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Gaming => General Gaming Discussion => Topic started by: Phantasos on October 12, 2015, 07:13:39 pm

Title: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 12, 2015, 07:13:39 pm
So a famous Jap gaming magazines asked a bunch of direct questions to prominent directors and producers who work in high profile developers and publishers, Sega included, specifically Satoshi Sakai and Toshihiro Nagoshi.

What were the questions they were asked?

Pretty good ones, specific ones like "When are you making more Panzer Dragoon or Dragon focused games" or "How about Phantasy Star games that aren't MMO shit" or more broad questions like "Is Team Yakuza thinking of new IPs?"

The answers came in all sorts and shapes but really, the collective of it all amounted to a big, resounding and conclusive "Not fucking happening."

Quote
■ Sega’s Satoshi Sakai
Q: Are you not releasing any more games in the Phantasy Star Online Portable series? We want some non-Phantasy Star Online 2 consumer games.
A: There are unfortunately no current plans. If we feel like there is something necessary in the flow of the Phantasy Star Online 2 series, then maybe we’ll make something.
Q: We want to see another game with a dragon lead character like Panzer Dragoon.
A: I would like to make it, but I’m sorry to say we’re in a difficult place for something like that to sell.
■ Sega’s Toshihiro Nagoshi
Q: Is Yakuza Studio considering any new IPs?
A: The basic no comment, but we’re considering it.
Q: Will Yakuza 2 also receive a full remake?
A: First we’ll release Kiwami, and it’ll depend on the response of that.


(http://i.imgur.com/ynmGDSp.gif)


http://gematsu.com/2015/10/dengeki-playstation-creators-questionnaire-level-5-capcom-square-enix-koei-tecmo-sce-more

Here's the link for other questions. The other piece of awesome news is that Capcom gave the same kind of depressing as fuck answers.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2015, 02:14:35 am
Wow what a fucking surprise, a franchise which last came out 13 years ago and sold like shit isn't getting a sequel.
Not only that, dragon games are historically failures, even Crimson Dragon made by ex-PD devs.

Also, why would you want a PS Portable when you have PSO2 and Nova on the Vita (this being a japanese magazine). This is a bait question, since the answer will always be negative.
I'd rather know if there is interest on a big classic SP RPG like PS5 or something. That would be a question worth asking.

The Yakuza ones are interesting.
"I can't respond to that, but yes".
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2015, 02:17:41 am
Btw, not trashing Crimson Dragon, since it looks nice to many PD fans. But the general market responded with a resounding "meh", and I wonder if they got any profit out of it at all
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 13, 2015, 07:24:39 am
Wow what a fucking surprise, a franchise which last came out 13 years ago and sold like shit isn't getting a sequel.
Not only that, dragon games are historically failures, even Crimson Dragon made by ex-PD devs.

Considering when Crimson Dragon first came out, it  was a motion controlled broken piece of shit, I'm surprised the response wasn't worse. Which it was if memory serves. By the time they fixed the game with patches the size of entire games, no one cared anymore. Its failure wasn't indicative that the rail shooter genre is dead, it was indicative that it fucking sucked. Entirely because of Microsoft's meddling, but it sucked non-the less.

No one's saying that it's not a niche genre, it's a fucking rail shooter, it couldn't be more niche but there are still franchises alive in this day and age since they're handled the way they should. Not like a AAA monster hit. There's literally nothing stopping Sega from doing it. But their idea of ROI is something that can only involve millions.

The new IP Yakuza answer is a complete non-answer but it's interesting if only because of that mix we had about a new IP from the Yakuza team before TGS.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Aki-at on October 13, 2015, 11:17:09 am
No one's saying that it's not a niche genre, it's a fucking rail shooter, it couldn't be more niche but there are still franchises alive in this day and age since they're handled the way they should. Not like a AAA monster hit. There's literally nothing stopping Sega from doing it. But their idea of ROI is something that can only involve millions.

I don't think that's really fair, considering Miku only does like 300,000 sales at most, 7th Dragon is on it's fourth game and hasn't managed more than 150,000 in any release. Sonic and Phantasy Star aside, SEGA Japan's biggest series Yakuza barely breaks past 600,000 units in it's homeland, so it's not like their expectations are crazy high.

