Are the "company's fans" near extinction?

[Mariano]

Hello.
In this topic i would like to talk about something that in my opinion is almost very clear right now. The companies fans are near extinction. It is not a secret that companies like Capcom, Nintendo, SEGA, had a lots of fans, but my doubt is... are we fans of the companies or the franchises that the companies have?.
I had meet a lot of people that claim to be fans of "X franchise" and not actually "X company", and the more years pass i heard more this. First of all i will be honest, i had never heard someome claim to be fan of EA or Ubisoft for example, so the first thing i noted is that the idea of being a fan of a company is more accurate to the japaneses companies (Publishers like Capcom of Konami) or in some cases to a developer and not actually a publisher (like Platimun games for ex).
But in the last decade this japaneses companies had won a litlle bad reputation, even Nintendo with the wii and wiiU so in consecuence the name of the brand had get a little dirtied, to the point that i think there are no more companies (Big ones at least) that have no "Haters".


I think you get the idea of what i am saying, i am a SEGA fan but i feel that year by year we are less, and this is not only with SEGA but with all the companies in the industry, i belive that we are more fans of their products than of the brand itself and i am sure that we can agree that in the past it was not exactly like this, my opinion is that we used to had a more close felling to the companies that today.
Anyway what do you guys think? Are our affect to the publishers had being touched a litlle?, or is just something normal that had always happened during the years?. Please let me know.

[RegalSin]

When the same people who played the game as a kid or teen is now old as the persons making the game and is still bitching yes. We should all just stop SEGA-buffing this stuff already ( all of it ). We are old enough to own our game company and run if we wanted to.

The suckie part is that we live in the west were age matters and we are still at war with Oceana or was it Eurasia. It drives me crazy.

Nobody does not care. They just see us as salt being scraped up from the desert. The main ocean is with the kiddies we once were.

A whole bunch of fans died during the Afganistan and Iraq conflict. That is how sicking it is. SEGA knew it was going to happen so rather spear us the joke; they rather just make one last hurrar for real gaming.

[ROJM]

Hello.
In this topic i would like to talk about something that in my opinion is almost very clear right now. The companies fans are near extinction. It is not a secret that companies like Capcom, Nintendo, SEGA, had a lots of fans, but my doubt is... are we fans of the companies or the franchises that the companies have?.
I had meet a lot of people that claim to be fans of "X franchise" and not actually "X company", and the more years pass i heard more this. First of all i will be honest, i had never heard someome claim to be fan of EA or Ubisoft for example, so the first thing i noted is that the idea of being a fan of a company is more accurate to the japaneses companies (Publishers like Capcom of Konami) or in some cases to a developer and not actually a publisher (like Platimun games for ex).
But in the last decade this japaneses companies had won a litlle bad reputation, even Nintendo with the wii and wiiU so in consecuence the name of the brand had get a little dirtied, to the point that i think there are no more companies (Big ones at least) that have no "Haters".


I think you get the idea of what i am saying, i am a SEGA fan but i feel that year by year we are less, and this is not only with SEGA but with all the companies in the industry, i belive that we are more fans of their products than of the brand itself and i am sure that we can agree that in the past it was not exactly like this, my opinion is that we used to had a more close felling to the companies that today.
Anyway what do you guys think? Are our affect to the publishers had being touched a litlle?, or is just something normal that had always happened during the years?. Please let me know.

Been saying this for years now about Sega.  Sega fan base now are just a few number of sega fans who want to play any sega title, they would try a game sega publishes if it intrests them but still clamour for a Sega DNA title. Problem is they either aren't releasing them outside of japan or they make few of them. So the type of universal sega fan is stagnant now and remains so because they aren't making a reason why you should be a fan of the company, what made them special to entice people to become new fans of the company as a whole.
The majority of their userbase nowadays are fans of a particular franchise that Sega owns either inhouse or by acquisition. And there's been no real attempt to bring all those fanbases into the Sega family.

The difference when they had their systems was that they could easily unify gamers into their brand and make them fel they were a part of something. Even if they weren't a fan before they ended up becoming a fan. That's all gone through Sega's neglect. They didn't really try to hold them together once they became a third party and this is where the separation and dis fragment started.

I wouldn't say its true about Capcom or Konami, Capcom's troubles are that they basically not giving their hardcore audience what they want and they are quite sizable. You starting to see down the years people not religiously buying capcom titles anymore and its starting to hurt their bottom line.

