Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[Aki-at]

It doesn't help that almost all of SEGA is superior to Sonic Team. And it is mostly their own fault they suck (IE. STRANGE MINECART)

[Sharky]

Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?

[Barry the Nomad]

Yeah, green eyes and Eggman. Unless the submenu font has been leaked.

THE PLONKERS USED BOLD! GRARGH!!!!

[Aki-at]

Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?

Search for STRANGE MINECART.

[Barry the Nomad]

Sorry, what are people whining about now?

I've been out of the whiney loop for a while... is it still the green eyes?

Search for STRANGE MINECART.

Also search for "one act out of twelve that is being played incorrectly in a leaked video and thankfully has no bottomless pits and would probably take only four minutes for a competent player to get through"

I recommend Bing for the above.

[MadeManG74]

Why are Barry and Sharky so defensive of this game? I really don't understand it, there are quite a few things we don't like about it and it's not the Green Eyes.

You make it sound like we are whining about the most minor things in the world, while ignoring the fact that we all think the game looks like it's not going ot be fun at at all and has just been mishandled the whole way.

Frankly, you guys are acting worse than the neogaffers, just on the opposite scale. Rather than acknowledging our problems you are personally insulting us by calling us whiners and pretending all our concerns are stupid and that we are complaining about Sonic's eye colour.

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
Sonic the Hedgehog is a multi-million dollar franchise despite the relatively poor quality of the series. It is easily the most important franchise in Sega's history and massively affects their image. When it comes time to make a direct sequel to the best selling and most loved games in the franchise, it shouldn't be a Downloadable game made by the lowest bidders. Aki-at made a great example by comparing it to KOF XIII a while ago. King of Fighters isn't as popular as Sonic and SNK isn't a tenth as wealthy or well staffed as Sega is, and yet they are pulling out all the stops to make KOF XIII look and play amazing because it's their flagship series.
This isn't saying the game will be BAD, but the graphics and the format do look like they were chosen to keep the costs low rather than provide a great experience and carry the legacy.

2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games
Since the beginning of development, Sega have been pushing that this game will be a return to the classic gameplay. Unfortunately it looks like it's anything but. Some levels look good and a lot of it looks fine, but the homing attack really does make a massive difference to gameplay. It totally removes precision jumping from attacking enemies or using enemies to bounce to new areas. In fact the director even said it was included to make the game faster and add speed. I'm worried, and expecting that this speed will be at the expense of platforming.
There are other problems like sonic losing his roll off a ramp (i'm thinking/hopping this is just a glitch, because I doub't even sonic team is that stupi-

On second thought...)

3) Strange MineCart
OADKggasdf;a sdfsa;gjfg it's only one level!

Yes, but hear me out; this level is indicative of why Sonic Team is so disliked amongst us, they just feel the need to throw in as many gimmicks as possible, regardless of if they are actually fun or not. Telekinesis and Hovercrafts in Sonic 06, Worst QTEs ever concieved and Medal Collectin' in Sonic Unleashed, and now it's analogue controls that look migraine inducing and not fun in the slightest for Strange Minecart (and although it's just one level, it matters. Have you seen how much negative press it's recieved?) and all the bonus stages. This isn't the classic Sonic we were expecting and promised.

4) Overall design
The game is recycling a lot of stuff from the old games, I guess in lieu of the fun gameplay from the old games they want to trick up by including old bosses and baddies. This isn't a major issue, but it just smacks of them pandering to our nostalgia without actually adding much new.
I'll also include here the bizarre art choices like the size ratio between Sonic and Robotnik and Sonic. The model looks a bit stupid too IMO, green eyes notwithstanding.


At the end of the day, the game just doesn't look like it's going to be much fun at all to me, and it certainly doesn't look anything like an old Sonic Game should play like.

I am getting really tired of having to be the bad guy on this forum because I'm not falling in love with every Sonic related game that is released. If you disagree with those points, please do say so, but don't just act the blind fanboy and say i'm complaining for no reason. I had reasons for disliking SSR but got ignored because apparantly it's okay for Sega to rip-off Nintendo games wholesale, but when Namco does it they are a bad company that's fallen from grace.

[Aki-at]

Also search for "one act out of twelve that is being played incorrectly in a leaked video and thankfully has no bottomless pits and would probably take only four minutes for a competent player to get through"

I recommend Bing for the above.

I recommend the below

[youtube:1dx6wplt]1TZERN3EEKg[/youtube:1dx6wplt]

[crackdude]

^^^^^^
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

but really I doubt that the dude that was playing that level had any idea what he was doing.
It also seemed a pretty raw level. With some tweaking it could be actually fun. These are betas running. That's why we weren't supposed to see these gameplays.

