Is 2013 one of SEGA's worst years ever? (Long-winded rant)

[CrazyT]

I'm sure the konami part was aimed at me since i was being quoted

To reply, I disagree TA. Can't comment too much about Pro evolution because i haven't played it, but it isn't getting alot of positive reactions. And while it's true that castlevania lords of shadows is a solid game. It is a big letdown for castlevania fans. It sucks that they decided giving up the classic formula for the 3d westernized games. Mirrors of fate on the 3DS was really average and puts konami in a similar spot for me with capcom. I'm not a big fan of established IP names being neglected or used for something totally different. Start a new IP or a spin off instead.

SEGA has done this mistake a lot as well and it didn't pay off but instead killed the namesakes. I like what they are doing now with the their portfolio. I'm loving what they're doing with sonic, yakuza and total war(bad start sadly but seeing the dev comments it seems they're genuinly upset and trying to fix it. this shows that the intention was good). SEGA invested more money into the big IP's hoping to gain from it simply by giving the games the "right" treatment. and i apreciate that compared to others.

I hope going forward we'll this more. As in more frequently, because it does kill the enthousiasm for me as... sort of a sega fan i guess. I can't say that i'm not one like mademang. but have been caring less and less about SEGA. Especially notice this when i dont care people insulting SEGA. I used to hate that but now i either dont care or agree..

[Team Andromeda]

But were not talking about the nineties well the early nineties anyway. were talking about the period in the noughties when the arcades just wasn't enough to bail them out anymore

You can go back to the 80's and the Arcade hey days and no matter , when you corp has debt equal to half the valve of your corp you are in serious trouble and more often that not will be sold off.

Capcom's been in trouble this gen

They have no debt and have sold millions of copies of games . Sure they will also be seen ripe of a takeover given that have IP that sells and compared to other corps are small.

Yet 22 million profit and 152 million profit as a whole in two separate years,

That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that. 

And while it's true that castlevania lords of shadows is a solid game. It is a big letdown for castlevania fans. It sucks that they decided giving up the classic formula for the 3d westernized games.

Compared to the other 3D versions of the game it was a massive step up in quality and making the game work in 3D and you'll always get fans that bitch about it not being 2D - Hell they do that for Sonic

I'm not a big fan of established IP names being neglected or used for something totally different. Start a new IP or a spin off instead.

And SEGA doesn't do that it's self . I don't many fans are happy with Shining Force on the PSP , we already got PSO on the Vita being used for something different with Nova and look at what happened to the  Valkyria Chronicles that was turned into a web game, Sonic turned into a RPG on the DS and a poor version of Shinobi on the DS . Sadly SEGA it's self is just has guilty as Capcom or Konami.

 

[CrazyT]

I was trying to be a little optomistic. But yes you're right. I'm hoping to see this short term quick buck thinking less. Can't believe they don't see how damaging it is in the long term. Although there's at least a couple of signs of goodwill

I'd be fine with lords of shadows if they didn't decide neglecting the original style and outsource a westernized 2d castlevania instead. Remember that castlevania is a major established franchise.

It reminds me of how boost sonic gameplay took over all 2d/3d games after sonic rush with dimps. Man just the thought of seeing the boost mechanic gone fills me with joy.

[ROJM]

You can go back to the 80's and the Arcade hey days and no matter , when you corp has debt equal to half the valve of your corp you are in serious trouble and more often that not will be sold off.

You're still agreeing with me. God you are confused and inconsistant. No matter what profit the arcades made it couldn't save Sega at the end. sheez.

They have no debt and have sold millions of copies of games . Sure they will also be seen ripe of a takeover given that have IP that sells and compared to other corps are small.

Not enough this generation as this year and 2010 proved.

That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that. 

Yes it does. Its the truth that people like you are trying to deny while capcom fans and the industry are bemonaing the fact that a great third party are in trouble.
2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.

 

And SEGA doesn't do that it's self . I don't many fans are happy with Shining Force on the PSP , we already got PSO on the Vita being used for something different with Nova and look at what happened to the  Valkyria Chronicles that was turned into a web game, Sonic turned into a RPG on the DS and a poor version of Shinobi on the DS . Sadly SEGA it's self is just has guilty as Capcom or Konami.

