SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: ROJM on February 27, 2013, 12:21:19 pm
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http://www.polygon.com/2013/2/27/4035006/segas-nagoshi-on-next-gen-the-relic-purchase-and-keeping-consoles
Toshihiro Nagoshi is chiefly known as the top creative mind behind Yakuza, a series that arguably does more to keep Sega's name in Japan's limelight than Sonic the Hedgehog at this point. As of a year ago, he's also chief creative officer of Sega, overseeing software development around the world. He's manned the helm through some fairly stormy waters, but his work has sown results. Sega is back to being profitable so far this fiscal year, despite weaker earnings.
"Through all the difficult circumstances we've gone through, we've been able to invest more into our mid and far future while still retaining our identity as Sega," Nagoshi told Famitsu magazine this week. "To be honest, we still need to solidify our footing and our performance as a company, but given the frenetic cycles we deal with nowadays, if we worried solely about that right now, we wouldn't have a stable future in three or five years. I think we'll need to take some new measures to deal with that."
A lot of Sega's success this year has had to do with the launch of Phantasy Star Online 2 in Japan. The latest in one of their best-known franchises, PSO2 surprised many by both adopting a free-to-play scheme and using the PC as its lead platform-something that must have generated a lot of debate within the company.
"If it looks that way from an outside perspective, then you can imagine how it was even more heated within the company," Nagoshi replied. "I think it comes down to the talents of the PSO2 team, and how they convinced the company to go that way. I see possibilities with F2P across the industry; it all depends on what you do with it, but it took this team to show us what we could accomplish with this property. No company is ever unanimous when it makes decisions; there's always doubt over how much you can trust someone who swears to you that they have a vision and they can make it happen. Launching Yakuza may have been a bit like that, but this is a large-scale online game, so the longer you run it, the more money it'll cost us. PSO2 certainly taught Sega how hard it is to establish an online game and run it as a stable business, and I think Sega's gained some major assets through that experience over the past year."
PSO2 has 1.7 million user accounts in Japan alone and is set to launch worldwide on the PC and mobile devices this year. But that's not the end of Sega's overseas strategy, as demonstrated by their purchase of Relic Entertainment last month as part of THQ's bankruptcy proceedings.
"[The purchase] is based around our objective of getting products locally developed by local studios," commented Nagoshi, "but it's also due to the heavy-hitting RTS titles Relic has. Sega already has The Creative Assembly, which is great at making RTS', and so we're becoming one of the best in the world at this genre now. So this purchase was part of our strategy for tackling this genre as well. It's a well-established one, especially overseas, and having this wealth of experience under our belts makes me really look forward to seeing how the chemistry between the two studios works out. If we have the opportunity to make further purchases that emphasize high creativity, I think you'll see us aiming for that."
When asked about what the next generation, Nagoshi sees an even more intense competition than in previous cycles, although it won't come down to hardware speed. "They'll be better-performing systems," he said, "but I think they'll start being closer and closer to each other on the inside. The Wii and Wii U are differentiating themselves on the hardware level, but the other two systems are going to wage an all-out war of services, one that'll involve the entire Sony group and the entire Microsoft group. It'll be a battle to see which group can leverage its scale to best benefit developers and gamers."
As he prepares to join this battle, Nagoshi doesn't seem particularly concerned about rising development costs in the next gen. "It depends on the title, but we don't picture development costs as massively expanding any longer," he said. "As hardware grows more powerful, you can have that hardware cover more of the labor of running the game. There'll always be room for polish, but after a certain point, you're always running into limits in terms of the size of the media. I think pretty much all the AAA titles people know use up nearly all of the media space they're given. In terms of selling price, in terms of the cost of things like multiple disc layers and the tempo of play, I don't see development costs changing massively. They'll be expensive, sure, and that is a concern to me, but even if the hardware gets ten times as powerful, games won't suddenly get ten times costlier to make. I don't think they'd even be twice as costly."
Given that Yakuza spearheads Sega's console lineup in Japan, Nagoshi sees himself as playing a necessary role in keeping console gaming relevant worldwide. It's not a trivial task, given all the headlines social-game outfits are grabbing these days.
"I'd like to ensure that console games don't lose their luster," he declared. "Behind that, I suppose, is the concern that they will, indeed, become a thing of the past if we don't do something. This isn't new, but in a lot of different ways, the 'social' keyword is seeping into all parts of the console business. So part of me sees the console scene as endangered, something we have to act to support. I feel the need to keep that scene active so it doesn't get shunted to the side, and even at this moment, I'm busy thinking of how we'll keep titles like Yakuza going."
When asked about future goals for the company, Nagoshi brought up Sega's traditional image; He describes it as the young upstart that produces wildly out-there titles and doesn't seem too pre-occupied with bottom-line profits. "I want to think about things from ground zero one more time," he said. "That's tough for our younger staff, but it's also fun and exciting. That's what you want the Sega logo to represent: things that seem crazy at first, but really surprise you when they take form. Even if people say 'Oh, now they've done it' at us sometimes, I don't want to do away with the expectations that people have had for us since way back. It wouldn't seem right if Sega acted all firm and conservative, would it? I think I'd like to keep that."
Too bad he doesn't have the time to write his monthly column like he use to.
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i like how he basically implies how Nintendo isn't competing in the next gen race xD
Also, nice to read about PSO2 doing good for SEGA.
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Great article. Nagoshi's always insightful.
I'm confident Sega has the right mind as the helm of creative. That quote in the last paragraph is spot on.
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This put a smile on my face and a little confidence in my pocket. Good on you, Nagoshi.
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Great article. Nagoshi's always insightful.
