SEGAbits Shenmue III Hype Train! Update: Funded but lets go further!

[George]

How many sequels to master system games did the Genesis have? How many sequels to Genesis games did the Saturn have? Not very much at all. Not enough to pretend SEGA always continued their franchise and something happen in 2008 that they just 'stopped'

[Nathan]

This is back in 1999 its Hard . I still have my Total control mags and all that stored away up the garage . One day I'll pull them out and scan it. I may try and scan the Offical DC mag interview where Kat's Saito also confirmed the $70 Million price tag for Shenmue production 

I'd be interested in seeing that. YS originally said it cost $70 million, and then clarified a few years ago at TGS that it was actually $45 million.

[Team Andromeda]

I'd be interested in seeing that. YS originally said it cost $70 million, and then clarified a few years ago at TGS that it was actually $45 million.

It wasn't just Yu who said it cost $70 Million dollars but also staff inside SEGA. Yu was just desprate to get the sequel made and I bet the $45 million was what it cost AM#2 to developed the 2 Shenmue games for the DC and it excludes the PR push with cost SEGA millions alone. 

How many sequels to master system games did the Genesis have

No many seeing as the MS was a bit of a flop in Japan and the USA. Mega Drive and Saturn days were a bit different and to a point the DC days too..


For the Mega Drive we had sequesl to SOR, VectorMan, Shinning series, Sonic, PS, Toe Jam & Earl, Joe Montana, Mickey Mouse series, Shinobi series, Wonderboy series, Golden Axe series, Super Monaco, Ecco Series and so on . On the Saturn were had sequels to the Shinning series, Story Of Thor, World Wide Soccer, NHL, World Series Basball, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon, VF, VC, Dragon Force, Bug, Decatlete and so on . On the saturn well again we had sequels to Sonic, Sakura Wars, Space Channel 5, Lets Make a Series, Get Bass Series, Shenmue , Virtual Fighter, Fighting Vipers, Die Hard Arcade, House of the Dead, Virtual On, Virtual Tennis , NBA 2k, NFL 2k, Crazy Taxi , Sega Rally [size=78%]  [/size]

[Centrale]

It wasn't just Yu who said it cost $70 Million dollars but also staff inside SEGA. Yu was just desprate to get the sequel made and I bet the $45 million was what it cost AM#2 to developed the 2 Shenmue games for the DC and it excludes the PR push with cost SEGA millions alone. 

Sorry TA, I know you're really convinced of that $70 million figure but there's no way that Sega spent $25 million on marketing (to make up the difference from Yu Suzuki's $45 million figure). Not in 2000-2001 and not today is that much cash spent on marketing. AAA games today might have a marketing budget of $10 million.

Personally I take Suzuki's word of a $45 million budget, spoken in retrospect with an eye toward convincing present day publishers to invest, over a magazine and various Sega "staffers" during a PR push who were liable to exaggerate figures to build up hype.

[MadeManG74]

I would main Shadowman & Wolf. Shit would be awesome.

[Team Andromeda]

I know you're really convinced of that $70 million figure but there's no way that Sega spent $25 million on marketing

That is what most of the big corps would spend on pushing a game and don't forget that Shenmue had lasvish PR push in Japan. 

AAA games today might have a marketing budget of $10 million

 Capcom spend $20 million  on pushing Lost Planet alone  , SEGA America spend $24 million on pushing Sonic III alone

Personally I take Suzuki's word of a $45 million budget, spoken in retrospect with an eye toward convincing present day publishers t

You want it personally from Yu ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXVco0Bkyk

[Centrale]

You want it personally from Yu ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmXVco0Bkyk

Like I said, I do take it directly from Yu Suzuki's most recent statements on the matter. $45 million. Ultimately, TA, what you have to understand is that no one takes you as seriously as you take yourself. So we'll agree to disagree, and I'm sure eventually have this exact same conversation weeks or months later.

[Team Andromeda]

Ultimately, TA, what you have to understand is that no one takes you as seriously as you take yourself

Its there clear as day and there is no way Yu Suzuki would lie about the budget in 1999, why would he need to ?  . The $45 million figure is no doubt Yu's desperate attempt at trying to get people to fund or go anywhere near a  Shenmue III and he's no doubt just stating the actual development costs , not the fortune SEGA also spent on Shenmue PR push and yes even SEGA would spend more than $20 Million on pushing a game just like SEGA America  did with Sonic III Ect..


Also here's Kat's Satio say on Shenmue

[Centrale]

I know, TA, I've seen those articles and don't doubt that they exist, but ultimately I do doubt their veracity. As for the matter of a Sonic III marketing budget of $20 million, well.. Halo 3 famously had a marketing budget of $10 million in 2007 dollars. So I would file that Sonic III figure under the category of absurd exaggeration as well.

But more than that, I think the underlying point is that you're not changing my mind and I'm not changing yours. And no one "wins" the argument by getting in the last word. It only drags the forum down, worst of all when you and ROJM go at it. It's like a cancerous growth of quotes that no one is actually reading all the way through. You seem to have some amount of self esteem tied up in the idea of being regarded as a "Sega expert" or something but in the end this is all just speculation using the sources of information we have at our disposal as consumers. And Sega being a large company/group of companies, and the passage of time, mean that even people who worked there will likely have different perspectives and opinions. So, it is what it is... ultimately people are just going to choose what they believe based on the information available. It's not like we're dealing with scientific method or mathematical equations here.