So what? You being a "longterm" Sega supporter should be used to Sega creating side games of their franchises. What's ISHIN? a proper YAKUZA game? Even though i told you ages ago that the first RGG title for PS4 wasn't going to be a proper game in the series and you kept saying it was. Guess who won that one...
As for SHINOBI 3DS that's down to opinion. as for the others the point is the people buying SHINING FORCE games now aren't the same people who brought it when they were all on Sega systems. Which goes back to my last point most of Sega's custmers are fans of their particular franchises and not necessarly fans of Sega as a whole.

 

[ROJM]

They burned me twice with Bayonetta 2 and the new exclusive Sonic deals, to which I mantain to this day, is a near suicidal undertaking.

Well we shall see what eventually happens. The point of exclusives is to attract the customer to buy the system. BAYONETTA has a strong base in Japan and Sonic has proven to be a very solid seller on Nintendo systems in the west. Two markets that Nintendo needs to gain ground on. Out of the two i'd say Sonic has the bigger struggle to sell systems. If it works then Sega would be in a very comftable position with Nintendo for any future deals.
I've always maintained that they should have taken this route with VANQUISH and BINARY DOMAIN to easily estabilsh those franchises in its own right and then go Multi platform with future installments. As well as the need to really create a few titles for xbox that caters to that market specifically and do the same thing.

[Nameless 24]

That means nothing to fans and you know it . They really care about the games and SEGA doesn't get a good time on boards these days for that. 

Commodore ended up closing because the demand was too high and the costs of a certain part to their C64 wasn't profitable.

Listening to fans sadly means that a company can eventually go bankrupt if they are not careful.

Capcom, by only catering to a certain crowd, gives the other fanbases an excuse to no longer follow them. Look at the Mega Man fans...the series overall surprisingly doesn't sell nearly as well as Monster Hunter, but Capcom have created a bad dent from their lack of support.

[Team Andromeda]

Look at the Mega Man fans...the series overall surprisingly doesn't sell nearly as well as Monster Hunter, but Capcom have created a bad dent from their lack of support

MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them

No matter what profit the arcades made it couldn't save Sega at the end

With out SEGA being inthe console business , SEGA would have been a very profitable company and one with no debts, since I think its Arcade side has only ever posted a loss in 1998. 

Not enough this generation as this year and 2010 proved

Capcom made money in 2010

Capcom has announced its earnings results for the nine months to December 2010. During the period, Capcom earned 70.773b Yen ($863.4m) and saw profits of 6.836b Yen ($83.9m). In the nine months to December 2009, Capcom earned $613.3m in revenue and $21.2m in profit at current exchange rates. The profit figure is roughly four times greater in the current nine month period, while revenues grew a respectable 42%. Capcom retained its fiscal year forecast of 91b Yen in revenue ($1.12b) and 6.5b Yen in profit ($79.8m). The projected figures for April 2010 to March 2011 are up 36% for revenue and 200% for profit.

It made money in 2011

Capcom revealed its earnings for fiscal year 2011, which ended on March 31, and unlike last year it's good news for the company. Net sales increased 46.2% to 97.7 billion yen ($1.2 billion). Operating income was up 155.8%, and ordinary income was up 132.6%. Net income increased to 7.7 billion yen ($95 million), up a whopping 257.6% from the prior year. The company says this marks record net sales, operating income, ordinary income, and net income.

It made money in 2012

Capcom has released its financial report for its 2012 fiscal year which ended March 31, 2012. Revenue dropped 16.0 percent to $12.9 billion. Profits were down 13.2 percent to $1.1 billion. The main cause for the drop is the sales of consumer online games which made of 65.2 percent of the total sales. Sales were down to $717.2 million. Mobile content increased 50.6 percent, to $84.7 million

It made money this year

Capcom revenue climbed by the millions this fiscal year, rising from ¥82 billion ($820 million) to ¥94 billion ($940 million) in revenue according to the publisher's full year financial results for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2013.

Capcom never posted a loss this generation . Though they posted a loss in 2003/4 I think

Its the truth that people like you are trying to deny while capcom fans and the industry are bemonaing the fact that a great third party are in trouble.
2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.

Capcom aren't in trouble and people on the web have gone off SEGA for a number of reasons like the way Sonic was run into the ground, Monkey Ball run into the ground  poor sequels to the likes of Nights,Golden Axe, Shinobi, Altered Beast  and the lack of the old Arty SEGA games and risky games like Panzer, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5 REZ that SEGA used to make each year

Its more than just Yakuza 5 and PSO 2 not coming to the West just yet

[ROJM]

MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them

Unless someone can make a great update and do it different but similar much like how Mario and Sonic has been able to last this long. Not impossible, just needs fresh ideas.