I'm confident Sega has the right mind as the helm of creative. That quote in the last paragraph is spot on.
my exact sentiments. He's defenitly the right guy at the right place with such a wise mentality
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Just hope that Sega the company doesn't screw it up. Which we all know is likely to happen at one point. Its important if he's instilling this mentality into the younger staff to continue that legacy and to make sure the Sega way of video games doesn't die out.
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maybe hallucinating or wishfull thinking but i see a subliminal message in the whole story that will keep my hopes up for
bad ass games
no more borrow from gearbox
only sega local
and even a sega console in the evaluation
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There isn't going to be a SEGA console.
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There isn't going to be a SEGA console.
u cant prove that nor deny or acknowledge that. cause simply we dnt know what dem peeps doing there in secrecy in their evaluations
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There isn't going to be a Sega console,Sems. Not now and not for the next decade.
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Just hope that Sega the company doesn't screw it up. Which we all know is likely to happen at one point. Its important if he's instilling this mentality into the younger staff to continue that legacy and to make sure the Sega way of video games doesn't die out.
Double true.
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There isn't going to be a Sega console,Sems. Not now and not for the next decade.
Nope sorry, got to defend Semmie here.
The one message that you have to take away from this is that you can't say for certain what will happen.
I agree that a console is unlikely, but a couple years ago I would have smugly laughed at a Genesis branded laptop or a Sega Toilet arcade. 10 years is a long time and anything can happen.
Maybe Sega no longer has the muscle to put out a top tier console, but maybe another hardware manufacturer comes to them with a partnership agreement, or maybe the market opens up to a second tier console (like the WiiU) and Sega decides to put something out.
There are quite a few avenues for Sega to gamble. Hell if Android takes over Sega could release a Sega phone or tablet (wait they already did with Tokio Technology) and continue to march along with their digital strategy.
To bring up the laptops again, it really shows that Sega and the world hasn't forgotten that it used to make consoles.
Again highly unlikely, but definitively can't say that there won't be one in 10 years.
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Seems like the mentality of last-generation will continue to go on. Of keeping to put out unique console games worldwide, with stuff like Platinum Games, Yakuza localizations and Valkyria Chronicles.
I mean if he is staying true to his words (key word:worldwide), Yakuza 5 and others should come to the West.
Also just a side-note, it seems pretty much the younger generation will lead game development. With Nagoshi's promotion to be the creative officer, Kikuchi being president of SEGA Networks, the 2 key roles of Yakuza and previous Sega classics, seem far removed to be heavily involved in future games.
With Sonic it seems to be the same, Iizuka as the Producer role doesn't seem too involed. The actual director/art staff seem to be much more the driving force behind it.
IMO Rieko Kodama needs to be pulled away from imagepoech trainwrecks and make a pair with Nagoshi to be in charge of creative control in Sega.
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@Arctic: This is also the first time someone from Sega has talked about a younger generation or next generation officially. I guess that it truly is an end of one particular Sega era and the dawn of another. All the people were familiar with have either left or essentially becoming mentors now. which is sad because none of the people, Suzuki, Kodama even Naka has really left Sega the way they should have, with a great game.
@Ranoid,
In ten years there probably wont be console gaming. We just have to look at the current systems now. Most of the systems that's been released for the last ten years have ripped off ideas from Sega, their patents and their systems. And that can only take you so far unless something/someone comes up with an original idea. Social gaming is also affecting things. I can't honestlycan't see consoles really lasting the next ten years.
@Trip
Kodama became involved because she was in charge to a degree of sega's handheld division and one of its big series at the time(some sort of puzzle line) Anyhow i didn't think Image epoch's games were a trainwreck but i'd like to see Kodama actually get to produce a bigger game like she use to.
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@ROJM
Personally I think this won't effect Sega too much in contrast to their previous output...
Like, the "new" generation has put out great games in form of Generations and Binary Domain. And I think the new directors etc. are just lead designers/artists etc. on previous games. They know their craft, and can make a good game similarly feeling to previous ones.
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There is never going to be a new Sega Console... And I'm okay with that.
I actually think Sega should get into building Sega branded gaming PCs with Steam built in.
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This is also the first time someone from Sega has talked about a younger generation or next generation officially. I guess that it truly is an end of one particular Sega era and the dawn of another. All the people were familiar with have either left or essentially becoming mentors now. which is sad because none of the people, Suzuki, Kodama even Naka has really left Sega the way they should have, with a great game
No he said almost the exact same thing in EDGE when SEGA announced it was merging the likes of Sonic Team with UGA Ect and I think it was Edge that done a huge special (or it was another mag) and in that Nagoshi-san and the rest of the Team heads talks about SEGA , their and they need to make a SEGA game and all the talk over the logo .
Its talk...
The simple fact is SEGA has been very conservative this generation and I see nothing that's going to change for the next . SEGA Japan made little new IP for this Gen (for the 360 or PS3) and even when it takes a risk with Val , its then takes the safe and easy way out with it's sequels and makes them HH only and for Nagoshi-san talk about risks all he ever does is announce a new Yakuza game .
This isn't a pop at Nagoshi-san just the reality of the current SEGA and its board unwilling
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Nagioshi's still from the old guard, but I think his maturity and mentality of getting these new younger teams motivated will only benefit SEGA in the long run.
I anticipate a new SEGA if it means retaining their unique style of games whilst adapting to the new market in terms of what gamers want to see from them. SEGA can still make games that appeal to the masses if they pull out all the stops to show the gamers that they have a market strategy that is akin to their 1990's adverts.