I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why a Panzer Dragoon game isn't being made anymore but I don't think one of them have to do with crazy expectations, more so to do with the fact the original team is no longer at SEGA and/or they are better off developing other games/series more people are willing to play.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Radrappy on October 13, 2015, 04:58:32 pm
The Yakuza ones are interesting.
"I can't respond to that, but yes".

How the heck did you get a yes out of "we're considering it?"

Look, the basic frustration with current Sega is that they've become too focused on spitting out franchise entries (and of course, that they don't bring their games to the west).  The new Sonic game better be something because I'm currently looking forward to zero of their games.  And no, Persona 5 doesn't count. 
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: George on October 13, 2015, 05:07:49 pm
I don't think there is much of a market for a rail shooter, I mean look at Star Fox Zero, we all just want a basic rail shooter like the N64 one but their adding all this nonsense that people don't want to make it 'fresh'.

Honestly think if SEGA made a mid budget Panzer Dragoon with a good soundtrack, good design and interesting new systems (deeper evolving dragons) it might do well. But in the end, look at Crimson Dragon, it was a huge bomb or look at how many people funded Shenmue 3 on kickstarter (less than 70k and Shenmue is a bigger fanbase than Panzer Dragoon).

I think SEGA should be smart if they bring a game back and doing a new Panzer Dragoon might make us happy, but I'll tell you right now if it bombs hard (which 80% chance it will) it will make them even more conservative than they are now.

As for the typical "LOL SEGA DONT LIKE MONIES!", the era that Panzer Dragoon came out was the era that SEGA started losing a ton of cash.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Radrappy on October 13, 2015, 05:22:32 pm
Honestly think if SEGA made a mid budget Panzer Dragoon with a good soundtrack, good design and interesting new systems (deeper evolving dragons) it might do well.

I think this is a brilliant solution.  It's the same problem big budgeted hollywood movies are having right now.  You don't need to break the bank to make a great game. 

Capcom actually did a wonderful job with Resident Evil Revelations 2.  Bite sized episodic chunks can be released in a way that allows for simpler and cheaper production that still yields great results. 
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Trippled on October 13, 2015, 05:49:08 pm
In 2008, the Orta producer was asked about a new game, and he said: "We haven't considered not to make it"...kinda says alot, by now I'm sure the franchise is completly of their eyes.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2015, 06:36:03 pm
How the heck did you get a yes out of "we're considering it?"
The question was "are you considering", so "we're considering" is a "yes". I don't see the issue
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 13, 2015, 06:37:29 pm
And no, Persona 5 doesn't count. 
"Sega sucks, the only Sega games I like don't count, so it sucks."
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 13, 2015, 06:49:35 pm
I don't think that's really fair, considering Miku only does like 300,000 sales at most, 7th Dragon is on it's fourth game and hasn't managed more than 150,000 in any release. Sonic and Phantasy Star aside, SEGA Japan's biggest series Yakuza barely breaks past 600,000 units in it's homeland, so it's not like their expectations are crazy high.

That's all the more frustrating, though. I know i pulled the old "THEY ONLY MAKE AAA GAMES" argument but they've actually do a lot of mid tier projects with a specific niche. So why the fuck do they pull the "no sales" angle when it comes to a series that's established as their flagship rail shooter series? It's not going to sell much, just make a game according to their expectations, it's how they make Yakuza work. It's a fucking good looking game and it has top notch gameplay but it's obviously a cheaper game compared to GTA or Final Fantasy. Basically what George said.

Except the bit about Crimson Dragon. Once again, that game was sabotaged by Microsoft in every way that counts, whether you're talking about how they forced the game from the 360 to a launch Xbone game, killing the install base to shit, or how they completely butchered the gameplay by forcing them to make the game based around motion controls since Kinect was totally the future or how coupled with both these facts, add a console launch so universally shitty, it made the PS3 look good in comparison. Literally every factor was against it and not necessarily because of the devs themselves. The patches were stretched out in a big period of time and they basically only fixed on thing at a time. It's a pretty good game now but the damage is done. If anything, it's a good case study that showcases everything you shouldn't do with a niche title to begin with.

I don't think there is much of a market for a rail shooter, I mean look at Star Fox Zero, we all just want a basic rail shooter like the N64 one but their adding all this nonsense that people don't want to make it 'fresh'.

