SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on October 05, 2012, 11:30:10 am
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Recently footage of a proposed/developed MC Hammer game surfaced
here is a video...
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D43HBg9joZs[/youtube]
But it reminded me of other games that was meant to come out on this platform but never did. I remember from an old mag back in the olden days that Sega had planned CD versions of STAR TREK NEXT GENERATION,COOL WORLD and CHAKAN THE FOREVERMAN but they never got released. And when you read recent interviews of former Sega staff that they wanted to create a Sega CD game based on the XMen cartoon show and Hercules:The Legendary Journeys, done in the format of the Sega CD POWER RANGERS game you kinda wonder what could have been. I mean Street fighter 2, the original was long rumored to be headed towards the Mega CD before it got confirmed to be a super Famicom/Nintendo exclusive/release. If anyone else remebers any games that was designated on the Mega/Sega CD but never came out be free to post it here.
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There were so many cancelled Mega CD games it was untrue and some killer ones like PS IV (shame on you SEGA) and World Rally
The ones that got to me , were the ones that were close to being finish or finished . Games like Flying Nightmares (which looked to push the Mega CD to it its limits) The Desert Strike Trilogy collection, John Madden, Indian Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, Battle tech
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I remember something about a World Rally Mega CD game but i never thought much about it until your post. Shame. It was these games,(not Hammer obviously) that the mega CD needed to really show the customers the difference between it and the MD because unfortunatly many of the early games were just extended cart games with stero sound and as much as i love FMV it wasn't helping, Thunderhawk was a good way to go among others and it was beginning to show what it could do and be a worthy add on system in its own right but by then it was on death's door and those games everyone missed or worse..didn't give a sh*t about.
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I remember here in the states, many of the early games were QTE titles like Night Trap, Wire Head and Road Avenger, or point-and-click games like Willy Beamish and Rise of the Dragon, or - as ROJM pointed out - extended cart games like the Sega Classics 4-Pack. We did get some fantastic games that truly demonstrated what the Sega CD was capable of, like Lunar, Soul Star and Battlecorps. However, that damned marketing machine kept pushing the FMV titles and neglecting others. So not cool.
I like some of the extended cart games though. Demolition Man is awesome and The Terminator is a massive improvement over the Genesis version. I like the Genesis version, but Sega CD has way more action and the A/V is fucking goregeous.
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I remember something about a World Rally Mega CD game but i never thought much about it until your post. Shame. It was these games,(not Hammer obviously) that the mega CD needed to really show the customers the difference between it and the MD because unfortunatly many of the early games were just extended cart games with stero sound and as much as i love FMV it wasn't helping, Thunderhawk was a good way to go among others and it was beginning to show what it could do and be a worthy add on system in its own right but by then it was on death's door and those games everyone missed or worse..didn't give a sh*t about.
It looked like Thrash Rally (Neo Geo) and was meant to make full use of the rotation chip - I was quite pissed it was dropped .
SEGA Japan need to take a lot of blame with what happened with Mega CD - If they had ported Out Run, Power Drift, Super Hang-on, Space Harrier and Afterburner II to the Mega CD where they run just as good as the 3D sections in Batman Returns, Cliffhanger on the Mega CD . I think it would have been a very difference story for the Mega CD fortunes and image , but they made this awesome and powerful add-on and did very little with it
Its also a shame SOJ never ported improved versions of Strider and the like to the Mega CD after the fantasic job they did with Final Fight - Strider with all the speech, arcade perfect speech , CD Music would have been a classic
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Hmmph, were they supposed to even do that? That seem to be just a rumour rather than something that was going to definatly happen. Same with that Captain Commando port or rumoured port reported back in Megadrivefan. Half those games ended up on the Saturn anyhow. I tell you what was a waste other than that. The MegaCD at the time was really the closest system to do gameports of the system 32 titles like GOLDEN AXE THE REVENGE OF DEATH ADDER and even SPIDER MAN THE VIDEO GAME. Those titles and if they had the sense to, came to some type of agreement with konami and Flying Edge/Accailm and the indiviual licencees that had licensed certain stuff to acaliam at that time, they could have brought those Konamai four player games over to the Mega CD like Asterix, Simpsons, GI Joe and of course XMen especially when Sega had that four player game pad around. Of course a dream but that was the failure of the Mega CD, Sega forgotten one of the reasons why people brought their systems in the first place and that was for the arcade ports, there's and other peoples. There weren't enough of them and they would have really strengthed the MCD or definatly got the crowd buying beyond their intial launch year(s).
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I remember here in the states, many of the early games were QTE titles like Night Trap, Wire Head and Road Avenger, or point-and-click games like Willy Beamish and Rise of the Dragon, or - as ROJM pointed out - extended cart games like the Sega Classics 4-Pack. We did get some fantastic games that truly demonstrated what the Sega CD was capable of, like Lunar, Soul Star and Battlecorps. However, that damned marketing machine kept pushing the FMV titles and neglecting others. So not cool.
I like some of the extended cart games though. Demolition Man is awesome and The Terminator is a massive improvement over the Genesis version. I like the Genesis version, but Sega CD has way more action and the A/V is fucking goregeous.
Yeah when you actually look into the story of the FMV with Sega and that whole industry you realise that the Sega CD was the platform that these titles were really succesful on. Half of the FMV like NIGHT TRAP and Sewer Shark were games designed for another system that failed others like Time Gal and Road Avenger were quickly forgotten Laserdisc games yet in the states they were really going out of their way to push this medium when it was clear that it failed before. Its a clear case of when the industry is in love with a concept that the public are indifferent about yet the industry will shove it down the public's thoarts until it becomes a sucess, which is what happened with FMV. It also helped that the people pushing for this medium were also the people responsible for bringing it in to the first place. Depending on your point of view it was Sega's luck that it happened to be the top dog of SOA at the time. ::)
As for the extended carts. I'm more refering to the Japanese side of things rather than the western side of things. Terminator gave you bigger levels, more levels and FMV from the movie itself(Something that BATMAN RETURNS was meant to do but due to legal issues(money) didn't) In japan games like Sol Feace was just the same as the bloody cartridge, in fact there were no difference in some cases. Its was only when titles like SILPHEED Kei Flying Squadron was when my shoot em ups tastes for the MCD actually satisfied.
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Hmmph, were they supposed to even do that? That seem to be just a rumour rather than something that was going to definatly happen. Same with that Captain Commando port or rumoured port reported back in Megadrivefan. Half those games ended up on the Saturn anyhow
This was 1991 when Sprite Scaling was still pretty much the be and end all (with the Saturn it was Polygons) - And if SEGA Japan had put its top team on the task of porting its sprite scalier with Arcade perfect music , near Arcade perfect sound effects (after all the Mega CD used the same sound chip as in Rad Mobile board) The Mega CD image would have been a hell of a lot better and while it would never have made the Mega CD the best selling console, it really would have helped with its sales and rep
You know just to Have Out Run and Space Harrier with Arcade Perfect music and sound effects and half decent scaling on your home system would have been a SEGA fans wet dream back in 1991/2
Yeah when you actually look into the story of the FMV with Sega and that whole industry you realise that the Sega CD was the platform that these titles were really succesful on.
FMV wasn't bad and there's some great FMV games, but SEGA America went to far down the route and spend far too much money on FMV games - When that money would have been better spent on games that really used the Mega CD sound and scaling chips . Its such a shame as SEGA America produced the 1st game that really showed off the Mega CD extra hardware with Batman Returns driving levels - Those levels was doing stuff that not even the Neo Geo could handle and just blew away the Snes mode 7 It was quite incredible to see that level of scaling and rotation on a home system in 1992
Terminator gave you bigger levels, more levels and FMV from the movie itself(Something that BATMAN RETURNS was meant to do but due to legal issues(money) didn't) In japan games like Sol Feace was just the same as the bloody cartridge, in fact there were no difference in some cases.
Sol Feace was a cart game, that was moved up for Mega CD launch because SEGA had nothing ready and kept the project so secret very few 3rd parties had anything to go . Games like Strider had issues on the MD due to Cart limits and the MD sound board - none of which the Mega CD had and it could have handle a near perfect port of Strider with all the speech, better animation ,Arcade Perfect music and sound effects and that would have been really nice for the Mega CD and its users
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Prehaps in 91 but by 92 we were seeing a lot of games on the Megadrive that was equal and in some cases supassing the graphic abilities of the MCD, especially when the 16 cart and 24 meg cart games started to roll in. Releasing old Sega arcade games just wouldn't have necessarly cut it unless it was a game that wasn't out on a system at that time or something that needed a better port. DYNAMITE DUX and POWERDRIFT and probably a couple of others may have worked within the launch year but after that they needed as much current arcade ports of that era than they needed older games. If it was up to me it had to be a mixture of older Sega arcade games that weren't ported or needed a better port,(and no OUT RUN or AFTERBURNER totally overdone even back then) third party arcade games that never got ported like Shadow Warriors and , with the arcade games of that time that could easily be mimiced on mega CD like the Konanmi 4 player arcade titles. But of course that never ever would happen on a sega system....
