SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Happy Cat on August 14, 2013, 06:21:37 pm
-
Update: Fails to enter top 50:
http://segabits.com/forums/index.php?topic=2677.msg58276#msg58276
01./01. [3DS] Disney Magic Castle: My Happy Life # <ETC> (Bandai Namco Games) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.480) - 45.793 / 164.947 (-62%)
02./03. [3DS] Mario & Luigi: Dream Team # <RPG> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 28.598 / 204.829 (-12%)
03./00. [3DS] One Piece: Romance Dawn - Bouken no Yoake <RPG> (Bandai Namco Games) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.980) - 24.787 / NEW
04./10. [PS3] Dragon's Crown <ACT> (Atlus) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥8.190) - 20.845 / 138.919 (+52%)
05./04. [3DS] Friend Collection: New Life # <ETC> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 20.036 / 1.350.817 (-6%)
06./02. [3DS] Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies <ADV> (Capcom) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.990) - 18.897 / 309.316 (-53%)
07./09. [PSV] Dragon's Crown <ACT> (Atlus) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥8.190) - 11.153 / 96.008 (-19%)
08./08. [3DS] Youkai Watch <RPG> (Level 5) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 10.460 / 125.578 (-24%)
09./13. [3DS] Animal Crossing: New Leaf # <ETC> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 9.933 / 3.364.716 (+3%)
10./12. [WIU] Pikmin 3 <ACT> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.985) - 8.969 / 154.704 (-13%)
11./00. [3DS] Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-Kun SP: Rantou Kyousoukyoku <ACT> (Arc System Works) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.649) - 8.666 / NEW
12./16. [3DS] Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon <ACT> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 8.110 / 858.243 (+7%)
13./14. [3DS] Donkey Kong Country Returns 3D <ACT> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.800) - 7.956 / 243.132 (-6%)
14./11. [3DS] Fantasy Life: Link! <RPG> (Level 5) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.980) - 7.533 / 36.254 (-28%)
15./00. [PS3] Resident Evil 6: Special Package <ADV> (Capcom) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥3.990) - 7.454 / NEW
16./06. [PS3] The Witch and the Hundred Knights # <RPG> (Nippon Ichi Software) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥7.140) - 7.350 / 72.691 (-54%)
17./00. [3DS] Zyuden Sentai Kyoryuger: Game de Kaburincho!! <ACT> (Bandai Namco Games) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.980) - 6.939 / NEW
18./20. [3DS] Hoppechan: Tsukutte! Asonde! Punipuni Town!! <ETC> (Nippon Columbia) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.040) - 6.426 / 21.279 (+7%)
19./18. [3DS] Little Battlers eXperience W: Ultra Custom <RPG> (Level 5) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥4.400) - 5.890 / 51.215 (-19%)
20./17. [PS3] Earth Defense Force 2025 <ACT> (D3 Publisher) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥6.980) - 5.409 / 235.701 (-27%)
Yakuza I and II came out last week in Japan. Well, that was a short lived experiment (http://mynintendonews.com/2013/05/28/toshihiro-nagoshi-yakuza-is-an-experiment-on-wii-u/). Hopefully iwata paid Nagoshi good or Nagoshi gonna need to slap Iwata silly.
A dear friend informed me of this news a few minutes ago and I just had to share it!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=76317815&postcount=1
-
Not saying that the game would have done amazingly either way, but how many times can Sega expect to make money off of this? Not only did the games exist in their original form, they existed in their Low Cost versions, then they existed again in a PS3 HD upscale, and now again?
Sega should have packaged 3 and 4 along with them, then it'd have been a more compelling product.
-
Not surprised, actually quite expected. Still I am quite curious to see what their shipment number to retailers was.
Not saying that the game would have done amazingly either way, but how many times can Sega expect to make money off of this?
Very little considering how much confidence SEGA had in the product from Nagoshi's particular quotes.
-
Maybe it's some royalty payment for Sega, similarly how Namco is developing Smash Bros. for Nintendo, in trade of putting of Tekken Tag 2 on the Wii U.
Nintendo might be asking Sega for something...something is going on for sure..
-
How well did the game(s) do on ps3?
-
Wha? I don't get it I'm not seeing it anywh-....ooooooooohhhh.
Well, no chance of it reaching here now. XD
-
lol, Sega.
-
How well did the game(s) do on ps3?
Over 100,000 units.
On it's debut week it did around 58,138.
-
10./12. [WIU] Pikmin 3 <ACT> (Nintendo) {εεεε.μμ.ηη} (¥5.985) - 8.969 / 154.704 (-13%)
This makes me laugh everytiem
-
^lol why?
@aki too bad man, i hoped the series could find a new audience. not only is the installbase not large enough, but most probably already got a ps3 is what i assume. hope it wasnt too much of an investment
-
Such a stupid move on both ends.
SEGA could have picked a better port/exclusive to give Nintendo that could have at least sold better.
No offence to Yakuza of course, but perhaps those who won a Wii U, also own a PS3?
I sense this becoming a collector's item so quickly, going for 10,000 yen in a few years time.
-
Yakuza 1&2 HD Wii U fails to enter top 50 for first week in Japan
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=652351
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVvRwtzHcWI
-
@aki too bad man, i hoped the series could find a new audience. not only is the installbase not large enough, but most probably already got a ps3 is what i assume. hope it wasnt too much of an investment
No offence to Yakuza of course, but perhaps those who won a Wii U, also own a PS3?
And that is exactly what SEGA wanted to know, was there an audience for Yakuza on the Wii U, however little, or is it likely that the people who own the Playstation 3 version also happened to own a Wii U too.
SEGA was looking to see if they can expand the audience in Japan, that was the purpose of this experiment and it's been answered for SEGA.
