SEGA at E3 2013

[Team Andromeda]

Was NiGHTS his or Ilzuka's idea? Perhaps Billy Hatcher is Naka's

Naka-san came up with the flight idea and to break away from SONIC but it was Iizuka-san that came up with the dream concept and the score attack system - Nights is his baby.  Billy H I'm sure is Nakamura-san baby like Samba De Amigo is also his.

It's far more offputting if people like Ryuta Ueda, Kikuchi, Kodama, that Typing of the Dead director produce products like Kingdom Quest, Brain training, generic RPG's, iOS games etc. seemingly products to benefit from current domestic trends to boost the companies revenue....

Its an utter waste of talent and for SEGA there is no excuse with its massive Teams and far bigger budgets than the likes of small start up's like Prope.

[Aki-at]

Eh, I doubt he intented it to be his last game.

I find it far more offensive when Sega put their highest caliber developers like Kodama, or that one director of Panzer Dragoon Orta, on producer roles of externally developed handheld only to be released in Japan. Or having Ohba to do Medal/Card Arcade games...it's rather disgusting imo.

The majority of the Japanese industry now makes their bread and butter on handhelds so what is exactly insulting about it? Though with the medal/card games its hard to tell, but the Sengoku series are major arcade titles so I honestly think it depends on a game by game basis.

Though I agree certain people's talents are being wasted on SEGA Networks, but since it's feeding the company's bottom line not much will change. It is worrying overall as I believe the mobile market is too volatile to try and build a consistent business on.

[jonboy101]

But there should be a balance between the bottom line and art. What they've done is the equivalent of putting Van Gogh out on some filthy little beach to draw caricatures for tourists.

As I understand it, Sega has several games they release annually that will sale at least one or two million, and a few that are at least bankable. Sega therefore has room to start taking some risks and advertising their games so that they might have even more profitable games. Perhaps good games.

I find it so insulting that Crimson Dragon has to be made. That has so many implications to me. So what if Panzer Dragoon wouldn't make all its money? That's not what it's for, at a point. It is art, and should be continued, and the team should continue to make products, for art's sake. Games like Warhammer can make up the difference. No one will remember Brain Trainer or even something like 7th Dragon in a decade. Things like Valkyrie will be.

In the long run, it will hurt the company, as well. Those quick dollars on Marvel, and Aliens, and Golden Axe have done unbelievable harm to this company. It will kill the company's reputation, and dissuade people from buying from them.  And I wouldn't blame the consumer. I personally trust a lot of companies more than Sega at the moment. I have a good idea that a game by Capcomor Nintendo will be good, because they have a reputation for excellence. Sega once did, too. I bought from them unquestioningly. For a while, though, it was like fifty dollar Russian Roulette, with five chambers loaded. I just don't trust them anymore. That's the price they decided to pay for solvency.

Art games can do well. Just ask Team Ico. Sega just needs to risk some advertising dollars. Not all of them do; but that's why Sega has all these goddamn RTS games: to provide a net.

Ancient American proverb: "You gotta spend money to make some money."

[Trippled]

The majority of the Japanese industry now makes their bread and butter on handhelds so what is exactly insulting about it? Though with the medal/card games its hard to tell, but the Sengoku series are major arcade titles so I honestly think it depends on a game by game basis.

Though I agree certain people's talents are being wasted on SEGA Networks, but since it's feeding the company's bottom line not much will change. It is worrying overall as I believe the mobile market is too volatile to try and build a consistent business on.

It depends on the handheld game, I think most RPG's published on the DS we aren't too interrested in...like those Mystery Dungeon games, Chunsoft games etc. Stuff like Rhythm Thief is totally fine.

Even if certain gambling/card/medal games are big in Japan it's still a waste...it's not what we want to see them working on, at least with traditional Arcade games you know that they continue their work like they did before. Did you know that music legend Mitsuyoshi did only Music for stuff like gambling-sims  after Shenmue?