As for Sol feace, it wasn't just Sol feace it was quite a significant ammount of titles that were extended cart games which all in all made the MCD look bad in its first year. Thank goodness for Lunar and 3x3 EYES.
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Prehaps in 91 but by 92 we were seeing a lot of games on the Megadrive that was equal and in some cases supassing the graphic abilities of the MCD, especially when the 16 cart and 24 meg cart games started to roll in.
To a point, but OutRun and Super Hang-On were miles off their Arcade counter parts . The Mega CD could have nailed the sound (it had a far better sound chip) and could have give us scaling which would have lifted it above even the Sharp or FM Town ports - In 1991/2 it would have been a big deal
As for Sol feace, it wasn't just Sol feace it was quite a significant ammount of titles that were extended cart games which all in all made the MCD look bad in its first yea
In Japan yes, but a lot of that was SEGA's own doing and thank for GameArts and Lunar . The 1st year in America and Europe was little bit different with some games like Jaguar XJ220 and Batman Returns really showing what the system could do
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To a point, but OutRun and Super Hang-On were miles off their Arcade counter parts . The Mega CD could have nailed the sound (it had a far better sound chip) and could have give us scaling which would have lifted it above even the Sharp or FM Town ports - In 1991/2 it would have been a big deal
Would it? Nobody was demanding to see another port of those games during the early/mid
nineties, they all wanted to see Final Fight, Streetfighter or one of the other latest arcade games ported to the MD.
In Japan yes, but a lot of that was SEGA's own doing and thank for GameArts and Lunar . The 1st year in America and Europe was little bit different with some games like Jaguar XJ220 and Batman Returns really showing what the system could do
Never said it wasn't sega's doing, but most of the other third parties obviously decided to follow the leader in that regard and ruined what should have been a stand out first year for the MCD in japan. Ayt least it improved with the US and European debuts but that initself had its own problems as well.
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Would it? Nobody was demanding to see another port of those games during the early/mid
Yes they were , That's why many were happy to at last play perfect conversions on the Saturn. It wouldn't have sold the Mega CD to the masses, but having great ports of OutRun, Power Drift on the system would have really helped with its image and made SEGA fans rather happy and that what SEGA should have done
but most of the other third parties obviously decided to follow the leader in that regard and ruined what should have been a stand out first year
The maker of the system need to produce a game for the system that at least shows off some of the system functions. SEGA Japan didn't even do that. Its a shame because the Mega CD unti was such a powerful piece of Hardware for its time and way better than the PC-Eng CD Rom2
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Yes they were , That's why many were happy to at last play perfect conversions on the Saturn. It wouldn't have sold the Mega CD to the masses, but having great ports of OutRun, Power Drift on the system would have really helped with its image and made SEGA fans rather happy and that what SEGA should have done
They weren't mate, During the MD era most people were happy with seeing the latest arcade ports or new games from Sega or other parties. We are talking about the era especially in the first few years of the genesis and the begining of the Nineties decade where from 88-94 we had back to back arcade hits that not only every fan was clamouring for but the console companies as well. I remember even now the reaction that OUTRUN had on the MD. Most of it was because it looked shoody, a lot of it was a reminder that Sega was losing out in getting the big games thanks to nintendo's exclusive party deal. It was just coming off as third best at that time. The lucky thing was that Sega own original MD games and that of their third parties were able to compete with what was on offer. But when they had quiet months/periods and titles like OR came along? No one was happy.The truth is those games were done to death on the master system, TO DEATH. The sequels like AFTERBURNER 2 and SPACE HARRIER 2 while great for the MD weren't big sellers and were quickly overshadowered by the likes of SUPER SHINOBI. Not saying ports were never in demand but people wanted the ports to the latest games and not what was at that period 3-4 year old titles. Which was why the games that was ported from Sega of that time like GOLDEN AXE and ALtered Beast were more popular among megadrive owners. Sega didn't release the saturn Sega Ages line due to demand either (morelike filling in) but it was during that time people could see a great port of an old game and moreor less push that side of vintage rereleases market. But that whole idea didn't exist back in the early nineties because not a lot of people were intrested in them.
The maker of the system need to produce a game for the system that at least shows off some of the system functions. SEGA Japan didn't even do that. Its a shame because the Mega CD unti was such a powerful piece of Hardware for its time and way better than the PC-Eng CD Rom2
True, i wouldn't say SPACE HARRIER would have been the best choice though, more likely games like POWERDRIFT would have been idea since that has everything to show off what the MCD can do. They did need a lot of ports of arcade games to kick start the MCD like they did with the MD.
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We are talking about the era especially in the first few years of the genesis and the begining of the Nineties decade where from
People (ie SEGA Fans) still claimer for Arcade ports to this day, Fan still want SEGA to do better ports of the likes of SEGA RAllY II , House Of the Dead and hope one day SEGA will port Scud Racer to the home and these are decades old Coin ups. Even in the early 90's they were plenty of SEGA fans hoping for better ports of SEGA sprite scalier to systems like the Mega CD and Saturn .
I remember even now the reaction that OUTRUN had on the MD. Most of it was because it looked shoody
It looked great in the screen shoots when you saw it moving and heard it , it was a different matter ( it didn't help that the PC Eng version looked better too). Mega CD had the Hardware to handle the Sound perfectly and the Hardware to give the best home version in terms of scaling
In 1991/2 it was have a been a big deal to the Sega users This wouldn't make the Mega CD or its games massive sellers, but it would have pleased SEGA core user - The ones who buy SEGA Hardware with the thinking that it SEGA would port Arcade games to their systems and helped greatly with Mega CD image .
Sega didn't release the saturn Sega Ages line due to demand either
It was brought to both the USA and UK. The latter line up wasn't brought but a lot of that is down to the lack of any Saturn market consumer in the West
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It looked great in the screen shoots when you saw it moving and heard it , it was a different matter ( it didn't help that the PC Eng version looked better too). Mega CD had the Hardware to handle the Sound perfectly and the Hardware to give the best home version in terms of scaling
I think you're both off on this one. Out Run on the Genesis is really a pleasant surprise. It was an unexpected release being a port of a game several years old, and it plays nice and smooth considering the limitations of the hardware. PC Engine Out Run has messed up graphics when there is a fork in the road, and the Ferrari looks tiny, like a compact car. The Gen/MD version is definitely the best version until you get to the Saturn one. If it had been on the CD, it would have been almost perfect, although I expect it would have had a lower framerate than the arcade. As for how much demand there was for it, well, they never reissued it in the Sega Classics reprint series, so that tells you something. Brawlers and fighting games were becoming the top sellers in that era.
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People (ie SEGA Fans) still claimer for Arcade ports to this day, Fan still want SEGA to do better ports of the likes of SEGA RAllY II , House Of the Dead and hope one day SEGA will port Scud Racer to the home and these are decades old Coin ups. Even in the early 90's they were plenty of SEGA fans hoping for better ports of SEGA sprite scalier to systems like the Mega CD and Saturn .
Of course Sega fans clamour for arcade ports, who doesnt but its usually of ports for games that's never been released on console before. Half if not most of the sega fan base wanted to see ports of ARABIAN FIGHT, GOLDEN AXE THE REVENGE OF DEATH ADDER,POWERDRIFT, since the MCD would have been able to do a bit of justice to that game or games like DESERT TANK and many more for the Saturn. What most of us didn't want to see was another tired port of a game everyone played to death already especially during the MD era. Your not looking at the context of the time, it was a different market back then, it wasn't the connesseuir appreation of ports of classic titles as it is now, that really started during the Saturn era when i shall add the Sega gamer became a bit older. But during the MD era and looking at the diverse base that made up the userbase? Definatly not a demand for seeing that game, from the magazines maybe(but they didn't say much either) but definatly not from the fans.
It looked great in the screen shoots when you saw it moving and heard it , it was a different matter ( it didn't help that the PC Eng version looked better too). Mega CD had the Hardware to handle the Sound perfectly and the Hardware to give the best home version in terms of scaling
Not disputing that but like i said no one wanted to see antother OUTRUN. That was proved with the dismal returns of the MD version.
In 1991/2 it was have a been a big deal to the Sega users This wouldn't make the Mega CD or its games massive sellers, but it would have pleased SEGA core user - The ones who buy SEGA Hardware with the thinking that it SEGA would port Arcade games to their systems and helped greatly with Mega CD image .