[Team Andromeda]

Halo 3 famously had a marketing budget of $10 million in 2007 dollars

That is what it cost MS alone for the Halo III videos in the build up for Halo III, , The PR push was far more than that  and I still find it amazing that Halo III cost more than 60 million to make  . Sony spent some 30 million on pushing Heavy rain and COD II MW have a massive $200 budget for its PR  if the hype is true .

But more than that, I think the underlying point is that you're not changing my mind and I'm not changing yours.

Its not my mind ... Its what SEGA's Kat's and Yu Suzuki said back inthe day . I see no reason why they would lie and even if they were , SEGA PR dept would be straight in there putting them straight,  that was the case during any interview back with SEGA Top teams back inthe day

You seem to have some amount of self esteem tied up in the idea of being regarded as a "Sega expert"

No not really . Just in the 80's,90's and till the death of the DC. I was a SEGA nut and collected a vast number of videos and mag's to go along with the consoels and games . No expert , but just in the same way a die hard Football fan and can name you every player and manager what played for his or her club and what it cost that club  for the past 50 or so years. I have no trouble remembering most of what SEGA got up into the 90's and through the DC days 

[MadeManG74]

COD II MW have a massive $200 budget for its PR  if the hype is true .

Two hundred dollars isn't really that much compared to industry average.

[crackdude]

Two hundred dollars isn't really that much compared to industry average.

Eh, worth a chuckle

[George]

It wasn't just Yu who said it cost $70 Million dollars but also staff inside SEGA. Yu was just desprate to get the sequel made and I bet the $45 million was what it cost AM#2 to developed the 2 Shenmue games for the DC and it excludes the PR push with cost SEGA millions alone. 



No many seeing as the MS was a bit of a flop in Japan and the USA. Mega Drive and Saturn days were a bit different and to a point the DC days too..


For the Mega Drive we had sequesl to SOR, VectorMan, Shinning series, Sonic, PS, Toe Jam & Earl, Joe Montana, Mickey Mouse series, Shinobi series, Wonderboy series, Golden Axe series, Super Monaco, Ecco Series and so on . On the Saturn were had sequels to the Shinning series, Story Of Thor, World Wide Soccer, NHL, World Series Basball, Sakura Wars, Panzer Dragoon, VF, VC, Dragon Force, Bug, Decatlete and so on . On the saturn well again we had sequels to Sonic, Sakura Wars, Space Channel 5, Lets Make a Series, Get Bass Series, Shenmue , Virtual Fighter, Fighting Vipers, Die Hard Arcade, House of the Dead, Virtual On, Virtual Tennis , NBA 2k, NFL 2k, Crazy Taxi , Sega Rally [size=78%]  [/size]

I think you misunderstood everything I said, every generation of consoles SEGA drops and makes new IPs. That was my point, not that they made sequels within the generation. Is it that hard to understand?

Streets of Rage happen like 4 generations ago, why bring it back? I personally don't want 'Streets of Rage: Street Wise', Crapcom tried it with Final Fight and its just shilling money for nostalgia. Regardless of what SEGA does with a new 'SOR' the old fans will hate and the new generation might not care since they have not nostalgia for it.

SEGA understood that  a franchise only works in a context of time. What Streets of Rage accomplished was done because of the time period where this games where in higher demand. I personally would rather have SEGA make new IPs, considering how technology evolves, instead of being tied to past constraints.

[Randroid]

Streets of Rage happen like 4 generations ago, why bring it back?

I agree with most of what you're saying up until this point. I think SOR is the one Genesis era game they should try to bring back. 90's nostalgia and aesthetics are in right now. Also, I think most would agree that the music of the original series is what elevated it past the standard beat'em up and that is the compelling reason to bring it back.

If Yuzo is doing the music, it will be fine.

Final Fight Streetwise abandoned what the series was actually about and came out way too early for the IP to be appreciated.  Double Dragon Neon is a better example of a beatem up game that knew what it was working with and when to execute.

But generally I agree that Sega's approach to keep IPs within in their generation is more exciting. There's definitely more shock factor with a new IP than there are with sequels. Shame people didn't appreciate Sega's last attempts at this though.

[George]

This is the thing, Double Dragon Neon didn't sell that well. Was heavily discounted to a buck (on both PSN and PC) and still has mediocre sales (90k on PC, for being basically given away).

While Neon might appeal to retro hardcore gamers (which is a very small amount of users), SEGA would have to update mechanics to even get a new audience to care.

"Let’s address a sad truth nobody wants to hear: The brawler genre is not very good anymore. The beat-‘em-up was built on the back of arcade game design; difficulty didn’t come by design, but by consequence of clunky mechanics meant to scam kids out of more quarters. Double Dragon, much as we all love to remember it, exploited our love of games so we’d keep paying for it. Double Dragon: Neon functions in a similar way. It’s a brawler that’s too focused on amusing you with 80s flair, and it comes at the expense of worthwhile gameplay. Double Dragon: Neon doesn’t bother to keep up with contemporaries such as Castle Crashers, Shank, and Scott Pilgrim – and you should let it fall behind."
http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/09/11/double-dragon-neon-review