-
If this was their idea to expand the audience, it is certainly a terrible one. A port of Yakuza 4 or 5 would have made infinitely more sense. Who wants a hd port of two ps2 games? It wasn't even a major seller when it was released for ps3, why on earth would it do well on a console with a fraction of the install base?
-
If this was their idea to expand the audience, it is certainly a terrible one. A port of Yakuza 4 or 5 would have made infinitely more sense. Who wants a hd port of two ps2 games? It wasn't even a major seller when it was released for ps3, why on earth would it do well on a console with a fraction of the install base?
You are basically hitting home my point.
Everyone who wants to play Yakuza has played it or those with the Wii U feel little urge to purchase a Yakuza title. So what audience is there for SEGA to expand upon? Therefore it leaves to reason that there is little, to no, point in porting any Yakuza title to the Wii U as the sales potential is just not there.
-
I agree. However, if their plan was to gauge interest they could have done much better.
-
Maybe it's some royalty payment for Sega, similarly how Namco is developing Smash Bros. for Nintendo, in trade of putting of Tekken Tag 2 on the Wii U.
Namco announced Tekken for Wii U long before they ended up co-developing Smash Bros.
-
Ironically, it probably would have fared better here in the U.S. XD
That's what you get for not giving us more English ports Sega! XP
-
WOW
I'm shocked!
Really!
It sold around 1K unities in its first week?
That's way below expectations.
WOW²
-
This forum is now only about sales statistics and about how everything is doomed.
-
And that is exactly what SEGA wanted to know, was there an audience for Yakuza on the Wii U, however little, or is it likely that the people who own the Playstation 3 version also happened to own a Wii U too.
SEGA was looking to see if they can expand the audience in Japan, that was the purpose of this experiment and it's been answered for SEGA.
Got news for you man. Nagoshi was saying months ago that he had no plans for more Yakuza on Wii U, lol....so no, this was always a cash grab, nothing more. Sega was once again trying to squeeze every penny they can out of old PS2 games. The Wii U presented the opportunity because it's the only other HD system in Japan (well, unless you count the 360...which, at this point, you shouldn't, over there...)
Question; Are there people in Japan who are into this type of game who haven't played Yakuza 1 and 2 yet? Those who haven't played it got to do so with the PS3 HD remaster this year....what audience was this supposed to reach?
-
This forum is now only about sales statistics and about how everything is doomed.
Nah, i think we are being quite reasonable here. The game never stood a chance unless some luck/miracle was involved. Dont know whats worth blowing it up more than it is like gaf is doing. Im gotta admit, im not a big fan of sales talk. I sometimes miss the times i was ignorant of this kind of information. Its only recently ive learned that the gamecube was a failure and those were the times that set my new standard of what i love about videogames.
Edit: havig said that, would have been great if it came west. Id buy it only for 40< euros though. Too many games already on my wishlist
-
Got news for you man. Nagoshi was saying months ago that he had no plans for more Yakuza on Wii U, lol....so no, this was always a cash grab, nothing more. Sega was once again trying to squeeze every penny they can out of old PS2 games. The Wii U presented the opportunity because it's the only other HD system in Japan (well, unless you count the 360...which, at this point, you shouldn't, over there...)
Question; Are there people in Japan who are into this type of game who haven't played Yakuza 1 and 2 yet? Those who haven't played it got to do so with the PS3 HD remaster this year....what audience was this supposed to reach?
It was a good way to see if it could sell on that system, it didn't cost them much to do the port anyway. Apart from that, maybe the old school mentality of not everyone has played a big hit game because it wasn't availble on all systems needs to be changed. That idea may have worked and paid off during the 16bit and 32 bit eras but it doesn't really work now especially with the internet and people having access to the ROMS of these games. Even then that doesn't mean YAKUZA couldn't sell on the WiiU. If this was a new game who knows what the result would have been. Its hard to say its a fail when its a port of a game that's been collected and rereleased so many times.
-
Yeah I mean without a doubt, certain people will try to use this game to make some sort of "statement" about the Wii U's chances of success, the status of M-rated games on the system, or whatever.....
But IMO it wouldn't make any sense to use this game as an example of anything except a lame attempt at a cash grab.
-
And that is exactly what SEGA wanted to know, was there an audience for Yakuza on the Wii U, however little, or is it likely that the people who own the Playstation 3 version also happened to own a Wii U too.
SEGA was looking to see if they can expand the audience in Japan, that was the purpose of this experiment and it's been answered for SEGA.
This must give them some incentive to at least focus on their western markets now?
The Japanese side has been slowly declining in terms of what sells for SEGA and what doesn't.
As far as I am aware; Yakuza, Miku and 7th Dragon (to a point) are the only games that sell well in Japan...even the most recent Shining game flopped at a mere 55,000 in it's debut, when they've been known to sell at least double that.
Not sure on their stance on Valkyria either, but they do need to give that a chance in the west.
-
This must give them some incentive to at least focus on their western markets now?
The Japanese side has been slowly declining in terms of what sells for SEGA and what doesn't.
As far as I am aware; Yakuza, Miku and 7th Dragon (to a point) are the only games that sell well in Japan...even the most recent Shining game flopped at a mere 55,000 in it's debut, when they've been known to sell at least double that.
Not sure on their stance on Valkyria either, but they do need to give that a chance in the west.
Not really, Sega has been focusing on the digital side of the market because the evidence as far as the japanese market is concerned is that more people are moving away from traditional consoles and buying games for their mobile phones. Considering that PSO2 and KINGDOM CONQUEST 2 are the biggest performers out of the Sega japan IP goes to show all is well in Japan. Over here they've effectivly focused on the PC side. I don't know if that means that Sega as a company thinks that the console market is gradually dying out worldwide.
Yeah I mean without a doubt, certain people will try to use this game to make some sort of "statement" about the Wii U's chances of success, the status of M-rated games on the system, or whatever.....