With out SEGA being inthe console business , SEGA would have been a very profitable company and one with no debts, since I think its Arcade side has only ever posted a loss in 1998. 

Again for the final time the arcade was NOT i repeat NOT enough to save the company in the end. You know it as well as anyone else around here. Trying to divert the argument into hypotheticals does not detract the point on what actually happened. You are wrong and i am correct. So be quiet if you can't admit it.

Capcom made money in 2010

IT made 22 million.
 

It made money this year

It made a loss this year A big one.

 

Capcom never posted a loss this generation . Though they posted a loss in 2003/4 I think

Think again...

Barring 2010, when it made a profit of $22 million, that makes fiscal 2013 Capcom's least profitable year since 2005.

2005 too?  Thought they always posted a profit? LOL!

it is off to a poor start in Japan, and its sales in the UK suggest that it will be among the calendar year's most notable failures. Between them, Capcom's three biggest console releases for the rest of this fiscal year are not expected to sell more than an under-performing Resident Evil 6 managed in six months.

In trouble in the second and third biggest game markets. Oh my.

Capcom aren't in trouble and people on the web have gone off SEGA for a number of reasons like the way Sonic was run into the ground, Monkey Ball run into the ground  poor sequels to the likes of Nights,Golden Axe, Shinobi, Altered Beast  and the lack of the old Arty SEGA games and risky games like Panzer, Jet Set Radio, Space Channel 5 REZ that SEGA used to make each year

As i said that's just a number of small core Sega fans who stuck with the company. They wouldn't stop buying Sega games and Sega knows it. Most of the games you mentioned rely on people outside of sega. The difference is capcom's userbase of core supporters are still there and if they leave which seems to be happening then Capcom would be in trouble. Hench this...

"If the DLC we are providing to users is deemed uninteresting from the start, there will be no ongoing business to pursue"

Haruhiro Tsujimoto, COO, Capcom

So across the board Capcom IS in trouble. Despite what you claim.

[Aki-at]

I thought it would be relevant for the topic at hand but here are all the inhouse projects SEGA Japan has releasing over the next few months. I've left out titles such as Samurai & Dragon and Phantasy Star Online 2: Episode 2 as I am unaware if there is any significant updates added to them and decided not to include outsourced projects that seem to have inhouse talent attached (For example Phantasy Star Nova has a designer for Valkyria Chronicles working on it)

Sakatsuku 8 (Vita / PS3) (October release)
J-League: Let's Make a... 8 Euro Club+ (PSP) (October release)
Sonic: Lost World (Wii U) (October release)
Mario & Sonic at the Sochi Winter Games (WiiU) (November release)
Project Mirai 2 (3DS) (November release)
Hero Bank (3DS) (December release)
Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin (PS3 / PS4) (February release)
Song Builder 575 for (Vita) (Spring release)
Project Diva F 2 for (Vita) (Spring release 2014)
Puyo Puyo Tetris for (3DS, WiiU, Vita, PS3) (Sometime 2014)
Dengeki Bunko Fight Climax (Sometime 2014)

And to expand on the talent attached, I've added their Mobygames profile so people can have a further look at their history in SEGA and the industry in general;

Phantasy Star Online 2: Episode 2
Series Producer: Satoshi Sakai
Series Director: Yuya Kimura
Producer Vita Ver: Yu Suganuma

Phantasy Star Nova
Producer SEGA: Yasuyuki Tsuzuki
Producer tri-Ace: Hiroyuki Tamura
Director: Kohei Yamashita
Music Director: Moto Sakuraba (Independent third party)

Ryu Ga Gotoku Ishin
Producer: Toshihiro Nagoshi
Producer:  Masayoshi Yokoyama

Sakatsuku 8
Producer: Mitsuhiro Shimano
Director: Nobuhiro Suzuk

Puyo Puyo Tetris:
Producer: Mizuki Hosoyamada
Other names attached but not linked with development: Kaoru Sakura and Kanako Kondo

Song Builder 575
Assistant Producer: Daisuke Shimizu

Hero Bank
Producer: Yoichi Shimosato
Director: Yuko Yoshida
(Considering the talent behind this worked on Shining Force and Valkyria, game being developed by SEGA's RPG team seems likely)

Samurai & Dragons
Producer: Riichiro Yamada
Art Director: Chigaku Fukuhara
(Considering the talent and the original producer was Masayoshi Kikuchi, very much seems like a side game by Ryu Ga Gotoku Studio)

Sonic: Lost World
Producer: Takashi Iizuka
Sound Director: Tomoya Ohtani

Hatsune Miku Project Diva F 2
Producer: Seiji Hayashi

2)Mainly because Sega west refuses to localise PS02 on time and YAKUZA 5.

