I just finished reading "Console Wars" and now I think I hate Sega of Japan

[ROJM]

Time to get the facts straight RegalSin


Wrong . Scot Bayless and Joe Miller (the 2 key people) both confirmed in interviews and on the record. 32X was no forced on SEGA America at all , But SEGA America baby and they're the one who loved the idea and pushed on with it .   
Kalinske got into a relationship with Sony and we could have had the SEGA Playstation


And god Job SEGA Japan turned it down . Not only did the Hardware ships years latter than what SCI promised - it was more costly and more difficult to develop for that the Saturn and its display was utter shit too - with washed out burly graphics and rubbish colours and no support for sprites and total number of polygons hardly any more than what the PS could handle .  SEGA were right to stay clear, they did screw up with the Lynx chipset tho



Tom screwed up with the 32X and the rushed out lauch of the Saturn was his response to lame 32X sales and the PS hype getting massive .

No TA SOJ was pushing ther machine...you wouldn't even accept it was an SOJ until me and Jonboy proved you wrong...and now you are trying to push this article. The book says it from sources that was part of the deal from the get go. So you can keep going on that Kalinske screwed things up but it was SOJ and SOJ alone that fucked things up for Sega, nobody else.

[Team Andromeda]

No TA SOJ was pushing ther machine...you wouldn't even accept it was an SOJ until me and Jonboy proved you wrong.

You have never proved me wrong at all with the 32X or the Saturn . 32X was never forced on SEGA America at all .

The book says it from sources that was part of the deal from the get go

This source is ? . Joe Miller and Scot Bayless were the key technical people at SEGA America at the time and they've told the real truth behind the 32X

So you can keep going on that Kalinske screwed things up but it was SOJ and SOJ alone that fucked things up for Sega, nobody else.

He did because he believed so much in the mass market price  of the 32X and didn't focus enough on the Saturn and btw the rushed launched was also Tom's idea .

[ROJM]

You have never proved me wrong at all with the 32X or the Saturn . 32X was never
forced on SEGA America at all .

You WERE proven wrong numourous times on this topic. I wasn't alone in it and Jonboy was also there but that's old ground.  Keep spinning your lies...everyone knows you're a liar now anyway.

This source is ? . Joe Miller and Scot Bayless were the key technical people at
SEGA America at the time and they've told the real truth behind the 32X

As opposed to a book that has it in specific detail now? Don't make me laugh.

He did because he believed so much in the mass market price  of the 32X and
didn't focus enough on the Saturn and btw the rushed launched was also Tom's
idea .

Bollocks. If you think Tom K had so much autonomy in a subsidary like SOA than you gotta be on drugs. Anything he had to do had to get approval from SOJ. That's the bottom line. Keep blaming SOA and Tom K in your self deluded world on why the Saturn failed. It was SOJ's fault.

Why?

SOJ was the ones who came up with the concept of the 32x incliuding the working model. Just like all the other models they flooded the market place and confusing the consumer.

SOJ were the ones who blocked any of the big selling Genesis titles getting a Saturn update..meaning anyone who wanted to buy a particular game couldn't and saw no point getting the system.

SOJ were the ones who FAILED to get their biggest identifiable character at that time and any time a game at launch or follow up with a proper sequel.

SOJ were the ones who messed up and appointed an idiot like Stolar who ran Sega further into the ground.
SOJ were the ones who failed to listen to Tom K's suggestions about what was coming into the marketplace and Sega should make alliances with them...
 
Now who was proven right? Tom or SOJ...here's a hint...Nintendo and Sony are still around making consoles..


 

[Team Andromeda]

You WERE proven wrong numourous times on this topic. I wasn't alone in it and Jonboy was also there but that's old ground.

You have never proved me wrong at all with the 32X or Saturn  Lets get those facts straight

As opposed to a book that has it in specific detail now?

A book mate , love to know it's sources. Lets face it The Technical director of SEGA America  Scott Bayless and the senior vice president of technology Joe Milller at SEGA America in the mid 90's would know better than anyone else what really happened .

If you think Tom K had so much autonomy in a subsidary like SOA than you gotta be on drugs.

So Tom couldn't ace on his own . Then all the success of the MD is done to SOJ and nothing to down with Tom. It doesn't work like that .