Personally, I think Nagioshi needs to sort out the whole Shining Youtube fiasco, since I am sure even he doesn't want fans hating SEGA for taking away their rights for loving the Shining Series...it'd certainly assure them that SEGA doesn't want to punish a segment of their fanbase who could potentially go to Nintendo for their SRPG fix.
I know it's not exactly his fault as to why that happened, but since he controls SEGA's image on an international scale, he could calm the debate as to why SEGA did that.
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Its funny how TA is blind to the faults of Naka who did more damage to Sega during his tenure than whatever Nagoshi has done and he's criticising him for something he should agree on. Typical.
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Its funny how TA is blind to the faults of Naka who did more damage to Sega during his tenure than whatever Nagoshi has done and he's criticising him for something he should agree on. Typical.
I'm not knocking Nagoshi at all. His hands are tied with the SEGA board. I'm just stating the facts that the current SEGA hasn't taken many risks : looking to Japan and HH for sales, making endless Yakuza games isn't risk taking and the talk of young members and staff is exactly what the likes of Nagoshi san said years back.
I was among a very creative generation with Yu Suzuki and Naka but that was a long time ago. Now we are about 40 years old. Even if there is a lot of potential still in terms of creativity it's very hard to answer a much younger audience. So there's a need to give a chance to the younger generation of creators
That's Ogunchi-san in November 2003 . SEGA talk the talk, but haven't walked the walk the old guard still control the main pipe lines
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I'm not knocking Nagoshi at all. His hands are tied with the SEGA board. I'm just stating the facts that the current SEGA hasn't taken many risks : looking to Japan and HH for sales, making endless Yakuza games isn't risk taking and the talk of young members and staff is exactly what the likes of Nagoshi san said years back.
I was among a very creative generation with Yu Suzuki and Naka but that was a long time ago. Now we are about 40 years old. Even if there is a lot of potential still in terms of creativity it's very hard to answer a much younger audience. So there's a need to give a chance to the younger generation of creators
That's Ogunchi-san in November 2003 . SEGA talk the talk, but haven't walked the walk the old guard still control the main pipe lines
So you use another article from EDGE to prove your point on what Nagoshi said? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the comments that Nagoshi said instead? And what would you expect them to say? "Hey everyone were gonna fail because we can't make the games we really want so don't buy them!" Come on TA you're just nitpicking.
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So you use another article from EDGE to prove your point on what Nagoshi said? Wouldn't it make more sense to use the comments that Nagoshi said instead
It isn't just about Nagoshi-san but the spin of using a younger Team and tasking risks . SEGA just isn't doing that at all these days .
In the DC days it did and let the young Teams make the games they wanted to make and SEGA was all the better for it .
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Bull, most of the guys including nagoshi himself had to pay their dues before they ended up leading their own teams, its no different now than it was back then. And some people are coming up and doing their own titles and they've been in sega for a while and worked to get to that position and got the plaudits along the way before they started to create their own title or lead a project or team.
And really, all the more better for it? Yeah i forgot we anxiously awaiting the new next gen Sega console after the success of the last one... ::)
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Bull, most of the guys including nagoshi himself had to pay their dues before they ended up leading their own teams, its no different now than it was back then.
If that was the case people like Nagoshi-san. Suzuki-san, Naka-san, Mizuguchi-san Ect would have never got their chance to lead their Teams and make the game they wanted to make.
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If that was the case people like Nagoshi-san. Suzuki-san, Naka-san, Mizuguchi-san Ect would have never got their chance to lead their Teams and make the game they wanted to make.
Nonsense, It took them a while before they made or took lead of a project. So much you know.
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Nagoshi's main blind spot is in his concept of loyalty -- to Sony and to focusing solely on Japan for the Yakuza franchise. Although it's always a strong seller, it's pretty much topped out in sales the way it is.
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Nagoshi's main blind spot is in his concept of loyalty -- to Sony and to focusing solely on Japan for the Yakuza franchise. Although it's always a strong seller, it's pretty much topped out in sales the way it is.
i wouldn't say that was his blind spot. Sega's been ignoring the western market for years and yakuza is a symptom of that. The majority of his titles has always had a universal market appeal from SPIKE OUT to SUPER MONKEYBALL. Its only with YAKUZA that he's really focused on japan only.BD was an attempt to leave that behind.
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Nonsense, It took them a while before they made or took lead of a project. So much you know.
And how many games do you think the likes of Ueda-san and Masayoshi Kikuchi have worked on? Give them the chance to lead their own Teams and make the games they want to make.
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And how many games do you think the likes of Ueda-san and Masayoshi Kikuchi have worked on? Give them the chance to lead their own Teams and make the games they want to make.
So you agree with me now. But wait what the hell is DEMON TRIBES? spilt milk?
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So you agree with me now. But wait what the hell is DEMON TRIBES? spilt milk?
You think making a game of iOS is their call ? lol No SEGA dropped and canned Udea-san big console project year's ago . Nagoshi-san shouldn't be calling the shots or leading the team. Kikuchi-san is the one that should be the Head now.
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You think making a game of iOS is their call ? lol No SEGA dropped and canned Udea-san big console project year's ago . Nagoshi-san shouldn't be calling the shots or leading the team. Kikuchi-san is the one that should be the Head now.
I agree with this
Ueda and Kikuchi are really underrated, Yakuza can be thought as a Team effort between Nagoshi and others, but most think of Yakuza as the Nagoshi game or ex-AM2 game.
Kikuchi especially has done more than Nagoshi has in terms of Home console Sega classics, that the company is known for.
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You think making a game of iOS is their call ? lol No SEGA dropped and canned Udea-san big console project year's ago . Nagoshi-san shouldn't be calling the shots or leading the team. Kikuchi-san is the one that should be the Head now.