Yeap, they have significant factors on how people perceive SEGA. Phantasy Star has always done relatively well in the West and a lot of die hard fans are down on SEGA for not bringing on PSO2. Yakuza is super niche title but its got a cult following, the type of people you find on message boards, infact if these two titles were brought over this year (Plus perhaps Valkyria Chronicles 3) people would be a lot more receptive about SEGA purchasing Atlus.

You only have to go back and see the positive reaction everyone had of SEGA purchasing Relic, they were all championing for it, it's only the mis-steps in 2013 that has caused this dramatic deterioration of SEGA's image. Guaranteed if tomorrow Yakuza 5, Ishin, Phantasy Star Nova, Online 2 and Puyo Puyo Tetris all had solid release dates, everyone would be clamoring about how great and varied SEGA are these days.

[Team Andromeda]

Unless someone can make a great update and do it different but similar much like how Mario and Sonic has been able to last this long. Not impossible, just needs fresh ideas

Yes and what also helped Sonic and Mario is they were still selling good in the 32,64 bit days where as Mega Man didn't really sell great on the Saturn or PS

Again for the final time the arcade was NOT i repeat NOT enough to save the company in the end

Look for the last time . SEGA with out its consumer side would never have been in debt  that is all I'm saying.

IT made 22 million

A profit not a loss, like you made out .

Thought they always posted a profit

You do know what 'least profitable' means ? It means you make a profit , just not a good one compared to other years . 

In trouble in the second and third biggest game markets

You do make me laugh sometimes . Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to  2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.

The difference is capcom's userbase of core supporters are still there and if they leave which seems to be happening then Capcom would be in trouble.

Other than Sonic what IP has SEGA Japan got that sells a million copies . Capcom has the likes of DMC, Dead Rising, RE, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma . That's the issue and trouble SEGA has to try and sort out. You might diss RE 6 but the simple fact is that title alone has sold better than nearly all the Yakuza games  combined

Most of the games you mentioned rely on people outside of sega.

Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast  and they all left a bitter taste with fans.

SEGA got Sonic and PSO back on forum and the Yakuza Team are really good . But SEGA Japan still needs to up its game and also make a IP that will get the press and fans talking for all the right reasons

 

 

[Nameless 24]

MegaMan is an outdated IP and one that was seeing its sales and popularity decline on the Saturn and PS. Capcom did give the fans a new Mega Man game done in the old style and Capcom is even giving us a new Strider game , but the fans will bitch about that no doubt. I love SEGA to make a new Astal, a new Alex Kid but I'm not about to give SEGA a hard time for not wanting to go near IP where their best days are long behind them.

I do agree that Mega Man is an outdated IP, but the fans don't seem to think that it is (they consider Mega Man to be their "Sonic" in terms of an everlasting brand).

To be fair, they do have some bitching to do considering how Breath of Fire 6 is on tablets and how they've handled their newer IPs such as Dragon's Dogma and Asura's Wrath.

I think they also didn't advertise Darkstalkers on PSN enough either.

Capcom's fault of course for doing that, but it doesn't help how they're only catering to the Street Fighter and Monster hunter crowd and ignoring every single one of their other fanbases. Mega Man's fanbase is still pretty large despite it declining...the same can be said for even the Sonic fanbase when he had a tough few years.

[ROJM]

Yes and what also helped Sonic and Mario is they were still selling good in the 32,64 bit days where as Mega Man didn't really sell great on the Saturn or PS

Because nothing fresh has been done with it that's why.

Look for the last time . SEGA with out its consumer side would never have been in debt  that is all I'm saying.

