What Toshihiro Nagoshi would've done before games

[Aki-at]

Giant fat, getting humongous discussion quote

@Risktaking Risk taking is happening hardware wise, but that isn't necessarily a good thing. Regardless I am not into gaming for the hardware I am in it for the software.

@Merger I also understand that a merger needed to happen, I would have preferred it with someone else, but I get that it had to happen. I am just saying that stuff figuratively, as a what-if. I also understand Valkyria's sales situation, but I mean that I want it on the Nintendo handhelds (3DS) over the PSP, not necessarily home consoles. Should have been more specific about that, sorry.

@YourDreamcaststance I love the Genny period, and agree that it was probably Sonic Teams' best, though I love them all, still I think that SEGA had a lot more variety during the Dreamcast era because they broke their studios up into separate entities. I know there isn't as much variety on Dreamcast as Genesis given its' entire lifespan, but I mean for the time the devs were given on 'Cast it was pretty damn amazing given how little time there really was.

@Cubecomment, yeah we are getting a lot of good announcements, I think even Cube is excited for some.

@DoctorWho I know I do  8-) .

@Risktaking I was not talking about hardware, but software. Homefront cost THQ $50 million and it's failure has hit them hard. This is the problem when even "safe" software has become a major risk.

@Merger I'm not sure there was any better option (Bandai and Namco have infighting, Enix ceased to exist completely, Microsoft would have butchered everything etc) the only issue I really saw with the merger was the change that occured in SEGA's organization, but this is down mainly because outside of AM2 and Sonic Team, everyone was losing money, so only those two remained how it was. A major SEGA game in NA didn't even do more than 5,000 units in sales... It was a terrible terrible time.

@Dreamcast I'm not so sure if the pool would be larger for the DC in terms of chose, the Genesis really had it all even in such a short period. I did a comparision of only console games and SEGA's output during the Dreamcast era was similar to what they have currently, whilst when I looked at the Genesis era, they really had a larger library in any given year.

[tarpmortar]

@Risktaking I was not talking about hardware, but software. Homefront cost THQ $50 million and it's failure has hit them hard. This is the problem when even "safe" software has become a major risk.

@Merger I'm not sure there was any better option (Bandai and Namco have infighting, Enix ceased to exist completely, Microsoft would have butchered everything etc) the only issue I really saw with the merger was the change that occured in SEGA's organization, but this is down mainly because outside of AM2 and Sonic Team, everyone was losing money, so only those two remained how it was. A major SEGA game in NA didn't even do more than 5,000 units in sales... It was a terrible terrible time.

@Dreamcast I'm not so sure if the pool would be larger for the DC in terms of chose, the Genesis really had it all even in such a short period. I did a comparision of only console games and SEGA's output during the Dreamcast era was similar to what they have currently, whilst when I looked at the Genesis era, they really had a larger library in any given year.

Homefront wasn't risky, it was stupid, it failed because it was crap. The entire plot was crap, gameplay was below average and the advertising campaign was really corny and poorly received. The sales were fine, and are nearing 2 million. The reason it harmed their stock price was because the metacritic score was low.

http://http://www.computerandvideogames.com/293711/news/homefront-review-scores-cause-thq-share-slump/

It was a risk in that it was stupid to ever leave a game with a over-bloated budget in the hands of a mediocre studio whose last game averaged in the 70's as well. This isn't exactly the 'risk-taking' I meant. The game was never going to have anything redeeming about it.

When I say risk I mean innovation, niche, unique and special. Name something special about Homefront? I can't think of anything, it was shite.

@Merger, I get that it had to happen, I am yet again speaking hypotheticals. Though in the realistic instance that it had to happen my dream merger would have been a company like Capcom or Konami, note that I said dream merger. I doubt either company could have afforded SEGA's losses.

@DCERA A lot of stuff is missing from the Dreamcast era, if not in name, in quality; Sonic has decreased in quality (though that looks to be reversing), Space Channel 5, Rent-A-Hero, Rez, Skies of Arcadia, Shenmue, Chu Chu Rocket on a real platform (not iOS, real platforms have buttons), Sega Rally/GT, Fighting Vipers, HotD (on home consoles), Jet Set Radio, if you count arcades Super Monkey Ball has dropped in quality. If we are counting releases from when SEGA was independent still we are missing Panzer Dragoon and Shinobi. We are also missing SEGA Sports.

Furthermore, when discussing that their release lists per year were more impressive on Genesis in regards to number of games made available you have to take into account that 3D game development takes longer than 2D and is more intensive.

[Aki-at]

Homefront wasn't risky, it was stupid, it failed because it was crap. The entire plot was crap, gameplay was below average and the advertising campaign was really corny and poorly received. The sales were fine, and are nearing 2 million. The reason it harmed their stock price was because the metacritic score was low.

http://http://www.computerandvideogames.com/293711/news/homefront-review-scores-cause-thq-share-slump/

It was a risk in that it was stupid to ever leave a game with a over-bloated budget in the hands of a mediocre studio whose last game averaged in the 70's as well. This isn't exactly the 'risk-taking' I meant. The game was never going to have anything redeeming about it.

When I say risk I mean innovation, niche, unique and special. Name something special about Homefront? I can't think of anything, it was shite.

