SEGAbits Forums
Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Barry the Nomad on March 04, 2015, 11:53:50 am
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http://segabits.com/blog/2015/03/03/sega-is-not-leaving-the-console-market/
I figured George's article deserved its own thread.
The comments count is pretty insane, 34+ at the time of posting this!
Unfortunately, I am seeing a lot of readers missing the point of George's article. It's not about how SEGA handles IPs, or if Nintendo should buy them, or if physical games are better than digital games. It's about the simple fact that several major gaming sites are reporting blatantly false news.
The culprit? It seems all of these article stem from Japan Today: http://www.japantoday.com/category/arts-culture/view/fans-mourn-segas-exit-from-the-console-video-game-market
Who in turn credit Yahoo! News Japan who reported the very same press release we reported, which makes no mention of SEGA leaving the console market.
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You know this is unrelated, but I find japanese comments about Sega interresting.
While usually pessimistic in a typical gamer vein, they don't see them as a company in dire straits, because there, Sega is seen more as a congolomerate that has these big sellers in the Japanese market (Arcades and phones mainly)
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Unfortunately, I am seeing a lot of readers missing the point of George's article. It's not about how SEGA handles IPs, or if Nintendo should buy them, or if physical games are better than digital games. It's about the simple fact that several major gaming sites are reporting blatantly false news.
Unfortunately is always about this barry...at least in the internet, people just dont want to use their brains, they just want to sit there and smell their own farts.
Kudos to George by the way
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You know this is unrelated, but I find japanese comments about Sega interresting.
While usually pessimistic in a typical gamer vein, they don't see them as a company in dire straits, because there, Sega is seen more as a congolomerate that has these big sellers in the Japanese market (Arcades and phones mainly)
Japanese people in general are MUCH more respectful than many others cultures, i can bet than SEGA can be near bankruptcy and People over there would still supporting them and hoping for the best.
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Thanks Mariano :)
Just got tired of people sending me clickbait articles. No big sites where doing their jobs (a few reported it correctly). As for the comments, they are what they are. I'm glad people care enough to comment but at the same time their comments have nothing to do with the article in hand. I guess thats how it goes with comments. I obviously stayed out of the conversation.
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Telling a SEGA fan that SEGA mismanages their IPs is like telling a Star Wars fan that the prequels were a disappointment or telling a Simpsons fan that the modern episodes aren't as good as the classics. WE KNOW!
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Japanese people in general are MUCH more respectful than many others cultures, i can bet than SEGA can be near bankruptcy and People over there would still supporting them and hoping for the best.
Nah not really, on the Internet, japanese anonymous people are the same as everywhere.
It's just that in the west people see Sega as SNK or Midway, which is far from the truth.
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I think the problem with people who wants IP revived or something is that they didn't try or at least search for all the games released by SEGA between 2001-present.
Yeah, you can found bad games but you can also found some really good ones that deserve attention and maybe just maybe you will find the answers about the failling of those games counting mismanaged IP's for sure.
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One thing you need to keep in consideration is the Japanese gaming market skews to the side of mobile games too whilst in the Western there is a strong stigma actual mobile development in the hardcore scene.
Having produced multiple hits in that market, it's easy to see why people are more receptive towards SEGA now in Japan, but go back to the time of the Mega Drive or Dreamcast and their opinions may not have been so positive.
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The funny thing is some hardcore gamers I know play mobile games regularly and still talk shit about mobile games. I wouldn't take what people say online about mobile games too seriously, they are a low investment and high return market now.
Will they die? Sure, maybe, in the future. So will consoles. So, business should do what they do best, strike while its hot.
If you ran SEGA, wouldn't you continue to make games for platforms where people are spending their actual money on?
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If you ran SEGA, wouldn't you continue to make games for platforms where people are spending their actual money on?
A lot of people dont understand this or dont WANT to understand, thats when you know when someome is a fan or not, if they support the company in the bad and good times, or when they only do in the good times.
These people are not fan of SEGA, they are fan of "winning".
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A lot of people dont understand this or dont WANT to understand, thats when you know when someome is a fan or not, if they support the company in the bad and good times, or when they only do in the good times.
These people are not fan of SEGA, they are fan of "winning".
This isn't necessarily true. If Sega is developing shit games, then i'm not going to support that. I won't lie to them and make them think that they'll have my support even when they release crap like Sonic Boom.
As someone who doesn't mind Mobile Games, i don't mind this strategy, it makes business sense, but i also want to see some of these games in the States as well.
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A lot of people dont understand this or dont WANT to understand, thats when you know when someome is a fan or not, if they support the company in the bad and good times, or when they only do in the good times.