No you look for the FINAL time. That was never part of the argument. You decided to bring it up because you lost it. It doesn't matter about the consumer divison on whether it existed or not. That's not what happened. You said the arcades was enough to save Sega i said it isn't and its not enough now. History is on my side with that one. So stop spinning your nonsense and backtracking on what you said. DONE!

A profit not a loss, like you made out .

You do know what 'least profitable' means ? It means you make a profit , just not a good one compared to other years .

And you make a loss which is what capcom has done. Get it?

You do make me laugh sometimes .

And everyone is laughing at you.

Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to  2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.

ROME 2 made more money than LP3 try again kid.
Game biz? LOL listen kid i've been quoting from numerous gameindustry places and they all say he same thing. You have yet to actually prove me wrong on ALL counts. So until you do this debate is very over with. You really are a joke.

Other than Sonic what IP has SEGA Japan got that sells a million copies . Capcom has the likes of DMC, Dead Rising, RE, Monster Hunter, Dragon's Dogma . That's the issue and trouble SEGA has to try and sort out. You might diss RE 6 but the simple fact is that title alone has sold better than nearly all the Yakuza games  combined

Yet Sega made the profit and not Capcom. Deal with it. I know its hard to but get over it that sega is succesful for once and not capcom.
.

Well like Capcom that was mistake to outsource too many IP , but the poor Sonic games were made In-House, most of the MoneyBall games were made In-House , Nightshade was made In-House, So was NiGHTS 2, so was Project Altered Beast  and they all left a bitter taste with fans.

KUNOCHI wasn't bad people complained because it wasn't SHINOBI 2. So get that straight. And most of that stuff was sorted out so its another moot point you're making.

SEGA got Sonic and PSO back on forum and the Yakuza Team are really good . But SEGA Japan still needs to up its game and also make a IP that will get the press and fans talking for all the right reasons

And look where they are. Following their own model and not Capcom's which you wanted them to do. If we all listen to you there wouldn't BE a Sega right now.

 

 

[ROJM]

Yeap, they have significant factors on how people perceive SEGA. Phantasy Star has always done relatively well in the West and a lot of die hard fans are down on SEGA for not bringing on PSO2. Yakuza is super niche title but its got a cult following, the type of people you find on message boards, infact if these two titles were brought over this year (Plus perhaps Valkyria Chronicles 3) people would be a lot more receptive about SEGA purchasing Atlus.

You only have to go back and see the positive reaction everyone had of SEGA purchasing Relic, they were all championing for it, it's only the mis-steps in 2013 that has caused this dramatic deterioration of SEGA's image. Guaranteed if tomorrow Yakuza 5, Ishin, Phantasy Star Nova, Online 2 and Puyo Puyo Tetris all had solid release dates, everyone would be clamoring about how great and varied SEGA are these days.

I'm pretty sure that's what will happen with Atlus USA. They'll be given some of the Sega niche titles to localise and most likely they and Atlus will be given more money to expand their operations to handle games of that size, which is what happened with both Sports Interactive and Creative Assembly after the acquisition from Sega was made final.

[Aki-at]

Monster Hunter 4 alone has sold close to  2 million copies in a single week and GameBiz was on about a 'single game' not performing well in the UK and Japan and sure Lost Planet 3 looks a bit of dud but its not like Rome 2 set the UK charts alight only entering in at 21 if you want to play the charts game on one game.

What? Rome II entered the charts as the top selling individual software on the week of its release and second best selling combined formats chart; it fell to tenth the following week and NOW sits at 21st, not when it launched. This was after selling 105,000 units on its first week of sales in the United Kingdom and doing triple the sales of the original and one of the biggest launches this year. Sales across Europe and America would probably ensure the title is an easy million seller.

Trying to dress up Rome II as some kind of failure is just not sticking to the facts, it's going to end up being one of, it not, the most successful Total War title at the rate it's selling.

[Aki-at]

I'm pretty sure that's what will happen with Atlus USA. They'll be given some of the Sega niche titles to localise and most likely they and Atlus will be given more money to expand their operations to handle games of that size, which is what happened with both Sports Interactive and Creative Assembly after the acquisition from Sega was made final.

I'd welcome and even push for that myself, Atlus has a ability to turn otherwise niche pieces of software into a sustainable business model by turning them into moderately successful 100,000 - 200,000 sellers in the United States (With similar figures in Europe) and we know SEGA Japan has no issue with moderate sellers, as shown by their continued support of titles like 7th Dragon.