Now that Sega is splashing the cash around...

[ROJM]

I am  . Every with the groundwork done it still too SEGA and AM#2 years to make the DC games and cost SEGA millions and that's just bringing the game up from Saturn in DC 3D . The Jump between the 360 and PS3 to that of the DC is massive , never mind the XBox 1 or PS4 .

Years? The DC came out in 98 SHENMUE appeared in 2000. So were talking about a two year jump at the least from Saturn to DC. Give it up TA.

So it would need everything to be totally redone and that would take massive amounts of manpower and money .

Not really. Not with the experience Sega has under its belt.

So why does each GT game takes years to come out , why does the time to it takes to render each car and track go up with each instalment on each new machine, when it a lot of cases the cars and tracks are the same.

Your argument would make sense if you comopared it to another Sega team and not someone who isn't and cant even come close to the development and programming wizardy Sega has.

Shenmue DC assets in terms of graphics and sound are just useless  on the 360 and PS3, never mind the PS4 or XBox 1

Refer to my second point.

And Blood Will Tell, Astro boy sold like shit in the USA and each Yakuza game was a flop from your American freinds on the PS2. In fact I think JSRF sold better than Yakuza in the USA

But the Xbox was the one with the bigger flops across ALL markets. You can keep bringing certain titles on the other systems but the reality is most of the Sega gameson the other platforms made money. DORORO made money. YAKUZA made money. They didn't make money here in the west. Which is why SOA is reluctant to localise YAKUZA 5. Same pattern really. Sega experienced flop after flop on the xbox. So they didn't bother with making exclusive Xbox titles anymore and found another way to appeal to the xbox fanbase by using western talent to create 360 content for them.

MS deal was done in 2001 when Peter Moore was still CEO of SEGA America , Shenmue Online years ago too.  Nothing that comes from SEGA shows they have any real interest in making Shenmue 3 for this or next gen .

And we can keep on spining. I was talking about how they made the jump to better systems. Behind the scenes Sega has tried to drum up intrest in the IP even doing so during the current gen. So that is hardly them not being intrested in SHENMUE.
 

[nuckles87]

First, Shenmue actually came out in 1999. You would think this would hurt TA's point, but it wouldn't because you read it incorrectly.  He said "DC games". As in both Shenmue and Shenmue 2. And Shenmue 2 wasn't released until 2001. So the plural of "years" when referring to both games is most definitely appropriate.

Speaking of which, do we even know when production on the Dreamcast games started?

I also don't understand how having "experience" can somehow make it possible to utilize assets from a Dreamcast game on Xbox One and PS4 without said game looking like shit by the standards of those platforms.

And since I'm posting in this conversation, I have a request of both of you: could you place post sources that state the sales numbers of the SEGA games your referring to (Jet Set, Yakuza, Blood Will Tell, Astro Boy, etc) as well as a source that states that any of these games (aside form Yakuza, obviously) made or lost money. I'm trying to gather up sources for use in future articles, so it would be appreciated.

[Team Andromeda]

Years? The DC came out in 98 SHENMUE appeared in 2000. So were talking about a two year jump at the least from Saturn to DC. Give it up TA

Yes Years ..... To get the DC version of Shenmue up to date to where the Team got with the Saturn version took 2 games and until  2001 - that is years since the Saturn version would have been stopped in 1997/8. That's even with all the story, all the characters and having seen the Saturn footage, most of the gameplay motion capture and everything already done .

If it was so easy, Shenmue 2 would have come out mere months after the 1st game for starters, not some 20 months later .

Not really. Not with the experience Sega has under its belt

Each new Yakuza game takes a massive team and Budget and there's now plenty of teams well used to making open worlds and realistic environments be that Rockstar North with GTA or Ubisoft and Assassin's creed and in all those cases it takes massive teams and loads of money to make those worlds .

Sega team and not someone who isn't and cant even come close to the development and programming wizardy Sega has.

Ubisoft are just as capable of bashing out yearly sequels to their Assassin's creed games as SEGA is with Yakuza . It still takes Ubi massive teams and loads of money.

