Where did it really go wrong in the sega console era

[ROJM]

Where he did . The man that got the DC to shift the most Hardware, the most software and the man that didn't want SEGA to stop production of the DC, the man that pushed the DC On-line features the most .

Just continued stuff from what the previous president did. Nothing more nothing less.

All the DC best selling software sales came from the USA not Japan or the joke that was the DC in Europe .

No shit.

Console with a Modem built in as standard belongs to the Pippin, not Atari.

Not the first to use the technology which is what i said. Atari was the first to use modem tech with the game line, then someone else, i forgotten who and then Sega with the Mega modem and later on Seganet for saturn.

X-Box LIVE was nothing like DC Online for a whole host of reasons not least running P2P instead of Dictated services. MS Spend millions a years developing LIVE and it showed . At the time LIVE was ahead of anything on the consoles and PC .

Weren't you saying that DC dream arena was similar to XBOX LIVE years ago? Regardless, live wouldn't have happened without some of the things spearheaded by DC online and hEATnet.

One area quite a lot of people ripped off SEGA Japan and the DC  was in having classic download service.

True.

It was less of an add on and more of its own console . And it split SEGA development and marketing Budgets , that with also trying to support a Handheld, the MD and Arcade was asking for trouble

32x needed the megadrive to work. So it was an add on.

And we can thank the 32X for that . Saturn came some 6 years after the MD launched in Japan. With out the 32X in the West you would have had the likes of Star Wars, Doom, VR Delux Ect all to go along with Panzer, VF, Daytona USA (that's more enough for launch software)
 and I doubt the Saturn would have been rushed out either (after the 32X started to see massive drops in sales) 

No we can thank SOJ for it. None of the titles would have appeared on the saturn anyway and that's a fact that you keep forgetting. many of the third parties and certain Sega games that had titles canned once the 32x stopped development didn't bother to move any of the 32x titles onto the Saturn so that point you have made is flimsy at best.
 

[ROJM]

I never said that it was a bad thing that SEGA did that, just that they handled the tail end of that generation wrongly.

But they were first, on every console since the Mega Drive...so it is, up to a point a correct statement. Disorganisation was a part of it, but look at Sony and Nintendo, who've also took a mis-step in the past so I wouldn't put that down on SEGA alone.

Sega didn't have the sole focus that Nintendo and Sony had. Briefly they had it during the nineties but it all fell apart. The tail end, several game systems they were supporting, an arcade industry to cater for, the expansion into themeparks and rides as well as them dipping into the electronic toy market, was too many things at once.

[Team Andromeda]

Just continued stuff from what the previous president did

Peter Done a lot to push the On-Line side of things and did wonders with the tiny Budget he had left to him.

No shit

Yep . SEGA America did the best with the DC and were sadly letdown by poor sales in Japan and Europe .

Not the first to use the technology which is what i said

I'm on about Consoles . Think like that PC's were the 1st to do almost anything

i forgotten who and then Sega with the Mega modem and later on Seganet for saturn.

Not Built into the consoles and it was X-Band that did the hardware and On-line  side of things . So

Weren't you saying that DC dream arena was similar to XBOX LIVE years ago

No . X-Box Arcade was quite like the classic games download system SEGA Japan did for the DC in Japan where users could download classic MD and PC-Eng games and play them on the DC.

Regardless, live wouldn't have happened without some of the things spearheaded by DC online and hEATnet.

MS would have known more about on-line that SEGA given their PC background and the way they bought Netscape out of the game.

32x needed the megadrive to work

Add on yes, but in reality a new system that used little of the MD to get its power

None of the titles would have appeared on the saturn anyway and that's a fact that you keep forgetting

Of course they would have . Looking over how it was SEGA Japan that made the likes of VR Delux , the Saturn beat even part of the 32X and it even had faster SH-2 's . So the same Teams could have made the same games for the more powerful Saturn and it would have helped the Saturn launch

[Nameless 24]

Sega didn't have the sole focus that Nintendo and Sony had. Briefly they had it during the nineties but it all fell apart. The tail end, several game systems they were supporting, an arcade industry to cater for, the expansion into themeparks and rides as well as them dipping into the electronic toy market, was too many things at once.

I agree with that yeah.

To be fair to them, when you suddenly have success, you want to capitalise on it.

Unfortunately for SEGA, they spread themselves too thin when they had money in their pocket.