[Barry the Nomad]

Did you ever get around to playing SASAR, MadeMan? Not "having a go", just curious.

I'm defensive over the game as I'm willing to give it a chance. I do not consider screens and a few leaked videos enough to go on to hate the game. Until I've played it, I stand firmly in the "looks fun, I have no complaints until I've played it" camp. From what I've seen here, at Sonic Stadium and NeoGAF is a bunch of nitpicking to the point that even the smallest things have been built up to "OMFG A MINE CART ACT WILL RUIN THE GAME!!!". It isn't a werehog, it isn't a broken engine and Silver, it isn't a team dynamic, it isn't guns and vehicles. It's a goofy on rails stage no different from Ice Cap's intro or the first zone of the Master System's Sonic 2 (which was also a mine cart, but with annoying death pits).

Anywho, to go point by point on your Sonic 4 qualms:

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
And it IS a pretty big deal as evidenced by the media's attention as well as the internet explosion of discussion. Being "download only" does not equal "not a big deal". While Sonic 4 is a direct sequel to a major Sega franchise, it is also a 2D platformer in a world of Heavy Rain's, Call of Duty's and Arkham Asylum's. The retail world of games have changed greatly since the Dreamcast days. You really don't see that many smaller games given a retail release (unless we're talking the Wii).

We could have gotten the game two ways: Wait a bit longer until all three episodes are complete and get a retail release, or get Episode 1 in a few months and have the rest of the game by early 2011. Sega is playing it safe, and rightfully so. Going episodic does a few things: it allows for user input to affect upcoming episodes (as revealed by Retro), it also saves on production costs for pressing discs and printing packaging and will amount to a less expensive game. Somebody scorned by Unleashed may not buy a $50 retail release of Sonic 4, but a $5-10 download purchase of episode 1 (with a demo to DL as well) would be much easier to swallow.

2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games.
Sonic 1 was different from 2, 2 was different from 3 and 3 is different from 4. Is 4 the most different from the previous three? Well of course it is, it is coming 16 years after the last game. We have a graphical upgrade, physics translated for 2.5D play and a new attack. Despite those changes, it is still the same game. The same rules apply, the same objects have the same effects on the player and the same Sonic trademarks are there. Did you want a Mega Man 9-like Sonic 4? I sure didn't. I've played enough fan games over the past 15 years emulating the idea of a Sonic 4. Some were fun, some were shit.

3) Strange MineCart
See my first paragraph.

4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

[Orta]

Sonic 4 is going to suck. The music is pretty fucking bad already, I can't see how you still have your hopes up. Iizuka is involved for crying out loud.

[Aki-at]

4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

You are making it out people like me and Sanus do not have any issues with New Super Mario Brothers, but WE do, infact, I don't like it much at all.

The only difference is people are willing to forgive Mario because lol it's Nintendo, but not Sonic. However those people do not visit this site.

[Barry the Nomad]

All this would make for a great episode of the SEGAbits Swingin' Report Show.

And by great I mean an episode filled with yelling and swearing.

[Sharky]

I'm sorry that I'm not that bothered by half of the reasons people want to hate this game. The mine kart level did looks a bit shit but everything else I saw looked just almost on par with classic sonic.

And yes I said Almost on par but then again most of you have gone out and baught games like Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Adventure 1/2 which couldnt be further from classic Sonic games. (and bar Sonic Adventure 1 none of them were that good.)

[MadeManG74]

Did you ever get around to playing SASAR, MadeMan? Not "having a go", just curious.

I got the demo, but was really annoyed to find that there was some glitch in it that meant the drift button was stuck at all times. I thought it was my controller but it worked for every other game. It really made the demo unplayable, which was a shame since i really wanted to see what it was like.

I'm defensive over the game as I'm willing to give it a chance. I do not consider screens and a few leaked videos enough to go on to hate the game. Until I've played it, I stand firmly in the "looks fun, I have no complaints until I've played it" camp. From what I've seen here, at Sonic Stadium and NeoGAF is a bunch of nitpicking to the point that even the smallest things have been built up to "OMFG A MINE CART ACT WILL RUIN THE GAME!!!". It isn't a werehog, it isn't a broken engine and Silver, it isn't a team dynamic, it isn't guns and vehicles. It's a goofy on rails stage no different from Ice Cap's intro or the first zone of the Master System's Sonic 2 (which was also a mine cart, but with annoying death pits).