These people are not fan of SEGA, they are fan of "winning".
I think it's more the fact that there are people who were fans of SEGA during a certain era (namely the console era) and have since stopped following the company so much, but whenever big news hits - good or bad - that fandom is revived and they have an opinion. Now I'm all for differing opinions, but there is a difference between an opinion based on the facts and an opinion based on falsehoods and assumptions. I'm certain that Japan Today article was seen by several people who were once SEGA fans during the console era, or fans who simply don't keep up on the company, and with it being such big news (despite being untrue) people are going to have thoughts and opinions. Problem is a lot of what I've seen comes from the heart rather than the head, and what is being used to back up those opinions are inaccurate stats and news stories.
Like, I want a new SEGA console and a Shenmue III... but I know full well that a SEGA console is next to impossible and a Shenmue III would have to be produced differently from the way the first two were produced. SEGA cannot simply throw millions at an IP that has proven itself to be a risk. Not to say I'm a better fan than those who bemoan SEGA for not making another console or a followup to a risky IP, but I do think fans need to use their heads a lot more.
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That Shinobi100 guy is doing my head in.... He wants SEGA to be like Nintendo, suggesting to stick to the few IPs that were popular in the 80's and build on them like Nintendo did. And yeah Nintendo have a good thing going for them! They have their 10 or so very popular IPs and they make them well.
en
But if SEGA was doing that, we wouldn't have got 90% of SEGAS best games, Shenmue, Skies, PSO, JSR, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter the list is endless, SEGA works differently to Nintnedo, they constantly try new IPs, new ideas, and even if 95% fail, that's fine with me so long as we get those 5% of SEGA games that fucking rock.
Fuck Nintendos output, I like about 4 of their IP's, SEGA have more disused IPs that I love than Nintendo have IPs at all. And even if it takes another decade for SEGA to pump out another incredible instant classic like Shenmue, I'd rather have that than Nintendos business model of relying on the same IPs.
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This isn't necessarily true. If Sega is developing shit games, then i'm not going to support that. I won't lie to them and make them think that they'll have my support even when they release crap like Sonic Boom.
As someone who doesn't mind Mobile Games, i don't mind this strategy, it makes business sense, but i also want to see some of these games in the States as well.
I agree piro, my problem is with people than dont support the "good" things and just complain about what there is not in the "menu". For example i know some guys who dont stop asking SEGA to release shenmue 3 and then they say that SEGA hadnt release any good game since 2001...that people is the one i am quoting, because in my opinion is people that doesnt care about anything but them, this are the "not" fans.
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That Shinobi100 guy is doing my head in.... He wants SEGA to be like Nintendo, suggesting to stick to the few IPs that were popular in the 80's and build on them like Nintendo did. And yeah Nintendo have a good thing going for them! They have their 10 or so very popular IPs and they make them well.
en
But if SEGA was doing that, we wouldn't have got 90% of SEGAS best games, Shenmue, Skies, PSO, JSR, Panzer Dragoon, Virtua Fighter the list is endless, SEGA works differently to Nintnedo, they constantly try new IPs, new ideas, and even if 95% fail, that's fine with me so long as we get those 5% of SEGA games that fucking rock.
Fuck Nintendos output, I like about 4 of their IP's, SEGA have more disused IPs that I love than Nintendo have IPs at all. And even if it takes another decade for SEGA to pump out another incredible instant classic like Shenmue, I'd rather have that than Nintendos business model of relying on the same IPs.
This "be like Nintendo" happen a lot in the industry, not only with SEGA, but with a lot of others companies that suffer this stupid suggestions...
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This whole "debate" is why I don't discuss videogames outside this forum. People are fucking retard.
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I've also found that there are fans of SEGA franchises who don't identify as SEGA fans, for example I've met one or two Shenmue fans who love the game but are disinterested in anything else SEGA does. I'd argue that so much of Shenmue is SEGA, and to like one but dislike the other doesn't make sense. Like, you love Shenmue, by extension you likely really enjoy the arcade classics included in the game and by extension would enjoy games like Thunder Blade and Fantasy Zone. Then you have the Virtua Fighter connection, meaning if you like Shenmue's combat system, you'd likely love the Virtua Fighter games. Then we have the nods to other SEGA franchises in Shenmue, which in my case led to me seeking out Bonanza Bros and Fantasy Zone because I wanted to see who these characters are.
Though I guess not everybody's experiences with games are the same as mine, but it's a shame fans of specific franchises don't branch out a bit rather than brushing off SEGA titles that aren't from their preferred franchise.
I was mainly a Sonic fan up until 1999 when the Dreamcast introduced me to several new franchises. Now, I prefer Jet Set Radio, JSRF, and Shenmue to most Sonic games and would name Space Channel 5 as one of my favorite franchises.
