So... Has anyone noticed... (Sega/Sonic related)

[George]

No one pats Microsoft in the back for Halo series? They own the IP, they are continuing it with Bungie. They call it 'Microsoft's juggernaut'...

Really, Halo was a bad example.

[Centrale]

I just don't know, this seems like some sort of mental complex without a solution.  It's like only being a fan of the 1985 Chicago Bears and not believing that the current Chicago Bears are the real Chicago Bears.  Maybe it's 1985 that you're really missing.

[George]

Both publishers and developers are the reason a product turns out the way it does. I'm just sick of people saying 'SEGA did this game wrong' and when a game is great, its like 'Its not a SEGA game'.

Example: The developers of Alpha Protocol said the game was mishandled and that SEGA would force them to change direction on ideas and add a ton of stuff.

Thus, publishers do have influence in a game. Do you think a game like Bayonetta and Vanquish would be the same with EA or THQ?

[Radrappy]

no, but when PG and Sega part ways, what happens then?  I'm not saying publishers don't have influence, they obviously do.  I'm just trying to give credit where credit is due.  So that we we say "yay Sega," it's Sega that actually deserves it.

Both publishers and developers are the reason a product turns out the way it does. I'm just sick of people saying 'SEGA did this game wrong' and when a game is great, its like 'Its not a SEGA game'.

There's nothing to argue about.  Even if Sega gave some creative input regarding bayonetta, kept their hands off of vanquish or otherwise acted as a "good publisher", they still did not make the game.  Is it a sega game?  Yes sure.  Sega owns it.  But before you cite Vanquish or Bayonetta as one of the good sega games of last year, you need to realize that this does in no shape or form represent Sega reclaiming some of their status as a developer.  Which is what they are always criticized for.  Developing.  

The reason I lumped creative assembly in there is because no one in their right mind would credit Sega for the creation of their games.  There's a reason they're always cited as separate entity.

[Pao]

The reason I lumped creative assembly in there is because no one in their right mind would credit Sega for the creation of their games.  There's a reason they're always cited as separate entity.

Creative Assembly Australia was just renamed to Sega Studios Australia, name does not mean much, its still a Sega team, and Total War is Sega developed.

[CrazyT]

I thought bungie moved on and halo still belongs to microsoft? If so than yeah, halo is indeed a bad example. It's like ecco the dolphin being made by acclaim and so on

[Radrappy]

But when people talk about how well made the halo games were, the credit goes to Bungie.  In fact it's an issue as to what will become of the franchise now that they're gone.  Which is the same thing that will happen if a new bayonetta/vanquish were to be announced post Sega and PG split.  People will groan now that development is in Sega's hands.  This is the kind of thing that needs to be repaired.

I mean, take the recent success of Total War.  In the IGN review, sega isn't mentioned once.  It's as if they don't exist.  You can blame IGN if you want, but the truth is that public sentiment does not recognize sega as having any part in the matter.    

http://pc.ign.com/articles/115/1156095p2.html

[Sharky]

I think it is fair to say that sometimes publishers have very little to do with the development of a game. Take Sega and the Alien vs Predator game. That game was pretty much finished by the time Sega got involved and all Sega really did was act as a means to get the game to stores.

But with the Platinum Games deal it is more of a partnership, whilst PG of course make up the majority of the development team I simply don't think games like Bayonetta, MadWorld or Vanquish would have existed with out Sega being involved. Sega funded the projects and unlike most publishers Sega kept their nose out and did very little to stifle PGs creativity, letting them run wild with their imagination.

Not to mention Sega developers DID help in the development of these games and Sega owns the IP. To me this really does make it a Sega game... Just like Virtua Fighter is an AM2 game but it is also a Sega game. Sure Sega doesn't own PG but I have a feeling even if they did you wouldn't accept it as a Sega game.

Total War... Is a Sega game through and through, though.

[Radrappy]

It just seems like instead of fixing what's wrong with the teams they already have, they're making partnerships with/buying other developers instead.

Total war was a mega popular established franchise long before Sega got involved.  How is it a sega game through and through?

Anyway, regardless of what you think, Sega's position in the gaming community has really not changed despite the success of PG or Creative Assembly.  If it's not that people don't consider them "Sega games" then what is it?

[Sharky]

It just seems like instead of fixing what's wrong with the teams they already have, they're making partnerships with/buying other developers instead.

Total war was a mega popular established franchise long before Sega got involved.  How is it a sega game through and through?