That's all optional crap that Nintendo loves to add  just for the sake of giving the idea that they're still "innovators". They did the same thing with Starfox 64 3D but retained the basic controls that made it so great. Starfox 0 has those shitty gyro controls but its main controls are classic. They even hired Platinum Games to help with the core gameplay. I'm not worried about Starfox 0, it looks like a great return to form after all those shitty ideas they had for the series.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 13, 2015, 06:51:33 pm
Why are we even talking about Persona 5? It's a cheap series, it sells by the shit ton, it's relegated to Atlus when it comes to everything that's localizing, publishing and development. No, it shouldn't count because it's his own separate thing. If anything Atlus should teach Sega a thing or two.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Radrappy on October 13, 2015, 07:03:24 pm
The question was "are you considering", so "we're considering" is a "yes". I don't see the issue

I see, I thought you meant to infer they were indeed making new IPS.

"Sega sucks, the only Sega games I like don't count, so it sucks."

Since the discussion is about Sega's track record and future, I don't think any one here would consider P5 as part of the conversation.  It's a great franchise but to consider it reflective of Sega's powers as a development studio would be ridiculous at this point.  It was in development LONG before the acquisition even.   
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: George on October 14, 2015, 02:30:34 am
I'm going to be honest, its weird that they would ask about Panzer Dragoon coming back and not something more marketable like Jet Set Radio. I love rail shooters but they always sell very low. I mean, SEGA did try with Afterburner Climax awhile back and there have been a few rail shooters released around that time.

Do you really think people will pay 40> dollars for a rail shooter?
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 14, 2015, 07:41:14 am
I don't think fans of a series necessarily think what's marketable or not when they ask for a series they like. They're consumers, not marketeers. I'd rather have Panzer Dragoon than Jet Set Radio, although I wouldn't mind either.

It would be nice for a PC port for either of them, considering Sega of Europe's current plan.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 14, 2015, 12:33:58 pm
Either way, P5 is now Sega property. As such it is now a Sega game. The Persona series is now a Sega series, and one most of us would agree should be focused on rather than gambling resourses on two decade old franchises with a fanbase of 4 people
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Draikin on October 14, 2015, 04:43:44 pm
Except the bit about Crimson Dragon. Once again, that game was sabotaged by Microsoft in every way that counts, whether you're talking about how they forced the game from the 360 to a launch Xbone game, killing the install base to shit, or how they completely butchered the gameplay by forcing them to make the game based around motion controls since Kinect was totally the future or how coupled with both these facts, add a console launch so universally shitty, it made the PS3 look good in comparison.
You can add a butchered soundtrack, altered storyline and micro-transactions to that list. Seriously, they took Saori Kobayashi's original Crimson Dragon soundtrack and had someone remaster it to sound like something out of Halo. It was nothing short of disrespectful. Compare these:

Original: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Amxk3yozjKk
Remix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szhrSf29nrE

The original has a definite "Panzer Dragoon" feel to it. The remix feels completely unnecessary, it was altered just for the sake of making it sound more "epic".

As for Panzer Dragoon: Panzer Dragoon Orta is arguably the best railshooter ever made. I'm certain it could be profitable if it were to be converted in HD and sold at around $20. It's true that railshooters aren't in high demand but there's also no competition. Might as well fill the void by porting one of the best post-console era games in their catalog.

A new Panzer Dragoon game is a different story. I agree it'd be hard to sell. And quite frankly, Panzer Dragoon is one of Sega's franchises that hasn't been ruined with poor sequels. Perhaps it's better left alone.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 14, 2015, 06:01:18 pm
Wow, I had no idea they re-purposed the music for western audiences. That's less about the core appeal of the game and more about the integrity of the product itself. Add that one to the list.

I mean, I'm not trying to give the Xbone that much shit as Don Mattrick was dead set in his magnificent incompetence in destroying the Xbox brand as whole and his view of the console was half the reason why the game was butchered. As it is, it's a pretty sweet game, especially with the patched co-op which was an interesting idea. But it was fucked, no denying that. The 360 version was finished and they still didn't release it, all for the sake of the Xbone.

