of the games with additions that add to the game and that's all that matters to me at the end of the day.

[Sharky]

Konamis Metal Gear Soild is just as milked if not more so then Yakuza in recent years.

[Pao]

Konamis Metal Gear Soild is just as milked if not more so then Yakuza in recent years.

Nope.
The differences and changes between each main MGS game is big, unlike Yakuza (which still use same environmental assets and animations, among other stuff).

Its not milking when there is only 4 main games from more than 11 years, especially when there are big changes each game.

[Aki-at]

Nope.
The differences and changes between each main MGS game is big, unlike Yakuza (which still use same environmental assets and animations, among other stuff).

Its not milking when there is only 4 main games from more than 11 years, especially when there are big changes each game.

No, I think you don't exactly understand what milking means.

For example, Mario's main games have been Super Mario 64, Super Mario Sunshine, Super Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2 in a span of 12 years. Sonic the Hedgehog has had Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic Heroes, Sonic the Hedgehog 2006 and Sonic Unleashed as his main games in 9 years. Under Mario's instence, are you claiming that series is less milked then Metal Gear Solid and Sonic is only slightly more milked? Even though each title is radically different from the last? We all believe Mario is one of the milked franchises in the industry, but with what your saying, it appearently is not.

Just because the main games are spaced apart and radically different does not mean a series is not milked. Just like Yakuza, Konami milk as much as they can out of each Metal Gear title. Not saying the Metal Gear series is terrible or anything, but Konami certainly use it instead of a new title to generate as much income as possible.