Streetfighter 2 would have been a great deal to sega MD owners, not a port of OUTRUN.
Yes arcade ports would have been a good deal but only of games that Sega had recently created at the time not with old tired ports. That's why ALTERED BEAST was and still is remebered to this day and its not even a great game. But at the time it was Sega's most recent arcade game to be ported. Exactly the same with GOLDEN AXE. Or even WONDERBOY IN MONSTER'S LAIR. Because the new arcade games are the ones that people want to play on their system which happened to be the MD. Exactly like it was when the master system had the ports of a lot of the recent games people saw at the arcades during the MS era in the UK like AFTERBURNER, THUNDERBLADE and OUTRUN. Now what you saying is correct that arcade ports do help the system but from the examples i gave you, the games mentioned at that time were relativly new titles from the arcades from their respective era. The MCD unfortunatly didn't get the chance to carry on that pattern/leagacy and it really should have. But not with games that people had already played and to be honest with you were quite bored of during that period.
The MCD porting a game like OUTRUN during that period would also enforce the point that sega didn't have any new games for the system. Something they couldn't afford to do when up against Nintendo and the SNES they needed the latest games and games the SNES couldn't do. (Of course it didn't help in the long run) but titles like TIME GAL SILPHEED and even STARBLADE did set the MCD apart but it didn't do it soon enough IE they weren't the games that were alvailable straight away.
It was brought to both the USA and UK. The latter line up wasn't brought but a lot of that is down to the lack of any Saturn market consumer in the West
The same reason it was done in japan, fill the gaps, celebrate an anniversary, but they did such a fine good job of it with attention to care and pure love of it it became succesful and strong brand in its o wn right. And luckly it seemed to inspire others to do collections of their own like Capcom's Wonder 3 collection (which was a game that could have easily been released on the MCD.)that it became initself an industry, why because they mixed the ports of classic titles and titles never released. That's why the Sega Ages worked primarly and why the intrest grew to the point it is now.
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I think you're both off on this one. Out Run on the Genesis is really a pleasant surprise. It was an unexpected release being a port of a game several years old, and it plays nice and smooth considering the limitations of the hardware. PC Engine Out Run has messed up graphics when there is a fork in the road, and the Ferrari looks tiny, like a compact car. The Gen/MD version is definitely the best version until you get to the Saturn one. If it had been on the CD, it would have been almost perfect, although I expect it would have had a lower framerate than the arcade. As for how much demand there was for it, well, they never reissued it in the Sega Classics reprint series, so that tells you something. Brawlers and fighting games were becoming the top sellers in that era.
OUTRUN was a horrible game on the MD, you mentioned the limitations of the hardware well that's the point and its a good one, at that same time as OUTRUN we were seeing titles like SOR which frankly was the total package in terms of graphics, playability and sound and other titles that was just prettier to the eye and ear. Compared to that and what was being released for the MD at that time between 90/91, OUTRUN was old hat and to many it didn't look good. Especially when you had the likes of Wolf team and Treasure pulling out programming tricks for their MD games around the corner in 92-93. OR didn't have a chance. Even if it had things that made it a good port for you at that time it didn't because of the reasons i just mentioned. I think OUTRUNNERS was an ok port for MD considering the original. If anything should have had a MCD port from Sega it was TURBO OUTRUN but of course that didn't happen.
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Even if it had things that made it a good port for you at that time it didn't because of the reasons i just mentioned.
:o Can't argue with that logic, folks.
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:o Can't argue with that logic, folks.
No you cant. ;D
Anyway i'm going by memory, all i remember was how it looked and sounded at the time. I haven't played it now for years so i can't say how it stands up today compared to other MD titles. Maybe it isn't as bad as it seemed back then but i somehow doubt it. But like i said even if it had those attributes which you poimnted out, from your own admission other games like brawlers were popular and in the case of SOR looked and sounded better which is really the point i was making. A game like OR was caught between the bigger new fresher games that made the megadrive popular(CASTLE OF ILLUSION SPIDER MAN SOR SONIC) to the upcoming titles that was about to make the MD stretch beyond its limitations (ECCO, GUNSTAR HEROES, EL VIENTO etc).
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OUTRUN was a horrible game on the MD, you mentioned the limitations of the hardware well that's the point and its a good one, at that same time as OUTRUN we were seeing titles like SOR which frankly was the total package in terms of graphics, playability and sound and other titles that was just prettier to the eye and ear. Compared to that and what was being released for the MD at that time between 90/91
Different game though and totally different genre's .
Anyway i'm going by memory, all i remember was how it looked and sounded at the time
OutRun was a graphical powerhouse that was way above and beyond anything possible on the Mega Drive or the very similar Sega system 16 Arcade board ; So much so that very few machines in the early 1990's could even begin to handle a perfect port, same for for a lot of SEGA Sprite scailers where even the FM Towns Marty and Sharp X68000 had issues
SEGA Japan put inthe Spite Scaling & Rotation Hardware into the Mega CD and did very little with it , which was a shame and one look at John O' Brien's incredible Batman Returns shows the Mega CD could have handled a very decent Out Run conversion
[youtube]http://youtu.be/eeZK3-NNTcY[/youtube]
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Different game though and totally different genre's .
That's not the point and you know it. You think Joe bloggs looked at OUTRUN MD and appreciated the so called programming skills put into that game, with the way it looked?! Then looked at Sonic and SOR with the way it looked? Who do you think came out on top? Most of the time people's attention other than hype is how the game looks and sounds and if those departments are in the very high marks then anything that looks below par doesn't have a chance.
OutRun was a graphical powerhouse that was way above and beyond anything possible on the Mega Drive or the very similar Sega system 16 Arcade board ; So much so that very few machines in the early 1990's could even begin to handle a perfect port, same for for a lot of SEGA Sprite scailers where even the FM Towns Marty and Sharp X68000 had issues
SEGA Japan put inthe Spite Scaling & Rotation Hardware into the Mega CD and did very little with it , which was a shame and one look at John O' Brien's incredible Batman Returns shows the Mega CD could have handled a very decent Out Run conversion
Yet you've been saying its not a perfect port even for a MD game. Go figure. I know i didn't think it was.
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That's not the point and you know it. You think Joe bloggs looked at OUTRUN MD and appreciated the so called programming skills put into that game, with the way it looked?! Then looked at Sonic and SOR with the way it looked? Who do you think came out on top
Lets no go down the old route of pointing scoring and I'm not on about Joe Bloogs too . The Mega CD didn't have any extra Playfield Hardware so a SOR II bar the sound and music wouldn't have been much better on the Mega Cd anyway, that's not the point; The Mega CD had hardware scaling & rotation and that meant it should and could have been used to convert SEGA classic Sprite Scalier coin up's with while would have meant nothing to Joe, would have been nice for the SEGA die Hardhards who loved their SEGA Coin Up's and could have played the best home versions of the game at the time
Even if you were to take the Super Hang-On MD code and just add in scaling and Arcade perfect sound effects and music score it would have been a Big Deal to the SEGA Die-Hards who loved their SEGA Coin ups and would have pleased the SEGA faithful and owners of the Mega CD.
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Lets no go down the old route of pointing scoring and I'm not on about Joe Bloogs too . The Mega CD didn't have any extra Playfield Hardware so a SOR II bar the sound and music wouldn't have been much better on the Mega Cd anyway, that's not the point; The Mega CD had hardware scaling & rotation and that meant it should and could have been used to convert SEGA classic Sprite Scalier coin up's with while would have meant nothing to Joe, would have been nice for the SEGA die Hardhards who loved their SEGA Coin Up's and could have played the best home versions of the game at the time
Even if you were to take the Super Hang-On MD code and just add in scaling and Arcade perfect sound effects and music score it would have been a Big Deal to the SEGA Die-Hards who loved their SEGA Coin ups and would have pleased the SEGA faithful and owners of the Mega CD.
What are you talking about? Nobody mentioned SOR for MCD. And whether you were or not talking about joe bloggs or johnny public that was the reality of the situation, ORN on MD just didn't look great and it was already an old game at that time in a period where everyone wanted to play the new exciting games that looked great and sounded great. And half of them were coming from sega themselves. Its not like you disagreeded with me on your initial thoughts of ORN. I'm just remembering the intial reaction, some positive mostly mixed and indifference. And you are also contradicting yourself, what's the point arguing for ORN and other old hat games at that time to be released for the MCD when no one else but die hards would have noticed the improvements? That's stupid, anyone would have noticed the improvements, the point you keep conviently forgetting is that nobody would have cared to see a close port of an old game like ORN on MCD because the game wasn't new and it had been done to death. Even many sega fans were sick of it at the time. Games that hadn't been overly done like AFTBR and OTRN? Sure but not those two franchises, even the newer installments weren't selling that well on the MD. We are talking about a period of where new exciting games were coming out left right and centre. You can argue the diehards until you are blue in the face but the reality is everyone wanted to play these newer exciting games even sega fans. So stop trying to rewrite history or reliving that gigadrive fantasy nonesense and face the truth.
