SEGA Networks

[Sharky]

But so what? I don't get the concern with micro-transaction... Yeah some developers are sleazy with it and ask for too much but there is a very good balance where it's not really an issue, you can be great at the game and get to the end without paying a single penny... As in the game is entirely free, and that's bloody brilliant... I mean if you pirate everything then I guess it has no affect on you, but getting a pretty damn great game like TW for free makes me very happy!

I don't know why people feel so conned... Previously you'd have paid what? £25 at least for a brand new TW game, very probably more! Now you can download it free, try it out free and if you don't like it then fuck it off at no cost to you at all... Alternatively if you like it you can also play to the end at no extra cost... And if you like it enough to play to the end why is it such a bad thing to buy some in game items or currency or whatever and actually pay the developer for a game they've slaved over and allowed you to have free?

Personally I think f2p is one of the best developments in gaming history... Especially for online games like TW:Kingdoms or PSO2 because theres no risk of the server becoming a ghost town, its open to everyone.

[Team Andromeda]

Wow, it's getting pretty heated in here. You guys want to cool it

Cool what exaclty?  , Its pretty clear who's doing the insults

Anyway, even if you don't like gaming on phones, most of these come out on Tablets and PC too

PC there's no issues . Tablets well even on them its hard for most of the games than most harden games like to play imo  really how can one play a FPS or the likes of Yakuza on a tablet with no buttons ? . I mean I had that Demon Tribes for SEGA and while it had lovely art and some rarther nice music, it was pretty crap to play not that one could play it long before SEGA West stopped supporting it.

I don't know why people feel so conned... Previously you'd have paid what? £25 at least for a brand new TW game

I much rather pay £50 and have all the levels and stages open to me . I hate DCL and F2P models myself  for major game title

[MadeManG74]

But so what? I don't get the concern with micro-transaction... Yeah some developers are sleazy with it and ask for too much but there is a very good balance where it's not really an issue, you can be great at the game and get to the end without paying a single penny... As in the game is entirely free, and that's bloody brilliant... I mean if you pirate everything then I guess it has no affect on you, but getting a pretty damn great game like TW for free makes me very happy!

I don't know why people feel so conned... Previously you'd have paid what? £25 at least for a brand new TW game, very probably more! Now you can download it free, try it out free and if you don't like it then fuck it off at no cost to you at all... Alternatively if you like it you can also play to the end at no extra cost... And if you like it enough to play to the end why is it such a bad thing to buy some in game items or currency or whatever and actually pay the developer for a game they've slaved over and allowed you to have free?

Personally I think f2p is one of the best developments in gaming history... Especially for online games like TW:Kingdoms or PSO2 because theres no risk of the server becoming a ghost town, its open to everyone.

But you aren't getting a traditional Total War for Free. You're getting this game for free which is utterly and completely different. And if it's built around micro-transactions the aim is probably not to be fun, but rather to make the game as tedious as possible until you pay money to stop it being tedious.

I'm not saying the game will definitely be like that, but I'm cautious about it now. I might try it for free, but the minute it starts impeding me with a pay-wall I'm dropping it. I'd rather pay a lump sum and have a game that's designed for me to enjoy it rather than extort me to pay more.

THAT is the business model I'm afraid of. What did you have in mind for Free to Play? I'm thinking you're picturing an old Share Ware style model where you can get the first bit of the game free and then pay for the rest if you like it? Like a demo?
From what I've read it will NOT work like that.

I was really hoping this would be a 'pay once, play' game. As soon as I read it was going to be free to play but with micro transactions in game I lost almost all hope I had.

As for this game looking great, how do you think it compares to other Strategy games on PC that are similar but built from the ground up to be paid games instead? Total War Battles looks good, but I'd rather buy Age of Wonders 3 or something if it's going to have invasive monetization.

I would really like to see them make a 'Premium' game I can buy that's say, $10 or $20 (not sure what they are aiming for in this game) and then a Free version that has the micro-transactions. I would go the pay up front model any day. Although these payment options are usually tied strongly to the game design so I doubt it would work well at all.