Really desperate now aren't you. I never said it was their call. Laugh at that. And at least they're in a position to make games now which was the point. you're making out they haven't been able to get anything done. And one more thing. Lots of games got canned by Sega last year so he wasn't the only one. If you think Sega wanted to can them then you really are having a laugh.
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I agree with this
Ueda and Kikuchi are really underrated, Yakuza can be thought as a Team effort between Nagoshi and others, but most think of Yakuza as the Nagoshi game or ex-AM2 game.
Kikuchi especially has done more than Nagoshi has in terms of Home console Sega classics, that the company is known for.
And that's kind of what happened with Nagoshi with DAYTONA although usually Suzuki gets all the credit. People in Sega get their dues and whether they can take the oppurtunity move on to create their own titles. its happened before and it'll happen again. But some people seem to think it doesn't happen anymore within sega when that's simply isn't true.
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Really desperate now aren't you.
No you tried to be funny . If Ueda-sand had his way it would be a big AAA console project , not that Deamon Tribe is his baby anway .He's a brilliant artists and most good artists come up with concepts that make programmers and modellers cry with how they're expected to get that running in game
To see this great team making games for iOS is a joke imo .
And that's kind of what happened with Nagoshi with DAYTONA
So he should ,compare Daytona USA to Daytona USA II and its quite clear which title had the magic Suzuki-san touch . Where it came to driving games there's no-body better than Suzuki-san . Sad to see SEGA let this man go and treat him like shit :(. Speaking of AM#2 it's time that Makoto Osaki-san was given the chance to be Team head and lead a team , Given that man talents
Lots of games got canned by Sega last year so he wasn't the only one.
Some of us tried telling you that years ago,how Yu Suzuki was part time also and so on;all rubbished by you (of course) and hitting back with SEGA secret plan and document : how SEGA had all these big games planed and Yu Suzuki alone was working on 4 titles . I told you years ago. SEGA Japan is a shadow of its former self it was in desperate need to up its game and its next gen pipe-lines and to stop the quick and easy fixes.
People in Sega get their dues and whether they can take the oppurtunity move on to create their own titles
If only that was the case . Then people like Ueda-san, Kikuchi-san, Yuda-san would be handling their own Teams to lead and be heads right now . Looking how if how in the past Kodama-san , Oshima-san, Ishii-san should have been made Heads and lead teams .
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No you tried to be funny . If Ueda-sand had his way it would be a big AAA console project , not that Deamon Tribe is his baby anway .He's a brilliant artists and most good artists come up with concepts that make programmers and modellers cry with how they're expected to get that running in game
To see this great team making games for iOS is a joke imo .
Funny? For yopur claims saying he's not getting any chance in making games,he's getting more than an oppurtunity. maybe you should remember on what you said.
So he should ,compare Daytona USA to Daytona USA II and its quite clear which title had the magic Suzuki-san touch . Where it came to driving games there's no-body better than Suzuki-san . Sad to see SEGA let this man go and treat him like shit :(. Speaking of AM#2 it's time that Makoto Osaki-san was given the chance to be Team head and lead a team , Given that man talents
That was never the point. The point is talented programmers/coders etc get their chance to shine in sega. that hasn't changed.
Some of us tried telling you that years ago,how Yu Suzuki was part time also and so on;all rubbished by you (of course) and hitting back with SEGA secret plan and document : how SEGA had all these big games planed and Yu Suzuki alone was working on 4 titles . I told you years ago. SEGA Japan is a shadow of its former self it was in desperate need to up its game and its next gen pipe-lines and to stop the quick and easy fixes.
Years ago? The games got canned in the last few months of last year. This isn't something that happened years ago. LOL How desperate have you become.
And as for Suzuki, you said he was retired i said he wsasn't. So don't bother coming up with that or the 4 title to seven title baloney you stouted. especially when i never put a numbero n how many titles he ws working on. The Suzuki thing is not connected to what's happened in the last fiscal year. Again clearly indicating you haven't a clue on what you are on about.
If only that was the case . Then people like Ueda-san, Kikuchi-san, Yuda-san would be handling their own Teams to lead and be heads right now . Looking how if how in the past Kodama-san , Oshima-san, Ishii-san should have been made Heads and lead teams .
And whose to say they haven't kodama was in charge of a game line from the mid noughties, and the others have had oppurtunities to shine.
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claims saying he's not getting any chance in making games,he's getting more than an oppurtunity. maybe you should remember on what you said.
He wasn't allowed to make the game he wanted to make. Some 3 years ago Ueda-san (along with a handful of others) made a presentation to the SEGA board for a new IP for the current consoles with a stunning CGI presentation that was leagues ahead of anything the other Teams showed off, but it was sadly rejected.
The point is talented programmers/coders etc get their chance to shine in sega
Programmers come and go .
SEGA needs a good line of young talent/designers & Producers to take over from the old guard . That isn't happing, people like Nagoshi-san still call the shots and that needs to change and the younger members given their time to lead the teams, just like the old SEGA allowed Suzuki-san, Nagoshi-san Ect to be Team heads and make their own games.
Years ago? The games got canned in the last few months of last year
Yep over 2 years ago . Quite a few projects got dropped with Sammy slashing the amount of money SEGA spend on R&D for the consoles .
And as for Suzuki, you said he was retired i said he wsasn't.