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Nobody mentioned SOR for MCD
You talked about Streets of Rage on the MD- Those games were scrolling fighters seeing as the Mega CD had no extra hardware for playfield/backrounds or increased the MD sprites . Those games (other than sound) wouldn't have been any better onthe Mega CD really .
With the Mega CD has soon has it was confirmed that it had Hardware that could handle multi Sprite scaling and rotation. SEGA faith and even the SEGA mag were all thinking of SEGA porting its scalers to the machine . Its just a shame that SEGA Japan never ever ported one
because the game wasn't new and it had been done to death
Hardly because the game had never received a decent port to the home, it took the Saturn to do that and SEGA mag raved about it and the SEGA die hards loved it (its one of the best racers onthe Saturn) . And you could say that about many SEGA Coin ups about being done to death and old hat , but even today people are happy with a perfect port of VF II (a game that's been done to death) . For the SEGA die hards the will to play the best ports of SEGA coin ups will always be there
SEGA Japan should have made far better use of the Mega CD to port its own Coin ups
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You talked about Streets of Rage on the MD- Those games were scrolling fighters seeing as the Mega CD had no extra hardware for playfield/backrounds or increased the MD sprites . Those games (other than sound) wouldn't have been any better onthe Mega CD really .
That would make sense if i was comparing SOR to a MCD game, guess what i didn't! Point is those games were being compared to titles like ORN that didn't look or sounded jazzy. Like i said 91-94 there were so many great games to choose from that anything that didn't look right was ignored regardless of it being a great game or not. OUTRUN MD didn't look pretty and it was an old game that everyone had played. So it had no chance.
With the Mega CD has soon has it was confirmed that it had Hardware that could handle multi Sprite scaling and rotation. SEGA faith and even the SEGA mag were all thinking of SEGA porting its scalers to the machine . Its just a shame that SEGA Japan never ever ported one
So what? That's a vast difference between what a game journo thinks and the fans wanted. OUTRUN was not on the top or even on anybody's lists when it came to the MCD. You obviously getting that gigadrive rumour mixed up which was as i recall meant to have all the coin ops coming out for it, turned out to be nothing but baloney. And no it wasn't mistaken for the MCD either.
Hardly because the game had never received a decent port to the home, it took the Saturn to do that and SEGA mag raved about it and the SEGA die hards loved it (its one of the best racers onthe Saturn) . And you could say that about many SEGA Coin ups about being done to death and old hat , but even today people are happy with a perfect port of VF II (a game that's been done to death) . For the SEGA die hards the will to play the best ports of SEGA coin ups will always be there
That's because there weren't that many Sega die hards in 91 as compared to the Saturn era and as now. The audience for the MS and MD especially the MD, weren't dominated by Sega diehards who would get every sega game and play every or nearly every sega arcade game. The old game porting market didn't exist during the late eighties and early nineties, so please stop making out that there was a huge demand for it. There wasn't. The Saturn era was a complete different scenario because that's when Sega help usher in the back catalouge market and there was still a siseable amount of sega and arcade die hards that would buy them(considering how abymsal the saturn's performance was in the west it was obviously small) so using the saturn and using VF2 as an example is really moot. Nowadays the Sega die hards hardly exist :'(, the Sega fanbase are mostly Sonic fans(ugh) and apparently judging from what some of them say have never played VF until recently.
SEGA Japan should have made far better use of the Mega CD to port its own Coin ups
Just not OUTRUN or SPACE HARRIER or AFTERBURNER which we got anyway with that game that wasn't even an Afterburner game.
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Like i said 91-94 there were so many great games to choose from that anything that didn't look right was ignored regardless of it being a great game or not. OUTRUN MD didn't look pretty and it was an old game that everyone had played. So it had no chance.
I'm not going to go back to the silly old ways for starters . Yes the MD version of OutRun looked poor , but that's becasue the gulf in Hardware spec's , The Mega CD had the hardware to handle the best home version of the game and it would have sounded Arcade perfect and for a game like OutRun where people still celebrate the soundtrack it would have been a big deal - not to Mega Drive fans or Average Joe, but Mega CD users and anyone who was a OutRun fans
You obviously getting that gigadrive rumour mixed up which was as i recall meant to have all the coin ops coming
No and I still remember Mean Machines saying the Mega CD was the Giga Drive given its dual 16 Bit CPU's . When people knew the Mega CD had hardware to handle sprite scaling and rotaion not just for backgrounds but multiple sprites , dreams of playing the likes of Power Drift on the system were happing.
Just not OUTRUN or SPACE HARRIER or AFTERBURNER which we got anyway with that game that wasn't even an Afterburner game
The Mega CD got After Burner III and it was a AB game and based on a port of the Japan only Coin -up . Shame SOJ handed out the port to CRI to totally fuck up . You know there's people here who still loved playing Space Harrier on and AB II on their 32X and at the time it was a big deal to any SEGA fan of the old coin Up's .
Sega Saturn Magazine even took a trip down to Seaside Arcade to do a massive feature on the SEGA sprite scaling coin-ups they loved to see ported to the 32X. To some the deal of playing old SEGA coin ups is a huge draw, not matter how old they are or they are out on other systems - They just want to play the best versions of those games at the time and in 1991/2 it would have been great for SEGA scalier fans to play the classic scalier on the Mega CD .
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Speaking of many canceled games, I did have quite a few including Penn & Tellers Smoke & Mirrors.
While insanely awful it was, that was the whole point of it all (hence the title). All US submissions over the years once development for the Sega CD and Genesis slowed to a stop and moved on to working on Saturn ports, it was rather comical to see all these gems many which were unpublished all sitting in a cardboard box and we're bootable on a standard console.
I see a rather large and long drawn argument here that reminds me of years ago in Jr. High...
System 16 and Sega Super Scaler arcade machines porting directly to the Sega CD is a rather comical notion. Sure the 3D effects in the US version of Batman Returns looked good but there is no way the Sega CD system could fully handle direct ports of After Burner and Outrun. The largest issue was still the color reduction and the arcade machines had far better abilities even to that of the Saturn. Had the System 32 been reworked and coaxed with some 3D love, the Saturn would be far less of a technical nightmare that it was.
Focusing on Outrun and After Burner, both games were superior on the PC Engine than the Mega Drive in a few ways. After Burner on the PC Engine did use limited scaling effects right at the start remaining somewhat faithful to the coin op. While Out Run didn't use hardware scaling and such, it did have one advantage in it's favor and that was color.
The fact that Power Drift seen a port to the same system was rather amazing and a very bold thing to do all without additional hardware running with the custom Hudson HU6280 CPU. The graphics hardware on the old PC Engine had legs never thought possible with bold ports of Neo Geo titles at the end of it's life in Japan. A console introduced to market while the Mega Drive was still in the works of seeing release and brought to the US as the Genesis.
All these games had one thing in common on the PC Engine side, they were licensed out to RED/NEC to be coded for the hardware. Much the same way early Genesis games from Capcom were ported by Sega due to the third party restrictions by Nintendo.
The black eye to the old PCE was comparing Altered Beast. The Genesis release was near arcade perfect but the game was notably awful already by PC Engine / TurboGrafx owners.
When it comes to Sega CD, it was rather poorly marketed not showing what the combo could do when pushed along. Having had a hand in the development process of Battlecorps and some brief time with Soul Star, it was games like these that needed to be shown instead of more rotting flesh from Digital Pictures and more FMV games by Sega themselves.
Other games as mentioned were extended Cartridge based games with a little "fluf" for buying the game on CD. It was a bad move and shouldn't have been allowed since the same games could easily be found on cartridges. Even with the effects included.
The Sega CD needed exclusive titles that were appealing to gamers. Silpheed was awesome and clever FMV fooled a lot of players thinking that it was real polygons in the background. It was simply FMV but it did rather well.
The largest problem if a Outrun port was made for the Sega CD, it would have never been able to deliver that many scaled sprites and branching courses simply due to lack of memory issues. It's a fast paced game and for new objects to be brought into memory, loading is going to be needed some time which would really annoying the player.
Another example or analogy I thought was rather comical was the Sega CD hardware being more powerful than the Neo Geo. The only thing the Sega CD could do that the Neo Geo couldn't was sprite rotation and background planes.
The Neo Geo used sprites for the background including multi-plane scrolling for every game on the system. Since sprite size was unlimited, background planes were not much of an issue.