EDIT: Also I'm not trying to be difficult or negative, if that's how I'm coming off. I just do have a problem with this pay model and I'm trying to explain why I have concerns over it, especially in relation to this game.

[Sharky]

But you aren't getting a traditional Total War for Free. You're getting this game for free which is utterly and completely different. And if it's built around micro-transactions the aim is probably not to be fun, but rather to make the game as tedious as possible until you pay money to stop it being tedious.

That's a pretty bold assumption... That they're not planning on making a fun game. Feel free to drop it whenever you please and at no extra cost to you. That's exactly why free to play is so good.

Perhaps you wont like it, perhaps any time the option to paying money comes up you suddenly feel like your being conned and sometimes with some games that WILL be the case. But not all free to play games work that way and not everybody feels so betrayed when they do. I was over the moon when they announced PSO2 was free to play, because nothing is restricted the only thing people even pay for is costumes which have no effect...It's a brilliant idea. And if we ever got the bloody it would have been even better. But that's another story.

[George]

Mademan, when I said publishers should get together and make a store to sell games, I sorta mean't  physical copies of games (with digital since they are there) like Amazon. For example: In Amazon, you can have all your digital games redeem on origins or steam or even direct downloads. I think if they really want to take the money out of use sales, they would be better directly selling and directly buying from consumers. Companies like Gamestop already take 20% or something of the sale when its all said in done and a higher % when it comes to used games. Use that a % of sale per publisher to run the store and allow publishers to take a higher percentage for themselves. Shoot, having all these publishers in one store could mean easier access to merch and more eyes on merch that they might not have cared about. Like casuals on Sonic gear or Assassins Creed crap.

But yeah as for mobile gaming, I agree the dislike for f2p microtransactions but the shit part of it is that most hardcore gamers don't even try games before already hating them. Its pretty sad. Everyone pretends that microtransactions = waiting like Simpsons Tapped Out or something and most games aren't run like that. Even sadder is that they don't show up and support good releases that are pay to own, so most publishers go back to f2p and the cycle continues leaving gamers supporting ancient devices. Dedicated gaming machines won't last long and even Nintendo sees this.

Here are some good games with no microtransactions:
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC1jHHF_Wjo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yts5gbBEyeQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtS8zHoqZUk

While this does have 'buying packs' of cards (optional), it shows you that you can take a huge PC game and take it mobile with an app.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgwS3S0Knzk

[MadeManG74]

That's a pretty bold assumption... That they're not planning on making a fun game. Feel free to drop it whenever you please and at no extra cost to you. That's exactly why free to play is so good.

Perhaps you wont like it, perhaps any time the option to paying money comes up you suddenly feel like your being conned and sometimes with some games that WILL be the case. But not all free to play games work that way and not everybody feels so betrayed when they do. I was over the moon when they announced PSO2 was free to play, because nothing is restricted the only thing people even pay for is costumes which have no effect...It's a brilliant idea. And if we ever got the bloody it would have been even better. But that's another story.

I'm thinking they want to make the game addictive over fun, because it's addiction that gets you dropping money again and again.

I think my fears are warranted as looking at beta reviews they've already mentioned you wait literally hours for your soldiers to 'heal' and to 'craft' upgrades for your troops OR you can just buy them with 'Gold' which will be the micro transactions. Even to buy stronger units you need to use 'Gold' which farms very slowly or is paid for.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/300080/

This is why I'm worried. I never had to wait hours to build a unit of Praetorian Guards in Rome Total War, nor did I have to fork out $2 through paypal to buy that temple in my city.
This is also what I mean by the game not designed around 'fun' rather than extortion.
"Hey, if you want to progress, you'll need this. You can wait hours for it and grind away...OR just skip that and pay for it".

