Do you still like Sega?

[MadeManG74]

It's a simple question that might not be easy to answer.
I figure this is good time to post it, because really I have to admit that I don't have as much love for Sega as I used to. I know I've never been as fanatical as some people on this forum (Barry for example has apparantly never bought a new game that wasn't Sega published until RDR, something I find unfathomable as a gamer, even if Sega was my favourite publisher. I think others said they would stop gaming is Sega went bust, again, something I couldn't imagine doing, to me SEGA was always just a part of something much bigger), but even so I find myself caring less and less about Sega with most pieces of news.

Obviously the big one in recent days has been Bayonetta 2 being picked up by Nintendo. I think just about everyone loved the original and we all (except fluffy) remembered why we loved Sega in the first place when playing it and couldn't wait for a sequel. The partnership with Platinum seemed to be a great move that worked well for everyone, and now it's clearly fallen to pieces.

What also has been making me become disinterested is Sega's focus on digital games. I know it makes sense on paper, and there are upsides to it (JSR on XBLA comes to mind), but for every good thing to come of it, there's an announcement of 'A new title!' that turns out to be some $2 iPhone game to play while you're on the toilet. Forgive me for not getting excited about Sega's surprises anymore.

Having said that, almost everything bad I can think of is cancelled out by games like Yakuza 5 and Rome 2 Total War, which are probably my most anticipated games at the moment. Not to mention AM2 still has that fire that makes me love them, Virtua Fighter 5: Final Showdown is a fantastic game and I cannot wait for their next efforts, especially if it's another fighting game.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone else is starting to feel jaded with big blue, in fact I'd be surprised if anyone honestly ISN'T a little worried about them or starting to not care.

Also, yes I still think Sonic games are mediocre at best, and I don't expect them to get better, ever.

[Barry the Nomad]

I'll write more later (good thread idea!) but your RDR fact about me is wrong. 

edit: Okay, got time to post!

To clarify: At the time RDR released, it was the first non-SEGA published title in a long while that I bought brand new, full price, on release week. I do buy a ton of non-SEGA titles, it's just that since I came into this gen so late (2009, I believe) I was playing catch up and buying titles that were either new at reduced prices or used. Up to 2009, PS2 was the only console I had that was deemed "active", so it's not like I had a lot of options for new titles.  I've also bought a lot of non-SEGA games new on digital platforms and new at budget prices. But yeah, it is rare for me to spend $50+ on a brand new, non-SEGA title. I don't think that's a bad thing. It's not like I have a lot of time for home console games. Hell, I still need to beat RDR! lol Next $60 game I'll probably buy on release that is non-SEGA is Watch Dogs (assuming it releases soonish). I also want to check out Sleeping Dogs and Fable: The Journey.

--

Anyway, on topic: Yes, I still like SEGA.

Do I love SEGA as much now as I did in the Dreamcast days? No. But I've come to accept years ago that the SEGA of now is no longer the same as they were in that 1991-2001 era. Even so, the SEGA of now (and I'm talking right now in 2012) is an entity that I love far more than I did in the 2005-2008 era. Oh god, I am so very happy I took a break from video games for those four years, because looking back SEGA was doing a lot of shit that I would have hated. The Sonic franchise was shit, they had a ton of awful third party titles and even a lot of awful first party titles. Franchises that I love, like Golden Axe and
NiGHTS were given poor sequels. They had all those awful Marvel games. Yakuza is the only real bright spot of those years for me, and I only just recently got into the first two. But I know I would have loved them on release.

Really, I think SEGA has greatly improved since 2008. From 2009-2012 I was (and am) proud to be a fan of the company, and I genuinely enjoy their output in that four year span. I'll admit, I think they're scaling back this year has hurt me as a fan a little, because as you mentioned Mademan, it's hard to get excited for an announcement of 'A new title!' when most likely it'll be a small iOS release. Even so, SEGA's iOS output as of recent is great. But it's hardly something to get really excited for.

As is, SEGA is offering me (as a fan) a few big name titles a year, a number of digital rereleases that (finally!) have TLC applied to them (compare SEGA Heritage to the Dreamcast Collection, it's night and day) and iOS releases that are enjoyable. So I'm content as a fan. I'm no longer spoiled like I was in the console era, but I'm far happier now as a fan than I was in the mid-00's.