Anyway, regardless of what you think, Sega's position in the gaming community has really not changed despite the success of PG or Creative Assembly.  If it's not that people don't consider them "Sega games" then what is it?

Jeez man you are really desperate to hate Sega.

They aren't buying teams to substitute bad internal teams, Sega have always had western teams... Even in their so called 'heyday' there were 2K Sports and many others.

What’s so wrong with the current teams anyway? I've played some pretty great games from Segas internal teams recently... Heck even Sonic Colours was great.

[Radrappy]

Aw don't get me wrong.  I definitely think things are on the up and up.  Sonic colors was great and PSO2 seems like it could be promising.  I guess It just seems like things have gotten creatively stagnant for a while now.  Sega hasn't developed a new, exciting IP since Valkyrie(2008) and Yakuza(2007).  And generally, sega as a whole has disappeared from the spotlight.  I don't want to hate sega, but I miss it when they were real contenders for quality with some AAA titles.  Now a days we're lucky if they release a solid to good game.  I just think in this discussion about how a lot of people mistake Sonic's reputation for the companies, it's just as important to not mistake PG's(and to an extent, CA's) success for Sega's.

[Sharky]

While I agree there hasnt been anything in the way of exciting NEW IPs recently developed in house, I'm not really bothered... If anything I would rather they went back and made some sequals to my favourite games of the past.

I'm really not bothered that Sega aren't the big thing in the spot light right now, frankly to be the big thing would mean they really aren't anything like Sega anymore...

First Person Shooters are BIG NEWS right now, Western RPGs, Gritty Sci-Fi, GTA clones set in the wild west... Dancing and sims.

I would much rather Sega continue to be like Sega, make great arcadey games, great JRPGs... Invest in very Japanese publishers that make great games like Bayonetta and Vanquish, which, if you ask me... Feel like Sega games.  

Right now all I want from Sega is a return to form for the Sonic games and I believe that things will instantly be looking up for the companies reputation.

[cube_b3]

Hopefully, obsessed Sonic fans who ONLY think of SEGA as the Sonic company have been reading SEGA's blogs in hopes to spot Sonic news, only to discover other properties like Vanquish, Total War, VCII, PSO2, etc.

It's important to recognize the difference between a Sega game and a game Sega's publishing.  The success of platinum games as a developer really does nothing to improve Sega's reputation as a developer themselves.

Best thing I've ever read on the forum to date!

You have my respect.
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For those who are trying to give SEGA credit for PG's game as far as I know (and I maybe wrong cause I don't religiously read PG news), SEGA was responsible for porting Bayonetta to PS3, where as PG made the 360 game on their own.

From what I've read the PS3 port is inferior to PG's design, and the SEGA references they added in to their games was there own ideas. SEGA only gave permission.

That isn't to say SEGA teams don't work closely with published games for example SUMO Digital, SEGA teams work very closely with them on the games they make or port, in fact the entire model of Gillius Thunderblade was done by Makato Uchida's team (stated by SOL way back).

___________________________

Lastly other than Stimulus (money), SEGA has no involvement in TOTAL WAR or the other studio... Sports Interactive.

Mike Hayes openly stated SEGA saw money to be made in a segment, and bought out the best developers in that segment.

If SEGA were able to hire Miyamato and the rights to MARIO. It wouldn't qualify as a SEGA game (at least not for fans, from a legal standpoint obviously it will be a property of SEGA, just like Total War)

As a fan I think SEGA development criteria includes something fresh or a fun spin on the tried and tested. For example GTA Mafia-esque game inspired franchise Yakuza. It mixed the gameplay of SpikeOut (running on Shenmue engine) with the mafia stories of GTA, only instead of the Mafia you had Yakuza.

Targetted at the GTA demographics but 100% SEGA.

So what is SEGA about Total War other than the legal paper work?

[CrazyT]

I think it's as simple as the developers being recognized and getting all the credits for making the game, but that doesn't keep them from being SEGA games.

It's like saying every Sonic game made by DIMPS is not a SEGA game. DIMPS are the ones that get trashed for doing such lousy jobs or complimented, as  they are recognized as the developers, but that doesn't mean they're not SEGA games

[Grant360]

Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive are 100% SEGA studios! Ok they are purchased but they are internal development. Platinum games is not a SEGA studio. But SEGA owns the Bayonetta and Vanquish IP's. It's that simple. Bayonetta being good can only be a good thing for SEGA...