But IMO it wouldn't make any sense to use this game as an example of anything except a lame attempt at a cash grab.
Yes, I'd like to see Sega japan at least do a collection of games that aren't obvious and do them here as well. Sega's PC side saw real good results when Sega re-released all the previous TOTAL WAR games (that sega never published)on their budget label and as a big collection box. If Sega gets Atlus they could do the same over there with those games. It boggles the mind that they haven't tried to do HD masters on several games or release them as a collection as a digital thing. The fact that they would remaster CASTLE OF ILLUSION a game where they not only have the costs of remastering the game but the additional cost of paying Disney for the license and whatever cut they get from subsequent sales of the game is baffling when it won't cost them much to do the ame with the titles they do own. The PHANTASY STAR PS2 remasters would probably go down well as a digital release, especially if they do get Atlus and use their american side to do the translations.
-
Got news for you man. Nagoshi was saying months ago that he had no plans for more Yakuza on Wii U, lol....so no, this was always a cash grab, nothing more. Sega was once again trying to squeeze every penny they can out of old PS2 games. The Wii U presented the opportunity because it's the only other HD system in Japan (well, unless you count the 360...which, at this point, you shouldn't, over there...)
And some months before this was announced there was no plans for Yakuza on any non-Sony platforms.
And some months before that Project Diva F 2 was a long shot.
Situation changes, are you seriously implying that if this title did not do around 20,000 units SEGA would not contemplate moving Yakuza as a multiplatform title or future ports of the title? Of course it was a cash grab, they (Or Nintendo hoped) wanted to see if the audience would be expanded by moving it onto a non-Sony platform in Japan, it did not, they move on. Simple.
Question; Are there people in Japan who are into this type of game who haven't played Yakuza 1 and 2 yet? Those who haven't played it got to do so with the PS3 HD remaster this year....what audience was this supposed to reach?
You keep hitting home my point.
-
This must give them some incentive to at least focus on their western markets now?
The title had 5 chances, combined, they have done little over 200,000 units in the United States. Obviously there are many factors, but try convincing SEGA West there is a market after 5 failed attempts.
The Japanese side has been slowly declining in terms of what sells for SEGA and what doesn't.
As far as I am aware; Yakuza, Miku and 7th Dragon (to a point) are the only games that sell well in Japan...even the most recent Shining game flopped at a mere 55,000 in it's debut, when they've been known to sell at least double that.
Not sure on their stance on Valkyria either, but they do need to give that a chance in the west.
Add Phantasy Star, Puyo Puyo and Border Break. The Let's Make A... series also continues to post modest numbers for what it is. SEGA Japan certainly have a few domestic big guns, but I will agree outside of Sonic they have little chance at global success.
-
The title had 5 chances, combined, they have done little over 200,000 units in the United States. Obviously there are many factors, but try convincing SEGA West there is a market after 5 failed attempts.
It all depends on what their benchmark for success is for the series in the West. It's not as if Sega pressed two million copies of Yakuza 4 and only sold 200k. They knew in advance that sales would be in that range, and budgeted accordingly.
-
It all depends on what their benchmark for success is for the series in the West. It's not as if Sega pressed two million copies of Yakuza 4 and only sold 200k. They knew in advance that sales would be in that range, and budgeted accordingly.
I meant on expanding the audience really.
The original sold 75,000 in America, Yakuza 2 sold 25,000, whilst both Yakuza 3 and 4 both did 50,000 (So much for that supposed backlash) and Dead Souls sold way less than 10,000 on its debut month.
So SEGA had all these chances to try and significantly grow the fanbase and it never materialised. Issue with marketing, a bit with the games themselves, and the fact it was a Playstation 3 exclusive, but I do not see the Western sales ever increasing much unless they flat out reboot the series and vastly change the gameplay.
Whilst being a major publisher, whatever profits Yakuza's Western sales brought in are far too small for them to continue supporting the franchise here. For reference, Hatsune Miku is expected to sell 150,000 units in America alone and that title is always portrayed as some super niche title (Not that I agree with that sentiment)
-
Situation changes, are you seriously implying that if this title did not do around 20,000 units SEGA would not contemplate moving Yakuza as a multiplatform title or future ports of the title? Of course it was a cash grab, they (Or Nintendo hoped) wanted to see if the audience would be expanded by moving it onto a non-Sony platform in Japan, it did not, they move on. Simple.
If Sega really wanted to expand the audience, why not do a port that's a compelling buy? Why not port all 4 games? Why not release a Wii U version of Yakuza 5 on the same day as the PS3 version came out?
You keep hitting home my point.
I'm not sure exactly what your point is. Is it that there's no possibility for Yakuza games to sell on a system besides Sony systems? If so....I still think this game stood a chance of doing well had it had some reason, any reason, to actually exist.
Some people seem to be implying that "Wii U owners" never play games on other systems....I mean, lol, I own a Wii U. But I've played the Yakuza games on another system. So there's not a ton of incentive I'd have to buy this. I think most Japanese gamers who are fans of gritty, story-driven beat-em-ups have already played Yakuzas 1 and 2 long ago....the series was never a million-seller and its audience seems to be either flat or shrinking; it's not a growing userbase. So I mean it's possible that this series has simply hit its ceiling. In Japan. Who was Sega hoping to pick this up? Mario fans?
Regarding the West, that's where this should have been done. Japan was the wrong market to try this "Experiement" with. Yakuza 1 and 2 should have really been "Yakuza 1/2/3/4" and should have released worldwide on the 360 and Wii U. And market it. That's how you'd grow a Western userbase.
-
If Sega really wanted to expand the audience, why not do a port that's a compelling buy? Why not port all 4 games? Why not release a Wii U version of Yakuza 5 on the same day as the PS3 version came out?