[max_cady]

Here's the thing, really, I don't think it's me being upset about SEGA, it's more that I am upset at the video games industry in general.

I am kinda upset at SEGA, for being generally non-chalant about their games and failing to generate any type of buzz about 'em, but really I see virtually no difference in how everyone else is doing. 2012 has been a horrible year for the video games industry in general.

This has added a feeling of being jaded, not only towards SEGA's games but... screw it... everybody else too.
I don't care about Call of Duty, Halo, Gears of War, Battlefield, Assassin's Creed or any other of the major games, they don't appeal to me. Even worse, they are starting to become very homogenous.

And also take this into account, general interest in games has greatly declined all over the Internet. One common trend is the ever decreasing traffic in video game-related websites and message board participation... why? Simple, there really is nothing new that's worth getting excited about.
I've noticed that with some of my best buds, we'd chat about video games sometimes what felt like hours, as time went by, our converstations about video games last no more than a brief seconds, against, because it's getting difficult to tell someone that the new FIFA game is worth checking out.

Even with video games news in general, it feels like that the only games that sell are the ones video game journalists actually mention, other than that, they doesn't exist.

But getting back to the question itself, yes, it's starting to get very difficult to defend SEGA as a whole, because the general public perception for this company is that they are essentially this generation's Akklaim, no matter how many good games they release, no matter how much you shout that it's an unfair generalization and it's innacurate. You'd get the same results by talking to a wall.

[ROJM]

I must say its a good topic MM.well done.

My intrest for Sega is a genuine love for the company and a personal one. When I was young my father had several stock options for various companies which the firm he worked for had invested in. One of them was Sega. This was when the company under new management tried to make their first inroad into the west. The system which turned out to be an S3000 barely worked because it was a south african system. but even after when the firm would later sell off most of the stock down the line my dad for some reason kept hold of the sega stock he had as well as a few others whose markets he didn't have any particular intrest in.  My real intrest in Sega sparked four years later after playing some of their games in the arcades in an era when arcades were a dubious place(where you had to be 18 to enter in most of them and they were really fruit machine parlours that happened to have arcade games in them)but because of the caliber of some of these games mainly Sega's most of the town's game players maanged to find a way to get in, mainly because no one saw graphics like that before and the gameplay involved was addictive. And at least for me this passion for this company began to grow and grow, enough for me to get the master system (or my mum did) and once i was earning my own money as a teenager could get the other Sega systems that followed. While my intrest was with the arcades, Sega's home games were also starting to come into their own, and when the whole ninntendo vs sega thing came about it wasn't very hard to see a Sega fan hold his/her head up high because no matter what the competition threw at us, we knew as fans that we were enjoying and playing some of the great games ever to be released. Even during the saturn and the DC, you as a Sega fan could argue the point that while Sony may have had this or that, the saturn had NIGHTS, the Saturn had Megamix or the DC had this or that. Im not going to say i wasn't disilluisoned by some of Sega's choices with their consoles especially what happened with the saturn and the Dc which made me abandon console gaming for a while but as always it was because of the efforts of the sega's console staff that saw me return to that front. Now im an adult i inherited my late father's stock in this company and even brought some of my own as a way to be close to him, as well as being close to a passion he helped spark within me. During the years i've become a collector of all sort of sega games and merchandise even biting my tounge when sega became a third party and even when sega sold out to sammy i still thought it was still a good thing. But since the last time i was here regular things have changed. I'm not as passionate for Sega as i once was. While i'm accustomed to the ups and downs that has happened since i became a fan of this company things were different. back then Sega had the talent to pull themselves out of any slump they found themselves in. But now half that talent is gone while the other half are regulated to creating sequels to arcade games or third party games. I dont mind that as much but i dont feel the energy that once existed within the company, an energy that was bursting not just in japan but in the offices of the old Sega of America and europe HQ that also turned up their fair share of games. I dont see a balance in platform. While i doubt Sega will totally abandon making games for console systems, this whole reshuffling and jumping head first into a market that's voliatile at best just nailed it that not only my love affair of collecting the modern sega games may be at least over(i mean can one really collect a download and put it on your shelf?) but that Sega's just going over the easier road which for a company that never took the easy route is hard for a fan to really understand even though i understand the situation. I ended up selling off my dad stock and my own but not all of it. Not as a protest(which would be silly) but just that its time to move on. I still play their arcade titles when i have the time but even that's not as freash as it was a few years back and the passion for Sega isn't entirely dead but things have changed too much for me to just blindly go over the hill and take that bullet for em. The penny dropped when a realgreat line up (which they have managed to build several good release line ups for the last couple of years) was horribly mismanaged and to a degree is probably part of the reason why the returns have been so dire. When Platnium openly says "Sega didn't know how good are games were" how can i argue with that when Sega obviously didn't know how good some of their inhouse Sega games were for them to handle it like they did. Can one be excited over a bunch of IOS games? Can anyone really get excited that they will focus on five main titles, which only two have of them are actually original IP made by Sega while the others arent? Is this after all the great leagcy of games has essentially come to? While i understand the situation they are in as a fan i cant possible go into the direction, because what we are mainly talking here is a change of Sega's philosphy since they were founded. They going towards the quick and easy route. When they never took anything but even when their backs were against the wall. Creating games that wont really wow anyone letalone be much innovative. Maybe i'm wrong, hopefully i'm wrong. But its enough doubt for my fire to be burnt out and just watch from afar from time to time.

