Jim Sterling - Talks Sonic series/Sonic Boom. Hits nail on head!

[Radrappy]

It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint, SEGA needs a big Sonic game, mainline or otherwise, every year or their profits get a major hit.

Taking the time to put out a quality product makes sense as well; a fantastic game should garner more sales in the long run.  They've written themselves into a wall with this one entry a year business model, and now have to rely on it while the brand slowly but surely dilutes. 

[Aki-at]

Taking the time to put out a quality product makes sense as well; a fantastic game should garner more sales in the long run.  They've written themselves into a wall with this one entry a year business model, and now have to rely on it while the brand slowly but surely dilutes. 

We are talking about a company that has made numerous fantastic games but they've almost all failed and an industry dominated by the likes of Ubisoft and Electronic Arts haha. But I don't think they need to pool so much resource to make one Sonic game. We'll be looking at a team the size of 150 - 200 developers, that's way too much for a Sonic game and outside of downsizing, they need to put them to use somewhere.

As for brand diluting, it already happened a decade ago, what they need to be careful with is letting it get damaged with badly received variation. Marvel super heroes, Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles et all can survive having multiple versions or canons as long as the majority of it's spinoff titles are well received or if the main universe at least is modestly good.

[Sharky]

I think the current model is a good one, each team getting 3 years to create a Sonic game... So long as they build on what they have learned and shoot for a quality title. I think both Japanese Sonic Team, teams are on the right track so long as they stick to their guns...

Generations was awesome, so if they can stick with that and build on it the next game can be too... Colours was also awesome and Lost World was at least a tight, well crafted platformer with issues. If they take what they have learned and hone it again they could come out with a winner.

Sonic Boom though was not a winner and I don't think much can be taken from that mess and built upon... I dread to see what they cook up next but it just doesn't seem necessary. Would be better to simply have a  Sonic All-Stars spin off on the gap year... Either kart racing or fighting or whatever...

Then get Hardlight on the iSO spin offs, they seem capable enough and we're golden...

[TimmiT]

There's no need for a 150-200 development team for a Sonic game, sure, but Sonic Team should actually take the time to finish their work rather than rush parts of their games to get them out in time for holiday. Their games being unfinished is one of the biggest reasons for why the brand is as damaged as it is.

While Colours and Generations fixed it up somewhat, they weren't good enough to stop people from people of being doubtful if the next Sonic game will be good or not. After that the mixed reception for Lost World and the horrendous failure that is Rise of Lyric only brought the brand back down again. Sonic Team's next game needs to be great, or Sonic will continue to be seen as "that crappy 20+ year old mascot that's just a mangled corpse held up by strings".

SEGA can't afford to rush their next Sonic game out for holiday release, they should release it in 2016 if they have to. If it actually looks and plays great, they could even hype it up as the big 25th anniversary game and get extra sales by doing that. Either way, they need to put out a game that's great. Not one that's filled with filler put in there to make the game longer, not one that's so short that it's hard to recommend for full price, but a full game that's at least mostly fun to play. Sonic Team can make a game like that, they proved that with Generations. But they need enough time to make a game like Generations that doesn't take two hours to finish.

It seems like the Generations team has had three years up to now to make next year's Sonic game if they started after they finished Generations, meaning that they'd have worked on it for four years when the game comes out. That should hopefully be enough, but it seems likely that they'll have made a new engine to take advantage of PS4/Xbox One hardware and that the gameplay will once again be different. If that's the case, they need to take all the time they need to polish that up.

[Aki-at]

I don't think it has anything with them being rushed and them just having bad ideas. Most of the development teams in the industry (let alone SEGA.) stick to a 2 or 3 year development schedule. For that reason I don't think it has anything to do with Sonic Team not having enough time (SEGA after all pumps out the Yakuza games just as fast.) and more to do with incompetency at the top. Sonic: Lost World aside, Sonic Generations, Colours, Unleashed, the storybook games etc all felt like complete titles but the problem was execution and poor level design rather than the buggy mess that was Sonic the Hedgehog 06 and the circumstances surrounding that isn't something that would happen very often.

I agree that with Sonic: Lost World it does feel like they gave up towards the end, if that was because upper management felt the need to cut their losses or not we might never know. But large development teams and excessive time on a title isn't the solution to the problem, good management is.

[Radrappy]

But large development teams and excessive time on a title isn't the solution to the problem, good management is.

Agreed.  The issue is quality control from the top; and since iizuka is still in charge I don't have much hope moving forward.  That being said, it has always been abundantly clear that they rush these games out for the holiday.  4 years of "development" time usually means 3 years of building a test level and 1 year of serious nose to the grindstone development.  That really needs to stop. 


Also with the Yakuza games, they certainly don't reinvent the wheel with each new entry, but instead build on a solid foundation.  It's the lack of that foundation that is absolutely strangling Sonic. 

[TimmiT]

I don't think it has anything with them being rushed and them just having bad ideas. Most of the development teams in the industry (let alone SEGA.) stick to a 2 or 3 year development schedule. For that reason I don't think it has anything to do with Sonic Team not having enough time (SEGA after all pumps out the Yakuza games just as fast.) and more to do with incompetency at the top. Sonic: Lost World aside, Sonic Generations, Colours, Unleashed, the storybook games etc all felt like complete titles but the problem was execution and poor level design rather than the buggy mess that was Sonic the Hedgehog 06 and the circumstances surrounding that isn't something that would happen very often.