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To be honest I was mostly a Sonic fan during the 90s and didn't get much into SEGA's other franchises until Dreamcast. Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, PSO, and JSR radio really help expand my interest and appreciate the creative output SEGA had. It certainly has changed over the years, but they're still able to make some great content, though a good portion of that is unlocalized.
I just find it rather annoying that people are willing harp on the bad more so often than when SEGA actually does some good...guess that is the nature of the internet unless you're Nintendo. I respect that Nintendo has their own way, and it works for them, it gives them the luxury some other companies don't have...doesn't mean it works for everyone. Plus it's not like Nintendo doesn't have their own IPs that they ignore (still waiting for another Metroid that's not Other M).
Would I like to see a new game from a previous SEGA classic? absolutely (and I'm thankful that at least like Sumo games that take advantage to include some of these previous franchises), but trying new ideas is also welcomed...even if they don't hit the mark (Binary Domain, Rhythm Thief)
The only thing that SEGA could learn from Nintendo is maybe not to rush out a main series Sonic title and polish ideas/designs/concepts.
On a related note: it amazes me the work people have to go through to get a Yakuza game localized...and people STILL find a way to bitch about it or make an excuse to not support it (too late, what about the spin-offs, why is there no PS4 port, it's digital, I'll wait until it's on sale). Hell, there are people who still think that games get dubbed or still compare it to GTA.
That being said, I thank George for putting this article out there.
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I agree piro, my problem is with people than dont support the "good" things and just complain about what there is not in the "menu". For example i know some guys who dont stop asking SEGA to release shenmue 3 and then they say that SEGA hadnt release any good game since 2001...that people is the one i am quoting, because in my opinion is people that doesnt care about anything but them, this are the "not" fans.
Right, I know some of those people of whom you're referring to. Some of those are actually my brothers of whom think Sega does absolutely nothing now, but publish games..
I try to ignore people like that, ones that don't understand the industry. I'm one of those people who believe that Sega can definitely redefine themselves someday. Although I will admit, 90's Sega to me was prime Sega and after sometime around 06 Sonic or so, I stopped really following the company, as much as I used to.
Gotta admit though, when they announced a digital copy of Yakuza 5 would be released, they got me a little excited again.
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Right, I know some of those people of whom you're referring to. Some of those are actually my brothers of whom think Sega does absolutely nothing now, but publish games..
I try to ignore people like that, ones that don't understand the industry. I'm one of those people who believe that Sega can definitely redefine themselves someday. Although I will admit, 90's Sega to me was prime Sega and after sometime around 06 Sonic or so, I stopped really following the company, as much as I used to.
Gotta admit though, when they announced a digital copy of Yakuza 5 would be released, they got me a little excited again.
There is absolutely no problem if someday you just dont want to be fan of SEGA anymore, the problem come when years later these kind of people appears and claim things like "SEGA hadnt done anything with X or Y IP, so they are shit and everything they had release these last years is also shit" this kind of things dont do nothing more than "sick" the industry, one thing is your decision to not buy a product, and the other thing is to boycott a product on purpose just because you dont like it or because is not what you want it to be...
If you want to stop been a fan of something is OK, but please, dont speak bad on purpose or try to sabotage that thing you are not fan anymore, because is not fair to the current fanbase (Which by the way in part is formed by innocent kids who doesnt have to deal with this...) to "deal" with the bullshit of people who cant live watching how that thing they are not fans anymore still exist without them...
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Most if not all people became fans of Sega just by playing the games that were available and realizing there was one company that made multiple games they like. Then people transitioned into being a fan of the company, learning more about it and the industry in general. Then a certain number of those people went slightly crazy and thought they should have a say in how the company is run, or thought they knew enough to run it better. Maybe so. But there's only one path to actually achieve that and that's to get hired. Beyond that it's all idle speculation on the net, and anyone feeling frustrated with the company should probably go back to just finding enjoyable games to play no matter who makes them. Granted, there might not be anyone making the types of games you enjoy anymore. Such is the nature of business... they have to move on to where the money is being made. Ideally Sega would be able to have some moneymaking ventures, and some more 'artistic' ventures that aren't expected to make much money.
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I guess it'll just be Sonic and maybe the odd title here and there on consoles. Nothing too concerning seeing how the Japanese market has gone to phones (sadly).
