Sonic 4: episode 2 Official thread

[max_cady]

Just finished Episode II and collected all the Chaos Emeralds. Why is the 7th Special stage so annoyingly hard!?

Anyway, the final boss is one visual treat!

[Barry the Nomad]

Yeah, i've done all but the final boss. I think it's too much for me on a Friday night, so I'll beat it tomorrow.

Entered SEGA's multiple purchase initiative, since I have XBLA and iOS. Went by the name SEGAbits, figured its free advertising.

[stevetheman90]

The last Special Stage was annoying, that loop on the second part was the key to success.

[Kori-Maru]

Obtained all the trophies and achievements on the game and leveling up on the leaderboards like a boss. I see that the same hacker who hacked Episode I is back ruining people's fun on the leaderboards, but I wouldn't worry about that. Overall the game was challenging, but fun. I might go through a third or forth playthrough on my other two copies.

[Barry the Nomad]

I find a lot of what I read at Sonic Stadium to be hilarious. So much fucking doom and gloom. Shit like "I think SEGA should cut their losses and stop with Sonic 4 now... its ruining the franchise... theyre waisitng money blah fuckity blah boo hoo"

For all we know, Ep II will be enjoyed by casual consumers and those who just like a fun game and aren't on Sonic forums 24/7. They make up for a LOT of the sales. Some reviews are good, some average and a few are negative. But user reviews are very good. Like 4.5/5 good. That, coupled with strong sales, is all SEGA needs to deem the game a success and warrant a sequel, which I think will happen.

[max_cady]

I'm just going to rant just one more time, after reading the GameTrailers review... I think there seems to be a major misconception about Sonic the Hedgehog, as a whole. Some of the reviews I've heard and the replies from fans give me the impression that there really is no middle ground on what exactly a Sonic game is all about or what ought to be.

After thinking it through, Sonic the Hedgehog as a brand and character, is an empty vessel to use for whatever SEGA and Sonic Team wants to do with it at any given point. And when you actually examine everything in context, you know it's true. Every iteration of the character feels remarkably different from the last. Because there really is no theology regarding his character. Not even the sligthest attempt to have some continuity.

He's not a clearly defined character, nor the actual gameplay is even remotely defined. He has super speed. Sonic is much like Super Mario and the few surviving game mascots, whom are are still around due to multiple iterations and changes. Some good, some bad.

[CrazyT]

^There is a great in depth thread about that over at sonicretro. It  is quite an interesting read since the OP is really well thoroughly written. I agree too, sonic used to be very defining in his early days. Now it's like everything except for sonic generations (since it was a throwback, but even that had green hill next to zones like crisis city...) are different. As if everything from the past is instantly forgotten

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=e41648c016fa7f32f136649ae004f649&showtopic=28924

[Barry the Nomad]

My beef with bad reviews is the insistance that a Sonic 4 must surpass Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

Look, I WOULD love a game that blew S3&K out of the water, but I am a realist. Sonic Team as it was in the Genesis days is long gone. The team has changed so much that they don't have the same people and goals that the franchise had in the mid 90's. Not to mention that the landscape has changed for games. In the mid 90's 2D Sonic was a AAA top tier type of game. Now, in 2012, 2D platformers are retro throwbacks (rightfully) relegated to digital download services. There HAVE been exceptions: Mario has 2D disc releases, but they are mainly retro rehashes intended to appeal to older fans who remember the old days. Not to mention, Nintendo has the money to spend on these types of games and Mario will sell even if it's a spin-off involving player dressing Mario with the Wiimote.

Rayman is another exception, but (and this is what I had thought I heard) Origins was not a sales success. The thing dropped in price within a few months. I got it for $25 when it was initially, what, like $50?

So what I'm getting at is that (1) a fully 2D Sonic game will never be a AAA disc release as it is both a gamble for SEGA and, I think, not the company's goal for the character. Sonic is first a 3D game (Colors, Unleashed, Generations), second a spin-off character (M&S, ASR, Riders) and thirdly a 2D game (portable, digital download). Also (2) Sonic Team does not have the same ideals for the franchise as they did in the 90's and they do not have the same talent. They CAN made a fun 2D game (Generations 2D sections, Episode II) but they cannot make something that will beat the classics unless they put a LOT of effort and money behind it, which as I mentioned is not the goal of the series.

So basically, I'm happy with what they can give. I liked Ep II and I hope we see an Ep III. I don't care if it isn't a Sonic 3 killer or what we dreamed Sonic 4 would be back in the mid-90's. I just want 2D Sonic with the classic stage progression on my home console. I'm glad 2D Sonic broke out of the portable handheld world.