I agree that with Sonic: Lost World it does feel like they gave up towards the end, if that was because upper management felt the need to cut their losses or not we might never know. But large development teams and excessive time on a title isn't the solution to the problem, good management is.

Generations didn't have enough stuff in it to justify the price tag, half the levels in Colours are filler, Unleashed made the game longer with pointless medal collecting, Sonic and the Secret Rings was filled with filler missions and Black Knight had rushed stage designs. In the case of Colours, Generations and Lost World at least it was clear that Sonic Team wanted to put more stuff in but couldn't due to time constraints. With each game they tried to make the game longer with levels or missions cobbled together out of stuff from already existing levels, with the exception of Generations where most of those missions were optional.

The small development times with Yakuza work because with that they don't try to make an entirely different game with each game and usually build on top of pre-existing engines and such. Also in Sonic there are big levels with varied designs, which take more time to make.


EDIT: Actually, your point about Yakuza games not taking so long also goes back to Jim Sterling's point. A big part of why Sonic games need to have longer development times is because they always try something new. If they just built on to the modern Sonic gameplay of Generations, Colours and Unleashed they could make a great game.

[Radrappy]

With each game they tried to make the game longer with levels or missions cobbled together out of stuff from already existing levels, with the exception of Generations where most of those missions were optional.

To be fair, even Super Mario 3d World was teeming with reused assets and repurposed level geometry.  It's how they were able to make 90+(good christ) stages.

I'm not against reuse if the content is still fun and varied. 

[TimmiT]

To be fair, even Super Mario 3d World was teeming with reused assets and repurposed level geometry.  It's how they were able to make 90+(good christ) stages.

I'm not against reuse if the content is still fun and varied. 

Sure, Mario 3D World also handles re-used content a lot better than Sonic games. With the exception of Lost World, levels in Sonic games are usually meant to look like they're part of a bigger world. This makes it harder to just re-use the level assets and geometry, as it'd have to be used with the same backgrounds and such. Meanwhile in the Mario Galaxy games and 3D World, it's basically levels in huge empty spaces. Sonic games didn't do that at all until Lost World, where it feels like they could have easily re-used assets well but instead they tried to create as many levels as they could until they realized they had to finish the game, at which point they quickly by making stages that look the same as previous levels and aren't as well designed.

[max_cady]

Sterling always seems like a YT video away from a stroke, but he does make a couple of OK points. He should've also stressed out that SEGA kinda dropped the ball when they never fully explained that Sonic Boom was a seperate Sonic franchise. Basically, like Activision with their Team A and Team B for their seperate Call of Duty series.

The fact that it was a licensed game (TV show tie-in) and that Big Red Button might not have been the ideal developer for this title, were also important aspects that could be brought up only because they are so obvious that they should have been addressed.

I'm fine with Jim Sterling enjoying Sonic: Lost Worlds, but I still cannot understand that game in any way, shape or form, so to each, it's own. The thing is, had Sonic Generations 2 been announced we'd more than likely wouldn't be having this conversation right now. But that would have never happened since SG was indeed an Anniversary Thing and a sequel would only diminish it's value (maybe, I don't friggin' know) and Nintendo's deal would almost sideline whatever plans for something like this, since having the Wii U as your main console, a change in direction would have to ensue.

Still, for how many times we've had this talk about "Sonic should be X instead of Y", I am still convinced that the character is a blank slate.

[Chaosmaster8753]

Jim actually made a response to people pointing out that Boom was developed by a different studio than Sonic Team: https://twitter.com/JimSterling/status/536931767295684608

[max_cady]

Glad he did, but I wasn't trying to undermine his point. Still, I wonder how those people who are constantly spouting things like "Nintendo should develop Sonic games HERP DERP" would react to this information?

[crackdude]

Jim Sterling is a fucking stub. No credibility whatsoever, even when he (accidentally) says the right thing.

[ROJM]

It makes perfect sense from a business standpoint, SEGA needs a big Sonic game, mainline or otherwise, every year or their profits get a major hit. Sonic Boom I'd imagine was going to be that buffer, just like Sonic & Allstars Racing Transformed was in 2012. Besides it is the industry norm now, it's nothing strange having two major teams working in tandem. The Creative Assembly and Ryu Ga Gotoku Studios have two major teams too but what they have is better communication between each other. I'd imagine department heads are more experienced/better than Iizuka is at the job.

We'll see what the future holds though, it might just be outsourcing a major title to be developed in the West one year and then a major Sonic game from Sonic Team the following year.

I don't know if you can call SASASR:T a buffer title anymore considering how much the first title and the sequel made for Sega. SONIC BOOM and SLW didn't deliever as  abuffer or main sonic game..so its definatly back to the drawing board and create a new plan..whether the serie on console remains exclusivly tied or create a two main MP Sonic games and create a spin off/bufer game for WiiU..if that's even valid anymore..similar to what happened during last gen...

[TimmiT]

Jim Sterling is a fucking stub. No credibility whatsoever, even when he (accidentally) says the right thing.

He actually has improved a lot of the past couple of years. While he can be an ass, he's usually at least right and does a decent job calling out publishers like Ubisoft or Warner Bros. Games on their bullshit