The worst part is that Yukio Futatsugi wanted to make a sequel that would be the equivalent of Panzer Dragoon Saga, a big scoped RPG but since the sales were shit, he was relegated to Phantom Dust and that's pretty much frozen right now.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Radrappy on October 15, 2015, 01:22:12 am
Either way, P5 is now Sega property. As such it is now a Sega game. The Persona series is now a Sega series, and one most of us would agree should be focused on rather than gambling resourses on two decade old franchises with a fanbase of 4 people

I get the feeling lots of people here don't understand how branding works.  Like, at all.

When a studio/company with a strong brand identity is acquired and is pretty much left to its own devices, it doesn't dissolve into the parent company's brand.  It's the reason why no one credits Sega with CA's TW games.  It's the reason no one credits Square Enix with Tomb Raider or Deux Ex.  And it's the reason no one will credit or associate Persona with Sega.  And why should they?  These companies worked hard to carve out names and franchises for themselves long before they were purchased.


And until Sega starts developing games that their brand is known for, it doesn't matter how many great companies they gobble up.  The brand still won't be worth squat in the eyes of the only group that matters : consumers. 
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 15, 2015, 05:57:14 am
That has nothing to do with what I said. Sega needs to make money, that's why it's been restructuring, moving offices, taking long to localize games, focusing on 2/3 games per year, etc.
In that context what do you think Sega should focus resources on: a game produced by a recently aquired studio which has a huge following and expectation behind it, or a sequel to a series abandoned 13 years ago for lack of interest from the public?

You choose.

Another point, with branding in mind: why don't all Sega studios have the Sega name on it? Sega Atlus would be a no brainer. Sega Creative Assembly or something as well.

Fucks sake, a Sega studio is making a fucking Halo game and Sega won't have any credit at all as a brand. What's even the point
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Aki-at on October 15, 2015, 08:29:32 am
That's all the more frustrating, though. I know i pulled the old "THEY ONLY MAKE AAA GAMES" argument but they've actually do a lot of mid tier projects with a specific niche. So why the fuck do they pull the "no sales" angle when it comes to a series that's established as their flagship rail shooter series? It's not going to sell much, just make a game according to their expectations, it's how they make Yakuza work. It's a fucking good looking game and it has top notch gameplay but it's obviously a cheaper game compared to GTA or Final Fantasy. Basically what George said.

Well Panzer Dragoon hasn't had a massively successful entry in what, 19 odd years? (I'll get back to you with sale figures later on) so the company would be hesitant to try another sequel. Besides they're asking a guy who's totally unrelated to the series, part of a development team who has no connection to the series either. I don't think the appetite is there either within SEGA, mostly because most of the original devs have left, to make a Panzer Dragoon sequel. Kodama came up with 7th Dragon and still works at SEGA, ditto with Sawada and his perverted version of Shining and both series are still getting sequels despite sub 200,000.

When a studio/company with a strong brand identity is acquired and is pretty much left to its own devices, it doesn't dissolve into the parent company's brand.  It's the reason why no one credits Sega with CA's TW games.  It's the reason no one credits Square Enix with Tomb Raider or Deux Ex.  And it's the reason no one will credit or associate Persona with Sega.  And why should they?  These companies worked hard to carve out names and franchises for themselves long before they were purchased.

Yeah about that, the American developer behind Deus Ex no longer exist, ditto with the British developer that created Tomb Raider. The new developers were not the one that carved a name for themselves, they built off an established developer thanks to Square's funding.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 15, 2015, 09:29:13 am
Some people might find that Sakai-san worked on Saga, which for many was the best Panzer Dragoon game going and for many if SEGA were to make a new Panzer game then it should be Saga II and not on-rails shooter sequel to Orta .

To me SEGA is right not to make a sequel to Orta or maybe even Saga II - The market isn't there for a AAA Big Budget shooter (which are what the Panzer games were) and it be very risky for a Saga II given that even RPG's don't sell like they used too . More upset that all Nagoshi-san can think of its endless sequels to Yakuza instead of letting what are the best team inside SEGA and best producer inside SEGA make a work on a new AAA IP .

Quote
Fucks sake, a Sega studio is making a fucking Halo game and Sega won't have any credit at all as a brand. What's even the point


SEGA and CA will get credit and a ton of cash off MS and also I'm betting many inside CA are looking forward to work on such a IP in genre they know best
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Radrappy on October 15, 2015, 11:43:28 am
Yeah about that, the American developer behind Deus Ex no longer exist, ditto with the British developer that created Tomb Raider. The new developers were not the one that carved a name for themselves, they built off an established developer thanks to Square's funding.