[ROJM]

Peter Done a lot to push the On-Line side of things and did wonders with the tiny Budget he had left to him.

Prehaps not enough.

Yep . SEGA America did the best with the DC and were sadly letdown by poor sales in Japan and Europe .

Shame really.

I'm on about Consoles .

Last i checked the Atari 2600 was a console.

Not Built into the consoles and it was X-Band that did the hardware and On-line  side of things . So

But not the first consoles to use the tech which is what i stated all along.

No . X-Box Arcade was quite like the classic games download system SEGA Japan did for the DC in Japan where users could download classic MD and PC-Eng games and play them on the DC.

Not quite.

MS would have known more about on-line that SEGA given their PC background and the way they bought Netscape out of the game.

Not in the context for consoles they didn't. They definatly used Sega as a model on how to guide their systems online endevors.

 

Add on yes, but in reality a new system that used little of the MD to get its power

No it was an add on simple as.

Of course they would have . Looking over how it was SEGA Japan that made the likes of VR Delux , the Saturn beat even part of the 32X and it even had faster SH-2 's . So the same Teams could have made the same games for the more powerful Saturn and it would have helped the Saturn launch

But they didn't and that's the point you can't accept. Most of the games designated for 32x ever moved to the Saturn, because those titles were never intended to be ported in the first place.And that includes the original titles for the add on system.

[Team Andromeda]

Prehaps not enough.

He did all he could with the money (well lack off ) he had left . Sega America were letdown by poor sales in Japan and the DC just being a flop in Europe (after a good start) and SOE alos screwed up any hope of the On-line side of things taking off for the DC in Pal land at least SEGA Japan did try by the Japanese were too in love with the PS brand and Final Fantasy to really care .

Last i checked the Atari 2600 was a console

LOl couldn't play On-line and the Intellivision was the 1st console to offer download games over the network, but that was cable . Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem built in.

But they didn't and that's the point you can't accept.

? With out the 32X they would have been made for the Saturn and that would have added to the Saturn launch line up

 

[ROJM]

He did all he could with the money (well lack off ) he had left . Sega America were letdown by poor sales in Japan and the DC just being a flop in Europe (after a good start) and SOE alos screwed up any hope of the On-line side of things taking off for the DC in Pal land at least SEGA Japan did try by the Japanese were too in love with the PS brand and Final Fantasy to really care .

not good enough, sorry.

LOl couldn't play On-line and the Intellivision was the 1st console to offer download games over the network, but that was cable . Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem built in.

Not the first system to deliever the concept. keep spinning, you lost, end of argument.

? With out the 32X they would have been made for the Saturn and that would have added to the Saturn launch line up

No it wouldn't. Those games at least the majority of them were never going to get ported on the Saturn. Guess what? They didn't get ported either. Half of Capcom's titles designated for the 32x never moved up to the Saturn and that's even when they started releasing their much cherised arcade packs. Neither did any of this so called arcade port titles from third parties that the 32x "stole" from the saturn made it to the PSX either which further destroys your nonsense hypothesis.
 




[/quote]

[Team Andromeda]

not good enough,

He tried is best and SEGA America did a far better push with the DC than SEGA Japan (which couldn't even get the launch right) or the baboons at SEGA Europe did that's for sure .

Not the first system to deliever the concept.

Not that would be the likes of the PC.

 A 'console' shipping with a 'Modem' built in to allow users to go on-line that would be the Pippin .

Those games at least the majority of them were never going to get ported on the Saturn

? Yeah... Doom wound't come to the Saturn and SOJ wouldn't bring their own games like VR and Star Wars to the Saturn if they were developed for the 32X instead ? Keep it coming

Half of Capcom's titles designated for the 32x never moved up to the Saturn

These games would be ? Most of Japan and the likes of Capcom couldn't have careless about the 32X in truth , not even Treasure or Game Arts would commit to the format. 

[ROJM]

He tried is best and SEGA America did a far better push with the DC than SEGA Japan (which couldn't even get the launch right) or the baboons at SEGA Europe did that's for sure .
 

Didn't do good enough. Simple as.

Not that would be the likes of the PC.

wasn't talking about computers.

A 'console' shipping with a 'Modem' built in to allow users to go on-line that would be the Pippin .