I said he was 'semi retired' which was exactly what he was ; Of course you rubbish it and not only that said he alone was working on 4 new games . In the end the truth game out , just like it did for the The Box/The Ritualyst. Which you always claimed was called the The Crucible and would never have a name change but some told you otherwise . Maybe one day we'll get to see what Ueda-san had planned a few years ago :P
And whose to say they haven't kodama was in charge of a game line from the mid noughties
She's never been a Team head in all her years at SEGA
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He wasn't allowed to make the game he wanted to make. Some 3 years ago Ueda-san (along with a handful of others) made a presentation to the SEGA board for a new IP for the current consoles with a stunning CGI presentation that was leagues ahead of anything the other Teams showed off, but it was sadly rejected.
You just said he was making a new game that got recently canned along with others. You're switching it to a game that didn't get commissoned. make your mind up and stick to the point.
Programmers come and go .
SEGA needs a good line of young talent/designers & Producers to take over from the old guard . That isn't happing, people like Nagoshi-san still call the shots and that needs to change and the younger members given their time to lead the teams, just like the old SEGA allowed Suzuki-san, Nagoshi-san Ect to be Team heads and make their own games.
You keep using examples and then dismiss them in your own post. Only a handful of great talent are really going to rise above the ranks and get out the games they want to create. no different now and no different then.
Yep over 2 years ago . Quite a few projects got dropped with Sammy slashing the amount of money SEGA spend on R&D for the consoles .
Were talking about last year mate, not two years ago.
I said he was 'semi retired' which was exactly what he was ; Of course you rubbish it and not only that said he alone was working on 4 new games . In the end the truth game out , just like it did for the The Box/The Ritualyst. Which you always claimed was called the The Crucible and would never have a name change but some told you otherwise . Maybe one day we'll get to see what Ueda-san had planned a few years ago :P
because he wasn't semi retired at that time let alone left sega. it was only confirmed a year afterwards. And don't bring up the Ritualist BS with me either because you said they never chose that name.,people tell you things that you choose to ignore all the time despite the evidence indicating it.
She's never been a Team head in all her years at SEGA
Yes she was put in charge of the quiz/puzzle line.
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You just said he was making a new game that got recently canned along with others. You're switching it to a game that didn't get commissoned. make your mind up and stick to the point.
You keep using examples and then dismiss them in your own post. Only a handful of great talent are really going to rise above the ranks and get out the games (http://www.robustbuy.com/video-games-c-532.html) they want to create. no different now and no different then.
Were talking about last year mate, not two years ago.
because he wasn't semi retired at that time let alone left sega. it was only confirmed a year afterwards. And don't bring up the Ritualist BS with me either because you said they never chose that name.,people tell you things that you choose to ignore all the time despite the evidence indicating it.
Yes she was put in charge of the quiz/puzzle line.
I will just wait for the new upcominggames for my tabet, so that I can play all time.
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You just said he was making a new game that got recently canned along with others
No I said he had left the Yakuza Team during development of Kenzan and was looking to start work on his own game, that got canned not long in and he was then offered a job in the Sonic Team.
Only a handful of great talent are really going to rise above the ranks and get out the games
You can list the old classic SEGA members that were able to be Team Heads and lead their own Teams . The current SEGA it's not even close , that is part of SEGA Japan trouble
Were talking about last year mate, not two years ago
Sammy slashed SEGA R&D spending on games by over 20 million 2 years ago and hasn't began to increase spending on R&D and that is sadly reflected in SEGA's output.
because he wasn't semi retired at that time let alone left sega
You were told long before the story broke, about Suzuki-san real role in SEGA. He was semi retired and just worked on projects that took his interest; But was not in command of his own Team or leading any big projects .
And don't bring up the Ritualist BS with me either because you said they never chose that name
Ohh the Ritualist now... You couldn't make it up , not after you claimed it would always be called The Crucible and don't make out otherwise .
Everyone from the old SEGA nerds days will know the truth .
Yes she was put in charge of the quiz/puzzle line.
No that would be Akira Nishino . Komama-san only ever been a producer/director at SEGA - Never a Team head
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No I said he had left the Yakuza Team during development of Kenzan and was looking to start work on his own game, that got canned not long in and he was then offered a job in the Sonic Team.
proof?
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No I said he had left the Yakuza Team during development of Kenzan and was looking to start work on his own game, that got canned not long in and he was then offered a job in the Sonic Team.
No you never said that. And B , the discussion was about current events like the last year or so when games got canned. Talking about a game that never was going to happen in a period that was not in discussion is a pure example of you switching things to get an upper hand in an argument you have already lost.
You can list the old classic SEGA members that were able to be Team Heads and lead their own Teams . The current SEGA it's not even close , that is part of SEGA Japan trouble
Things were different back then. You could also have trouble naming who's who back in the old SG1000 to pre master system days. Its only within the tailend of the genesis era into the saturn and DC eras that certain people became well known. And that's due to several things mainly a growing games magazine industry during that period. Just because its gone back to how it use to be doesn't mean its the downfall of sega.Geta grip, man.
Sammy slashed SEGA R&D spending on games by over 20 million 2 years ago and hasn't began to increase spending on R&D and that is sadly reflected in SEGA's output.
Yawn, never said it didn't.
You were told long before the story broke, about Suzuki-san real role in SEGA. He was semi retired and just worked on projects that took his interest; But was not in command of his own Team or leading any big projects .
Er no. You said retired, he actually stepped down from his corporate role not from games which is what i had stated.
Ohh the Ritualist now... You couldn't make it up , not after you claimed it would always be called The Crucible and don't make out otherwise .
That's the name of the game isn't it?! Make up ypur mind. I never claimed it would always be called the crucible either i just disputed the name change which technically happened with THQ when they brought the title. It was never official that's the point.
Everyone from the old SEGA nerds days will know the truth .
Yes they know you BS a lot.