That's true!  But it still doesn't matter.  Tomb Raider and Deus Ex were such strong brands before they were purchased that the point still stands.  Also, If you're a fan of Square Enix, chances are it's not because of games like Tomb Raider.  The Square Enix brand is also strong and individual. 
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 15, 2015, 12:31:36 pm
That's true!  But it still doesn't matter.  Tomb Raider and Deus Ex were such strong brands before they were purchased that the point still stands.  Also, If you're a fan of Square Enix, chances are it's not because of games like Tomb Raider.  The Square Enix brand is also strong and individual. 

Yep same goes for SEGA and the likes of Relic.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 15, 2015, 06:30:21 pm
Btw, not trashing Crimson Dragon, since it looks nice to many PD fans. But the general market responded with a resounding "meh", and I wonder if they got any profit out of it at all

Finally! A SEGA community where people understand that Sega's IPs just don't profit or make money because this generation doesn't remember or care about Sega's games.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 15, 2015, 06:32:20 pm
Some people might find that Sakai-san worked on Saga, which for many was the best Panzer Dragoon game going and for many if SEGA were to make a new Panzer game then it should be Saga II and not on-rails shooter sequel to Orta .

To me SEGA is right not to make a sequel to Orta or maybe even Saga II - The market isn't there for a AAA Big Budget shooter (which are what the Panzer games were) and it be very risky for a Saga II given that even RPG's don't sell like they used too . More upset that all Nagoshi-san can think of its endless sequels to Yakuza instead of letting what are the best team inside SEGA and best producer inside SEGA make a work on a new AAA IP .


SEGA and CA will get credit and a ton of cash off MS and also I'm betting many inside CA are looking forward to work on such a IP in genre they know best

Development costs for Triple AAA games starting skyrocketing in 2006 and peaked in 2009. Many developers and who publishers who published risky expensive games since then have gone defunct.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 16, 2015, 12:00:07 am
Quote
Many developers and who publishers who published risky expensive games since then have gone defunct.


Like who ? .That's not to say  developers haven't goen bust due to rising costs , loads of them went bust with the move from 16 bit to 32 bit.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 16, 2015, 12:20:46 am

Like who ? .That's not to say  developers haven't goen bust due to rising costs , loads of them went bust with the move from 16 bit to 32 bit.


THQ,Midway,LucasArts,Agetec,Eidos.


Just to name a few, all went defunct during 2008-2013.


Atlus would have closed its doors too, had SEGA not purchased their parent company Index Corporation.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 16, 2015, 05:38:01 am

THQ,Midway,LucasArts,Agetec,Eidos.


Just to name a few, all went defunct during 2008-2013.


Atlus would have closed its doors too, had SEGA not purchased their parent company Index Corporation.

I think you to find the likes of LucasArts  just pulled out and most of those corps were taken over (much like Sega it's self) Only THQ went bust.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2015, 07:29:39 am
Finally! A SEGA community where people understand that Sega's IPs just don't profit or make money because this generation doesn't remember or care about Sega's games.
It infuriates me when people ask for a new Shinobi or Golden Axe or whatever, and ignore that Sega has released new games of the series in the last 10 years that nobody bought.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Phantasos on October 16, 2015, 07:31:11 am
The last Golden Axe game is so shitty and so devoid of everything that makes Golden Axe...Golden Axe, that yes, I still send Sega email about new games. What should be infuriating is thinking that just the shittiest effort ever at making games is somehow enough to satisfy a fan.

The 3DS Shinobi game was pretty good, though. No complaints there. But I still want a PS2 Shinobi sequel.


THQ,Midway,LucasArts,Agetec,Eidos.