Because they needed a cheap and easy way to test the market. And why would they port 3 and 4 when their budget release continue to annually sell 20,000 to 30,000 units?
Yakuza 5 was already getting a hard push from Sony and Nintendo believed they were not quite in a desperate position at the time either, so no one was really pushing for Yakuza 5 to be on a non-Sony platform.
I'm not sure exactly what your point is. Is it that there's no possibility for Yakuza games to sell on a system besides Sony systems? If so....I still think this game stood a chance of doing well had it had some reason, any reason, to actually exist.
Some people seem to be implying that "Wii U owners" never play games on other systems....I mean, lol, I own a Wii U. But I've played the Yakuza games on another system. So there's not a ton of incentive I'd have to buy this. I think most Japanese gamers who are fans of gritty, story-driven beat-em-ups have already played Yakuzas 1 and 2 long ago....the series was never a million-seller and its audience seems to be either flat or shrinking; it's not a growing userbase. Who was Sega hoping to pick this up? Mario fans?
I just don't see the point. Release Yakuza 6 on both the PS3 and Wii U at the same time, I'm sure the Wii U version would sell more than 20,000.
The point is there is a massive convergence between Wii U and Playstation 3 owners. Saying, "Well of course it wasn't going to sell, it was on the Playstation 3 last year!" just implies that the people who wanted to play Yakuza already have the means (A Playstation 3) to play it.
The game was not made for people who were going to double dip, it was made for those who were going to experience Yakuza for the first time, the core Nintendo fanbase. There is either; no interest from that said fanbase, that those interested in it already own a Playstation along with their Wii U, or a combination of both.
Regarding the West, that's where this should have been done. Japan was the wrong market to try this "Experiement" with. Yakuza 1 and 2 should have really been "Yakuza 1/2/3/4" and should have released worldwide on the 360 and Wii U. That's how you'd grow a Western userbase.
SEGA West is not interested in growing the Western fanbase. The game failed 5 times, twice on the most successful console of all time, thrice on a console with little to no growth in the franchise's fortunes.
-
Because they needed a cheap and easy way to test the market. And why would they port 3 and 4 when their budget release continue to annually sell 20,000 to 30,000 units?
Yakuza 5 was already getting a hard push from Sony and Nintendo believed they were not quite in a desperate position at the time either, so no one was really pushing for Yakuza 5 to be on a non-Sony platform.
Well you're sort of answering the whole situation there....it's a cheap and easy port. Release a compelling buy and it'll sell. I don't know what else to say. Sega was expecting the public on a system with a 1 million Japanese userbase (so a userbase equivalent in size to the Japanese Xbox 360 userbase) to go crazy over cheap and easy port. Not gonna happen.
The point is there is a massive convergence between Wii U and Playstation 3 owners. Saying, "Well of course it wasn't going to sell, it was on the Playstation 3 last year!" just implies that the people who wanted to play Yakuza already have the means (A Playstation 3) to play it.
I'd agree with that. Yakuza is not one of those games that's ever going to have complete mainstream appeal. It's big for Sega but it's by no means a huge franchise.....The Yakuza series does well on Sony systems but it's never been a multi-million seller. It targets a very specific type of gamer, and that audience already owns it. In Japan. Again, this could have been far more effective in the West, where the audience has plenty of room to grow.
The game was not made for people who were going to double dip, it was made for those who were going to experience Yakuza for the first time, the core Nintendo fanbase. There is either; no interest from that said fanbase, that those interested in it already own a Playstation along with their Wii U, or a combination of both.
Again, you're using the term "the core Nintendo fanbase." Dude, Nintendo fans don't ONLY own Nintendo systems...I mean, I guess that's the case with some Nintendo fans, sure (as it is for any fanbase) but any hardcore gamer who considers themselves a Nintendo fan and who lives in Japan...probably owns a PS3 as well, right? The audience who would ONLY own a Wii and nothing but a Wii...I mean, they probably aren't gamers. They'd never play Yakuza anyway, they probably use video games exclusively to play Wii Fit.
SEGA West is not interested in growing the Western fanbase. The game failed 5 times, twice on the most successful console of all time, thrice on a console with little to no growth in the franchise's fortunes.
Sega still continues to refuse to give these games any sort of marketing push and again, we're in the middle of the series. HD ports of the first 2 Yakuza games would be a good idea in the West....not so much in Japan, where they've been played to death.
-
Well you're sort of answering the whole situation there....it's a cheap and easy port. Release a compelling buy and it'll sell. I don't know what else to say. Sega was expecting the public on a system with a 1 million Japanese userbase (so a userbase equivalent in size to the Japanese Xbox 360 userbase) to go crazy over cheap and easy port. Not gonna happen.
You act as if they had lofty expectations, they made it clear they had very little to begin with.
I'd agree with that. Yakuza is not one of those games that's ever going to have complete mainstream appeal. It's big for Sega but it's by no means a huge franchise.....The Yakuza series does well on Sony systems but it's never been a multi-million seller. It targets a very specific type of gamer, and that audience already owns it. In Japan. Again, this could have been far more effective in the West, where the audience has plenty of room to grow.
Yakuza 1 and 2 are million sellers in Japan.
It by no means a Monster Hunter or Final Fantasy but it seems silly to try and discredit as nothing more than a slightly less niche title.
Again, you're using the term "the core Nintendo fanbase." Dude, Nintendo fans don't ONLY own Nintendo systems...I mean, I guess that's the case with some Nintendo fans, sure (as it is for any fanbase) but any hardcore gamer who considers themselves a Nintendo fan and who lives in Japan...probably owns a PS3 as well, right? The audience who would ONLY own a Wii and nothing but a Wii...I mean, they probably aren't gamers. They'd never play Yakuza anyway, they probably use video games exclusively to play Wii Fit.
Did you even read what I said? Go read it again and don't stop reading it at the core Nintendo fanbase bit.