Nope consoles with modem tech appeared well before the pippin. That's what i've always said and shall continue to say. You can keep spinning all you want you got it wrong simply because you never stated the difference and it doesn't make a difference. Modem technology for game systems had existed before the pipsquek came into existance. Its like saying DC was the first system to give people internet options when the tech existed on previous consoles before it. 
 

? Yeah... Doom wound't come to the Saturn and SOJ wouldn't bring their own games like VR and Star Wars to the Saturn if they were developed for the 32X instead ? Keep it coming

What you mean VR the game that was licensed to someone else to do on saturn? Oh yes, the multitude of scheduled games coming for 32x that didn't get shifted onto the Saturn after its demise? Oh yes, and the likes of COSMIC CARNAGE would have really fit well with the saturn. LOL what a laugh! You're blind when it comes to the saturn. Sega had NO intention of bringing the majority of titles that they released or had scheduled for the 32x to appear on the Saturn. That's why it came out on the 32x in the first place. And that's why none of these games appeared on the saturn either. and that includes the likes of capcom, konami and a few others too.
 

These games would be ? Most of Japan and the likes of Capcom couldn't have careless about the 32X in truth , not even Treasure or Game Arts would commit to the format. 

Rubbish, capcom was going to release a few titles like their version of Aliens and predator. But of course you wouldn't remember that.

[Team Andromeda]

Didn't do good enough

SEGA America did amazing , SEGA Japan and Europe screwed the DC up .

wasn't talking about computers

In that case the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.

Nope consoles with modem tech appeared well before the pippin.

Well anyone with the likes of Saturn, Mega Drive , even CDI could tell you that consoles that offered on-line functions long before the DC . Everyone bangs on about the DC being the 1st console to ship with a Modem and on-line functions  has standard, when  it was the Pippin that done that.

What you mean VR the game that was licensed to someone else to do on saturn

Yes. AM#2 were up to their eyeballs  with various Saturn and Arcade projects and the CS Team (that handled 32X VR) were singed up to the task to port Rally to the Saturn. So sadly the game was handled out . Doesn't change with out 32X the CS would have just been given the task to port VR to Saturn if they wasn't a 32X.

Oh yes, and the likes of COSMIC CARNAGE would have really fit well with the saturn. LOL what a laugh! You're blind when it comes to the saturn.

I really don't know what you are rambling about; Only to say the Saturn had its fair share of 2D Vs Fighter both good and bad and Cosmic Carnage, would have just been another in a long line of Saturn Vs Fighters .

That's why it came out on the 32x in the first place.

Most of the 32X games were poor and quite laughable That's why most 32X games never went to the Saturn or the Saturn just had a far better alternative.

capcom was going to release a few titles like their version of Aliens and predator.

1 game and hardly Capcom finest . Capcom  made 1 game for the 3DO  but everyone knew Capcom didn't really care for the format and the same was true for the 32X. Mind you if those consoles sold in the millions, it would have been different.


 

 

[ROJM]

SEGA America did amazing , SEGA Japan and Europe screwed the DC up .

Not amazing enough.

In that case the Pippin was the 1st console to ship with a Modem has standard.

Not the first to use modem tech which has always been the point I made. Yet you had to argue with me over two pages for you to come to the proper conclusion.

Well anyone with the likes of Saturn, Mega Drive , even CDI could tell you that consoles that offered on-line functions long before the DC . Everyone bangs on about the DC being the 1st console to ship with a Modem and on-line functions  has standard, when  it was the Pippin that done that.

which brings back to the point that the pippin wasn't the first system to use modem technology.

Yes. AM#2 were up to their eyeballs  with various Saturn and Arcade projects and the CS Team (that handled 32X VR) were singed up to the task to port Rally to the Saturn. So sadly the game was handled out . Doesn't change with out 32X the CS would have just been given the task to port VR to Saturn if they wasn't a 32X.

Or more likely that they had no intention to port the game in the first place which is why it was licensed out.

I really don't know what you are rambling about; Only to say the Saturn had its fair share of 2D Vs Fighter both good and bad and Cosmic Carnage, would have just been another in a long line of Saturn Vs Fighters .

Your kidding? You lost all credibility that you had concerning this. What a joke. CC isn't even Saturn standard and never was going to be. Most of the 32x games weren't so with a few exceptions, they were never going to go towards the Saturn, which they didn't. And the only one rambling and spitting nonsense so far has been you.