Not the best examples since several of those didn't bankrupt themselves out and were just absorbed by other bigger institutions. Midway and THQ did go under, though.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2015, 10:02:25 am
The last Golden Axe game is so shitty and so devoid of everything that makes Golden Axe...Golden Axe, that yes, I still send Sega email about new games.
I would agree, except the original Golden Axe games were shitty when they came out on the MegaDrive as well. Take off your nostalgia-goggles, the gameplay was shit, publications at the time said it as well. (EDIT: I'm excluding the first game from this comment, because it was the best there was at the time, even though not that good anyway)

As for the newer one, it's an arcade hack n slash 3D game. A solid one at that. It was panned for being difficult and reviewers trying to compare it with fucking God of War.
Only big negative would be lack of co-op play, other than that I really don't understand what you expect from Golden Axe... An epic story line and AAA graphics with RPG mechanics? That would be cool, but it would have nothing to do with Golden Axe

EDIT 2 WORTH A READ:
http://web.archive.org/web/20081022043557/http://www.playmagazine.com/index.php?fuseaction=SiteMain.showGamePage&Game_ID=887
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Barry the Nomad on October 16, 2015, 10:16:06 am
The original Golden Axe was never top tier arcade gaming, but it was a damn fine beat em up to play while a bit buzzed.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 16, 2015, 12:17:51 pm
It infuriates me when people ask for a new Shinobi or Golden Axe or whatever, and ignore that Sega has released new games of the series in the last 10 years that nobody bought.


I know. Games like Bayonetta, VC 3, Alpha Protocol,Chromehounds, Journey Into Dreams, Binary Domain ALL were completely ignored by console gamers.


The worst crime and biggest Travesty was Sonic Generations. SEGA put ALL their effort,money,budget and marketing into this and the result: It STILL didn't sell as well as hoped. What sold instead? Call of Duty Modern Warfare. And people keep DEMANDING Sega make a new PS4/Xbox One Sonic game that they know is going to be scrutinized. Transformed is another travesty "We Don't want another Sonic racing game. We don't care how good it is".


Its pretty clear and obvious why Sega Games,Ltd is mostly focused on PC and Mobile titles and wants to find as many IPs as they can to port to PC. These are markets easy to please. Console Gamers today are so picky and finicky that it takes too much effort or money just to make the perfect title. And when it doesn't even sell well, they blame the publisher and not themselves for overgeneralizing it and then turning around not buying it. SEGA's Arcade division Sega Interactive,Ltd also bears watching. SEGA makes its STRONGEST and BEST IPs in the Arcade market, and the fact that Sega is now expanding its Arcade gaming business overseas is a great opportunity to win people back and also puts the prospect of SEGA Interactive,Ltd establishing a home consumer hardware & 1st party software division back on the table. SEGA must take their biggest strengths and show the world that they are a GRAND gaming company and that Arcades are their specialty.






[/size]The original Golden Axe was never top tier arcade gaming, but it was a damn fine beat em up to play while a bit buzzed.



True that. I've been a lifelong SEGA fan since 1991. Golden Axe itself was a typical early 90s beat 'em up that I did kinda enjoy as a kid. Of course it hasn't aged well. Neither has Final Fight. Both were above average and solid for their time. But age definitely hasn't been kind to them.





TThe 3DS Shinobi game was pretty good, though. No complaints there. But I still want a PS2 Shinobi sequel.Not the best examples since several of those didn't bankrupt themselves out and were just absorbed by other bigger institutions. Midway and THQ did go under, though.



Shinobi on PS2 sold dismally. It only did well in Japan, but bombed overseas.


The 3DS version broke even, but that was about it.


As for those publishers, they DID go under. LucasArts wasn't just Star Wars. They made games in the 80s that few people remember like "Maniac Mansion". After selling off their  Star Wars licenses to Disney, LucasArts folded up after 25 years.


Eidos was a publisher for over 15 years. They shut down their publishing and business offices in 2009 selling its main development Core Design to SquareEnix.

THQ had dozens of large IPs, they went bankrupt with "U Draw" their PC development team Relic Entertainment of course was purchased by SEGA.

And yes, Midway is defunct. WB Games is only the remnants of Midway.
In April 2009, Midway was liquidated and sold off piece by piece. Warner Bros Interactive acquired Midway's main catalog. The  Arcade division they had held since 1978 was also dissolved.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 16, 2015, 12:23:01 pm
I agree. The PC market is much kinder to middleware games, which Sega loves to produce. Solid games without AAA status, fun to play.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 16, 2015, 03:03:39 pm
I agree. The PC market is much kinder to middleware games, which Sega loves to produce. Solid games without AAA status, fun to play.