Refer to my second point

The same wizards that took some 4 to 5 years to get DC Shenmue to that, of where they got with Saturn Shenmue ? . Everything needed to be redone and with the massive gulf in the rendering of the 360 to that of DC, it would be even more of a task to get the job done , never mind if Shenmue 3 was to come to the PS4 or XBox 1 .

You can keep bringing certain titles on the other systems but the reality is most of the Sega gameson the other platforms made money. DORORO made money. YAKUZA made money. They didn't make money here in the west.

I really doubt Blood with Tell made any money at all given it was in development for 4 years lots of money spend and all it got was 200,000 + plus in sales . JSRF I doubt any money was lost really on its development given we all know Smilebit were given free stuff by MS and SEGA singed a deal with MS for software, plus the game was developed by a small team and done in a year . HOTD 3 I doubt SEGA lost any money there it sold well enough and was a decent seller in the Arcade . I would imagine that the likes of SEGA GT, GV, Orta are where SEGA lost money on development myself.

Speaking of which, do we even know when production on the Dreamcast games started

Well I would say it would be sometime in 1997 given in one of his Interviews Yu Suzuki confirmed that's when he 1st started working on the DC tech. Saturn Shenmue started life out in 1994 and if we listen to Yu Suzuki coding the Saturn was just 8 months of work (that doesn't include research i bet though)

could you place post sources that state the sales numbers of the SEGA games your referring to (Jet Set, Yakuza, Blood Will Tell, Astro Boy, etc) as well as a source that states that any of these games (aside form Yakuza, obviously) made or lost money. I'm trying to gather up sources for use in future articles, so it would be appreciated.

Japanese sales you just go to sites like www.the-magicbox.com. America sales it used to be easy to in the old days , you could just go to neogaf.com and find the full America charts when NPD used to published the numbers each games sold in the top 20 (something they stopped years ago sadly ). Sadly you just got to guess if a game made a profit or not 












 

[Nathan]

To my knowledge, there is no solid date as to when Shenmue actually started...in 1994, Suzuki started to envision the Shenmue story while researching Virtua Fighter in China. I would imagine Shenmue didn't start until a little bit into the Saturn's life, so maybe late 1995 or 1996? Saturn in the US started to decline in late 1997 or so, which would make sense if they started to warp things up and start on the Dreamcast version.

We do have a slight advantage with the fact that Saturn hardware was notoriously difficult to work with...so the two years that it took to switch over to the DC (and I don't know much if anything about development) could be partly attributed to the difficulty of the Saturn.

And honestly, if Shenmue III were a launch title for the Xbox One or PS4, I don't think even Shenmue I's graphics would be considered terrible. Yes, they are dated, by they were spectacular for their time, and held up well. I don't see what all of the fuss is about with Shenmue II on Xbox, because people thought "it clearly looked like a Dreamcast port". The no name character models yes, but everything else? The Shenmue series had fantastic graphics, and probably even stood up fairly well with some current generation games. So, I don't think it'd be such a HUGE process to update the game, at least not compared to something like modernizing Skies Of Arcadia or Sonic Adventure or the likes (while both looked good, just not Shenmue quality obviously).

[Team Andromeda]

To my knowledge, there is no solid date as to when Shenmue actually started.

We do with a simple bit of maths ....

GameSpy: Speaking of time and money spent in development, and since you voiced an interest in FPS games, what do you think about the ongoing Duke Nukem Forever saga?
Mr. Osaki: Oh? What's the latest on that?
GameSpy: Well, it's been seven years since Take-Two announced it, and it's still not out yet. What are your thoughts on that?
Mr. Osaki: SEVEN YEARS!? [*turns to the PR person besides him*] You know, Shenmue only took us FIVE.

So seeing as Shenmue came out in 1999, it started life in 1994 .

And honestly, if Shenmue III were a launch title for the Xbox One or PS4, I don't think even Shenmue I's graphics would be considered terrible.

Yes it would . its ways behind almost any 360, PS3 game around

So, I don't think it'd be such a HUGE process to update the game, at least not compared to something like modernizing Skies Of Arcadia or Sonic Adventure or the likes

It will and for one import reason , Skies and Sonic are fantasy , Shenmue is based on a real world and that is far harder to model and make realistic

[nuckles87]

Shenmue 1 graphics would only work as a cheap arcade title on modern consoles, and even then I'm sure reviewers would give them really low marks.