[Mariano]

Been saying this for years now about Sega.  Sega fan base now are just a few number of sega fans who want to play any sega title, they would try a game sega publishes if it intrests them but still clamour for a Sega DNA title. Problem is they either aren't releasing them outside of japan or they make few of them. So the type of universal sega fan is stagnant now and remains so because they aren't making a reason why you should be a fan of the company, what made them special to entice people to become new fans of the company as a whole.
The majority of their userbase nowadays are fans of a particular franchise that Sega owns either inhouse or by acquisition. And there's been no real attempt to bring all those fanbases into the Sega family.

The difference when they had their systems was that they could easily unify gamers into their brand and make them fel they were a part of something. Even if they weren't a fan before they ended up becoming a fan. That's all gone through Sega's neglect. They didn't really try to hold them together once they became a third party and this is where the separation and dis fragment started.

I wouldn't say its true about Capcom or Konami, Capcom's troubles are that they basically not giving their hardcore audience what they want and they are quite sizable. You starting to see down the years people not religiously buying capcom titles anymore and its starting to hurt their bottom line.

I agree, but i will add that this "problem" had presence in the west, because in japan the image that SEGA have is much better that here, just like almost all the japanese companies these days. About the time they start being third party they were with the rope in the neck to try to unifique their fanbase, i think is was only when they merged with Sammy that they were in a stable financial situacion, and it was after that that SEGA develop the yakuza franchise, a franchise that after Sonic, "uniti" the SEGA fanbase in the west as much as i can see, so if the numbers of the yakuza title are not that good here then we can see how much "True" SEGA fans are still there...
Capcom situacion is different yes, the thing is that i dont know how well they are doing i japan (Besides monsters hunter) but in the west the image is getting worse over the years to the point that i know more customers that hate more capcom than SEGA to give an example.
I have the fear than in the future the east and west will be much seperate than it is right now, they are very differents cultures after all, not to mention than is getting very hard than a japanese game beats the "titans" of the west (A.creed,Call of duty, FIFA, Etc) and viceversa. 

[ROJM]

I agree, but i will add that this "problem" had presence in the west, because in japan the image that SEGA have is much better that here, just like almost all the japanese companies these days. About the time they start being third party they were with the rope in the neck to try to unifique their fanbase, i think is was only when they merged with Sammy that they were in a stable financial situacion, and it was after that that SEGA develop the yakuza franchise, a franchise that after Sonic, "uniti" the SEGA fanbase in the west as much as i can see, so if the numbers of the yakuza title are not that good here then we can see how much "True" SEGA fans are still there...
Capcom situacion is different yes, the thing is that i dont know how well they are doing i japan (Besides monsters hunter) but in the west the image is getting worse over the years to the point that i know more customers that hate more capcom than SEGA to give an example.
I have the fear than in the future the east and west will be much seperate than it is right now, they are very differents cultures after all, not to mention than is getting very hard than a japanese game beats the "titans" of the west (A.creed,Call of duty, FIFA, Etc) and viceversa. 