Here's an extract from one review for example:

Pay-To-Win:
In the tutorial, battles were fast, building built in minutes. After the tutorial, it's a different story. I was quickly slammed with a 9 hour wait time.

That's not designing a fun game, that's designing a skinner box.

As for the gameplay, most accounts are that the battles are overly simple, probably due to touch-screen controls. Reviews also mention this plays nothing like TW, closer to Civ/AoW which is what I thought (and that's fine).

Sorry, but I've lost nearly all interest in this game, it doesn't sound very good, and if I want a 4X game i'll get Civ or AoW for PC.

[Sharky]

Okay then that's absolutely fine, but do you have to be in every topic about these kinds of games if you're not into them? I'm excited for the game, I see it's not a normal TW that's blatantly obvious but it makes no difference to me. I think it looks great, and if it is great I have no problem putting down a bit of money now and again, since I got it free anyway.

[MadeManG74]

Mademan, when I said publishers should get together and make a store to sell games, I sorta mean't  physical copies of games (with digital since they are there) like Amazon. For example: In Amazon, you can have all your digital games redeem on origins or steam or even direct downloads. I think if they really want to take the money out of use sales, they would be better directly selling and directly buying from consumers. Companies like Gamestop already take 20% or something of the sale when its all said in done and a higher % when it comes to used games. Use that a % of sale per publisher to run the store and allow publishers to take a higher percentage for themselves. Shoot, having all these publishers in one store could mean easier access to merch and more eyes on merch that they might not have cared about. Like casuals on Sonic gear or Assassins Creed crap.

I know what you mean, but I don't think it could work. Primarily because all the publishers getting together is such an unlikely proposition. Not to mention most have little to no retail experience. When you take into account they would lose physical presence as well I don't think it's feasible.

And if you think Gamestop is bad, you should see the terms grocery stores have with their vendors, it would make you cry.

But yeah as for mobile gaming, I agree the dislike for f2p microtransactions but the shit part of it is that most hardcore gamers don't even try games before already hating them. Its pretty sad. Everyone pretends that microtransactions = waiting like Simpsons Tapped Out or something and most games aren't run like that. Even sadder is that they don't show up and support good releases that are pay to own, so most publishers go back to f2p and the cycle continues leaving gamers supporting ancient devices. Dedicated gaming machines won't last long and even Nintendo sees this.

Here are some good games with no microtransactions:

Monument Valley sounds interesting, and I've seen that on Steam as well. I guess my biggest issue, and probably the same thing as most gamers you mentioned, is that I just don't play much on phone because I wouldn't play it at home when I have better hardware, and on the bus or train I'd often rather read or listen to music. Or if I am playing a game, a $5 game like KoToR will last me half a year because I only play so little on the phone anyway. Why would I keep buying more games or new releases?

Okay then that's absolutely fine, but do you have to be in every topic about these kinds of games if you're not into them? I'm excited for the game, I see it's not a normal TW that's blatantly obvious but it makes no difference to me. I think it looks great, and if it is great I have no problem putting down a bit of money now and again, since I got it free anyway.

I didn't realise I was causing that much ruckus, but this topic is about Sega's mobile games isn't it? This is a game I was previously excited for, but not any more and I'm explaining why.


I only mentioned it plays nothing like TW because you kept saying things like

Previously you'd have paid what? £25 at least for a brand new TW game, very probably more! Now you can download it free, try it out free and if you don't like it then fuck it off at no cost to you at all

Which is not true. It's simply not a Total War game, which again is fine with me, but I just wanted to point that out.


If you think it looks great, that's cool. I might even try it myself for free and see what I think, continually paying money or waiting 9 hours before I can play again doesn't sit well with me, especially if the game will be designed around this idea meaning I think I'd have more fun forking out $45 for Age of Wonders 3 and playing that instead.

[Berto]

Back to the topic, it looks like CIEL ARK is finally successfully reaching 1 million downloads..
... or 100.000? I can't tell since it's in Japanese.

Source : http://sega-net.com/release/150403_10572.html