[ROJM]

Other games sell like crap even after wowing the press and public and various shows ....

The likes of IGN, GameStop all had the SEGA heads giving interviews and were giving great write up on SEGA games with many of them saying Orta looked wonderful and pushed the X-Box like no other game .  They we good times when SEGA all on 3 next gen systems had great games to look forward too and the SEGA teams pushing each of those system with great gfx.

And yet they best game to Kingdom hearts IGN included. Not hardly what i call stealing the show. Now I see you keep going on about two E3's yet failed to name ones after that. This generation they really haven't done anything special at E3. Were also now seeing games being revealed outside of the event by Sega. Now get use to it. Obviously Sega hasn't seen E3 as an important event to sell their games in the long run. And it isn't. As you yourself keep mentioning about games wowing the event and not selling. Of course as usual it doesn't show anything of sega wowing and stealing the show. Which is the point.   

The likes Epic have come out and said the Wii U can't handle their next gen engines - so on that front there's going to be a huge gulf for Wii U games;more so when the teams shut down their 360 and PS3 piple lines to focus on next gen development and unlike MS and SONY who's console are still selling well and their games make up the charts , The Wii is nowhere . On all fronts (other than the Handheld) Nintendo is in trouble and is losing marketshare and 3rd party and retail support .

And? There was a huge gulf of third party support when the Wii first appeared until the system started to become the market leader and most of them jumped on board. You keep bringing up older cheaper systems as an indication of the WiiU's failure when older systems have always sold better compared to a new system on the market. That's no indication that the WiiU is going to fail in the future.

SEGA has bothered with E3  people like you used to post about how much floor space SEGA used to request for E3 . My beef isn't with you, it's  with SEGA and SEGA poor showing; the lack of any talk of next gen engines and games for the next gen.  If SEGA wants to be a serious player it needs to up its game or it will only ever be a bit part player and a company remembered and talked about more for its past times , rather than current or future titles .

No its with me or you wouldn't have slandered me like you did in your initial post about E3. And you know full way i don't defend Sega blindly if i did then the whole saturn SOJ/SOA argument would never have happened or my criticism of their marketing tactics.

As for the rest? Sega needs to up its game? You won't find me disagreeing with you on that front. Across all the board. But i'm not going to worry or get angry about their lack of faith in a show which they haven't bothered to do properly for over a decade. I dont understand why anyone even expected something from them this year when you compare and look at their recent track record at the event. And were all starting to see some announcements of new titles(whether they will be big games or japan only games) already. And the live event Q/A session with Nagoshi talking about recently announced games may also have a hidden suprise. Dont fret about it it isn't worth getting worried about it anymore.

 

[ROJM]

But there should be a balance between the bottom line and art. What they've done is the equivalent of putting Van Gogh out on some filthy little beach to draw caricatures for tourists.

As I understand it, Sega has several games they release annually that will sale at least one or two million, and a few that are at least bankable. Sega therefore has room to start taking some risks and advertising their games so that they might have even more profitable games. Perhaps good games.

I find it so insulting that Crimson Dragon has to be made. That has so many implications to me. So what if Panzer Dragoon wouldn't make all its money? That's not what it's for, at a point. It is art, and should be continued, and the team should continue to make products, for art's sake. Games like Warhammer can make up the difference. No one will remember Brain Trainer or even something like 7th Dragon in a decade. Things like Valkyrie will be.

In the long run, it will hurt the company, as well. Those quick dollars on Marvel, and Aliens, and Golden Axe have done unbelievable harm to this company. It will kill the company's reputation, and dissuade people from buying from them.  And I wouldn't blame the consumer. I personally trust a lot of companies more than Sega at the moment. I have a good idea that a game by Capcomor Nintendo will be good, because they have a reputation for excellence. Sega once did, too. I bought from them unquestioningly. For a while, though, it was like fifty dollar Russian Roulette, with five chambers loaded. I just don't trust them anymore. That's the price they decided to pay for solvency.