No that would be Akira Nishino . Komama-san only ever been a producer/director at SEGA - Never a Team head
And many people at sega was effectivly doing two jobs. She was efectivly in charge of sega's
NARUHODO line after they were becoming popular and she came off ALTERED BEAST.
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proof?
You wont get it. What TA actually means is that he made a ambigous statement that can refer to any title and then claim it as being the game he was on about when its revealed and have everyone excited about. Unlike myself who actually say what the games are when i know them or hear about it. some dont happen some actually do but i live by my record and people can see how exact i am unlike some who cant and uses pitiful excuses to cower behind.
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ROJM I don't want it to become a soap opera . Only to say that Ueda-san left the Yakuza team during development of Yakuza:Kenzan and that's when he was looking for idea's and funding for his new concept game
About The Crucible - you know full well what you said and that I told you it was to have a name change and before you hit out - I knew one of the members working on the game and joked to that person,that people would think it would be a snooker game That's not the reason why the name was changed btw, but I did know the project was going to have a name change for retail
And Komama-san has never been a Team head , the likes of Nishino-san was in charge of the Hand Held division . To be fair though Nishino-san is a good safe pair of hands, but SEGA now needs to let some of the younger members have their moment and make fresh new content and IP for the next gen.
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What I would have loved him to say would be, "One of the first games for Dreamcast 2 is Shenmue 3." But can't have everything. Shenmue 3 on Wii U would be cool because of their touch pad...just a thought.
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ROJM I don't want it to become a soap opera . Only to say that Ueda-san left the Yakuza team during development of Yakuza:Kenzan and that's when he was looking for idea's and funding for his new concept game
Like i said I'm not happy how things are within Sega but back at the time i don't feel that it was more diffulcult to get a project going than anyone else getting a game started in Sega. The game you are going on about didn't get greenlighted. The game I'M talking about did get greenlighted but got canned, with EVERY other game that had started production but found themselves getting canned by the management during 2012. So it wasn't Ueda san being singled out like you are trying to impress to everyone else here. There is no point talking about a game that never got off the ground in the mid noughties when I was specifically talking about games that was supposed to be made in the last two years. it wasn't and never was part of the conversation and you know it. So stop switching things to suit your agenda and keep to the point.
About The Crucible - you know full well what you said and that I told you it was to have a name change and before you hit out - I knew one of the members working on the game and joked to that person,that people would think it would be a snooker game That's not the reason why the name was changed btw, but I did know the project was going to have a name change for retail
Oh i know you joked about it being a snooker game as you mentioned it at the time. My point is when you said it changed its name it was never official and it wasn't at the time. Then the project went thru all the troubles before they sold it off to THQ. So i wasn't wrong at that time about it not being changed because Sega never officially changed it until THQ got their hands on it.
And Komama-san has never been a Team head , the likes of Nishino-san was in charge of the Hand Held division . To be fair though Nishino-san is a good safe pair of hands, but SEGA now needs to let some of the younger members have their moment and make fresh new content and IP for the next gen.
Actually she was in the puzzle line software, being the main producers. i never said she was in charge of the handheld division. Keep up.
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Like i said I'm not happy how things are within Sega but back at the time i don't feel that it was more diffulcult to get a project going than anyone else getting a game started in Sega.
At 1st Ueda-san wanted to make a Panzer game but next to no-one wanted to bother or had any interest with the series sadly in the whole of SEGA Japan . So Ueda-san along with a few members of SEGA Japan and a couple from SEGA America began work on a new concept game that got has far a CGI presentation (which was said to be utterly stunning) but was sadly rejected by the board , the game was then pitched to SOA/SOE for possible funding and they rejected it too.
My point is when you said it changed its name it was never official
No it wasn't . I just knew one of the producers (who know works for SONY btw) and knew fell well the game was going to have a name changed . It really sad the Project never it made it out , it had plenty of cool ideas and had really good people working on it - including some producers and designers from system shock 2 (Looking class).
Actually she was in the puzzle line software, being the main producers
The puzzle Line was lead and headed by the Hand Held division (it was part of that team) and that was Nishino-san divsion . Now Nishino-san is very good man (I'm told he's a complete tech and SEGA nerd so he's a good guy :)) but its time for some of the younger staff now to leads the teams and make their games . It's really time of the old guard in most SEGA divisions to move back and just be producers and let the Younger Members be Team Leaders and bosses.
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At 1st Ueda-san wanted to make a Panzer game but next to no-one wanted to bother or had any interest with the series sadly in the whole of SEGA Japan . So Ueda-san along with a few members of SEGA Japan and a couple from SEGA America began work on a new concept game that got has far a CGI presentation (which was said to be utterly stunning) but was sadly rejected by the board , the game was then pitched to SOA/SOE for possible funding and they rejected it too.
No it wasn't . I just knew one of the producers (who know works for SONY btw) and knew fell well the game was going to have a name changed . It really sad the Project never it made it out , it had plenty of cool ideas and had really good people working on it - including some producers and designers from system shock 2 (Looking class).
The puzzle Line was lead and headed by the Hand Held division (it was part of that team) and that was Nishino-san divsion . Now Nishino-san is very good man (I'm told he's a complete tech and SEGA nerd so he's a good guy :)) but its time for some of the younger staff now to leads the teams and make their games . It's really time of the old guard in most SEGA divisions to move back and just be producers and let the Younger Members be Team Leaders and bosses.
again
source?
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I will never reveal the source has people jobs and livelihoods depend on such matters - Just ask the people of SEGA Germany :(. But let me tell you everything I said is 100% the truth and the gospel
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At 1st Ueda-san wanted to make a Panzer game but next to no-one wanted to bother or had any interest with the series sadly in the whole of SEGA Japan . So Ueda-san along with a few members of SEGA Japan and a couple from SEGA America began work on a new concept game that got has far a CGI presentation (which was said to be utterly stunning) but was sadly rejected by the board , the game was then pitched to SOA/SOE for possible funding and they rejected it too.