SOJ was the ones who came up with the concept of the 32x incliuding the working model

No SEGA Japan came up with the idea of a super Mega Drive to counter the 3DO and Jaguar and then a Saturn with out the main Ram and CD drive of the Saturn.

SOJ were the ones who blocked any of the big selling Genesis titles getting a Saturn update

One at that was Eternal Champions which its self was hardly a system seller (not that I agreed with the move to cancel the game ) 

SOJ were the ones who FAILED to get their biggest identifiable character at that time and any time a game at launch or follow up with a proper sequel.

Yes that was a mistake , Sadly Saturn Sonic turned out to be one of the best selling DC titles and one of the best Sonic games ever made with Sonic Adv

SOJ were the ones who messed up and appointed an idiot like Stolar who ran Sega further into the ground

Stolar did a fine job with the DC launch . Saldy he was left a shit hand but Tom with the Saturn, though his moves to drop the Saturn and piss off WD were massive mistakes granted

SOJ were the ones who failed to listen to Tom K's suggestions about what was coming into the marketplace

Utter rubbish . SONY Japan only had one computer division at the time and they were tied to Nintendo.

Now who was proven right? Tom or SOJ...here's a hint...Nintendo and Sony are still around making consoles

The great Tom still working in the games industry ? And its thanks to Nintendo that SONY entered the market themselves. 


























 
 

[ROJM]

A book mate , love to know it's sources. Lets face it The Technical director of SEGA America  Scott Bayless and the senior vice president of technology Joe Milller at SEGA America in the mid 90's would know better than anyone else what really happened .

Yes they did since I told you originally that he said it originated from japan..which you shot down at the time..but here's a reminder...

So we were looking for a way to leverage the best of what we had done and add that capability to something new, and the 32X evolved out of that. It certainly wasn’t a revolt, and it wasn’t a matter of us or me standing up and saying “no, that’s a bad idea.” I don’t think I ever said that… [Laughs]… I don’t believe I ever said to anyone from SOJ who came over with the original idea that it was bad idea because that wasn’t the kind of relationship we had. I had more respect for all of them than that. But, by the end of CES, we collectively came up with something we thought would work better. They thought it was pretty cool and said “this is great. Why don’t you guys help us run with it? Help us figure out how to pull this off.”

So try again. And he said that before that article you keep reciting. So unless you are spinning no one involved in the 32x project would ever say that they came up with the concept...it all originated from japan...Since the sources of the book is from the PEOPLE who were involved during the time it shoots your little debate in flames..

So Tom couldn't ace on his own . Then all the success of the MD is done to SOJ and nothing to down with Tom. It doesn't work like that .

No TA. SOJ couldn't make any of their systems successful in japan. Michael Katz was the one who initially got the ball rolling and Tom K exploded it into the stratosphere. Before that Sega europe or Virgin mastertronic at the time was flying the sega flag and guaranteeing people brought the MS in droves. There's no coincidence that the management in the west to the management in japan were MORE successful in selling the machine to the public.

No SEGA Japan came up with the idea of a super Mega Drive to counter the 3DO and Jaguar and then a Saturn with out the main Ram and CD drive of the Saturn.

You don't say...Still orginated with Japan that's the point. So its hardly SOA being or acting on their own. And since the directive comes from SOJ its obvious they wanted it made. So you can blame the 32x on japan when they knew they had a follow up system on the way.

One at that was Eternal Champions which its self was hardly a system seller (not that I agreed with the move to cancel the game ) 

That's why they packed it in the box..it sold enough for them to do that in the first place.

Yes that was a mistake , Sadly Saturn Sonic turned out to be one of the best selling DC titles and one of the best Sonic games ever made with Sonic Adv

He admits it...

Stolar did a fine job with the DC launch . Sadly he was left a shit hand but Tom with the Saturn, though his moves to drop the Saturn and piss off WD were massive mistakes granted

It was down to SOJ blocking games that was the real death knell. No one was going to buy a system like the Saturn to get a bunch of titles they weren't familiar with. Sega didn't ensure that the base they had garned with the MD/Genesis came with them for the Saturn. No familiar titles nothing to get the genral audience to part their cash for the machine. Those game should have defiantly helped in doing that. Then everything else would have fallen into place.