Art games can do well. Just ask Team Ico. Sega just needs to risk some advertising dollars. Not all of them do; but that's why Sega has all these goddamn RTS games: to provide a net.

Ancient American proverb: "You gotta spend money to make some money."

The bottom line is really this. The Japanese management have no clue how to run Sega. That has and always been the case so far. I thought with a few stock holders i use to know thought it might change but it hasn't but as long as they're making their money they don't care. Sega has really been a dominant and progressive company when Rosen was in charge of the company and then when SOJ took on Kalinske the company grew again under his direction allowing for Sega japan to make all sort of investments which they ended up screwing up. Recently with Hayes being in charge of Sega europe and then the entire sega west operation, he made good investments which are still paying off for Sega and helped the company surly start to climb back up the scale, but unfortunately for him he was still cleaning up Jeffery's messes(although he did help the company gain a good market share in the states) and he ended up getting fired/resigned due to a game we now realized should have been cancelled with the rest of Jeffrey's failed sega projects. Its probably about time that they hired a westerner to become COO of Sega overall. At least someone who knows what they're doing and not a glorified yes man. Let the SOJ developers do what they do best make great games and let someone else outside of japan run the business end. Its no coincidence that all of Sega's successes when it came down to business was when they had an westerner in charge.

As for the games. The games you mentioned do well in japan. That's the point and the problem that most people here are n't realizing and aren't addressing. When SOJ first stormed into the third party scene in the west, most of the titles that they released failed. The other half got canned. The games that they released in Japan however didn't. And because they were strapped for cash the management obviously wanted more focus on a market they they were being more successful in. But that has now lead to what we have here with sega failing to compete in creating a western style title or a game that has international appeal. The reason Sega themselves haven't addressed it is because in ther current gen certain key titles didn't perform the way they should have done this generation, they went into a market that they were doing well in but was growing at the time they entered it. The mobile/digital market. and now were seeing way too much focus on these type of games, the majority of them never being released in the west. it seems instead of fighting to get market share by creating a strong  game like they use to they semi abandon the market and focus on what is doing well for them. That's what happened when they focused on using too many western studios to recreate their old Ip as well as new Ip for them. That's what semi happened when they hired Platinum.  And that's what were seeing now with the PC market focus in the west. It may be good in the short term but without any actual Sega games to compliment these acquisitions, Sega as i said before has become a company of different game franchises and not a company that has a unified fanbase who are into Sega the company.

And unfortunately with the amount of money they do get, its wasted. Half the games they were making before they all got canned during 2012 weren't that expensive for AA to B level games. The problem was the sheer amount of games that they were financing to make, add the whole Platinum deal and a shaky bad report later and it went belly up. The problem with this is the fact that sega isn't a first party anymore they are a third party now. And they should act accordingly. Part of the reason why Konami and Capcom are successful is because they only concentrate on a small number of games and spend their resources on titles that are designed to hit big. They don't have to supply on a huge number for console, a huge number for digital and have subsidiaries making or buying other iPs which they have to pay for to continue development. Sega's corporate mentality is of what they were and not what they are. BINARY DOMAIN was an excellent game, but thinking about it, it was a game that came out at the wrong time. Considering that half the other companies have something lined up and ready to show, BD should have really been released and made for one of the next gen systems and not for the current systems. When you think that Nagoshi has something in the works for the PS4, it all seems like it was a waste of time. BD probably would have had a better chance if it was released as a launch title rather then coming out now. Also the fact that when it was originally scheduled to release it was originally going to be released in the same period of ALIENS COLONIAL MARINES another FPS style game which ended up being pushed back and of course was horrible but the point is Sega shouldn't have had two big games rivaling each other coming out at the same time in the first place. While i liked the SegaXPlatinum deal to be honest that was redundant in the situation sega was in. A deal like that would have worked if Sega was still making their own systems and wanted to attract new users to a game similar but not made by their competitors. Something they did in the past with the Contra like ALIEN SOLDIER. But the fact that sega was a third party it was a move that wasn't needed especially when the sega fans that would slavishly buy this type of game in the past was few and far between and would have perferred that Sega themselves tried to make a game of that caliber. In the long run that dal had mixed results anyway. If they just cut the number of game sthey actually produce and concentrate on a few titles outside of their franchises they do make they may see different results.