No it wasn't . I just knew one of the producers (who know works for SONY btw) and knew fell well the game was going to have a name changed . It really sad the Project never it made it out , it had plenty of cool ideas and had really good people working on it - including some producers and designers from system shock 2 (Looking class).
The puzzle Line was lead and headed by the Hand Held division (it was part of that team) and that was Nishino-san divsion . Now Nishino-san is very good man (I'm told he's a complete tech and SEGA nerd so he's a good guy :)) but its time for some of the younger staff now to leads the teams and make their games . It's really time of the old guard in most SEGA divisions to move back and just be producers and let the Younger Members be Team Leaders and bosses.
And let's leave it like that. I dont have the time or the energy to carry on our epic battle debates anymore. Let's just agree to disagree on certain things .
As for the sources, that's true, that german guy that use to post in Sega nerds in its early/first year got people into a lot of trouble. But then half the stuff he was spouting was BS like the whole TEMPO crap he was coming out with when anyone who knows about that game knows its a title that has a copyright clause.
As for PANZER,come on that isn't a good example considering the xbox version broke even. They were never going to go with a new version of the title especially when the producers of that game was strongly hinting that any follow up would go the RPG route. The other game that you and I are talking about and i dont know much about it but that's hard luck. Even now the last title he was doing again he got screwed by fate. I dont think its anything to do with him personally that it wont happen.
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As for PANZER,come on that isn't a good example considering the xbox version broke even. They were never going to go with a new version of the title especially when the producers of that game was strongly hinting that any follow up would go the RPG route.
Well some inside just thought it was more do with the system it was on and there . And to be honest the game did really when people think about it - selling 200,000+ copies for a modern day 3D shooter really isn't that bad when people look at it that way .
Btw the reason why most inside SEGA Japan didn't fancy a pitch of a new take on Panzer (it wasn't going to be just another shooter or RPG) had far more to do with Team members feeling the game has had its day and they've done everything they wanted to , rather than sales be the reason .
The other game that you and I are talking about and i dont know much about it but that's hard luck.
Well the old SEGA would have green lighted the game ; So that's why I get annoyed at seeing Nagoshi-san talking of the old SEGA way and what seperates SEGA to the rest , while SEGA dropped a Art game for a sequel to Yakuza 3 (and tbf Binary Domain) when other Teams should at least be allowed to try their concepts out and take the odd risk .They was also a SEGA PC tech demo shown off with the most amazing graphics anyone had seen at the time of the presentation , but that was dropped as it would have been a nightmare to get it running any consoles.
These days I haven't a clue what goes on inside SEGA Japan
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That's funny because I heard SEGA West infringe on SEGA Japan.
Who to believe Trippled who to believe!?
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It's strange that Udea would pitch a Panzer Dragoon game tough. I only see him credit himself for Jet Set Radio.
What happened to the GunValkyrie and Orta directors? The "expanded" Smilebit as it was.
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It's strange that Udea would pitch a Panzer Dragoon game tough.
It wasn't a pitch (it never got that far) It was just talking with friends at SEGA and talking of games they like to make, but none wanted to take it any further . BTW Ueda-san joined SEGA in the early 1994 and worked on Astal (his 1st SEGA game) and then moved to the Panzer Team for the sequel (Zwei) where his talent was seen on the bosses and so on - It's the likes of Ueda-san you can thank for that
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yes but TA,PDO sold that number across three regions, the usa being the highest at 120-40 units. so it wasn't great numbers especially since japan had the lowest. what made it frustrating was then hearing xbox fanatics like the haskins complaining about why sega wasn't supporting the xbox when sega's teams had their choice of which platform to develop for put their best games on that system but never saw any real strong returns. what was the management to do. Add to the usual crap sega goes thru and the sega xbox story ended up in tears. If that multiformat shooting alien horror game managed to get completed and released we might have seen more Sega SOJ MP releases earlier than we eventually did, although i perfer the exclusive route.
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yes but TA,PDO sold that number across three regions, the usa being the highest at 120-40 units. so it wasn't great numbers especially since japan had the lowest. what made it frustrating was then hearing xbox fanatics like the haskins complaining about why sega wasn't supporting the xbox when sega's teams had their choice of which platform to develop for put their best games on that system but never saw any real strong returns. what was the management to do. Add to the usual crap sega goes thru and the sega xbox story ended up in tears. If that multiformat shooting alien horror game managed to get completed and released we might have seen more Sega SOJ MP releases earlier than we eventually did, although i perfer the exclusive route.
200,000 copies for a Modern Day shooter are great sales and that's a lot better sales than what lots of shooters could manage on the 32 bit systems like the PS or Saturn , but people don't look at it that way and to fair I think SEGA and MS were hopping Orta would sell 500,000 plus which was slightly unrealistic for a shooter with out a IP like Star Wars badge behind it
What really hurt SEGA on the XBox was the poor sales of JSRF and SEGA GT (where SEGA spent a ton and put massive amounts of work in) and then Shenmue II falls falt on its ass and kills the hopes of AM#2 for a SEGA/MS funded sequel :( . Really to this day I can not figure out why JSFR sold so shit , The game was brilliant it had rave reviews and was a early title - it should have flown off the shelves
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200,000 copies for a Modern Day shooter are great sales and that's a lot better sales than what lots of shooters could manage on the 32 bit systems like the PS or Saturn , but people don't look at it that way and to fair I think SEGA and MS were hopping Orta would sell 500,000 plus which was slightly unrealistic for a shooter with out a IP like Star Wars badge behind it
What really hurt SEGA on the XBox was the poor sales of JSRF and SEGA GT (where SEGA spent a ton and put massive amounts of work in) and then Shenmue II falls falt on its ass and kills the hopes of AM#2 for a SEGA/MS funded sequel :( . Really to this day I can not figure out why JSFR sold so shit , The game was brilliant it had rave reviews and was a early title - it should have flown off the shelves
No TA it isn't good regardless on what type of game it was and it wasn't good enough at the time. because it was released in three regions they would have expected more and the advertising campaign mainly in japan and america didn't seem to make a difference. If that game made 200 000 sales in one region than that would have been great but unfortunatly it didn't.