[Radrappy]

I more or less lost faith in Sega when they left the console biz.  Ever since then their games have been less inspired, of lower quality, and tonally all over the place.  I don't know what the Sega brand even means any more.  I got into gaming because of my love for colorful quirky japanese games and similar to what max cady said, the current gaming trends hold no interest for me.  I've tried to enjoy games that journalists have showered with 10/10 scores(like Mass Effect 2, Uncharted, halo, etc) but they just don't have a lot of personality.  They feel like mediocre interactive hollywood movies at best.  You're lucky Barry, that you skipped Sega during 2005-2008 because those were some terrible, terrible years.  That era single handedly leveled their credibility as a developer and they have yet to recover(and at this rate they never will). 

About Sega currently, nothing could be more worrisome than their silence.  I feel like almost all of their development teams have clammed up.  AM2 hasn't made anything new or original in a long, long time.  Am3 has been completely silent for 6 years.  Only Segawow/overworks has anything to show with the lovely Valkyria Chronicles series (arguably the best thing sega has done since they left consoles).  But it's clear that Sega isn't interested in taking Valkyria anywhere other than cheap ios efforts.  Platinum games has been abandoned and a  recent restructuring has made it clear that Sega can no longer afford to be the risk taker they've always been.

It's ironic (given the 90's feud) that I find myself drifting more and more towards nintendo to enjoy what it was that got me into games in the first place.  Their consistently high quality experiences, intriguing hardware innovations, and relative intact creative integrity doesn't hurt either.  As far as I can tell they're the only console developer still in it for the games. 

And as for the sonic franchise, I have mixed opinions.  Over time I have grown to accept that the SA games were crap and that the last amazing Sonic title was S&K.  I was surprisingly pleased with Sonic Colors as it had its heart in the right place.  Sonic generations on the other hand, is junk.  It could go either way at this point but I have a lot more faith in whoever developed Colors than whoever was in charge of Generations.   

[Randroid]

Another topic too interesting to pass up.

Sega still has my love and knows how to spark my gaming passion. If they were to close up shop entirely in the west (it's next to impossible that they'll stop operations in japan) then I would only buy their jp titles and start collecting retro sega seriously (something I'm dabbling with now).

The major Western franchises are starting to all look the same (do look forward to Watchdogs though).

Their JP titles and ideas are exactly what makes sega great, they're just so unappreciated here in the west when they get a release.

Titles like:

Yakuza series
7th Dragon series
Shining series
Hatsune Miku
Initial D
Border Break
Virtua Fighter series
Phantasy Star Online 2

all remind me that sega still has it and will stay strong where they are appreciated (Japan). Even the sonic series still has it (Colors and Generations were brilliant).

But as far as how they stand in the west, they are niche now just as they were niche back in the day (there was just less competition to make it apparent). 

And as far as platinum goes, Bayo and Vanquish were brilliant, but I'm starting to think Sega was right not to release Anarchy Reigns. It's a fun title, but again I doubt it would have been appreciated in the west. It's just not an FPS or GTA clone.

[Pao]

Sure do, I wouldn't be around here if I didn't.