It also doesn't help when the management continues to invest in turkeys like that movie studio that are making movies that no one gives a shin about and still failing to ultilise their assets that they do have like TMS and Mazda. Why can't Sega make a game of a TMS property that TMS actually owns? How come Mazda can't make a  movie based on a sega IP or create a ip movie that sega can exploit? Any other company would have done this years ago and they have, look at what Sony has done and they didn't even own Final Fantasy. And knowing Sega by the time they do want to make a PANZER DRAGOON game it wont be unique because there will be other similar games that will have been made and better exploited by then. Until the management changes in japan were all going to suffer with this incompetence for a long time yet.

[Aki-at]

Jon, I am not sure what the cause of the outburst was, but I never said I was keen with the direction SEGA was taking, I was just resigned to the fact it is what it is and until they hit a major block then they will continue working on iOS titles. When SEGA improves again or make a worthwhile game, I will be there to support it.

However I would disagree on lambasting a title like 7th Dragon (After all, what makes Skies of Arcadia less insulting to Kodama's career than that title?) or how they should focus on art games. I would rather have a continuation of the Shinobi formula than a sequel to Rez or any artsy games SEGA has made. You talk about Valkyria being remembered a decade later thanks to its artistic nature, but a decade later both Shogun and Rome are remembered for their excellence in their genre and that is what SEGA should do above all else, be excellent in the genres they produce a game in.

It depends on the handheld game, I think most RPG's published on the DS we aren't too interrested in...like those Mystery Dungeon games, Chunsoft games etc. Stuff like Rhythm Thief is totally fine.

Even if certain gambling/card/medal games are big in Japan it's still a waste...it's not what we want to see them working on, at least with traditional Arcade games you know that they continue their work like they did before. Did you know that music legend Mitsuyoshi did only Music for stuff like gambling-sims  after Shenmue?

Like I said it depends on a game to game basis. From what I have seen of 7th Dragon, I see nothing that should deem it an insult on anyone's career. Outside of perhaps pandering too much to one particular crowd, Kodama and imageepoch have crafted a game that would be liked by jRPG fans.

Likewise with the card games, it depends on a game to game basis. Code of Joker looks great for what it is whilst Love and Berry is terrible, it just comes down to the games and should not be judge solely on genre or type of game.

Also I believe Mitsuyoshi did music for SEGA Rally 2006, Feel the Magic, Maimai and Operation G.H.O.S.T amongst many other things, infact this is probably his career highlight...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ge5cIusac0g

[jonboy101]

Oh, I didn't mean that as an attack or an outburst. It's more exasperation with the company. I hope you didn't take offense! I'm sorry if I came off that way.

I think something like 7th Dragon, while I'm sure it's a solid game, doesn't exactly stand up well to her past. The woman behind treasures like Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia being relegated to brain trainers and portable gaming is a bit insulting, at least to me. She's one of their top talents; she should be getting a big budget to make RPGs. It isn't that I have a problem with 7th Dragon, per se. I have a problem with the First Lady of RPGs making dungeon crawlers while Sega gives wads of money to Tri Ace or to buy some half assed studio in California for its half assed tech. 7th Dragon is fine if she's working on other games, too. I'm annoyed that isn't the case.

I think Shogun and Rome are great games. I think that they're also beneficial to the company in that they provide good press and a solid reputation. I think they have artistic merit, and I'm glad Sega produces them. I would go so far as to say that Creative Assembly, Sports Interactive and Relic outshine the Japanese teams at the moment.