I concur. I do believe that most of the reason is because most of SEGA's hardcore fans are PC gamers and migrated mainly over to Steam.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 16, 2015, 03:53:02 pm
Quote
As for those publishers, they DID go under


Most of them were just taken over , just like SEGA.


As a SEGA fan in the old days there are countless Stuidos that have gone to the wall even in the good old days that I sued to like  . The likes of Technosoft, Lobotomy, Climax Enterainment, BlueSky Software, Warp, Silcon Dreams, Clockwork Tortoise , Zyrinx, Lemon all sadly couldn't pay the billls .


Its nothing new at all


Quote
The worst crime and biggest Travesty was Sonic Generations. SEGA put ALL their effort,money,budget and marketing into this and the result: It STILL didn't sell as well as hoped. What sold instead? Call of Duty Modern Warfare.


You're having a laugh thinking Sonic could sell anywhere near that of COD. In fact the more I read your posts the more I suspect you're a old member with a new name



Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Trippled on October 16, 2015, 04:25:12 pm
In fact the more I read your posts the more I suspect you're a old member with a new name

The Orbi console is real I swear you guys! :/
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 16, 2015, 04:25:53 pm

Most of them were just taken over , just like SEGA.


As a SEGA fan in the old days there are countless Stuidos that have gone to the wall even in the good old days that I sued to like  . The likes of Technosoft, Lobotomy, Climax Enterainment, BlueSky Software, Warp, Silcon Dreams, Clockwork Tortoise , Zyrinx, Lemon all sadly couldn't pay the billls .


Its nothing new at all



You're having a laugh thinking Sonic could sell anywhere near that of COD. In fact the more I read your posts the more I suspect you're a old member with a new name.

I never expected Sonic Generations to sell as strong as COD. Neither did Sega.

They expected it to PROFIT by selling very well and it didn't. They wanted the ROE on its investment and didn't get that back.

As for the publishers like Midway and THQ. No, they didn't get brought out. They filed for Chapter 7 and shut down. WB Games is not Midway. Its what was left of Midway much like Infogrames is what was left of Atari Corporation.

And Sega didn't get brought out. Sammy Corporation became their new parent company after CSK Enterprises shut down.

Again, Sammy is nearly history. Sega Holdings,Ltd will soon assume all public trading duties. Sammy has zero ownership of Sega currently.

And I'm new here. I'm a member of Dreamcast-Talk. I've never been on Sega Bits.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 17, 2015, 03:34:40 am
Quote
I never expected Sonic Generations to sell as strong as COD. Neither did Sega.

Well good, becuase one look at the Sonic sales data see's that since Sonic III, the days of Sonic selling anywhere near COD sales figs are gone. I would expect Sonic Gen made money for SEGA since it sold over a million copies and is one of the better selling Sega games, much better than the likes of Yakuza which also I take it makes money for SEGA 

Quote
As for the publishers like Midway and THQ. No, they didn't get brought out.

The rest did, even SEGA got bought out with Sammy hostile talke over of CSK shares and then buying most of SEGA shares. Did Lobotomy go bust ?, what about Clockwork Tortoise or Sky BlueSoftware ? . Used to love French art and style Delphine still going ?, what about Amazing Studios , Cryo or what about No Cliche not even SEGA could save them.

Corps going to the wall as always happend. 

Quote
Sammy has zero ownership of Sega currently


I love the windup . To get SEGA data one needs to go to Sammy holdings website .



Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: EnternalHope on October 17, 2015, 04:23:13 am
Well good, becuase one look at the Sonic sales data see's that since Sonic III, the days of Sonic selling anywhere near COD sales figs are gone. I would expect Sonic Gen made money for SEGA since it sold over a million copies and is one of the better selling Sega games, much better than the likes of Yakuza which also I take it makes money for SEGA 


The rest did, even SEGA got bought out with Sammy hostile talke over of CSK shares and then buying most of SEGA shares. Did Lobotomy go bust ?, what about
Clockwork Tortoise or Sky BlueSoftware ? . Used to love French art and style Delphine still going ?, what about Amazing Studios , Cryo or what about No Cliche not even SEGA could save them.

Corps going to the wall as always happend. 


I love the windup . To get SEGA data one needs to go to Sammy holdings website .




Sonic Generations had a $59 million dollar budget. In order to profit, it needed to sell at least 4 million units worldwide. It fell short of its projections.