[Nathan]

Yes, 1994 was been known for a while, just not a certain date.

As for the graphics, yes they are obviously dated. Just saying they stack up very well compared to other games of that era, and even a lot from the generation after. Maybe they wouldn't be up to par, but maybe my definition of terrible and is a lot different than what you guys are thinking. I'm thinking low quality Wii game terrible.

And it can't be that hard to do. I know nothing about development, but there are folks over at Shenmue Dojo making rendering scenes from Shenmue in beautiful HD, and they pop new screens out very often.

[3raser]

I have said it before many times. I do not mind saying it again. Shenmue III would cost just about as much as any other game. It would make a lot more than a bad sonic game. It would be easy to make, since the script has already been written. The list goes on about what I have already stated in a different Shenmue III thread. There is no reason Sega should avoid this game. Why would anyone not want to play this game?

[Team Andromeda]

It would be easy to make, since the script has already been written

Not that easy, if it was Shenmue 3 would have been done long ago . You got to fill up that game with gameplay and things to do to keep the player interested and want to play the game and that's a lot different than just having the script and story done...

Shenmue III would cost just about as much as any other game.

It wouldn't, but then it wouldn't cost much more than any AAA RPG made today

As for the graphics, yes they are obviously dated. Just saying they stack up very well compared to other games of that era, and even a lot from the generation afte

And that's becasue Yu Suzuki demanded utter perfection and had a massive team and budget. If Shenmue III isn't made to to same standards people will slag SEGA off for doing Shenmue 3 on the cheap . Also while Shenmue 2 looks good, it pales to almost all games made today , even my mobile can handle better GFX

[Nathan]

Yes, I realize this. And I agree. It needs to be made up to standard.

[Nameless 24]

Wouldn't outsourcing it to Rockstar North be a good idea?

They know how to make a Sanboxed game as we know with the GTA series, all they have to do is strip it to form a game where you interact with the people (I mean a population of people) and leave in the aspects of what made Shenmue interesting. Stripping out the cars, people, guns and the like would mean that Rockstar wouldn't need to spend as much on it as the GTA games.

If GTA5 cost £170 million, stripping it to it's more basic form AND making it so that the characters and people models are larger to give Shenmue that personal experience surely wouldn't cost SEGA any more than £20/30 million, although I understand if people don't agree with my idea, it's just something I thought would be a good idea.

[Nathan]

My opinion: Suzuki and his dream team only should ever touch Shenmue.

[Centrale]

The models would have to be updated, but actually a lot of the textures already exist in very high resolution, as has been seen with hacks and emulation. As for the overall look, all textures are hand painted, as opposed to photo textures as seen with games like GTA and Yakuza. Unfortunately the mainstream gamers tend to think only realistic, photo-based art direction = "good" graphics. However, I think we're getting to a time in gaming when there is more diversity of art direction, and the painted look of Shenmue could still be accepted if they maintain that aesthetic.

[Trippled]

My opinion: Suzuki and his dream team only should ever touch Shenmue.

That dream team was people who made console ports of AM2's Arcade games, it does not exist to the extent it did back then.

[Team Andromeda]

The models would have to be updated, but actually a lot of the textures already exist in very high resolution, as has been seen with hacks and emulation.

That's different and just an image being upscaled and even then Shenmue its miles off most Modern 360 and PS3 games , To be a real sequel to Shenmue, to be and feel like a real Shenmue game Shenmue 3 would need to have some of the best gfx and the 1 of the best games engines seen to date. Anything less would lead to SEGA being held out to dry for doing it on the cheap and who it's not a worthy sequel.

Unfortunately the mainstream gamers tend to think only realistic, photo-based art direction = "good" graphics.

Shenmue is all about realism it's what makes the game feel so speical, even  today . Hell in a interview with retrogamer one of the programeres said how they had to study and research fish and pond life, even though the fish only appear in the intro for a couple of secounds .