 I think 7th Dragon is fine for what it is. But it would be, to me, comparable to Nagoshi working on that bank game and doing little else for five years. I wish she could make a solid, big budget game. I wish Sega would let their remaining talent actually do something instead of playing it safe. If the Sega if today had existed in the early 90s, things like Virtua Fighter and Sonic and Virtua Racing would never have happened. Too expensive and too risky.

Incidentally, I'm actually rather happy that the bank game is Nagoshi's. It's two new franchises in as many years.

[ROJM]

You talk about Valkyria being remembered a decade later thanks to its artistic nature, but a decade later both Shogun and Rome are remembered for their excellence in their genre and that is what SEGA should do above all else, be excellent in the genres they produce a game in.

Yes but its not really a game Sega produces. Its from a studio that Sega brought. Its a sad state of affairs if Sega themselves won't be remembered for actually creating a solid game in 20 years time and all they're remebered for is churning out TOTAL WAR and FOOTBALL MANAGER.

[Barry the Nomad]

I never thought it was accurate or fair to lessen the greatness of the Total War and Football Manager (and now Company of Heroes) titles because they weren't born inside SEGA. It's like we're going back to that "SEGA DNA" nonsense, where a game needs to have certain "SEGA-ish" elements in order to be a proper SEGA title. It's like some sort of game racism... "gameism?"

Not published in Japan? Strike one. Not originally conceived in-house? Strike two.

Honestly, I think anything The Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive created under SEGA's ownership are games SEGA have produced. A SEGA employee is a SEGA employee. Just because a studio and IP are bought by SEGA doesn't mean that the employees and the titles created under SEGA's ownership are somehow lesser than those at Sonic Team or Ryū ga Gotoku Studio. I'm proud to list off a name of studios and say "The Creative Assembly" and "Sonic Team" in the same sentence.

Probably one of my favorite moves by SEGA recently was the inclusion of Shogun and Football Manager in All-Stars Transformed for PC (wish they were on consoles too...). Really made them all feel like they were of the same family (which they are).

[ROJM]

I never thought it was accurate or fair to lessen the greatness of the Total War and Football Manager (and now Company of Heroes) titles because they weren't born inside SEGA. It's like we're going back to that "SEGA DNA" nonsense, where a game needs to have certain "SEGA-ish" elements in order to be a proper SEGA title. It's like some sort of game racism... "gameism?"

Not published in Japan? Strike one. Not originally conceived in-house? Strike two.

Honestly, I think anything The Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive created under SEGA's ownership are games SEGA have produced. A SEGA employee is a SEGA employee. Just because a studio and IP are bought by SEGA doesn't mean that the employees and the titles created under SEGA's ownership are somehow lesser than those at Sonic Team or Ryū ga Gotoku Studio. I'm proud to list off a name of studios and say "The Creative Assembly" and "Sonic Team" in the same sentence.

Probably one of my favorite moves by SEGA recently was the inclusion of Shogun and Football Manager in All-Stars Transformed for PC (wish they were on consoles too...). Really made them all feel like they were of the same family (which they are).

I would have thought you know where i stand in that debate. That's not what i'm saying. The point is Sega should be remembered for the type of games that they are famous for. If were all going to say TW is all they can do then it is a sad state of affairs because Sega was built by the type of games like Sonic OUTRUN and so many "Sega DNA" titles. As part of the Sega family that TW has now become its not what Sega was built on. If SOJ continues to take a back seat and not even remotely create the type of games that they are envied for like PANZER DRAGOON, SHENMUE and BINARY DOMAIN, then what is the point? I dont want Sega to be just remebered for making and continuing to produce great TW games. I'd like them to be remembered for making and continuing to create great innovative titles from their main studios as well.

[Trippled]

To me the RTS games are the equavilent to the 2K sports series.

Like when Sega West lost the sports licence in 04' they looked elsewhere and they chose the PC RTS market.

[jonboy101]

I never thought it was accurate or fair to lessen the greatness of the Total War and Football Manager (and now Company of Heroes) titles because they weren't born inside SEGA. It's like we're going back to that "SEGA DNA" nonsense, where a game needs to have certain "SEGA-ish" elements in order to be a proper SEGA title. It's like some sort of game racism... "gameism?"