Sega still continues to refuse to give these games any sort of marketing push and again, we're in the middle of the series. HD ports of the first 2 Yakuza games would be a good idea in the West....not so much in Japan, where they've been played to death.
I have already mentioned all that. However after 5 attempts, SEGA West is not going to try one more time, unless it is just to give what the fans want (Stranger things have happened)
-
You act as if they had lofty expectations, they made it clear they had very little to begin with.
Further making me wonder why they bothered with this.
Yakuza 1 and 2 are million sellers in Japan.
hmm. Well then they've lost about half their userbase when they moved to the PS3 =/
It by no means a Monster Hunter or Final Fantasy but it seems silly to try and discredit as nothing more than a slightly less niche title.
Selling 500,000 is solid. It's a consistent franchise (well, now) but it's not one where a port to another system is guaranteed to sell well just because.
Did you even read what I said? Go read it again and don't stop reading it at the core Nintendo fanbase bit.
I did read your entire post, as I always do. ...Is that false accusation all you have in response?
I have already mentioned all that. However after 5 attempts, SEGA West is not going to try one more time, unless it is just to give what the fans want (Stranger things have happened)
For a company like Sega, that should be a major priority.
-
If Sega really wanted to expand the audience, why not do a port that's a compelling buy? Why not port all 4 games? Why not release a Wii U version of Yakuza 5 on the same day as the PS3 version came out?
Because Sega has an exclusive deal with Sony on any new main RGG titles as well as the past ones that appeared for PS3. No doubt Sony would want to exploit the past PS3 games to draw in new customers for their own collection of the series.
Selling 500,000 is solid. It's a consistent franchise (well, now) but it's not one where a port to another system is guaranteed to sell well just because.
That is usually the sales debut of the PS3 titles and not the overall number of titles sold. YAKUZA is definatly a big gun IP, if it wasn't then Sony wouldn't have bothered to pay for the advertising for the games. Also it was one of the PS3 titles that actually boosted sales for that system in Japan when RGG3 first came out. So its a proven system seller. Which is probably why Sony would want the new version to come out for their system to secure sales.
"the core Nintendo fanbase."
And it seems that not many of them are going for the WiiU at the moment. Maybe its the recession, who knows but they always stick to nintendo only games and hardly frequent out. Nintendo needs more of the people that would buy their games but try other games as well, the middle gamer but it appears that not a lot of them have gone for this new system. And since in japan anyways that they always ignore the xbox systems it seems Sony will win out again. But as i said before, the type of gamer that had no particular alleigence to any company and who would buy a PSx or nintendo game are moving towards digital mobile gaming. that market in japan has grown considerably bigger in the last few years while the console market has retracted smaller and smaller.
If it continues in this fashion then the only company that will really be in trouble is Nintendo as they have nothing to fall back on while Sony and microsoft has other markets to concentrate on. They are taking a risk especially on BAYONETTA since it hasn't proven that its popular enough to be a game that will help sell a game system. Despite the title being a million unit seller.
-
That is usually the sales debut of the PS3 titles and not the overall number of titles sold. YAKUZA is definatly a big gun IP, if it wasn't then Sony wouldn't have bothered to pay for the advertising for the games. Also it was one of the PS3 titles that actually boosted sales for that system in Japan when RGG3 first came out. So its a proven system seller. Which is probably why Sony would want the new version to come out for their system to secure sales.
It's a solid-sized IP but it's not a million-seller, is what I'm saying. It's certainly in the public eye but it's not a growing fanbase.
And it seems that not many of them are going for the WiiU at the moment. Maybe its the recession, who knows but they always stick to nintendo only games and hardly frequent out. Nintendo needs more of the people that would buy their games but try other games as well, the middle gamer but it appears that not a lot of them have gone for this new system.
3rd parties indeed always seem to struggle on Nintendo systems. But honestly I don't think this game would have done well regardless. This HD collection could have been a big occasion had it not come out on the PS3 just this past year.
The Wii U's definitely struggling for a variety of different reasons. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
-
It's a solid-sized IP but it's not a million-seller, is what I'm saying. It's certainly in the public eye but it's not a growing fanbase.
It is a million seller because most of the games peak around that number in Japan. Usually after a few months. The weakest selling game was KENZEN and THE END which probably peaked around 200-450k respectivly. You then add the sales from the west and it tallies up.
-
I think Yakuza 3, 4, and 5 topped at around 500,000-600,000. I could be wrong though. But I don't think any of those came even close to hitting 1 mil.
I also don't think they've sold anywhere near that number in the West.
-
Further making me wonder why they bothered with this.
Because perhaps there was a group who were only bothered with Nintendo consoles. Perhaps Nintendo wanted to convince SEGA there was a market for Yakuza on the platform, why else would they use a large amount of their direct dedicated to it. They both have their answer
hmm. Well then they've lost about half their userbase when they moved to the PS3 =/
The Playstation 3 only has 1 multimillion seller so Yakuza is not alone in this. However Yakuza titles are long sellers, Yakuza 1 and 2 both took around 4 years to get to the million seller mark, Yakuza 3 has done over 600,000 units as of 2010 and that number only continues to grow.
For example in 2010, these were the sales of the Yakuza series.
Yakuza 4 - 577,199
Yakuza 3 - 70,885
Yakuza 2 - 26,045
Yakuza: Kenzan! - 25,208
Yakuza [PlayStation 2 the Best Reprint] - 13,424
It stands to reason to believe Yakuza 3 and 4 will continue to sell for a long time still.
Selling 500,000 is solid. It's a consistent franchise (well, now) but it's not one where a port to another system is guaranteed to sell well just because.