But in japan its the same thing. Traditionally a Sega fan in japan has always been an arcade gamer. But in the last decade Sega has just been making a certain type of game that has even put off their fanbase down there. Its been concentrating on kid games or music games or cheap games that appeal to those freaks who call themselves Otaku cos players. And freaks are the right word. The difference is that while there is a following on various Sega games by different fans in japan, they are unified by the sega brand because of their website which includes all the stuff those people are intrested in. Over here it doesn't. 
Before Sammy Sega actually did try to appeal to everyone. The problem was that the so called audience ignored their Sega DNA titles for certain systems IE the XBOX. If people brought ORTA, JSRF and GUN VALYKRIE in sufficent numbers than Sega would still be making those type of games in the west. But those titles including SHENMUE 2 flopped in the states and UK. Then stupid fans complain and bitch and moan about why they don't do this when they didn't BUY the game at full price to begin with. 
In Japan SOJ was making money with their titles just not on Xbox. And they just concentrated in those games because they were making money and they were in the red. They managed to get out of the red before Sammy took them over and that was down to japanese sales alone. Then other attempts to try and reconnect with a western audience has either failed either by badluck, cancellation or low sales. Sammy's CEO Satomi mentality is they will try but they won't flog a dead horse. And that's why we have the situation that we have especially in america. People act that Sammy is keeping Sega from SHENMUE. SHENMUE had two or three chances by Sammy. SHENMUE ONLINE which they pored a lot of money into, ran into bad luck. They gave Suzuki the game to run SHENMUE on mobile which flopped because it didn't get enough users. If these two or SHENMUE CITY had made money i think SS would have let SHENMUE on console happen but they believe there isn't any real interest out there. And no petitions don't work because what people say they do one day..they don't do in another..we just have to see YAKUZA sales in the west just to see that. 
Gaming today in the west as far as gaming fans go has the fat man in the chair mentality. Complaing about things they have no clue about, Thinking certain games were greater than they actually were and complain about them when the company makes the EXACT same type of game. Saying and wanting a game from them but when the game is released doesn't bother to get out of his chair to buy it or worse gets the pirates version off the internat. Then claims he got ripped off by Sega on a game he didn't pay for if one little thing is wrong with the game. I call it the Harry Knowles fan mentality syndrome that has ruined scifi/movie fandom for me. IE i just can't be bothered to socilise with those type of people because its far removed from anything i know and its like they act they don't enjoy any movie. That is what happened in that field of fans and what is happening with gamers now. Were past stage 4 now when we have deranged people coming in talking about a game but starts to throw racist sexist homophobic and Obama and the evils of the jews and the american government in the conversation ALL the time when it has nothing to do with video games.  And the real fans can't be bothered coming to places like this. Notice that if you go to Sega.com forums than go to Sega bits or similar sega websites, the conversations are usually focused on games and more intelligent. That is where the real base of the sega fandom has gone to. You will hardly find those guys in the sega forums nowadays.
 
So yes its a big problem that sega should sort out. Problem is they don't need to because they found a way of making money by buying or making franchises with a following. Its worst now with Atlus as you have a big following there and if its going to be like TOTAL WAR and FB those communities will have litle to do with each other.

[Mariano]

Nice talk, have some kudos.
I didnt understand exactly how SEGA japan maintein their fanbase unified in Japan.
How do you think SEGA can accomplish that in the west?

[RegalSin]

They maintain their fanbase in the east because they are Japanese. They have un-official works of Sonic floating around as well as many people being employeed for various works. To make things clear to the east we are just salt in the desert. They are sweeping the desert for their nation.

[ROJM]

Nice talk, have some kudos.
I didnt understand exactly how SEGA japan maintein their fanbase unified in Japan.
How do you think SEGA can accomplish that in the west?

They need to make their website like the japan on as being the center of the Sega universe. It being the portal to get to everything connected to sega. Arcades, SONIC, TOTAL WAR,Atlus etc etc etc. Instead of having the stupid forum set up that they have , do what they have here at segabits where the forums link directly to that particular game sites forums. Create a sega pass or something which makes you easy to navigate via the site and other things. Have an exchange between ALL sega fans in different regions and create some type of communication between them...make the fans believe in the company again by letting them be part of something, whatever the idea. There's lots of things really. But the attitude of the staff of Sega.com is a big turn off especially when new fans are brought into the fold by Sega acquisition. The way those guys treated the Relic fans was disgusting and as far as i can tell the Atlus fans have stayed away from sega which is a bad sign. I would basically sack most of the people in charge of that place.

But as much as you can change a site its down to the games..unless Sega can produce games that the sega fans want,produce titles that everyone else wants to play, producing the titles that they acquired and maintain the quality of big franchises like Sonic and rehaul their digital division, localization and port departments than everything would be better where you can build more of an audience opened to Sega as a brand rather than just a company they happen to publish their favorite game...

[MadeManG74]

I think fans of certain publishers/developers still exist, but I think it's more common in niche and smaller teams than the traditional ones. The guys that we grew up in with Sega, EA, Capcom etc have all gotten so large and diverse that you can't really be a fan of the overall business since they are bound to do a mix of things you like and don't like.

On the other hand, it's more common to find fans of teams like Paradox Games since they almost entirely make niche historical grand strategy games (Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, Europa Universalis etc). Ditto maybe a Publisher like Devolver who make Hotline Miami, Ollie Ollie and Luftrausers. They seem to have a small niche that they focus on and can keep that focus and therefore a consistent fanbase.

They also don't have to try to appeal to everyone and end up appealing to nobody in the process.

[ROJM]

Not really MM. Half of the people either dropped out of gaming altogether and were just the people left still doing it. Second there are people who still buys a majority of the games either the games they will get full price like a tent pole game or a game of a famous series and get the rest when they fall down in price. But there is no incentive to even do that.