Utter rubbish . SONY Japan only had one computer division at the time and they were tied to Nintendo.

Really....

Sony worked closely with SEGA’s engineers in North America, coming up with some specifications for an optical-based hardware system. And this resulted in a trip to Sony’s headquarters in Tokyo, where PlayStation creator Ken Kutaragi had a proposal for Kalinske. “He said that [the hypothetical system] was great, and as we all lose money on hardware, let's jointly market a single system – the SEGA/Sony hardware system – and whatever loss that we make, we split that loss,” he explained

So try again my good man..

The great Tom still working in the games industry ? And its thanks to Nintendo that SONY entered the market themselves. 

He retired but he was still involved in the games industry with Leapfrog which he's still semi active with. Without the great Tom there would certainly be no games industry as we know it today. And Neither is Nakayama or half those high ups who were in charge of Sega at the time actively involved in the games industry.

[Team Andromeda]

Yes they did since I told you originally that he said it originated from japan

Don't lie mate, it doesn't  become you . The idea of the counter for the 3DO and Jaguar came from Japan and the idea of having a Saturn Minus the cart also came from Japan . But the call to press ahead with the 32X came from SOA/SOA they designed the unit and its GPU

SOJ couldn't make any of their systems successful in japan.

They did ok with the Sega Saturn .

Michael Katz was the one who initially [/size]got the ball rolling and Tom K exploded it into the stratosphere[/color]

Helped no end by Madden and Sonic . The same man also so fit to totally screw up the Saturn and 32X launches .


[/size] [/color][/size]

And since the directive comes from SOJ its obvious they wanted it made

[/size]SOA/SOE believed in it so much and they thought they were on to a winner .

That's why they packed it in the box

Get a grip . Lots of games on put on the back of consoles boxes . I mean Myst and Ghen War, Congo  were on the back of the box too - Now please don't make out those are Saturn sellers

It was down to SOJ blocking games that was the real death knell

Its up to SEGA America to pick and decide what games they pay SOJ for to come over here .

No familiar titles nothing to get the genral audience to part their cash for the machine

Rubbish. It never hurt the Mega Drive , It never hurt the PS or the XBox . Those systems all  had pretty much new IP .

So try again my good man

Too easy . Here's more spin from Tom

[/size]Kalinske remembers it as a situation where Sega was basically backed into a corner: " We all knew PlayStation was coming so we wanted to pre-empt them. [/color][/size]Japan basically ordered us to be on shelf in the Fall, [so] I thought up the surprise launch as a way of generating excitement and PR.[/color][/size] However, the downside was not enough software was ready, which was a significant problem, and the surprise benefited some retailers but annoyed others who were either not included or didn't receive a large enough initial allocation of hardware. On top of that, the price was really too high. If we'd had a larger number of units to launch correctly with all retailers, and if we'd had a few more software titles, I think the result would have been significantly better. On the other hand if we'd waited until PlayStation was in the market I think the results would have been even worse." [/color]

[ROJM]

Don't lie mate, it doesn't  become you . The idea of the counter for the 3DO and Jaguar came from Japan and the idea of having a Saturn Minus the cart also came from Japan . But the call to press ahead with the 32X came from SOA/SOA they designed the unit and its GPU

I'm not lying. I posted that same quote and all i heard from you is system 16 and other such crap accusations. Then a year later you try to come back with the same guy quoting something you have YET to even show. So no TA i said that guy and that guy alone why?
Because Bayless was more involved with the Sega CD side of things not the 32X. Miller was more or less primarily involved with the 32x. But hey i just have to dig up the original posts(somewhere on the web) where i first talked about it. And where you slammed it...

They did ok with the Sega Saturn .

No they didn't..

Helped no end by Madden and Sonic . The same man also so fit to totally screw up the Saturn and 32X launches .

What SOJ forcing him to launch the product when no titles were ready..yes its all Tom's fault...Just like it was his fault that SOJ wanted him to do the 32x in the first place which by your admission you backed up..

SOA/SOE believed in it so much and they thought they were on to a winner .

Get a grip . Lots of games on put on the back of consoles boxes . I mean Myst and Ghen War, Congo  were on the back of the box too - Now please don't make out those are Saturn sellers





Its up to SEGA America to pick and decide what games they pay SOJ for to come over here .

