Why Christianity is dying in the U.S.

[Barry the Nomad]

So... ignore everything Nux and I wrote and instead nitpick a little message Will posted a month ago and attack my title? Nice.

[max_cady]

I fail to see why the Great Flood NEEDS to be a thing that happened, and why Christianity cannot co-exist with scientific theory.

I think it can, for example, you gave a plausible explanation to something that by the same explanation, never happened (the great floods as described in Noah's tale).
Also it should be noted in your explanation about the origin of morality and the need to create Gods (though early pagan culture was fairly non-theistic, Babylon, Greek and early Roman was polytheistic), that even something like myths can and in many cases are based on some form of truth, on something plausible. Myths in most cases are either a product of over-elaborated historical accounts, allegories, personification of phenomenoms and rituals. If nothing else, there's always a grain of truth that was behind the myth.

What I mean to say is that even despite the growing lust over technocracy and this insane notion that the scientific method is the only true way to view the world and such, that doesn't not make morality any less trivial because it.

We can acknowledge an imperfect world, we can acknowledge that sometimes one has to step outside of the norms, but the norms are not without meaning.

Also, I would like to add these for further insight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5siHd1P5zk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niIAJC24zd4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsOo-W49kJo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlE7xvc4LoY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElbBq3-5q8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4zsBAN7iGo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZ6zmWbiRm0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m81yAOiSiLQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4G7kPfaVnPY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHG6YTJ_sT8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wozub7b_Whs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBehwncsgbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEeaflyHiMk

[nuckles87]

I think it can, for example, you gave a plausible explanation to something that by the same explanation, never happened (the great floods as described in Noah's tale).
Also it should be noted in your explanation about the origin of morality and the need to create Gods (though early pagan culture was fairly non-theistic, Babylon, Greek and early Roman was polytheistic), that even something like myths can and in many cases are based on some form of truth, on something plausible. Myths in most cases are either a product of over-elaborated historical accounts, allegories, personification of phenomenoms and rituals. If nothing else, there's always a grain of truth that was behind the myth.

Certainly, I'm sure there is a GRAIN of truth to Noah's Flood. There are flood myths all around the world, likely related to local floods experienced by the people there. Floods are a common and worldwide phenomenon after all. Much like how a variety of civilizations have myths regarding giants and dragons, stemming from the discovery of ancient fossils. But a worldwide flood and a giant ark that carried two of every animal simply never happened.

You are a lunatic if I am. You are the one cursing at me, trying to prove my religion is wrong, and telling me my beliefs are dumb. You shouldn't even be an administrator, if you treat people that way. By the way, change the home page. It still says "Happy 4th of July". All of you "smart" administrators forgot to change it.

I realize it's a massive read and I didn't take the time to spell check because I've got other things to do, but I do think I asked a few fair questions of you.

[MadeManG74]

By the way, change the home page. It still says "Happy 4th of July". All of you "smart" administrators forgot to change it.

Check-mate, Atheism.

[George]

Wait, I do disagree with the whole cursing, but Barry did NOT curse at you. He just generally cursed, not directly at you, just said 'for fucks sake dude,' which to me isn't insulting at all. He also isn't calling your religion dumb, he is calling 'wanting to kill homosexuals' dumb, which lets be honest... it its ignorant.

I don't understand why religious people can't just co-exist with homosexuals, who gives a fuck?

The reason most Christians can't co-exist with science or evolution, is due to how they are brought up. Let's see, America is 75% Christians, according to studies. Meaning that 75% of house holds teach kids about God and all that jazz, which is fine. I'm 100% for parents teaching their kids about God, the issue is that they basically teach it as a fact of life. Their kids, their choice. So their kids grow up believing that God made the world, there is a hell (lol) and any other views they their parents where thought get passed down.

So now this kid grows up hating science thinking its an attack on everything they grew up believing, which honestly, it is NOT. Notice how most people in America don't change faiths or have a hard time accepting that maybe, just maybe, there isn't a God out there.

I pretty much knew I was an Atheist when I first went to Sunday school at the age of 8 and asked simple questions, which they punished me because 'I was trying to be funny'.

[max_cady]

For what is worth, I was born and raised in a 99% catholic country (my Mom's a hardcore Christian and admires the new Pope Francis), I don't remotely remember any issue of science vs religion growing up.

I remember the first time I have even heard of the term "Creationism" -> 2005, when I started having actual broadband Internet connection. And even to this day, I don't care about that "clash". I've long gotten the impression that the Internet and social media make a conflict seem more dramatic than what it really is.

Want an intelligent converstation about it? Try sitting through a 2 hour chat on Youtube between a theologist and a philoshoper if that flicks your switch.

[pcm92]

George, I can really see what you are saying. I ask questions about God a good bit myself because I just don't understand how truly powerful He is. I have also experienced other Christians that have been very rude to me. Anyone can be rude to people though. It's what humans do. We all sin. You can believe in whatever it is you want to believe in. That goes for Barry and anyone else in the world. I respect all religions. I am really glad that some atheists are willing to respect mine too.

[max_cady]

Nevertheless, there's one issue that keeps getting repeated over and over again, is the notion of Christians being anti-science or anti-evolution for that matter.

There is no shortage of palpable evidence against this notion: Take Richard Dawkins research and Francis Collin's research, for example.

The former doesn't actually do much research while the latter actually does proper science.

One of the major problem we have today is that even the very terminology of science is also being swept away for trendy subjective redefinitions.

[pcm92]

Nevertheless, there's one issue that keeps getting repeated over and over again, is the notion of Christians being anti-science or anti-evolution for that matter.

There is no shortage of palpable evidence against this notion: Take Richard Dawkins research and Francis Collin's research, for example.

The former doesn't actually do much research while the latter actually does proper science.