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The largest issue was still the color reduction and the arcade machines had far better abilities even to that of the Saturn. Had the System 32 been reworked and coaxed with some 3D love, the Saturn would be far less of a technical nightmare that it was.
The Saturn was away and above that of the Out Run board , not least in colour and res . But colour is not really an issue has MD was always suffering in that regard .
Sure the 3D effects in the US version of Batman Returns looked good but there is no way the Sega CD system could fully handle direct ports of After Burner and Outrun.
No more comical than porting those games to the Master System or Mega Drive where the hardware was ill able to cope with the scaling or the sound of the OutRun board. The Mega CD had hardware to offer scaling and to offer Arcade perfect sound and music No a direct port , but able to handle the best port of the game around at the time. Much like the PS or the Saturn offered the best way to play ports of Model 2 or System 22 games;They'll be far from perfect, but they would be the best versions of the games around at the time
The fact that Power Drift seen a port to the same system was rather amazing and a very bold thing to do all without additional hardware running with the custom Hudson HU6280 CPU
The game looked a mess tbh, but came it to its own on the PC Eng GT- Where thanks to the small screen it looked more impressive
Having had a hand in the development process of Battlecorps and some brief time with Soul Star, i
Sadly those games too late in the Mega CD life to make any sort of impact and Soul Star was too hard for it's own good and should really have made use of a save system.
Another example or analogy I thought was rather comical was the Sega CD hardware being more powerful than the Neo Geo. The only thing the Sega CD could do that the Neo Geo couldn't was sprite rotation and background planes
In some key area's the Mega CD was more powerful - Batman Returns, Cliffhanger, Soul Star and the like are doing stuff that would be a nightmare to do on the Neo -given it had no hardware support for Rotation and unlike the Mega CD could handle multiple bitmap scaling . Just one look at the Neo's rather lame effort at a Sprite scailer racer Riding Hero shows how Batman Returns engine was far superior
that many scaled sprites and branching courses simply due to lack of memory issues. It's a fast paced game and for new objects to be brought into memory, loading is going to be needed some time which would really annoying the player.
The Adventures of Batman & Robin handle manly scaled sprites on the Mega CD for starters and given that the Out Run Cart on the MD was only 8Mb and the Mega CD had 6Mb of main ram . Then the Mega CD wouldn't really have to worry about loading given that the scaling and CD soundtrack alone would save on space compared to its cart cousin
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I'm not going to go back to the silly old ways for starters . Yes the MD version of OutRun looked poor , but that's becasue the gulf in Hardware spec's , The Mega CD had the hardware to handle the best home version of the game and it would have sounded Arcade perfect and for a game like OutRun where people still celebrate the soundtrack it would have been a big deal - not to Mega Drive fans or Average Joe, but Mega CD users and anyone who was a OutRun fans
MCD fans were MD fans. You need a MD for the MCD to work, remember? And it wouldn't have meant anything to people at that time for old games like OUTRUN to have seen a release. Remember the complete guide to Sega that the MM/CVG crew use to come out with and where they had the specs for the new MCD and the rumour of SF2 among other games? Not one mention of AFTERBURNER or OUTRUN. It wasn't on their wish list, which from what i recall they had one near the back of game supposedly coming out for the MD/MCD(can't remember. The point is this from people who would have wanted to see that on their wish list but even they didn't put it up. because at that time people were more intrested in newer titles rather than an older game like ORN.
No and I still remember Mean Machines saying the Mega CD was the Giga Drive given its dual 16 Bit CPU's . When people knew the Mega CD had hardware to handle sprite scaling and rotaion not just for backgrounds but multiple sprites , dreams of playing the likes of Power Drift on the system were happing.
No, they were calling the Gigadrive a new 32 bit system and never mentioned its connection or being the MCD.
The Mega CD got After Burner III and it was a AB game and based on a port of the Japan only Coin -up . Shame SOJ handed out the port to CRI to totally fuck up . You know there's people here who still loved playing Space Harrier on and AB II on their 32X and at the time it was a big deal to any SEGA fan of the old coin Up's .
Naw,STAR WARS ARCADE was a big deal, even the 32x port of VF and DOOM, MK2. but SPACE HARRIER wasn't high on anyone's list. Shame as it was a decent port.
Sega Saturn Magazine even took a trip down to Seaside Arcade to do a massive feature on the SEGA sprite scaling coin-ups they loved to see ported to the 32X. To some the deal of playing old SEGA coin ups is a huge draw, not matter how old they are or they are out on other systems - They just want to play the best versions of those games at the time and in 1991/2 it would have been great for SEGA scalier fans to play the classic scalier on the Mega CD .
But that's what im saying except i'm talking about the games that were released from Sega betwen that period not old games from 86-88.
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The Saturn was away and above that of the Out Run board , not least in colour and res . But colour is not really an issue has MD was always suffering in that regard .
No more comical than porting those games to the Master System or Mega Drive where the hardware was ill able to cope with the scaling or the sound of the OutRun board. The Mega CD had hardware to offer scaling and to offer Arcade perfect sound and music No a direct port , but able to handle the best port of the game around at the time. Much like the PS or the Saturn offered the best way to play ports of Model 2 or System 22 games;They'll be far from perfect, but they would be the best versions of the games around at the time
The game looked a mess tbh, but came it to its own on the PC Eng GT- Where thanks to the small screen it looked more impressive
Sadly those games too late in the Mega CD life to make any sort of impact and Soul Star was too hard for it's own good and should really have made use of a save system.
In some key area's the Mega CD was more powerful - Batman Returns, Cliffhanger, Soul Star and the like are doing stuff that would be a nightmare to do on the Neo -given it had no hardware support for Rotation and unlike the Mega CD could handle multiple bitmap scaling . Just one look at the Neo's rather lame effort at a Sprite scailer racer Riding Hero shows how Batman Returns engine was far superior
The Adventures of Batman & Robin handle manly scaled sprites on the Mega CD for starters and given that the Out Run Cart on the MD was only 8Mb and the Mega CD had 6Mb of main ram . Then the Mega CD wouldn't really have to worry about loading given that the scaling and CD soundtrack alone would save on space compared to its cart cousin
Not going to waste the time picking apart posts out of context to suit my needs for the sake of argument let alone typing this on my phone however whoring out Batman Returns is really a bad example IMO. Other than few roadside objects, the games, 3D driving levels were really not the best looking when similar effects could be done on the Genesis hardware alone. I'm well aware of what the Sega CD and the 32X and Saturn hardware than you assume.
The system will always look different to the fans than to the developers making games for it. Soul Star too hard, wow... Does that somehow make it a less impressive game? Battleccorps was also completed and shipped before Soul Star. How do I know? I worked for the company that published it. I found that game a far better technical effort than Batman, but to each their own.
Bold console ports have always been the pinnacle of the PC Engine. Every time someone said something couldn't be done on the system, they were proven wrong. The latter release of Lords Of Thunder on the US Turbografx system vs. A port to the Sega's CD really showed a weak side to the system despite the extra memory and hardware. It all boiled down to a quality developer knowing the hardware and despite the best efforts, the Sega CD port was far behind the abilities of an 8 bit console.
When it comes to the Neo Geo, I find it rather comical that you choose one of the worst games to represent the system just to back your claim. That I find more comical than the rather bold 8 bit arcade ports to the Master System.
Good day sir... I'm done with closed minded folks.
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Not going to waste the time picking apart posts out of context...
Good day sir... I'm done with closed minded folks.
You're new around here, so you've got to understand... that's exactly what Team Andromeda and ROJM do. Epic quote battles. Each one considers himself the undisputed absolute expert on everything about Sega, thanks to years of telling themselves just that. It's one of those immovable wall vs. unstoppable force situations, except both the wall and the force can quote posts and type 90 words per minute. Personally, I've long suspected that they are in fact the same person, in some kind of bizarre Fight Club type scenario. They both disappear for weeks or months at a time, but when one of them shows up, the other one always pops back up at just about the same time.
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You're new around here, so you've got to understand... that's exactly what Team Andromeda and ROJM do. Epic quote battles. Each one considers himself the undisputed absolute expert on everything about Sega, thanks to years of telling themselves just that. It's one of those immovable wall vs. unstoppable force situations, except both the wall and the force can quote posts and type 90 words per minute. Personally, I've long suspected that they are in fact the same person, in some kind of bizarre Fight Club type scenario. They both disappear for weeks or months at a time, but when one of them shows up, the other one always pops back up at just about the same time.
Haha. I happened to be in the development cycle for several Sega CD games and some of these comments had me laughing. :o
Whoring out Batman Returns is a rather awful example of the power of the system compared to such technical gems such as Soul Star.