500,000 units is not solid. That's major business. Selling in the region of 100,000+ is considered solid. There were only 11 titles that sold better than Yakuza 5 in 2012, 19 sold better than Yakuza: Dead Souls in 2011, 16 sold better than Yakuza 4 in 2010 and 14 sold better than Yakuza 3 in 2009.
And the Yakuza series is the 8th, 9th, 12th and 19th best selling titles on the Playstation 3 without including the sales of the re-release versions. By all means, believing there was a convergence between Playstation 3 and Wii U users is a valid reason, as well as there being little demand for Yakuza on the Wii U, but do not pretend for one second it is not a major franchise in Japan.
I did read your entire post, as I always do. ...Is that false accusation all you have in response?
"There is either; no interest from that said fanbase, that those interested in it already own a Playstation along with their Wii U, or a combination of both"
Which implies Nintendo fans do own a Playstation 3 along with their Wii U. So what was the point trying to address me on that matter?
For a company like Sega, that should be a major priority.
No, it should not. They priority should be to make sure they are a profitable business. Good public relations with a minority does not make a successful business.
-
SEGA West is not interested in growing the Western fanbase. The game failed 5 times, twice on the most successful console of all time, thrice on a console with little to no growth in the franchise's fortunes.
I thought Yakuza 3 and 4 sold decently in the West? I guess I heard wrong. They shouldn't have bothered with Dead Souls...
Oh well, probably going to need to import Yakuza 5 at this stage.
-
Wasn't Yakuza 4 moderately okay-ish in the West sales wise?
-
I am not too sure about Western sales in general, but American sales are as followed according to NPD.
Yakuza 1: 75,000
Yakuza 2: 25,000
Yakuza 3: 50,000
Yakuza 4: 50,000 (So much over people boycotting Yakuza 3, sales remained exactly the same!)
Yakuza Dead Souls: Less than 10,000 in the first month.
After 5 entries and barely being over 200,000 units is pretty bad. For comparison, Valkyria Chronicles I has done over 130,000 units in America whilst Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F is predicted by SEGA to do at least 150,000 in America.
-
whilst Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F is predicted by SEGA to do at least 150,000 in America.
I don't want to live on this planet anymore.
-
Because perhaps there was a group who were only bothered with Nintendo consoles.
Hmm...chances seem pretty slim. What type of Japanese gamer would you have to be to own ONLY a Wii last gen? Probably not one who would ever buy a Yakuza game....I could have told Sega that. Had this title come out on the Wii U at the same time as the PS3 version, I think it could have done better. But how well do you expect a recent "port-of-a-port" to do?
Perhaps Nintendo wanted to convince SEGA there was a market for Yakuza on the platform, why else would they use a large amount of their direct dedicated to it. They both have their answer
If Nintendo really had a hand in this, then it was a dumb decision on their part. To really have made waves, the new Edo Yakuza game should have come to Wii U.
It stands to reason to believe Yakuza 3 and 4 will continue to sell for a long time still.
Hmm. Interesting. Though I don't think there's much of a hope of it hitting Yakuza 1/2 numbers.
And the Yakuza series is the 8th, 9th, 12th and 19th best selling titles on the Playstation 3 without including the sales of the re-release versions. By all means, believing there was a convergence between Playstation 3 and Wii U users is a valid reason, as well as there being little demand for Yakuza on the Wii U, but do not pretend for one second it is not a major franchise in Japan.
Final Fantasy games and Dragon Quest games sell millions. Their ports don't always even do well.....the audience of ports is fairly limited. Yakuza is a popular Japanese franchise but my point is that it's not one where a port of 2 old games is guaranteed to be a huge success.
Selling in the region of 100,000+ is considered solid.
Considering the fact that Yakuza 4 essentially only "broke even" at the 500,000 mark, (IIRC) I'm not sure how you could even consider labeling a 100,000+ seller on an HD system as "solid."
"There is either; no interest from that said fanbase, that those interested in it already own a Playstation along with their Wii U, or a combination of both"
Ah, I see.
What I said was;
Some people seem to be implying that "Wii U owners" never play games on other systems....I mean, lol, I own a Wii U.
By "some people" I wasn't referring specifically to you.....didn't mean for you to take it as such.
No, it should not. They priority should be to make sure they are a profitable business. Good public relations with a minority does not make a successful business.
For a publisher like Sega, profits come from a dedicated fanbase buying their games. The Total War fanbase is certainly happy with the franchise (and Sega, presumably) and that has been a consistently profitable business for them. That is a dedicated fanbase.
Other aspects of Sega has lost this dedicated fanbase over the years and I'd definitely argue that their games' sales have suffered as a result. Capcom is learning that very same thing; it used to be that many Capcom games were guaranteed at least a certain degree of success by their very name alone. No longer the case. Having a dedicated and happy core fanbase, especially for smaller, more niche publishers, is crucial, IMO, to their continued success.
I know it's brought up continually, but a company like Atlus, like Sega, doesn't always have the money to spend big dollars on marketing. But Atlus' fanbase is almost like its own community, and they reliably buy their games regardless.
-
For a publisher like Sega, profits come from a dedicated fanbase buying their games. The Total War fanbase is certainly happy with the franchise (and Sega, presumably) and that has been a consistently profitable business for them. That is a dedicated fanbase.
Other aspects of Sega has lost this dedicated fanbase over the years and I'd definitely argue that their games' sales have suffered as a result. Capcom is learning that very same thing; it used to be that many Capcom games were guaranteed at least a certain degree of success by their very name alone. No longer the case. Having a dedicated and happy core fanbase, especially for smaller, more niche publishers, is crucial, IMO, to their continued success.
I know it's brought up continually, but a company like Atlus, like Sega, doesn't always have the money to spend big dollars on marketing. But Atlus' fanbase is almost like its own community, and they reliably buy their games regardless.