Most of the 32X games were poor and quite laughable That's why most 32X games never went to the Saturn or the Saturn just had a far better alternative.

You just been arguing that the Saturn would have been the home for 32x games if that add on never happened and now you are saying they weren't good enough to be considered? You just contridicted yourself in your own post.LOL.

1 game and hardly Capcom finest . Capcom  made 1 game for the 3DO  but everyone knew Capcom didn't really care for the format and the same was true for the 32X. Mind you if those consoles sold in the millions, it would have been different.

Yawn, you just said they weren't considering it now you're backtracking. Capcom just about everyone else wanted to ride the gravy train that was Sega at that time and most third parties didn't even think that the 32x wouldn't succeed that's why many of them did sign up for the system including capcom. In the case of Capcom they wanted to get in on the ground floor after frankly missing out on good sales thanks to the illegal contract that nintendo had them in. So they as well as the other big guns at the time pratically rused to sign with Sega, for the saturn that promised to dominate the next level of systems and an add one that would extend the life of a system userbase.


 

 

[Team Andromeda]

Not amazing enough

Well you know only GOD is perfect  . To be fair SEGA Japan messed up with the Mega Drive too and it was SEGA America and Europe that did the best . Sadly having both Japan and Europe let the side down was too much for Sega America.

Not the first to use modem tech which has always been the point I made

Neither was Atari.

which brings back to the point that the pippin wasn't the first system to use modem technology

Pippin was 1st console to ship with a Modem built in , its fact.

Or more likely that they had no intention to port the game in the first place which is why it was licensed out

Am#2 were too busy to handle the title (just like with MD version) It would have been given out for the CS Team to handle the port and with no 32X to worry about , they 1st 32 bit next gen game would have been VR for the Saturn.

What a joke. CC isn't even Saturn standard and never was going to be

Christ, there's plenty of utter shit 2D Beat them ups on the Saturn. The Street Fighter II the move is crap beyond belief and Battle Monsters laughable and that's just a couple of some of the shit . There's always crap and poor games in a new system life .

you just said they weren't considering it now you're backtracking

You said you make a list and produced 1 game lol and it was Hardly Capcom's finest hour . I put to you Capcom 32 bit plans were all for the PS and Saturn and it showed it their output , very, very early on.

In the case of Capcom they wanted to get in on the ground floor after frankly missing out on good sales thanks to the illegal contract that nintendo had them in.

That deal was done in the NES days, not that it matters Capcom got around that by letting NEC and SEGA handle the ports In-House for their 16 bit/8 bit  consoles and more so Capcom even handled SF II port for the MD In-House even though SF II was meant to be exclusive  to the Nintendo and Snes .

Capcom and most of the Japanese studios didn't care for the 32X at all

[ROJM]

Well you know only GOD is perfect  . To be fair SEGA Japan messed up with the Mega Drive too and it was SEGA America and Europe that did the best . Sadly having both Japan and Europe let the side down was too much for Sega America.

Oh yes dont get me wrong the DC showed signs of improvement but the people put in charge of the time were nincompoops. Katz and Kalinske made the genesis successful half the time than those other buffoons did. They even managed to make the master system sell a little longer in the states and that in itself was a miracle. Each divison has to get credit to what they did for each system's era. Sega europe effectivly made sure the MS made it successful but made sure it lasted longer than it did. SOA for making the MD a hit. SOJ for actually getting the japanese mainstream interested in Sega products with the Saturn. But the DC no one did a good enough job. There was just as much waste with SOA handling with the DC as there was success. I will say this that there attempt to revive old SOA ip was commendable and bringing the PC titles to DC was a small milestone, a project that was meant to happen with the saturn and Segasoft. But the people in charge weren't up to the task. Shame as you had the teams in place in SOA, you had the dev talent with SOJ they just didn't have the leadership to focus it. In fact one could say the games released for that era happened in spite of the leadership and not because of it. 

Neither was Atari.

Beg to differ.

Pippin was 1st console to ship with a Modem built in , its fact.

Not the first to use modem technology. That's what i said and always had said. Regardless where the modem is in or outside the system. Keep backtracking, you lost and you know it.

Am#2 were too busy to handle the title (just like with MD version) It would have been given out for the CS Team to handle the port and with no 32X to worry about , they 1st 32 bit next gen game would have been VR for the Saturn.