[MadeManG74]

Not really MM. Half of the people either dropped out of gaming altogether and were just the people left still doing it. Second there are people who still buys a majority of the games either the games they will get full price like a tent pole game or a game of a famous series and get the rest when they fall down in price. But there is no incentive to even do that.

Are you talking about the fans? I agree that there is definitely a turnover of fans who would have left gaming altogether, or those who are much less into it than previously, but I'm talking even about younger generations and new fans, and trying to come up with why they don't have the same company loyalty and  enthusiasm for the big companies like there was for Sega, Nintendo, Capcom back in the day.

[jonboy101]

Are you talking about the fans? I agree that there is definitely a turnover of fans who would have left gaming altogether, or those who are much less into it than previously, but I'm talking even about younger generations and new fans, and trying to come up with why they don't have the same company loyalty and  enthusiasm for the big companies like there was for Sega, Nintendo, Capcom back in the day.

Nintendrones still exist in younger gamers, I think.

I would guess the problem goes hand in hand with the lack of exclusive games; something that sort of died out in the 128 bit era. A lot of brand loyalty was because a lot of third parties supported one company over another; Namco's feud with Nintendo, Square with PlayStation, Capcom and Sega (kind of), and so on.

[Mariano]

They need to make their website like the japan on as being the center of the Sega universe. It being the portal to get to everything connected to sega. Arcades, SONIC, TOTAL WAR,Atlus etc etc etc. Instead of having the stupid forum set up that they have , do what they have here at segabits where the forums link directly to that particular game sites forums. Create a sega pass or something which makes you easy to navigate via the site and other things. Have an exchange between ALL sega fans in different regions and create some type of communication between them...make the fans believe in the company again by letting them be part of something, whatever the idea. There's lots of things really. But the attitude of the staff of Sega.com is a big turn off especially when new fans are brought into the fold by Sega acquisition. The way those guys treated the Relic fans was disgusting and as far as i can tell the Atlus fans have stayed away from sega which is a bad sign. I would basically sack most of the people in charge of that place.

But as much as you can change a site its down to the games..unless Sega can produce games that the sega fans want,produce titles that everyone else wants to play, producing the titles that they acquired and maintain the quality of big franchises like Sonic and rehaul their digital division, localization and port departments than everything would be better where you can build more of an audience opened to Sega as a brand rather than just a company they happen to publish their favorite game...

I dont like the Website of sega west neither...but if you are talking about sub-forums i think they have those in the official forums.
About the way some idiots "fans" speak to the relic fans i didnt know anything about it, but i dont think is responsability of SEGA to do something about that, is not SEGA responsability to educate people, is those people parents...
About Atlus it was very clear to me since the start, fans from Atlus USA and fans from SEGA west have nothing in commun and i really doubt that those two offices are speking to each other like is happening in japan in my opinion.
I have a lot of ideas to how i think we can improve this in the future, but the two things i believe are crucial are the localization and the "union" between the TW fans, Atlus fans,Etc and the SEGA fans.
One is hard for the money cost of course and the other one depends mainly on the people , SEGA apart of "remake" their website or anothers little things can not do much. To accomplish an union are necessary the fans and SEGA efforts.

[MadeManG74]

Nintendrones still exist in younger gamers, I think.

I should have mentioned that Nintendrones exist in all ages.

[ROJM]

I dont like the Website of sega west neither...but if you are talking about sub-forums i think they have those in the official forums.
About the way some idiots "fans" speak to the relic fans i didnt know anything about it, but i dont think is responsability of SEGA to do something about that, is not SEGA responsability to educate people, is those people parents...
About Atlus it was very clear to me since the start, fans from Atlus USA and fans from SEGA west have nothing in commun and i really doubt that those two offices are speking to each other like is happening in japan in my opinion.
I have a lot of ideas to how i think we can improve this in the future, but the two things i believe are crucial are the localization and the "union" between the TW fans, Atlus fans,Etc and the SEGA fans.
One is hard for the money cost of course and the other one depends mainly on the people , SEGA apart of "remake" their website or anothers little things can not do much. To accomplish an union are necessary the fans and SEGA efforts.

Half of those fans were people that help monitor the site. The same similar thing happened when Sammy fans started to come to the sega forums and the mods kinda encouraged the hostility towards them. So yes they need to overhaul their site and fire half the staff.