One of the major problem we have today is that even the very terminology of science is also being swept away for trendy subjective redefinitions.

Yeah. There is actually a website dedicated to proving God's existence.

Godandscience.org

[George]

The issue here is that most of the bible has mostly been disproven and people always say 'Don't take the word of God literally', then why bother reading at all? Honestly seems the more and more you think of it in context the more it seems to be reading a book written by humans. Do you really think that God gives to shits about slave trading agreements, what our clothes are made of and if we jerk it?

Now if there is a higher power, who knows. But the bible and Christianity itself is a hard pill to swallow. Its weird what people accept but most christians have accepted a white looking Jesus and never bat an eye... so you'll be surprised.

[pcm92]

It really depends on what translation you read out of. I personally use a language translator after using the original Hebrew text. It is completely different from most translations in English. It was very hard for most people in the Middle Ages to read the Bible from English because it did not exist in English until King James ordered people to translate it for him.

[Nameless 24]

Now if there is a higher power.

I would say Black Holes are very powerful, they are made from dead stars. D:

I wonder what God thinks of Black Holes...perhaps it's his plughole and the Universe is his bath.

**I am not that religious honestly...although I like some of the ideas from it.

[crackdude]

If you believe in a god, the Bible isn't hard to believe at all. There are some miracles, which are made by the all-mighty god you believe in. So if you beieve there's a god capable of miracles, I guess it's easy to believe that he has made some over time.

As for creationism:
While it is commonly accepted that animals go through evolution processes, the idea of them evolving from the same original life form is farfetched. You have to be nuts to believe the current theory of how the first cell appeared for example. Not even mentioning the reasoning behind a supposedly random trigger of the Big Bang.
As for Human evolution, the evidence is so poor that it boggles one's mind as to why people accept it as factual. It's true that it's the best model science can come up with without taking into account extraterrestrial creation, but it's far from being solid.

In my point of view you either believe in god or you don't. If you do, the explanations on the Bible are reasonable enough. If you don't, then there are theoretical models that try to explain everything.

Either way there is some sort of faith involved: believing theories that can't be prooved or disprooved in one's lifetime.
The biggest problem though is the arrogance that makes some people disrespect others' beliefs. Example: a user's arrogance ("science provides the answer to everything" implying that if it isn't science it's wrong) turns out to be insulting and leads into a bunch of personal attacks.

I have had some numerous interesting conversations with people with different beliefs than mine. It's good to know other points of view. But I didn't feel the need to try and prove they were wrong. Some people need to feel they are "standing up to what is right". But in this subject it all comes down to what EACH INDIVIDUAL thinks it's right.

People who attack others' beliefs are just baiting for fruitless arguments.

[pcm92]

If you believe in a god, the Bible isn't hard to believe at all. There are some miracles, which are made by the all-mighty god you believe in. So if you beieve there's a god capable of miracles, I guess it's easy to believe that he has made some over time.

As for creationism:
While it is commonly accepted that animals go through evolution processes, the idea of them evolving from the same original life form is farfetched. You have to be nuts to believe the current theory of how the first cell appeared for example. Not even mentioning the reasoning behind a supposedly random trigger of the Big Bang.
As for Human evolution, the evidence is so poor that it boggles one's mind as to why people accept it as factual. It's true that it's the best model science can come up with without taking into account extraterrestrial creation, but it's far from being solid.

In my point of view you either believe in god or you don't. If you do, the explanations on the Bible are reasonable enough. If you don't, then there are theoretical models that try to explain everything.

Either way there is some sort of faith involved: believing theories that can't be prooved or disprooved in one's lifetime.
The biggest problem though is the arrogance that makes some people disrespect others' beliefs. Example: a user's arrogance ("science provides the answer to everything" implying that if it isn't science it's wrong) turns out to be insulting and leads into a bunch of personal attacks.

I have had some numerous interesting conversations with people with different beliefs than mine. It's good to know other points of view. But I didn't feel the need to try and prove they were wrong. Some people need to feel they are "standing up to what is right". But in this subject it all comes down to what EACH INDIVIDUAL thinks it's right.

People who attack others' beliefs are just baiting for fruitless arguments.

I believe that humans could be primates. That does not mean we evolved though. Sharks are fish. Anchovies are fish. That does not mean that sharks came from anchovies. What the evolutionary belief is...

1. No God.
2. No meaning of life.
3. Just dead after death. No afterlife.
4. No goals.
5. No purpose.
6. No free will.
7. No foundation for ethics or morals.
8. No happiness.

Yeah. Sure. Great belief you atheists have. Every unique effect had to have an adequate cause. That is the law of cause and effect. An explosion/big bang would have to come from somewhere. It didn't just appear out of nowhere.

[Barry the Nomad]

Wow. So people who believe in evolution and do not believe in god have none of these things?

1. No God.

Who needs it?

2. No meaning of life.

Having a life in and of itself is meaning enough.

3. Just dead after death. No afterlife.

Makes you enjoy the time you have even more. No looking forward to some fairy tale.

4. No goals.

If that was the case, I wouldn't have a successful career, a wife, great friends, aspirations, the work I do on this site. But look at that, I do have goals.

5. No purpose.

Life itself is enough purpose. Family, friends, and life's many experiences provide all the purpose needed.

6. No free will.

Not being tied to religious doctrine = no free will? Better check that again.

7. No foundation for ethics or morals.

Right here is one of the biggest pieces of bullshit on your list. Well, all your points are bullshit but this is the biggest one of them all. The people that matter to me - my family and friends and coworkers - they are what drive me and my decisions. I have my own code of ethics or morals shaped by the people around me. What I do impacts them. I strive to be a good person because I don't want to let them down and hurt them. I don't care about God. I care about the people I love.

8. No happiness.

The people I love bring me happiness. Not religion. Not god.