Not published in Japan? Strike one. Not originally conceived in-house? Strike two.

Honestly, I think anything The Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive created under SEGA's ownership are games SEGA have produced. A SEGA employee is a SEGA employee. Just because a studio and IP are bought by SEGA doesn't mean that the employees and the titles created under SEGA's ownership are somehow lesser than those at Sonic Team or Ryū ga Gotoku Studio. I'm proud to list off a name of studios and say "The Creative Assembly" and "Sonic Team" in the same sentence.

Probably one of my favorite moves by SEGA recently was the inclusion of Shogun and Football Manager in All-Stars Transformed for PC (wish they were on consoles too...). Really made them all feel like they were of the same family (which they are).

It's not as though I feel like they're not great games. I just find it frustrating that Sega has to buy great studios because the ones they have in Japan are rubbish. And I know that's not why they were bought (good studios, expand Sega's profile and so on), but it seems sort of implicit to me.

I feel like they're part of the family, but in the States it feels like they're the only part of the family worth seeing at times. And it's not as though Sega really did anything. They bought a studio and let it keep doing what it had been doing. No ingenuity. They're Sega employees, but they'd have likely done the same things had they stayed with Activision (save, of course, their upcoming Aliens and Warhammer games, which I'm pleased to see).

When a bunch of Namco guys joined Sega back in the early 90s, fresh off of Ridge Racer, they got to work on Sega Rally, Sega Touring Championship, and by the end of the decade they were making Star Wars and Cosmic Smash. They were, for lack of a better term, assimilated into Sega's culture. I've always had the vibe that Creative Assembly and Sports Interactive were just sort of...there. A part of Sega, but not. I am glad that they're working on that Aliens and Warhammer game, that they're represented in All Stars, and that they helped port some Sonic games. I would like them to keep it up. I wouldn't mind if they took a stab at some classic Sega properties, as well. Maybe they could work on an SRPG. I wish Sports Interactive would do something like that as well.

It's like if Sega still had 2K (and I really, really, really wish they did). It would be upsetting if all Sega was churning out worth consistently buying were sports games. Right now it feels like the only good games Sega has been churning out consistently are good RTS games, with the periodic update/tweak to a now seven (!) year old fighting game and something Sonic.

On the topic of Virtua Fighter, have they forgotten that its now twenty years old? Where the hell is the anniversary blowout? I was really ready for VF 6 after all the teasing we got last year, between X Zone, Dead or Alive, Final Showdown and so on.

Maybe I'm just in a bitchy mood.

[Team Andromeda]

Now I see you keep going on about two E3's yet failed to name ones after that.

Do you take the time to read what people post in their entirety ?

That year was a great show for SEGA with the likes of MonkeyBall 2, Orta,  , SEGA GT , ToeJame and Earl ,Shinobi ,Beach Spikers and GunGrave all shown off

2003 wasn't too bad with the likes of O.TO.GI, Billy H, VF 4 Evo, Dororo, SEGA GT Online , PS Online III
and at least in 2005 you had the SEGA cinema showing off VF 5 , AB Climax, Chromhounds, HOTD IV, Sonic 06 . This year other than Sonic on a dead system it was a complete non event and this is year that marks the start of the new generation too

That is not just 2 E3's .

There was a huge gulf of third party support when the Wii first appeared until the system started to become the market leader and most of them jumped on board

No most were on board on day one I'll think you'll find and unlike the Wii - Mum grand and granddad aren't buying the Wii U; Its uttrely laughable to see Nintendo go from making a control so simple even non gamers could understand and use it, to making a controler that is huge and has more buttons that a PS3 pad .