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I'd point to Aaron Webber as one of those fans who could have gone slightly crazy, but instead he applied for a job and in turn helped shape the Sonic franchise for a good 5 years or so. While Sonic 4 Episode 1 is not a beloved game, and it really wasn't Aaron's idea for it to exist, I do think the guy did a great job in talking to fans and addressing concerns. Hell, without Aaron, Sonic would hit the edge of the stage and stop after hitting the sign post! lol
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Hell, without Aaron, Sonic would hit the edge of the stage and stop after hitting the sign post! lol
At first upon reading this I thought "wow big fucking doopty doo"
Then I imagined it happening and got extremely aggravated.
thank you based Aaron
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I am curious as to what they'll do with Sonic now. I do agree they needed to slow it down, but the characterisation etc in Boom was just wrong in my opinion.
Dare I say it, but I kinda think a more refined version of the Sonic we had in the early 00's would be good to see. I don't think they were as bad as people made out. They featured platforming and the ability to speed through them with alternative routes once you got to know the levels with replays.
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I have a strange felling about Sony and Sega making an exclusive IP that could possibly be presented in E3.
I don't know exactly why but it's in part for the multiplat Sonic of this year that I think it will be like that because from the beginning the game is has been financed to be multiplatform.
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I find the psychological aspect of joining the gaming industry very compelling. I'm of the impression the work is brutal, the turnover rate is unnerving and burnout is strong. You can work super hard and still get laid off for reasons outside of your control. In fact, I don't get the impression any one individual has a lot of control unless you're in management. I wonder if there's like an identity crisis that happens when a Sega fan works at Sega.
Other jobs out there probably have better security and pay, and are in places that don't feature high costs of living. By necessity, people like Aaron and Julian can't be forthright about this, but I still think it's fascinating.
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I think Aaron did a great job within the limitations of what he was allowed to do. He wasn't in a high-ranking position but he was able to effectively communicate between the fans and those who could call shots, and thereby had a really positive influence. I know in some cases his hands were tied and he couldn't say why certain decisions were made. He took a lot of the heat from the public about the cuts in Yakuza 3 and wasn't allowed to clearly explain why. I commented on the official Sega forum that I presumed it was a situation where they did the best they could with the time and budget opportunity they had at Sega West at the end of that fiscal year, and that was the only way it was going to happen. He replied to the affirmative without crossing the line and explicitly saying it himself.
The executives come and go, not only from other game companies but other businesses entirely. They're not necessarily gamers or even fans of games at all - they've gotten MBAs and business is what they know. Of course they're expected to learn about games and the IPs they have but they're not looking at any of that with the passion of a fan. They have to keep the business alive and growing. They have to make the decision like Peter Moore did to end hardware production to keep the company alive to fight another day, whereas a passionate designer like Yuji Naka has stated (at least at one time) that he would have rather seen Sega go out of business entirely. Imagine Sega sticking it out for a couple more years and then finally shutting down for good in '03 or '04, and all the amazing games we would not have gotten subsequently.
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I find the psychological aspect of joining the gaming industry very compelling. I'm of the impression the work is brutal, the turnover rate is unnerving and burnout is strong. You can work super hard and still get laid off for reasons outside of your control. In fact, I don't get the impression any one individual has a lot of control unless you're in management. I wonder if there's like an identity crisis that happens when a Sega fan works at Sega.
Other jobs out there probably have better security and pay, and are in places that don't feature high costs of living. By necessity, people like Aaron and Julian can't be forthright about this, but I still think it's fascinating.
I think this is the reason we're seeing so many more developers break away from the big model and forming small studios. They have more free reign on what they can do and less pressure from those above. Yeah, they have a budget, but it's workable.
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I really liked aaron a lot.
I always felt that aaron was one of us outside the restrictions from his job. I still kind of wonder why he left though.
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I really liked aaron a lot.
I always felt that aaron was one of us outside the restrictions from his job. I still kind of wonder why he left though.
Perhaps he saw the new concept for Sonic Boom and realised he didn't want to be held accountable for it or deal with the backlash and weird as fuck Sonic fans giving him hassle at conventions. Man, if I was in his position and I saw an early Sonic Boom I'd leave too. Especially after how creepy Sonic fans got a few years back over green eyes...
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Perhaps he saw the new concept for Sonic Boom and realised he didn't want to be held accountable for it or deal with the backlash and weird as fuck Sonic fans giving him hassle at conventions. Man, if I was in his position and I saw an early Sonic Boom I'd leave too. Especially after how creepy Sonic fans got a few years back over green eyes...
(http://don.pesgaming.com/images/smilies/haha.gif)@that last part
Kind of makes you realize why many publishers have "suits" in place instead. Being a fan of the stuff you're working with can only work as long the products are good. Sonic boom wasnt the only questionable decision imo. The whole promotion with danica pattrick was really bizarre as well. I think in hindsight things like that really showed that NOA needed better management