Sammy Corporation purchased Sega Corporation's shares on October 3,2003. They soon allotted a merger for 2004 so that Sega could pay off its $3 billion dollar debt and continue to operate as a software publisher and Arcade vendor. Sammy had little to no say over SEGA or its business. They were its parent company and investment holder. On August 26,2010, Haijime Satomi dissolved nearly all of Sammy's subsidiaries(Except Taiyo, Sammy Networks and Phoenix resort) and divisions and sold SEGA all of Sammy's shares,bonds, and equity. He basically had Sammy absorbed into Kabushiki Kaisha SEGA. The listed divisions of Sammy on the Sega Sammy wikipedia page is outdated.


As of April 1,2015, Sammy Corporation remains  the Panchinko division and Wholly Owned Subsidiarity of SEGA Holdings,Ltd.


http://sega.co.jp/ (http://sega.co.jp/)

There's little left of Sammy. Sammy Networks is now under the SEGA Holdings wing as the sister mobile division of Sega Networks. Pretty soon, Sega will have a new division take over Sammy's business operations since they have virtually no capital left. The Sega Live Creation,Inc division may be that new division.



https://trademarks.justia.com/790/40/sega-sammy-79040246.html (https://trademarks.justia.com/790/40/sega-sammy-79040246.html)

http://sega.co.jp/corporate/profile_business/ (http://sega.co.jp/corporate/profile_business/)



NEW HOLDER/REPRESENTATIVE OF AN INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATIONSERIAL NUMBER: 79040246


The table below presents the data as entered.

Input Field

Entered
OVERVIEW
INTERNATIONAL REGISTRATION NUMBER
0928831
EFFECTIVE DATE OF MODIFICATION
06/08/2015
NOTIFICATION DATE
09/10/2015
HOLDER DETAILS
CLIENT IDENTIFIER
623742
NOTIFICATION LANGUAGE
ENGLISH
NAME
SEGA SAMMY HOLDINGS INC.
ADDRESS
Shiodome Sumitomo Building,
1-9-2 Higashi Shimbashi,
Minato-ku
Tokyo 105-0021
COUNTRY
Japan
ENTITLEMENT NATIONALITY OF APPLICANT/TRANSFEREE/HOLDER
Japan
LEGAL NATURE
Not provided
LEGAL NATURE: PLACE INCORPORATED
Not provided
CORRESPONDENCE INDICATOR
YES
REPRESENTATIVE GROUP
CLIENT IDENTIFIER
816963
NAME
NAKAZATO Kouichi
ADDRESS
A-TOM Kojimachi Tower 5F,
4-4-7, Kojimachi,
Chiyoda-ku
Tokyo 102-0083
COUNTRY
Japan
MISCELLANEOUS INFORMATION
IB DOCUMENT ID
899499801
OFFICE REFERENCE
79040246
TRANSACTION TYPE
MAN - CHANGE OF REPRESENTATIVE

Sega Holdings,Ltd was formed as a different umbrella under the Sega Sammy group. Meaning, Sega Holdings will assume all trading and Holding duties of Sega Sammy once they open for public trading. With US Registration of Sega Sammy cancelled, the International Registration of Sega Sammy's IB business in the WIPO will be allowed to expire in December 2016, 10 years after International Registration was issued.



Again, the changes won't take place until Sega Holdings,Ltd begins public trading on its own.
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 17, 2015, 06:52:11 am
Didn't take too long for the true reveal. Not going to get involved with your nonsense
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: crackdude on October 17, 2015, 07:59:18 am
(http://static.tumblr.com/c7f55a82be273d90dd1ae2a9840f4f94/mbb2wao/xHzmnup1h/tumblr_static_it_was_me_dio.jpg)
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: pcm92 on October 17, 2015, 10:36:13 pm
I would like to see a Mario and Sonic game where they work together, instead of fighting each other. That would be tremendous!
Title: Re: The future of Sega game development, condensed in a few questions
Post by: Team Andromeda on October 19, 2015, 03:03:09 am
I would like to see a Mario and Sonic game where they work together, instead of fighting each other. That would be tremendous!

I couldn't see how that would work tbh . Sonic was made to be everything Mario wasn't. Sonic The Lost World really tries to be a Mario game and it doesn't really work or feel like a Sonic game for me , even though it's a nice game in its own right