While I worked on more Saturn titles over the years, Core Design had truly mastered the platform. It's a shame that few games really pushed the limit of the hardware in comparison to the PC Engine Duo.
I've been a lurker for a while whilst working on a future article for the site. Getting a feel of the fans and the fanboys.
Honestly, there are many games on cartridges that shouldn't have been technically possible over the years, but they made it to market without needing extra hardware. It's games like that are more worthy of real appreciation and should be played by any Genesis / Mega Drive owner.
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Remember the complete guide to Sega that the MM/CVG crew use to come out with and where they had the specs for the new MCD and the rumour of SF2 among other games? Not one mention of AFTERBURNER or OUTRUN.
That list was mix of pure rumour and speculation including the likes of Rad Mobile . And yes you needed the MD to run its games and so you could have games like SOR II for the MD no issues and then we should have Mega CD games that used its scaling...
And it wouldn't have meant anything to people at that time for old games like OUTRUN to have seen a release
It would have to the fans of the coin ups of which they are some today . I mean it means nothing to most, but there were fans happy with ports of coin ups to the Saturn like Chase HQ , never mind some happy with Space harrier coming to the 32X.
they were calling the Gigadrive a new 32 bit system and never mentioned its connection or being the MCD
Yes up until the Toyko Game show in Japan where onthe news of the Mega CD Jazza did his report was saying the Mega CD was in fact the Giga Drive .
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Batman Returns is really a bad example IMO. Other than few roadside objects, the games, 3D driving levels were really not the best looking when similar effects could be done on the Genesis hardware alone
Mega Drive games could just about handle single sprite scaling never mind in most games it hardly did it well and there was no racer on the Mega Drive that came close to Batman Returns The Out Run coin board it's self couldn't handle what Batman Returns was doing with its Rotation effects or the 3D effect on the sides of the road side objects .
Whoring out Batman Returns is a rather awful example of the power of the system compared to such technical gems such as Soul Sta
For someone who claims to be in the industry I would have hoped for a better more reasoned answer .
Batman Returns Mega CD was made in 1992 mere months after its USA launch and marked the very 1st time the ASIC chip Mega CD hardware was truly used 100%. Core Desgin 1st few Mega CD hardly used the Asic at all , never mind the Core's 1st games that did use the extra hardware (Jaguar and ThunderHawk) only had 16 colours on screen (Batman had the full colour pallet ) . Soul Star made great use of the system and it pushed the system more than but came out in 1994 and was Core 3rd generation Mega CD game; There was always going to be improvements just like who the Batman Returns engine was improved for Cliffhanger alone, just like how one saw a massive improvement in Mega Drive early games to latter ones ..
A port to the Sega's CD really showed a weak side to the system despite the extra memory and hardware
It all depends on if the developer uses the host Platform to get the best results . Seeing has games like LOT had no scaling no rotation effects , it was never going to a stand out moment on the Mega CD just like Core early ports of Chuck Rock, Wolfchild never really made use of the Mega CD extra functions , core port of ThunderHawk made full use of the system though
hen it comes to the Neo Geo, I find it rather comical that you choose one of the worst games to represent the system just to back your claim.
The Neo Geo had no hardware support for rotation and couldn't simultaneous multiple handle Sprite Scaling to that of the Mega CD . Games like Thunder Hawk (mega CD) would lose out on the Neo Geo
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You're new around here, so you've got to understand... that's exactly what Team Andromeda and ROJM do. Epic quote battles. Each one considers himself the undisputed absolute expert on everything about Sega, thanks to years of telling themselves just that. It's one of those immovable wall vs. unstoppable force situations, except both the wall and the force can quote posts and type 90 words per minute. Personally, I've long suspected that they are in fact the same person, in some kind of bizarre Fight Club type scenario. They both disappear for weeks or months at a time, but when one of them shows up, the other one always pops back up at just about the same time.
LMAO! "I know this, because ROJM knows this...."
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You're new around here, so you've got to understand... that's exactly what Team Andromeda and ROJM do. Epic quote battles. Each one considers himself the undisputed absolute expert on everything about Sega, thanks to years of telling themselves just that. It's one of those immovable wall vs. unstoppable force situations, except both the wall and the force can quote posts and type 90 words per minute. Personally, I've long suspected that they are in fact the same person, in some kind of bizarre Fight Club type scenario. They both disappear for weeks or months at a time, but when one of them shows up, the other one always pops back up at just about the same time.
Absolute tosh. I dont consider myself an absolute master of Sega, neither does TA. But we both been in the game long enough to know what's what. Most of our disagreements is really about stuff from the time of Sega's past and its really a point of view about who did what or whatever. A lot of stuff some people around here wouldn't know about while other things are general knowledge. And we both known each other with Sharky(which is the only reason i came round here in the first place)long before this place or Sega nerds was a twinkle in anyone's eye. You guys just see one aspect of it, not really the whole thing.
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You're new around here, so you've got to understand... that's exactly what Team Andromeda and ROJM do. Epic quote battles. Each one considers himself the undisputed absolute expert on everything about Sega, thanks to years of telling themselves just that. It's one of those immovable wall vs. unstoppable force situations, except both the wall and the force can quote posts and type 90 words per minute. Personally, I've long suspected that they are in fact the same person, in some kind of bizarre Fight Club type scenario. They both disappear for weeks or months at a time, but when one of them shows up, the other one always pops back up at just about the same time.
This post really made me laugh because of how true the bold part is, hahahaha.
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Well i've got something called a job. In the job i do i occassionaly have to travel around the country or the world sometimes so posting on a forum full of sonic fans isn't going to be my first priority. Sorry kids but some of us do have to live in the real world you know. ;)
It all boiled down to a quality developer knowing the hardware
Which is why i dont understand your point. You said in you're initial post that the MCD couldn't handle a particular port or direct port. Well the ideas of ports have changed over the years thanks to technology but initially during the time of the MD/MCD or Super Famicom a port meant as close to the arcade original as it could possibly be. Even the phrase an arcade perfect conversion usually meant it did the original justice or real close to the original game.
Now the reason i dont understand your point because you admitted that there was several MD games that was doing things that the MCD was designed to do. Now if you think that the MD could do that why not the MCD? Which by all means is an extension of the same system.
This was an era where Sega had some of the best programmers in the industry. Not to mention in SOA as well. Add that to the second party developers like Treasure as well as some third parties like Virgin games who were coming out with some incrediblev looking titles of their time I cannot see how you would come to that conclusion. The MCD was the most powerful games add on at that time for the 16bit market. With the programmers Sega had it was more than possible to port certain games mentioned including some of the System32 titles that were around. A direct port? No but as close as it could be for that period and if it was good enough, it was more or less would have been celebrated as a perfect port usually by journalists that were aware of the capabilities of these systems and were amazed by what these developers/programmers were able to acheive.
Now in the context of that and what we saw with games like POWER RANGERS CD which manipulated many of the MCD features by exceptional programming skills as well as Namco's Star blade which many thought could never be ported on a system like the MCD and see it done some justice, this attitude of the MCD couldn't do that from a guy who claims to have worked during that era just does not make sense.
Did the MCD benefit from the great programmers at the time? Not as it could have but it was starting too. Like any short lived system you can only dream of the potential if it had not expired when it did. The sad thing is that we were seeing games that were being programmed exceptionally and making the MCD do things beyond it was meant to do. The MD was the real winner because there are plenty of examples of what many of these programming geniuses did with that system, even with the MS to a slight degree.
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Mega Drive games could just about handle single sprite scaling never mind in most games it hardly did it well and there was no racer on the Mega Drive that came close to Batman Returns The Out Run coin board it's self couldn't handle what Batman Returns was doing with its Rotation effects or the 3D effect on the sides of the road side objects .
Well... Duh. Derp derp...
It is obvious that the Mega Drive can't handle a direct system 16 port or newer revisions of the arcade boards. What the hell are you smoking? Did I ever claim it could? Secondly the roadside objects on Batman Returns were actually quite sparse in a sea of flat grey. Bad choice of trying to pick apart a post to suit your needs to sound "smart".
The Neo Geo had no hardware support for rotation and couldn't simultaneous multiple handle Sprite Scaling to that of the Mega CD . Games like Thunder Hawk (mega CD) would lose out on the Neo Geo
You obviously have no idea how the Neo Geo works. You should just stop before digging yourself in a hole...
The Neo Geo system actually has no background plane ability so it uses a sprite for BG data since the size is not limited. Multiple scaling of objects has been seen many times over in various fighters as the whole scene zooms in and out. It's all SPRITES, just stitched together in a clever manner that many people never realized.