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No TA it isn't good regardless on what type of game it was and it wasn't good enough at the time
No its very good sales given the system it was on and it being a 2002 title - when a lot of PS or Saturn 3d shooters didn't boast those sort of sales and in the 2nd year of the X-Box - 3D shooters and the shooter market in general were all but dead in the west and in serious decline in Japan . I really doubt Panzer Dragoon Zwei sold much more than 300,000 copies World wide it's self
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Not with the budget,and the marketing that came with this title. It isn't good.
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Not with the budget,and the marketing that came with this title. It isn't good.
There was an old interview with the Team where I surprised to learn that the Budget wasn't that high with Orta compared to other XBox titles (not has much people think) and the same goes for JSRF . The trouble was for a 3D shooter it cost more than what most standard shooter would, but that's always been the case for Dragoon.
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There was an old interview with the Team where I surprised to learn that the Budget wasn't that high with Orta compared to other XBox titles (not has much people think) and the same goes for JSRF . The trouble was for a 3D shooter it cost more than what most standard shooter would, but that's always been the case for Dragoon.
I'm referring to that, if Smilebit followed with another shooter then maybe, The game broke even which was meant to be good enough for the higher ups but apperently the producer of the game was hinting that any followup would follow Azel's type of game and if that was going to be the case then the sales wouldn't justify an RPG which would have cost more money. And that added to all the other early Sega xbox games not doing well seem to kabosh that idea. Of course Smilebit being absorbed into AV didn't help either...
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i like how he basically implies how Nintendo isn't competing in the next gen race xD
Also, nice to read about PSO2 doing good for SEGA.
Quite strange to be seeing this when the SEGA bombshell dropped a few days ago, huh? Anyway, I do hope he's just not talking out of his ass. I've always liked SEGA best when they're making off beat games rather than trying to be a Japanese EA.
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I'm referring to that, if Smilebit followed with another shooter then maybe, The game broke even which was meant to be good enough for the higher ups but apperently the producer of the game was hinting that any followup would follow Azel's type of game and if that was going to be the case then the sales wouldn't justify an RPG which would have cost more money. And that added to all the other early Sega xbox games not doing well seem to kabosh that idea. Of course Smilebit being absorbed into AV didn't help either...
The game was made on time some 16 months (so quite quick) and on Budget and didn't cost as much as most other X-Box games, but far more than what your standard 3D shooter would cost - that was the trouble . I think some members were hoping for sales of over 500,000 so they could be allowed to work on a possible sequel to Saga. Orta's director was one of those people I'm sure of it
Smilebit really loved the XBox (they would since most of the staff were Ex Sega PC) but were let down in sales and in one of their last interviews with a X-Box mag (just after they finished Orta and when the game was getting ready to ship) they confirmed they has 4 more XBox titles in development that sadly were never got to see . I bet one of them was what went on to become Ollie King
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The game was made on time some 16 months (so quite quick) and on Budget and didn't cost as much as most other X-Box games, but far more than what your standard 3D shooter would cost - that was the trouble . I think some members were hoping for sales of over 500,000 so they could be allowed to work on a possible sequel to Saga. Orta's director was one of those people I'm sure of it
Smilebit really loved the XBox (they would since most of the staff were Ex Sega PC) but were let down in sales and in one of their last interviews with a X-Box mag (just after they finished Orta and when the game was getting ready to ship) they confirmed they has 4 more XBox titles in development that sadly were never got to see . I bet one of them was what went on to become Ollie King
Which was hit by a lawsuit by the ollie king himself.
I was more looking forward to that MP title Hitmaker was making, that would have been good to see.
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Which was hit by a lawsuit by the ollie king himself.
I was more looking forward to that MP title Hitmaker was making, that would have been good to see.
Lots of games are hit with lawsuits sadly and I don't think you missed much with the Hitmaker game despite loads spend on research its wasn't meant to be up to much . Would have loved to see what Smilebit could have done with their 2nd gen versions of the likes of JSRF and Orta engines on the XBox
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I've played OLLIE KING, TA. Its quite the bees knees for what it was. And that's saying something since i like to avoid those type of games where you have to use your whole body.
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I've played OLLIE KING, TA. Its quite the bees knees for what it was. And that's saying something since i like to avoid those type of games where you have to use your whole body.
I hated the cheap Cabinet compared to Top Skater , but Ollie King did look just out of this world with the best cell shading visuals of last gen
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Last I recall, there is an Ollie King at the Gameworks in Schaumburg, IL.
Bonus - a short drive away is an awesome Japanese grocery store and bookstore.
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I hated the cheap Cabinet compared to Top Skater , but Ollie King did look just out of this world with the best cell shading visuals of last gen
Which is why it probably sold better across the market and prompted the lawsuit. now its in some type of legal mumbo jumbo hell where the game can only be marketed in japan i think. Too bad.