Which kinda puts a blow to your point then. Obviously if the 32x was nothing then SOJ wouldn't bother using one of their top teams to port a title for an add on system, you'd expect it to happen for the saturn.

Christ, there's plenty of utter shit 2D Beat them ups on the Saturn. The Street Fighter II the move is crap beyond belief and Battle Monsters laughable and that's just a couple of some of the shit . There's always crap and poor games in a new system life .

For christ sakes, Battle monsters graphics looked way way much better than CC. Some of the 32x titles just  looked like superior SNES graphics while half of the saturn launch titles despite their buggy nonsense looked much better(apart from VF) but that looked richer in the CGI department than its 32x counterpart. There was no way that Sega would ever used the 32x games as launch titles for Saturn.

You said you make a list and produced 1 game lol and it was Hardly Capcom's finest hour . I put to you Capcom 32 bit plans were all for the PS and Saturn and it showed it their output , very, very early on.

What list? i never mentioned a list for 32x? The list i was talking about was about how many games SOJ released for their systems and that the saturn had the lowest compared to the MD and DC. So stop lying. And keep using that nonsense about PSX, fact is all the major third parties commited to 32x but didn't release a game when Sega royally screwed up things.

That deal was done in the NES days, not that it matters Capcom got around that by letting NEC and SEGA handle the ports In-House for their 16 bit/8 bit  consoles and more so Capcom even handled SF II port for the MD In-House even though SF II was meant to be exclusive  to the Nintendo and Snes .

Capcom and most of the Japanese studios didn't care for the 32X at all

I don't need a history lesson. And your point is moot since the profits went to the companies that took the license and not to Capcom. Which is why when Capcom and many others was free of that contract they wanted to exploit their IP on other systems as soon as possible and considering at the time the Sega brand was a hot property which also cornered the market and managed to make a cd rom add on relatively successful across the world, there was no reason in many of the third parties minds that this wouldn't be repeated again with the 32x. But again you'd have to actually had been there, read the reports at the time and the press statements concerning the situation to know that. The reason is everything you say is in hindsight and not from a first person experience of the situation of the time. Trying to create the impression that the 32x was a bomb from the get go when it wasn't is wrong. Trying to make out that no one was interested in the add on for a system that had a large percentage of the biggest games market is wrong. Business is business and at that time it was good for business to deal with Sega who at the period showed no signs of slowing down. But of course things went awry and it did go wrong. But that came afterward when things were already was in place.
 

[Centrale]

If you guys could give each other a slight electrical jolt every time you counter each other's points, I think we'd soon be smelling burning electrodes

[Team Andromeda]

Katz and Kalinske made the genesis successful half the time than those other buffoons did.

Actually the DC sold way better in its 1st year than the Genesis did but there was a world of difference for all sorts of reasons . In the DC days SEGA was losing $200 million a year , selling the DC at a huge loss and trying to take on the might of not just Nintendo, but also SONY and then even MS, never mind the difference  in the cost and size of the Teams needed to make DC games

Not the first to use modem technology. That's what i said and always had said

For the last time !. Pippin was the 1st console where with no add-on's, no additional peripherals, no extra subs  you could enter the world of On-Line straight out of the box (the same was true with the DC) Everything you needed to go on-line was has standard in the box of the console .

That is the difference

Obviously if the 32x was nothing then SOJ wouldn't bother using one of their top teams to port a title for an add on system

It blows away your rubbish that SOJ didn't help SOA and worked against them, they only let the 32X have one its best teams make a laugh title for it
The reasons are quite obvious. SEGA Japan knew it had AM#2 working on Saturn Daytona USA and SOA needed help getting software ready for the 32X. So let the CS team handle the port of VR to the 32X .

Battle monsters graphics looked way way much better than CC

It plays like shit and if you think that Street Fighter the movie looks much better than CC then look again . Both not only look like shit they play like shit

There was no way that Sega would ever used the 32x games as launch titles for Saturn

Doom, Star Wars, VR Delux would have done nicely. 

What list? i never mentioned a list for 32x?

You said a 'few titles' which is more than 1 and so far all we got from you is 1 title .

And keep using that nonsense about PSX, fact is all the major third parties commited to 32x

I deal in facts and Capcom were committed to the PS from day one and every developer around the world gets developer kits for new systems , that's a huge difference from making games for the format . 

I don't need a history lesson

Well then you should know that in the mid 1990's Capcom broke away from the Nintendo lock out deal .