I know the NG can't do rotation effects but nobody really cared, the system outlasted the Genesis and it's peripherals entirely as players were having fun instead of counting colors and looking at Batman Returns. You can't deny that Battlecorps and Soul Star were far superior in pushing the Sega CD hardware than Batman.
In closing, my comparison between Lords of Thunder between the Turboduo Super CD and the Sega CD are worlds apart. Gameplay was identical but far superior on a system using no additional hardware where on a technically superior platform, it didn't do (or look) so hot...
Not every game needs scaling and rotation to be "good", just look at the Misadventures of Flink, amazing pixel art without needing scaling and rotation madness.
Have fun with your blinders as they are clearly stapled to your face. The way this thread turned out, it seems you will never be happy or humble in being wrong so you change the subject matter to meet your posting "needs". Clearly this is one thread that has gotten nowhere and completely off topic.
Have fun kicking sand. In the meantime, I'm going to be playing some Out Run on my Game Boy Advance...
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Which is why i dont understand your point.
Interesting wild tangent you went on there. What exactly are you asking or what your point may be, is lost in a wall of text. I thought this topic was about canceled Sega CD games instead of crapping on each others lawn. Consider me confused there...
Direct ports from arcade games to home consoles aside from the Neo Geo AES console (some content was altered to fit the home market instead of the MVS carts)
Otherwise, common ports to consoles of the time were nearly impossible to to memory limitations or time constraints.
Every game has a budget and a planned release date all of which must be tested and approved before RTM (release to manufacturing). Some hardware was better suited for certain titles than others. The Genesis handled many arcade ports well but still something gets lost in translation. Color reduction, audio conversion, etc.
Dedicated projects for the respective consoles of the time when time and effort is there adds some amazing things never thought possible. (Gunstar Heroes, Batman & Robin, Red Zone) multiplatform titles really do little if at all to push the limits of a console.
When it comes to the Sega CD, third parties considered the platform a huge gamble to really produce some quality games for the system. Why? It's all about the ROI... That is why many games from third parties already had a Genesis version then added some extras to make the player feel that investment was worth buying over the cart.
Far more people simply had just the Genesis or SNES and those who had the Genesis would often debate if the Sega CD was worth the money after all the crap FMV titles that pushed out as initial release games. It wasn't till much later (near the end of the life of the Genesis as well) that quality games showed such as Sonic CD and a few others.
Early on, there just wasn't many games on the Sega CD that really shouted "system seller or killer app".
Think before replying...
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It is obvious that the Mega Drive can't handle a direct system 16 port or newer revisions of the arcade boards. What the hell are you smoking
I don't smoke and one isn't on about system 16 ports where the Mega Drive had decent enough hardware to handle ports , but ports of SEGA's X, Y Out Run boards where the Mega Drive didn't
Secondly the roadside objects on Batman Returns were actually quite sparse in a sea of flat grey
No more and more appear in latter levels and also you see a change in the colour pallet when down in the Sewer section and a rather nifty tilting effect on the water . And in Batman & Adv of Robin the traffic count was increased pretty massively
. Multiple scaling of objects has been seen many times over in various fighters as the whole scene zooms in and out.
Yes thanks to in part to its Huge memory , but there are games on the Mega CD that the Neo would find though going to emu in software.
I know the NG can't do rotation effects but nobody really cared
People did care and that's why boards why other Arcade boards supported such effects in hardware
The Genesis handled many arcade ports well but still something gets lost in translation. Color reduction, audio conversion, etc.
yeah line scrolling ones not really an issue , ones that used scaling the MD found it hard to emu the effect.
(Gunstar Heroes, Batman & Robin, Red Zone) multiplatform titles really do little if at all to push the limits of a console.
Batman & Robin was brilliant on the MD , but that's thanks to the coding skills on John O'Brien the man who made Batman Returns and Cliffhanger for the Mega CD . Its a shame SEGA never used more of the man great coding for Mega CD games
Early on, there just wasn't many games on the Sega CD that really shouted "system seller or killer app
Yeah and that's where SOJ should really have stepped in
Well i've got something called a job.
Well said Joe. Working 12 hr shifts and having a family/social life means we can't all post every week on boards
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A series of snipped quotes and ssubject changes...
Are you really listening to yourself?
Like many, I have a job yet still have enough time out of the day where I don't pass out on the floor the moment I get through the door. Interesting way of patting yourself on the back. Many here would kill to have done what I have in the years gone by... trust me on that...
Done here... enjoy circle jerking and what have you, I have better ways to spend my time with those who just can't grasp common sense let alone have a attention span longer than that of a goldfish.
Off topic and a endless "discussion" you can't fully comprehend...
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I have a job yet still have enough time out of the day where I don't pass out on the floor the moment I get through the door
? One it all depends on ones job and there are days when as soon as you have food after a shift you're almost ready for bed and nothing more .Then there's of course there's the issues of having stuff to talk about (like a New SEGA game ) which doesn't happen daily
So for various reasons people can't post everyday or every week
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Interesting wild tangent you went on there. What exactly are you asking or what your point may be, is lost in a wall of text. I thought this topic was about canceled Sega CD games instead of crapping on each others lawn. Consider me confused there...
Confused seems to be your middle name.
Let me remind you on what you previously said.
Speaking of many canceled games, I did have quite a few including Penn & Tellers Smoke & Mirrors.
While insanely awful it was, that was the whole point of it all (hence the title). All US submissions over the years once development for the Sega CD and Genesis slowed to a stop and moved on to working on Saturn ports, it was rather comical to see all these gems many which were unpublished all sitting in a cardboard box and we're bootable on a standard console.
I see a rather large and long drawn argument here that reminds me of years ago in Jr. High...
System 16 and Sega Super Scaler arcade machines porting directly to the Sega CD is a rather comical notion. Sure the 3D effects in the US version of Batman Returns looked good but there is no way the Sega CD system could fully handle direct ports of After Burner and Outrun. The largest issue was still the color reduction and the arcade machines had far better abilities even to that of the Saturn. Had the System 32 been reworked and coaxed with some 3D love, the Saturn would be far less of a technical nightmare that it was.
You then implied on another post this...
It all boiled down to a quality developer knowing the hardware
Now while you were talking about the PC Engine CD Rom, the crux of what you said can be applied to any system which has the benefit of a talented team of programmers. But you are acting like this couldn't have at least been attempted on the MCD no matter what. Strange as i said because of what a lot of the programmers/Sega teams were doing with the MD at the time. You seriously trying to tell us they weren't able to do any tricks to get a similar effect? Really? With the talent of programmers involved with the Sega system? The talent that was around the industry at that time? Strange from someone who claimed to be working within it at that time....
Direct ports from arcade games to home consoles aside from the Neo Geo AES console (some content was altered to fit the home market instead of the MVS carts)
Otherwise, common ports to consoles of the time were nearly impossible to to memory limitations or time constraints.
Yet many still happened. which wasn't what you were saying before.
Every game has a budget and a planned release date all of which must be tested and approved before RTM (release to manufacturing). Some hardware was better suited for certain titles than others. The Genesis handled many arcade ports well but still something gets lost in translation. Color reduction, audio conversion, etc.
So what, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one what. Yet some conversions on the MD really worked in its favour compared to the SNES, which all boils down to who was behind the game. And since they also started to create more memory for the carts and got familiar with the system, in many cases some games just started to look better be they a port or not.
Dedicated projects for the respective consoles of the time when time and effort is there adds some amazing things never thought possible. (Gunstar Heroes, Batman & Robin, Red Zone) multiplatform titles really do little if at all to push the limits of a console.
Maybe you should tell that to the people behind Earthworm Jim and some of the EA sports games that appeared on the SNES. In a lot of cases the MD won out with the multiplatform games.
When it comes to the Sega CD, third parties considered the platform a huge gamble to really produce some quality games for the system. Why? It's all about the ROI... That is why many games from third parties already had a Genesis version then added some extras to make the player feel that investment was worth buying over the cart.
Really, i'd consider that pure laziness coming from the usual suspects, which is why certain games didn't sell on the MCD. Being that you got the same title on SNES,MD and MCD. But when someone actually made a title for the MCD specifically, you saw what it could do like JOE MONTANA CD FOOTBALL or in the case of Virgin's Terminator game tried to give you more than just a little extra. Its some of the lazy third parties that was trying to sell and push the same game on all platforms making little to no attempt in giving you an incentive to even buy those titles for any of the platforms that failed, maybe because of time constraints and what not but in a period where the casual joe saw games like ECCO or what the sega team managed to do with SF2 CE on the basic MD there was no way a game that was sub par across all platforms was going to measure up. It was no excuse.
more people simply had just the Genesis or SNES and those who had the Genesis would often debate if the Sega CD was worth the money after all the crap FMV titles that pushed out as initial release games. It wasn't till much later (near the end of the life of the Genesis as well) that quality games showed such as Sonic CD and a few others.