I said the very same thing but people like TA tried to slam me for it. Sega's fanbase isn't the same fanbase like it was back during their console eras. Modern Sega is effectivly a house full of franchises with a fanbase following only that franchise. The dedicated sega game that goes for any sega game in any genre is very small compared to the fanbase that only plays sonic and nothing else from sega. The same goes for YAKUZA and TOTAL WAR and many others be it originally from Sega or acquired by Sega. The difference with capcom though is Sega never tried to re-unify the sega fanbase in the first place after the DC fallout. Now while this has made the company profitable and one of the big publishers, The sense of a sega identity is lost because their dedicated fanbase isn't being catered to as much and they are failing to get people who play their popular games to play other games they make. Until Sega sorts this out i dont think any new sega or sega second party game can sell solid numbers unless it appeals to an average gamer.
-
When Sega becomes a company whose killer aps are games like Aliens: Colonial Marines, they're not going to end up with any sort of dedicated fanbase.
-
When Sega becomes a company whose killer aps are games like Aliens: Colonial Marines, they're not going to end up with any sort of dedicated fanbase.
They got dedicated fanbases with total war and football manager, man, those two games sell TONS
but yeah, i agree they aren't going to be making a fan out of me either if they keep refusing to localize Japanese games. Sonic is nice, but it's not enough.
-
Those games sell well because of dedicated fanbases, lol. Had both series been created today, they would not be automatic successes because they wouldn't have the benefit of a fanbase who already knows to buy them.
Aki seems to be saying that appeasing their fanbase isn't important for Sega and that profit should be their most important goal. Profit's definitely important, don't get me wrong...Sega needs profit to keep making games.
But short-term profit will mean nothing in the long run if it means an unhappy core fanbase, as a core fanbase are the ones who actually buy the games.
Atlus' games are far more niche than Sega's, yet they never seem to have to worry much about their games bombing.
-
They got dedicated fanbases with total war and football manager, man, those two games sell TONS
but yeah, i agree they aren't going to be making a fan out of me either if they keep refusing to localize Japanese games. Sonic is nice, but it's not enough.
But that's the point. Those are dedicated fan bases for TOTAL WAR and FOOTBALL MANAGER and now COMPANY OF HEROES. But those guys will only buy those titles. There isn't a strong and big enough Sega dedicated base on consoles that would pick up at least more than one sega made game.
-
Did the downloadable games not do well or something? We should have a year like 2012 every year.
-
There used to be....hell, this company used to create video game systems at one point.
Sega really should be aiming to develop hardcore fans again, and for their own IP, not for IP that they purchase.
And no the download games did not do particularly well, if I remember correctly Sega actually made more money off of retail game sales in 2012 than digital....
-
Yeah but that's when they started to transition from retail to digital. Now its kinda the other way round with digital taking the lead. Too bad because there was some solid digital games from that period like the new version of GUARDIAN HEROES and RENEGADE OPS.
-
Actually last year was their big "digital year" so it wasn't much of a good sign for Sega's luck with the digital medium.
-
There used to be....hell, this company used to create video game systems at one point.
Sega really should be aiming to develop hardcore fans again, and for their own IP, not for IP that they purchase.
I like you. We are right. But that won't happen and it makes me sad. :'(
That said, I'd totally buy Yakuza 1&2 HD on Wii. In a heartbeat. All I've got for my Wii U is New Super Mario Bros and Saaanic Racing. Which I apparently suck balls at and got a bit tired of after a while.
-
Hmm...chances seem pretty slim. What type of Japanese gamer would you have to be to own ONLY a Wii last gen? Probably not one who would ever buy a Yakuza game....I could have told Sega that. Had this title come out on the Wii U at the same time as the PS3 version, I think it could have done better. But how well do you expect a recent "port-of-a-port" to do?
If Nintendo really had a hand in this, then it was a dumb decision on their part. To really have made waves, the new Edo Yakuza game should have come to Wii U.
Japan is not a home console market, the previous generation the dominate platforms were handhelds, this generation, and more specfically this year, the Nintendo 3DS and the Playstation Vita are the best selling console this year, so it is possible a person may have owned one console and one handheld. As I said, it was a test for the market to see if anyone who purchased a Wii U would be interested in Yakuza and let's be honest, software sales even for core titles have been abysmal so I am not sure if it did launch with the Playstation 3 version it would do much better.
Ishin may have come to the Wii U at some point, or even further spinoffs to the series, it all is Nintendo trying to court popular titles home console experience on the system, but this performance is not going to encourage SEGA to invest in the platform with this particular brand.
All that it will do is make SEGA ponder why they should even bother with a Wii U version if the demograph already exists on the Playstation 3 with no major expansion coming to the Wii U.
Hmm. Interesting. Though I don't think there's much of a hope of it hitting Yakuza 1/2 numbers.
They will not, but the series has not experienced a 50% decline either, perhaps 20% - 30% decline thanks to Japan shifting from home consoles to portables.
Final Fantasy games and Dragon Quest games sell millions. Their ports don't always even do well.....the audience of ports is fairly limited. Yakuza is a popular Japanese franchise but my point is that it's not one where a port of 2 old games is guaranteed to be a huge success.
The title was never intended to be a hugh success, by most accounts it would have been a failure at the shipment that was sent out (10,000 units) not even 50% of that low target will be achieved.
Considering the fact that Yakuza 4 essentially only "broke even" at the 500,000 mark, (IIRC) I'm not sure how you could even consider labeling a 100,000+ seller on an HD system as "solid."
That was Yakuza 3 which had to develop a new engine at the time. Just like how Gears of War 2 costs a lot less than Gears of War 1 despite having more content, the groundwork was laid out in the previous games. Same with Yakuza 5, most of the work was already done in Binary Domain.
I was speaking broadly, most games in Japan are solid sellers at 100,000+ tend to be handheld titles, but those titles do exist on the Playstation 3 too. Konami's Pro Baseball series, From Software's Armored Core series and Koei's Dynasty Warriors sidegames.