Yeah, they are not exactly living their golden age, but they are still my favorite publisher this generation... A lot of their both developed and published games were nothing short of brilliant... From the Shogun 2, Renegade Ops, Condemned, to Valkriya Chronicles, Yakuza 3, and Binary Domain.

My top 10 games of the generation list is filled with Sega games, and I especially enjoyed their digital output, games like After Burner Climax, Renegade Ops, Hell Yeah, VF5FS are one of the many reasons I am hopeful with SEGA's new digital strategy, if that means we will get fun, innovative, and brilliant arcade-ish games like the ones above, then I'm all for it!

[Barry the Nomad]

I think the great thing about SEGA (and anything with a fandom for that matter) is that no matter what they do now or in the future, we still have 20+ years of output from them to enjoy. I mean, if SEGA went out of business tomorrow I'd be crushed. But I'd also still have hours and hours (or maybe even years) of games that I've never fully experienced.

Look at the poor Atari fans, they've had to rely on compilations for the past 20 years. At least with SEGA, when they left the console market they've still delivered on games. All of Yakuza is a post console franchise, as is the bulk of the good 3D Sonic games.

[semmie]

sega is libero since it doesnt have a console at the moment.

so therefor wherever the games come it is just what it is. i dont hate sega. i love it. and ill love it more with a console and a base

[Ben]

Sega's had their ups and downs since going 3rd party, that's for sure. At this point in time I'm not at all a fan of where they seem to be heading; their 'play it safe' approach is the exact opposite of what they've always stood for.

In the wake of failure you have little choice, of course, but the failures they've faced seem to be almost entirely their own doing....you can't do this effortlessly, Sega...if you release games, especially new IP, especially late in a cycle, you have to market them. A few mini-trailers to a Youtube page and a couple nice people as your Community Managers don't cut it...you need to do more.

Hell Yeah just came out, it caught me completely by surprise. No marketing, nothing.

Jet Set Radio's fun but it's also like the 10th time I'm playing it...I can clear it in basically 1 afternoon.

[Nameless 24]

I got back into SEGA games in late 2009 from All Stars Racing and Valkyria Chronicles.

I've grew up on the Mega Drive and played Sonic and Streets of Rage for years...but before, my love for SEGA was very diluted (I loved SEGA's games, but not like I appreciate them today...and I can't say the same for Nintendo...although I think their output is a little better now then back then).

I think I love SEGA more then ever, but I tend to play a wide spectrum of games (Rayman Origins is fantastic, and when I went to play Sonic Colours on the Wii a few months back, the two games play very well to me, so I am glad of the direction of where the Rayman series is going).

I would say that their input now is on par or better then their Dreamcast years! (I never owned a Dreamcast by the way...and I have tried most of their catalogue then, but only a few interest me vs what they do now/what they did in the Mega Drive years) Valkyria Chronicles is a potential goldmine which SEGA sadly decided to not follow up on properly (and probably the best SRPG franchise of all time, including Fire Emblem), Yakuza has a very dedicated fanbase outside of the SEGA fandom (I know a few fans who could care less about SEGA, but love Yakuza), and Binary Domain...don't get me started on that game...pure quality as a shooter but sadly didn't sell very well.

Platinum's efforts have been great too (not a fan of Bayonetta sadly, but I did finish it and thought it was well created).

I can see why people are fed up of SEGA's idiotic decisions and their lack of faith in their franchises, but I haven't given up on the quality (most people debate this, as it does appear B-Tier to most gamers, but I say it's subjective....No More Heroes as a series is an example of style vs substance...the first game was bare ones but apparently better then the sequel with many different things going for it) of their games and franchises since it appeals to me, as it's unique to what SEGA does.

Would I quit gaming should SEGA cease to exist? Nope...as I don't game these days anyway due to not feeling motivated by anything (it's sad when the two things you love doing you can't be bothered to do? My two things are SEGA games and Ghibli Studio films), but it'd leave a hole in my gaming collection in the future.

If I ever lose my love in SEGA games, it'll be due to their lack of effort, which I don't see in them despite the mistakes they made.