I'm not calling Homefront special, I'm not even calling it good. But investing such a large sum of money must be considered a huge risk, what I am trying to say and thanks to the move to HD, budgets have increased massively, regardless, games that should be considered safe are now huge risks.

@Merger, I get that it had to happen, I am yet again speaking hypotheticals. Though in the realistic instance that it had to happen my dream merger would have been a company like Capcom or Konami, note that I said dream merger. I doubt either company could have afforded SEGA's losses.

Personally, I'd rather no merger occur, at least with the merger with Sammy, SEGA was not forced to publish games and have resources relocated to certain IPs, like Bandai has with Namco.

@DCERA A lot of stuff is missing from the Dreamcast era, if not in name, in quality; Sonic has decreased in quality (though that looks to be reversing), Space Channel 5, Rent-A-Hero, Rez, Skies of Arcadia, Shenmue, Chu Chu Rocket on a real platform (not iOS, real platforms have buttons), Sega Rally/GT, Fighting Vipers, HotD (on home consoles), Jet Set Radio, if you count arcades Super Monkey Ball has dropped in quality. If we are counting releases from when SEGA was independent still we are missing Panzer Dragoon and Shinobi. We are also missing SEGA Sports.

Depends on personal opinion really, I feel SEGA Rally in 2007 was a fantastic title, Overkill is my third favourite in the series, I never had much love for Rez, Valkyria has become the premier RPG series for SEGA, Shinobi has now probably been replaced with Bayonetta, obviously you have the yearly Yakuza releases that I think is SEGA's second best series now, Space Channel 5 has been replaced probably by Hatsune Miku, SEGA's sports titles are now unfortunately a Japan only affair (But Football Manager exists outside of Japan) Monkey Ball at the arcade seems to still retain it's usual quality, but if we start talking about arcades you have to include Border Break, R-Tuned, Virtua Fighter, Shining Force Cross etc infact SEGA has a larger arcade output now than any part of the history excluding the mid 90s. Of course a lot of stuff is missing in name from the Dreamcast era, the same happened with SEGA Saturn titles in the DC Era, and Mega Drive titles in the Saturn era and so on.

I'll try expanding this later. Gotten rather late for me.

Furthermore, when discussing that their release lists per year were more impressive on Genesis in regards to number of games made available you have to take into account that 3D game development takes longer than 2D and is more intensive.

I understand, but if we do start talking about variety than the Mega Drive has it beat, the advantage of being able to make games with 10 people.

But I also do consider those Mega Drive games mostly better designed than the Dreamcast ones.

[tarpmortar]

I'm not calling Homefront special, I'm not even calling it good. But investing such a large sum of money must be considered a huge risk, what I am trying to say and thanks to the move to HD, budgets have increased massively, regardless, games that should be considered safe are now huge risks.

That's the thing though, it was never considered safe. THQ was penning hopes on a studio that was largely unproven and had only worked on one game before, that was not well received, nobody thought it was a good idea. The thread on Neogaf was filled with people making fun of the games' plot and questioning Kaos' ability to deliver. Most predicted it would flop or be poorly received.

Personally, I'd rather no merger occur, at least with the merger with Sammy, SEGA was not forced to publish games and have resources relocated to certain IPs, like Bandai has with Namco.

This is what I said originally  :| I wish there wasn't a merger at all, but it did have to happen. I think Capcom would have treated Sega in a better manner than Sammy did. I also don't think Capcom would have been able to afford to take on Sega though.

Depends on personal opinion really, I feel SEGA Rally in 2007 was a fantastic title, Overkill is my third favourite in the series, I never had much love for Rez, Valkyria has become the premier RPG series for SEGA, Shinobi has now probably been replaced with Bayonetta, obviously you have the yearly Yakuza releases that I think is SEGA's second best series now, Space Channel 5 has been replaced probably by Hatsune Miku, SEGA's sports titles are now unfortunately a Japan only affair (But Football Manager exists outside of Japan) Monkey Ball at the arcade seems to still retain it's usual quality, but if we start talking about arcades you have to include Border Break, R-Tuned, Virtua Fighter, Shining Force Cross etc infact SEGA has a larger arcade output now than any part of the history excluding the mid 90s.

Alright, let us not count Monkey Ball in the arcades, we will count it during the period of time that SEGA was a independent third party, published it for GC, and had not yet been taken over by Sammy. I loved Rez, Hatsune Miku is licensed and not original like SC 5. Bayonetta is not developed by SEGA, it is developed by Platinum. I know people here like to count them as part of SEGA but the fact is they will someday leave to another publisher unless sega makes a smart move and absorbs them. When they leave we will be without a action series that is the quality of Shinobi or Bayonetta. Valkyria is a SRPG, not a traditional JRPG the likes of PS, Skies or Surging Aura. I love Valk, the third game is being worked on outside of SEGA so I hope Sega WOW is working on a new IP or reviving an old one.

I understand, but if we do start talking about variety than the Mega Drive has it beat, the advantage of being able to make games with 10 people.

I might agree with this, I guess, but the Genny had nothing like Space Channel 5, Cosmic Smash, Rez, Jet Grind Radio, Chu Chu Rocket, PSO or Shenmue.

[George]

I went to a show in San Francisco and there where Homefront ads everywhere... all I could ask was... "wtf is homefront?" This is a person that is on gaming sites all the time too.