Strange because some of the FMV titles sold over 100 000 copies like TOMCAT ALLEY. Obviously it wasn't everyone who owned a Sega CD thought FMV was a crap genre or those sales wouldn't have happened which explained why they kept pushing the genre. Enough so that some third parties tried to get in on the act.
And SONIC CD showed up midway not near the end of its lifespan. Anyone who was "making" games at that time would have known that. ::) but hey you didn't even seem to know about the programming tricks of the day to get the best out of a machine either so i'm not suprised by that stupid statement.
Early on, there just wasn't many games on the Sega CD that really shouted "system seller or killer app".
Which we already addressed in this topic and which is how me and TA ended up talking about what if these ports happened.I think you should read before replying. That last point was briefly covered in the discussion that me and TA are talking about. The discussion or the main argument is something called a hypothetical argument. he thinks a conversion of OUTRUN and AFTERBURNER would have drawn more people to the MCD, i'm saying it wouldn't because of the fact that those games were old hat at that time and most people wanted the newer titles of that period.
Secondly, no one here had originally insulted you. Yet you have come straight off the bat trying to put people down. That shows to me juvenile behavior which indicates that you aren't what you claim to be. You claim to be part of the industry and as what may i ask? A copy boy? Because you lack one element that most developers/programmers would need and demonstrate time and time again. Its a thing called patience. You see many devs/progs have been on these boards either here or the website that this place spun off from. They don't display the attitude that your displaying. Considering that when these guys do pop up on a fan orientated forum and are swamped with questions which can be stupid or annoying they show extraordinary patience, in places like the main sega forums or in some cases twitter.
You see if you have worked in this or any similar role, patience is a skill you will need considering the setbacks one will defiantly experience in that line of work in the video game industry. And usually job skills can be transferable to places outside of a work environment. If you actually had any job that require a particular skill you would know this of course.
Oh yes they may be trying to sell a game in some cases but not all the time. They also don't appear regularly either. But i guess they must be pass out on the floor from work using your analogy. An analogy of someone who either doesn't have a job or too young to understand the realities of working life.
Which goes back to the point of what you tried to accuse me and TA of about having the time coming to these forums. Well were the only ones who have at least addressed your points specifically, taking the TIME to address your points yet you haven't. Because you can't be bothered by "endless" quotes as you haven't the time. Its kinda like the pot calling the kettle black.
Now you can come up and accuse us of" kicking sand in your face","mowing the lawn" or whatever silly remark you have, I'm from the UK. We didn't have the Sega vs Nintendo war nonsense like you had in the states. When i was a teenager and the launch of the MD, the UK top system was the ZX Spectrum/commodore which was then taken over by the Amiga as people's choice of system. Sega was the only actual Japanese games console that people brought in sizeable numbers during the era of the spectrum and amiga. After that until they ended up dominating with the MD. Nintendo really came into it late in the game, very late. So these playground talk nonsense never existed at the time i was at school, i can't speak for TA but i'm sure he knows what the scene was like back then. The only "battles" i got involved in was when i went on the net back in the late nineties to early noughties and discovered a variety of twisted and anti Sega sentiment which was widespread back then.
Now I've wasted enough time on you and your obvious delusions of grandeur.
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? One it all depends on ones job and there are days when as soon as you have food after a shift you're almost ready for bed and nothing more .Then there's of course there's the issues of having stuff to talk about (like a New SEGA game ) which doesn't happen daily
So for various reasons people can't post everyday or every week
TA, the fact that you have to explain THAT to him, is a pure indication that this guy doesn't know the realities of work let alone working in an industry notorious for its odd hours. I'll address some of the points you raised later, but i'm not wasting my braincells on another kid who thinks reading some snippets and books on video games automatically makes him an expert specifcally on a period he clearly knows little about.
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Here's the thread recap so far for those of you just joining us... And that's ROJM with a 9x Quote Combo Chainamanjaro, unleashing a massive firestorm of hyperbole -- and the finishing move, a very dramatic proclamation of having spent enough time on the subject already. He's finished with this discussion! (Until someone replies to it.) Ungibbed has been finished with the discussion twice already though, so he's got ROJM and Team Andromeda on the ropes on that count, but he hasn't been able to chain together any more than a paltry 2x Doublequote in a post. Team Andromeda could teach him a thing or two about quote chains, as he put the hammer down with an impressive 8x Quote Combo Chaintacular. Team Andromeda loses points for drama, though, as he has yet to express disgust with the idea of continuing to do battle with inferior rhetorical opponents. Stay tuned for more bloody chunks of text here in the meat pit!
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Here's the thread recap so far for those of you just joining us... And that's ROJM with a 9x Quote Combo Chainamanjaro, unleashing a massive firestorm of hyperbole -- and the finishing move, a very dramatic proclamation of having spent enough time on the subject already. He's finished with this discussion! (Until someone replies to it.) Ungibbed has been finished with the discussion twice already though, so he's got ROJM and Team Andromeda on the ropes on that count, but he hasn't been able to chain together any more than a paltry 2x Doublequote in a post. Team Andromeda could teach him a thing or two about quote chains, as he put the hammer down with an impressive 8x Quote Combo Chaintacular. Team Andromeda loses points for drama, though, as he has yet to express disgust with the idea of continuing to do battle with inferior rhetorical opponents. Stay tuned for more bloody chunks of text here in the meat pit!
So you and ungibbed are the same person then. ;)
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That list was mix of pure rumour and speculation including the likes of Rad Mobile . And yes you needed the MD to run its games and so you could have games like SOR II for the MD no issues and then we should have Mega CD games that used its scaling...
No, they had a rumour section and a release schedule section, most of the games on the release schedule section did get released,some of the rumour games did happen or eventually happened on another system. Point is they didn't mention one bit about wanting to see OUTRUN or AFBNR.
It would have to the fans of the coin ups of which they are some today . I mean it means nothing to most, but there were fans happy with ports of coin ups to the Saturn like Chase HQ , never mind some happy with Space harrier coming to the 32X.
Hey there probably were but it goes back to my original point that most people wanted to play the more recent games.SPACE HARRIER was overshadowed by the recent games like STAR WARS VIRTUA RACING and DOOM.(ok not an arcade game but a recent title)
es up until the Toyko Game show in Japan where onthe news of the Mega CD Jazza did his report was saying the Mega CD was in fact the Giga Drive .
They did that to save their arse. The Gigadrive as they reported it was 32 bit and half the specs was different from the MCD. Another factor was that people knew about the MCD even at the time of the gigadrive rumour mainly because of the speculation of the port at the side/back of the MD. Even MM and CVG was going on about it being for a cd or something similar system before it was offically confirmed and that was being speculated about a good two years before the official news. So no they in no way thought that the GDVE or MCD was the "same" system.
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So you and ungibbed are the same person then. ;)
Now don't insult me with such nasty drivel. I just tire of talking (or typing) the same thing over and over.
Been too busy having some fun with Bards Tale on Android (comparing it to the iOS release) and work.
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Oh, merry xmas to you too. For the record, I'm busier with work than all of you combined. And my work happens to be correcting incorrectness on the internet!!!
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Oh, merry xmas to you too. For the record, I'm busier with work than all of you combined. And my work happens to be correcting incorrectness on the internet!!!
Oh my God! You're the S3, aren't you? NOOOOOOOOO!
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Oh my God! You're the S3, aren't you? NOOOOOOOOO!
Touche'
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Now don't insult me with such nasty drivel. I just tire of talking (or typing) the same thing over and over.
Been too busy having some fun with Bards Tale on Android (comparing it to the iOS release) and work.
;D Biggest laugh i've had yet considering what you previously said.
Oh, merry xmas to you too. For the record, I'm busier with work than all of you combined. And my work happens to be correcting incorrectness on the internet!!!
Unemployed too. Good for you. ;)Tax dollars at work.Parents must be proud. ;)
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;D Biggest laugh i've had yet considering what you previously said.
Considering the fact that you have absolutely no idea what I do for a living, you got the cart before the horse there...
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Alright guys, keep it on topic and no more personal attacks.
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I'd say just lock this nonsense...
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Considering the fact that you have absolutely no idea what I do for a living, you got the cart before the horse there...
And i really couldn't care mate. If its anything like some of the baloney you've been spouting it can't be much.
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I'd say just lock this nonsense...
here's a better idea, dont come into a topic and insult people you hardly know about what they know or their work lives right off the bat. You'd get far that way.
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Topic locked so you guys can cool off. Last I checked, this was a "Cancelled Sega CD games" topic. Perhaps it can return to being one after a bit of cooling off?