[Aki-at]

Of course, Virtua Fighter and Yakuza are still part of them and either are almost always deadset to be my GOTYs when ever a new title drops, add to that Football Manager too whenever I feel my life needs to amount to nothing else but managing a virtual team. There is a lot less quantity yes, but the same is said about the industry in general. EA dropped from 72 retail titles in 2008 to 14 this current year and Konami only had one inhouse developed title this TGS (With everything else being digital)

Gaming is in the gutter and is in the middle of a crash for retail gaming whilst another crash soon to happen over iOS gaming (Namco/SEGA/Konami/Capcom/Square am cry) a truly sad situation we find gaming in but c'est la vie. I plan on moving onto PC for next generation in anycase, nothing from the big 3 seems particularly interesting, Xbox has never been my thing, Sony will go all art and no substance and Nintendo is not too special anymore either.

[MadeManG74]

I'm surprised people are so excited about Watch Dogs like it's something different and new. It looked kinda bland to me when I saw it. 

In any event:
Barry -
Sorry about the misunderstanding about the RDR situation, I thought it was the first time you'd bought a non-sega game that was new or something. But yeah that makes sense, and i know what you mean abou time constraints. I don't get how people complain about no good games anymore, when I constantly find myself never having time to play the ones I want to.

On a more general note:

I have to disagree with being jaded with gaming overall, for the most part I still think there's a good number of games being released, just that Sega of late seems to be dissapointing me a lot. Sure you don't have to like COD, Gears, AC (although I actually like Gears and AC series a lot), but there's still a lot of other stuff doing the rounds. Way of the Samurai 4 comes out soon and that looks interesting, and I'm still playing the excellent Dark Souls for example. Having said that though, I fully expect titles like this to move towards download only, since retail is hurting something severe. The big games are getting a little bit bigger, but everything else is falling apart. It doesn't really bother me as much as other people, because there will always be a place for those niche games, even if it's not on the shelf. I hope that Sega does more downloadable games of substance (like The Cave is looking to turn out) rather than iOS games and the like only.
 
I want to say though, I mean do you like Sega and their outputs right now. I'm sure we all love Sega overall for their past efforts and their library over the decades, but as of right now, they're just kind of another publisher. They still have gold like Virtua Fighter and Yakuza as many have said, but even titles like Total War... well, would anybody notice if Activision was publishing that instead of Sega? I know that this is a slippery slope to go down, but really it's the kind of series that would exist with or without Sega, so i find myself not linking it to Sega as much as their home-grown titles, even though it's 100% Sega owned and made. I could go into the recent terrible DLC plans that Shogun 2 had, but I won't.

[ROJM]

I want to say though, I mean do you like Sega and their outputs right now. I'm sure we all love Sega overall for their past efforts and their library over the decades, but as of right now, they're just kind of another publisher. They still have gold like Virtua Fighter and Yakuza as many have said, but even titles like Total War... well, would anybody notice if Activision was publishing that instead of Sega? I know that this is a slippery slope to go down, but really it's the kind of series that would exist with or without Sega, so i find myself not linking it to Sega as much as their home-grown titles, even though it's 100% Sega owned and made. I could go into the recent terrible DLC plans that Shogun 2 had, but I won't.

Im more concerned with the actions that satomi is doing. Most of the expansions into new markets that Sega has undertaken under Hajime Satomie has failed. The China market expansion, effectivly failed. The Sega west reorganisation has had mixed results but ultimatly that too has failed. The international arcade market expansion too ultimatly failed. And now the company's consumer buisness is in very dire straits and he's planning to put most of their eggs in one basket and jump into the digital field. If that doesn't pan out goodness knows what will happen. And can anyone really say that they are fine having little to no big Sega games for the next gen consoles? Is ALIEN from Creative Assembly and Sonic really going to pacify the majority next gen? While the majority of the output is going to be download ios games that wont even recquire cutting edge tech to show off the games like the old sega use to do, still do(to an extent) and are pratically known for? I really do think that Sega is in deeper trouble than we all think and judging from past actions and results this could really be the time when the fat lady sings for Sega.

[segaismysavior]

I would like SEGA more if they focused on in-house development, rather than publishing. Yakuza, Valkyria, and Sonic games are all evolutionary of the SEGA I used to love, not so much Aliens and Total War. I miss all the arcade style games that I could pick up and play for 20 minute bursts, but not tire of until months later. Games that were pushing technology forward with incredible visuals and adrenaline pumping gameplay, but did present a few bugs to chuckle over.

I did enjoy Renegade Ops, and want more like it. If SEGA focused more on new PSN/XBLA games, then I'd be thrilled. Stop chasing the big players, cause they're just causing the industry to collapse.