You keep bringing up older cheaper systems as an indication of the WiiU's failure

You do - I don't . I'm just saying that even if the consumer doesn't buy the XBox 1 or PS4 in massive numbers they'll be buying a 360 or PS3 instead (read not the Wii) so MS and SONY will still do well still enjoy massive 3rd party support and their consoles will be the number one tickets for parents this Christmas (other than the 3DS) and yet SEGA is a non event on the 360, PS3 or PS4 or XBox 1 this year .

Nice one SEGA Japan .

I think something like 7th Dragon, while I'm sure it's a solid game, doesn't exactly stand up well to her past. The woman behind treasures like Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia being relegated to brain trainers and portable gaming is a bit insulting, at least to me. She's one of their top talents; she should be getting a big budget to make RPGs. It isn't that I have a problem with 7th Dragon, per se. I have a problem with the First Lady of RPGs making dungeon crawlers while Sega gives wads of money to Tri Ace or to buy some half assed studio in California for its half assed tech. 7th Dragon is fine if she's working on other games, too. I'm annoyed that isn't the case.

I think Shogun and Rome are great games. I think that they're also beneficial to the company in that they provide good press and a solid reputation. I think they have artistic merit, and I'm glad Sega produces them. I would go so far as to say that Creative Assembly, Sports Interactive and Relic outshine the Japanese teams at the moment.

 I think 7th Dragon is fine for what it is. But it would be, to me, comparable to Nagoshi working on that bank game and doing little else for five years. I wish she could make a solid, big budget game. I wish Sega would let their remaining talent actually do something instead of playing it safe. If the Sega if today had existed in the early 90s, things like Virtua Fighter and Sonic and Virtua Racing would never have happened. Too expensive and too risky.

Spot on . I think we just have to accept that SEGA Japan that we did love is all but dead under Sammy . Its quite sad really to see what SEGA Japan has become even though there's still plenty of talent in the studio

[ROJM]

That is not just 2 E3's .

no you've brought up mostly two E3s. E3 2003 was crap and a lot of shite games appeared. it still doesn't lay any weight to why you are running around like a madman screaming about Sega's performance in E3 when they haven't performed or bothered with it for nearly a decade. It just smells of you trying to be seen as being the guy who says the tright things but ignoring all the facts.

No most were on board on day one I'll think you'll find and unlike the Wii - Mum grand and granddad aren't buying the Wii U; Its uttrely laughable to see Nintendo go from making a control so simple even non gamers could understand and use it, to making a controler that is huge and has more buttons that a PS3 pad .

No they weren't, the Wii didn't take off properly until several months after the initial launch. Up to then most gamers and some third parties were laughing and criticising nintendo over its backward graphics and the such.

You do - I don't .

Why don't you read your own posts properly? You've brought up the argument of the older systems outselling the WiiU numourous times.

Exampe 1: you said..

It can't sell now , its getting creamed by the 360 and PS3 

Example 2 you continued to say..
 

The Wii U isn't sell - that's why its being dropped by 3rd parties and the bad part for Nintendo is the fact that's its not being out sold by the Wii, but by the 360 and PS3 .

Example 3

Nothing going to change for the Wii U . Its selling like crap now, it won't be able to handle the next gen graphics (so it loses out even more when all the major development moves to the next gen) and worst of all is people aren't buying the Wii , they're buying 360's or PS3's /.So on all fronts Nintendo is losing out big time .

4

unlike MS and SONY who's console are still selling well and their games make up the charts , The Wii is nowhere . On all fronts (other than the Handheld) Nintendo is in trouble and is losing marketshare and 3rd party and retail support .

5

they'll be buying a 360 or PS3 instead (read not the Wii) so MS and SONY will still do well

All i did is respond to that stupid mentality. You brought it up, i didn't.

Spot on . I think we just have to accept that SEGA Japan that we did love is all but dead under Sammy . Its quite sad really to see what SEGA Japan has become even though there's still plenty of talent in the studio

Yet under them we had YAKUZA VALYRIA CHRONICLES and even BINARY DOMAIN as well as BORDERBREAK. Yes sega is really dead under sammy. Mismanaged but not dead. but then so was Sega under CSK...