[Radrappy]

I just want fun, high quality games.  I couldn't really care about the theology of the franchise.  I think when people dive into that shit, they're really just looking for reasons why the games aren't as fun now as they were in the 90's.

For me, what's wrong with ep 2 isn't that it somehow breaks the sonic brand, it's that it just isn't any fun.  This is a very subjective thing I realize and i'd love to have a civil discussion about it with you barry seeing as how you're probably one of the game's biggest cheer leaders.       

[Barry the Nomad]

Cheer leaders? ha ha! No no, that would be Ken Balough.

I just enjoyed it. It didn't knock my socks off, but I had fun with it. and in the end thats all I look for in a game: to have fun and enjoy it. Ep ii had both those things, plus a few surpises (the bosses, some of the set pieces).

Really, I just enjoyed it. Not really looking to debate the game. I don't mind discussions, but I'm not really looking to analyze ep II. I feel i've spoken enough about it on the podcast and in the round table. lol, actually ready to talk about other stuff, like where the hell is Anarchy Reigns.

[max_cady]

@CrazyTails

Bravo, that opening post was right on the MONE-AY.

[ezodagrom]

According to the Steam registry, there's a patch being tested for the PC version of Episode 2, and the beta entry has been updated a few times, it's now version ID 15 (the release version, which is what we can play, is version ID 11).



It has gone through quite a few test versions, that makes me wonder what the patch will do whenever it is released.

[max_cady]

I was listening to the podcast Sonic Talk #09 and Ken(and he's the PR guy) does make a very interesting point. The Digital Download market was not the same as it was in 2009/2010, so maybe in that sense, Sonic 4: Episode II might have a little more competiton than expected.

[Aki-at]

^There is a great in depth thread about that over at sonicretro. It  is quite an interesting read since the OP is really well thoroughly written. I agree too, sonic used to be very defining in his early days. Now it's like everything except for sonic generations (since it was a throwback, but even that had green hill next to zones like crisis city...) are different. As if everything from the past is instantly forgotten

http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=e41648c016fa7f32f136649ae004f649&showtopic=28924

He is pulling his Sonic and the Secret Ring numbers straight out of VGChartz so his "sales" argument I cannot agree with, this is a website that has numbers for R Thief in America when it is not even out! What about Sonic the Hedgehog 3 and Sonic & Knuckles? Both titles which did only 1.5 million, whilst Sonic Colours on one platform is only 400,000 or so of meeting that target, or how Sonic Adventure being a pack in did just 2 million, Sonic Unleashed (Spreaded over 4 formats I will give you that) still outsold that title.

And I do not see how two different Sonic's cannot be aimed at two groups of people? In Japan, the 3D Marios struggle to do a million, the 2D Marios do over 3 million effortlessly. Two different styles or gameplay types can be made together, they just have to be good. Which has not been the case for the past decade with a few notable exceptions.

[CrazyT]

Yeah I think there may be some errors in the OP but I still think the guy has a view very good points. Sonic's "essence" was very apealing and I think it still is. It's just that they are being too inconsistent with each game. There is little iconic about the franchise compared to let say most of nintendo's franchises. For example, they had actually removed monitors eventually, just like how they went from imaginitive levels to more real life based environments. Badniks were eventually removed, the artstyle was changed etc etc. These inconsistencies have had a great impact imo because the identity of the franchise which many have grown up with has been lost. Sometimes I meet friends which describe their memories about the hedgehog and when I show them all these new stuff, while they do think it look spectecular, they don't recognize most of whats in their minds. You could say it's nostalgia, but them being so fond of specifically the hedgehogs past apeal over all other things, says alot about its apeal as well. Green hills vibrant looks and music arent iconic for nothing.

The comparison your making about mario isn't the same as sonic's. This is less about gameplay in which I agree it has to be good. But this is more about visual apeal which draws alot of people as well imo. I do think the classic levels in sonic generations showed how much it just works and feels natural, and it also shows such a huge contrast between era's. Though sonic colors's planet wisp is a great level, but then I have always praised sonic colors' levels. Imo these are very important things to be considered for a franchise.

Edit: I just want to add, I think the biggest part of sonic 3's and knuckles decline in sales really had to do with marketing. Sonic 2 was all over the place while I never knew sonic 3 or knuckles existed untill the dreamcast era. Don't know how things were in other countries but this is my experience in the netherlands.