I'm willing to give it a shot too, but when I see something that I don't like I'll make a note of it. At first it wasn't a big deal, but the little things have been building up for me to the point where it looks like I wont enjoy the game.

It's not just one problem thats killing it for me, it's the combination of several.

Anywho, to go point by point on your Sonic 4 qualms:

1) Sonic 4 should be a bigger deal:
And it IS a pretty big deal as evidenced by the media's attention as well as the internet explosion of discussion. Being "download only" does not equal "not a big deal". While Sonic 4 is a direct sequel to a major Sega franchise, it is also a 2D platformer in a world of Heavy Rain's, Call of Duty's and Arkham Asylum's. The retail world of games have changed greatly since the Dreamcast days. You really don't see that many smaller games given a retail release (unless we're talking the Wii).

We could have gotten the game two ways: Wait a bit longer until all three episodes are complete and get a retail release, or get Episode 1 in a few months and have the rest of the game by early 2011. Sega is playing it safe, and rightfully so. Going episodic does a few things: it allows for user input to affect upcoming episodes (as revealed by Retro), it also saves on production costs for pressing discs and printing packaging and will amount to a less expensive game. Somebody scorned by Unleashed may not buy a $50 retail release of Sonic 4, but a $5-10 download purchase of episode 1 (with a demo to DL as well) would be much easier to swallow.

The fact is, this is Sonic we are talking about, it would sell big even in a 2D format at retail. When you consider that Splosion Man cost 800 points and had about 100 levels in it (not small ones either), it really makes Sonic 4 look pretty lacklustre in my eyes.

I don't have anything against Download games usually, but for something called 'Sonic 4' a game that is meant to be twenty years in the making I have to say it feels like a bit of a copout.

I don't think that sales is too big a deal considering how well NSMB sold on Wii Alone, Sonic 4 on all 3 platforms would almost certainly have been a solid performer. At the end of the day I think it's just Sega wanting to make this as quickly and cheaply as possible.

Maybe thats just me, but thats the impression I've been getting.

2) It is fundamentally different to the classic games.
Sonic 1 was different from 2, 2 was different from 3 and 3 is different from 4. Is 4 the most different from the previous three? Well of course it is, it is coming 16 years after the last game. We have a graphical upgrade, physics translated for 2.5D play and a new attack. Despite those changes, it is still the same game. The same rules apply, the same objects have the same effects on the player and the same Sonic trademarks are there. Did you want a Mega Man 9-like Sonic 4? I sure didn't. I've played enough fan games over the past 15 years emulating the idea of a Sonic 4. Some were fun, some were shit.

I agree that there were differences between the older games, but the key word was 'fundamental'. I get the feeling that the homing attack can and will change the game at a base level, unlike the changes in the other games. Obviously I haven't played the game yet, but I did need to point that out as it's a big point of concern for me.

3) Strange MineCart
See my first paragraph.

I think you missed the point though, that this is just an example of why Sonic Team has been screwing up so much with all the games, and why I fear for this one. They feel the need to shoe-horn in these horrible gimmicks instead of just letting the game stand on it's own. IT also goes against the basic principles of Sonic, which was to have the controls as simple as possible. Move and one BUtton, thats it, not motion controls that tilt the screen and make you move. And it's not just the minecart, it's the special stages too.

4) Overall design
Episode 1 has been called a throwback episode, with the promise of original content in the other two episodes. Until Sonic Team reveals if they have remained true to this promise, I'm really not bothered by repeated enemies and locations. Mario has been using the same two enemies for years and nobody gives a shit. Sonic brings back a stable of unique and memorable enemies and everybody goes into a rage. I personally love the badniks and like them just as much as Sonic and his friends, if not more than the heroes. It's great to see them back. There are two sides to the nostalgia coin, and I prefer to look at the positive side.

I don't mind the baddies coming back so much as the bosses, since they apparantly play the same as well.  But okay, I'll concede this point for now.

And yes I said Almost on par but then again most of you have gone out and baught games like Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Heroes and Sonic Adventure 1/2 which couldnt be further from classic Sonic games. (and bar Sonic Adventure 1 none of them were that good.)

Yes, bought and regretted buying them (with the exception of the Adventure games which i loved at the time. Unleashed was boderline). Which is why I'm much more cautious about buying this game now.

[Sharky]

But at the end of the day it's still the closest thing to a classic Sonic game in 15 years. Dispite it's flaws and faults.

Which means it's a step in the right direction no matter which way you swing it.