But I do not think budget should have any reflection on what is considered solid sales, Tomb Raider failed to meet turn a profit Square at over 3 million sales, that should not mean that sales considered less than solid, it is exceptional. And Yakuza is consistently one of the best selling series in Japan, calling it a solid seller would be labelling most of Japan's software sales as underperforming.
Ah, I see.
What I said was;
By "some people" I wasn't referring specifically to you.....didn't mean for you to take it as such.
Ah that clears things up.
For a publisher like Sega, profits come from a dedicated fanbase buying their games. The Total War fanbase is certainly happy with the franchise (and Sega, presumably) and that has been a consistently profitable business for them. That is a dedicated fanbase.
Other aspects of Sega has lost this dedicated fanbase over the years and I'd definitely argue that their games' sales have suffered as a result. Capcom is learning that very same thing; it used to be that many Capcom games were guaranteed at least a certain degree of success by their very name alone. No longer the case. Having a dedicated and happy core fanbase, especially for smaller, more niche publishers, is crucial, IMO, to their continued success.
I know it's brought up continually, but a company like Atlus, like Sega, doesn't always have the money to spend big dollars on marketing. But Atlus' fanbase is almost like its own community, and they reliably buy their games regardless.
Capcom is more successful now than they have ever been. Where was this dedicated fanbase to support Okami, God Hand, Viewtiful Joe 2 etc amongst other games?
The same for SEGA minus their hugely successful Mega Drive period.
The dedicated fanbase does not exist on a scale that can support a major company, you go back and see their sales history. People like two or three SEGA franchises but a universal fanbase is and has always been minor.
Nor should SEGA be compared to Atlus. $1 million profit is a major accomplishment for Atlus, to a major company like SEGA it would be considered a failure. SEGA is globally like the sixth or seventh biggest third party publisher, trying to pigeon hole them into Atlus' status is ridiculous since they have four titles that outsell Atlus' whole output whilst a further two titles that usually better the sales of any given Atlus title.
-
Japan is not a home console market, the previous generation the dominate platforms were handhelds, this generation, and more specfically this year, the Nintendo 3DS and the Playstation Vita are the best selling console this year, so it is possible a person may have owned one console and one handheld. As I said, it was a test for the market to see if anyone who purchased a Wii U would be interested in Yakuza and let's be honest, software sales even for core titles have been abysmal so I am not sure if it did launch with the Playstation 3 version it would do much better.
All that it will do is make SEGA ponder why they should even bother with a Wii U version if the demograph already exists on the Playstation 3 with no major expansion coming to the Wii U.
I'm not necessarily saying that it would do *much* better but I'm sure it would have done better. Late ports are almost never successful, almost as a rule. And not only is this a late port, but it's a late port of two ported games. I just don't think the ceiling for its success is particularly high. It's true that games are struggling to sell on the Wii U, but I don't think that this is the game to use as a benchmark.
Sega will likely use this as an excuse for future Wii U support, I agree, but as a rule I don't think that using a game that's been available on other systems is a good means to determine future 3rd party support.
The title was never intended to be a hugh success, by most accounts it would have been a failure at the shipment that was sent out (10,000 units) not even 50% of that low target will be achieved.
I'm certainly not arguing that its sales were low. But how was the marketing? If they only shipped 10,000 units it's clear that they were not expecting success. Did they promote this at all?
But I do not think budget should have any reflection on what is considered solid sales, Tomb Raider failed to meet turn a profit Square at over 3 million sales, that should not mean that sales considered less than solid, it is exceptional.
Tomb Raider (I believe) profited, but Square-Enix was hoping it would do better. But anyway. I feel that the amount of profit a game makes does determine whether it's considered a success or not; afterall, Shenmue sold 1.2 million units, (better than the past few Yakuza games) but the game was cedrtainly not deemed a success.
Capcom is more successful now than they have ever been. Where was this dedicated fanbase to support Okami, God Hand, Viewtiful Joe 2 etc amongst other games?
Well, Godhand received fairly mixed reception; there's only so much a fanbase can do. But the fans kept Okami going, it got a Wii port, a sequel, and a HD remaster. Viewtiful Joe 2 it's true underperformed, I admit. I don't mean to say that a dedicated fanbase is everything but it's definitely something that I feel helps.
SEGA is globally like the sixth or seventh biggest third party publisher, trying to pigeon hole them into Atlus' status is ridiculous since they have four titles that outsell Atlus' whole output whilst a further two titles that usually better the sales of any given Atlus title.
I'm not sure exactly what Sega's spending their money on but their games aren't particularly impressive from a production value standpoint; I actually think they'd benefit from scaling down to Atlus' size, to be honest.
-
If Sega wants to cultivate a fanbase for their entire brand, they should implement some sort of rewards system that motivates consumers to buy all of their games. However, I think it's been their goal to downplay their brand identity over the past several years and just focus on the games. Realistically, like with most things Sega, there seems to be some internal conflict over how to handle this.
The fact that there are Sega fans is mostly a carryover from their arcade and console legacy. It's something valuable that most other publishers don't have -- Nintendo is the probably the only comparable company in that regard... maybe Capcom to a lesser degree. Although their are people who will stick to mostly buying EA games (like some friends of mine), it's not like they have some kind of heartfelt affiliation, they just regard them as being reliable. They can count on a game of some standard level of quality. They are also being pandered to with a safe, ego-stroking, dude-ish EA culture. When you buy an EA game, you get some reassurance that you're "normal." Sega has always been much more volatile, really... able to soar to unequaled heights, but they also burn you sometimes.
-
W101 was almost off the charts as well this week.
-
I always read this thread title as the positive connotation of being "off the charts", then I remember it's a negative and it makes me sad.