By then SOJ was running the show, so don't make me laugh.



Rubbish. It never hurt the Mega Drive , It never hurt the PS or the XBox . Those systems all  had pretty much new IP .

It does hurt a system in the long run if those games don't APPEAR! You think Nintendo can go out not releasing any of their key titles on their systems? Using the PSX and XBOX which had NO previous ips to begin with to an estabilshed company like Sega at the time  is utterly ridiculous....





Too easy . Here's more spin from Tom

Spin?..he's been more consistent than you. But hey let's not believe the guy who led Sega to become a powerhouse in america..i mean why should we? What good has he ever done for the games industry let alone Sega...continue living in your fantasy world where SOJ made the saturn more succesful than the Master system in europe and the genesis in america...

If you can't be bothered to show whatever you are quoting and talking about in its proper size than i'm not going to address it. Its just another silly juvenile tactic from you anyway. Despite it all it won't change the truth that you can't face...

[Team Andromeda]

I'm not lying. I posted that same quote and all i heard from you is system 16 and other such crap accusations. Then a year later you try to come back with the same guy quoting something you have

You are and unless you can back up what you say . I want you to retract the lies .

No they didn't

No the Saturn only outsold the PS for the 1st 2 years in Japan and for most of its life had a bigger market share than the N64 in Japan .

What SOJ forcing him to launch the product when no titles were read

He was for the 32X and he called that totally wrong and the Saturn well he messed that up too

f you can't be bothered to show whatever you are quoting and talking

It's from the 1up.com special the pleasure and pain Sega speical and where the likes of Tom Kalinske were interviwed and in that in her's what Tom Kalinske had to say

" We all knew PlayStation was coming so we wanted to pre-empt them.]Japan basically ordered us to be on shelf in the Fall, [so] I thought up the surprise launch as a way of generating excitement and PR.However, the downside was not enough software was ready, which was a significant problem, and the surprise benefited some retailers but annoyed others who were either not included or didn't receive a large enough initial allocation of hardware. On top of that, the price was really too high. If we'd had a larger number of units to launch correctly with all retailers, and if we'd had a few more software titles, I think the result would have been significantly better. On the other hand if we'd waited until PlayStation was in the market I think the results would have been even worse "

So yet again you wrong and all over the shop for one's consoles history

[ROJM]

You are and unless you can back up what you say . I want you to retract the lies .

No TA i'm not the proven liar around here..The people who saw it could attest to it. Its up to you to prove me wrong. Now you come back here spinning yet again about an ARTICLE that you never backed up before hand. I proved at the time i originally wrote it with the same exact quote to now have. So until you can prove otherwise stop acting like you know more than me because you clearly don't...liar...

No the Saturn only outsold the PS for the 1st 2 years in Japan and for most of its life had a bigger market share than the N64 in Japan .

You don't say..considering i never mentioned how long it was in the lead for...

He was for the 32X and he called that totally wrong and the Saturn well he messed that up too

No he wasn't. Considering the book has over 200 interviews from VARIOUS people where at least a third back up what Kalinske is saying..not only are you wrong but once again all over the town...as usual..

It's from the 1up.com special the pleasure and pain Sega speical and where the likes of Tom Kalinske were interviwed and in that in her's what Tom Kalinske had to say



So yet again you wrong and all over the shop for one's consoles history

No you are. Again i believe what i know and now its backed up with a book from a variety of people backing Tom's account of things. Not from a poster who likes to put and quote things out of context..never links to any of his sources and re write history..and keeps sticking to points he has already lost when the facts are presented to him clearly in the face. As i said other people were present at the 32x article and if needed to they will back me up..why because i'm telling the truth...as usual. Unfortunately the truth is something you like to play with..

Now enough of this game..i'm not gonna bother humouring you just because you need to score "cool" points with the likes of Regalsin just because Aki and George whipped you in another topic..on points that i raised originally.

Later..don't waste your life now...

[Kori-Maru]

The saturn itself is backwards with all previous SEGA systems. That is why the Saturn has that SEGA sound.

The SEGA Saturn was never backwards compatible with the Master System and Genesis/Mega Drive including the add-ons. Unless you want to count ports of classic games.

[Team Andromeda]

No TA i'm not the proven liar around here

You are and anyone who's had the miss pleasure to deal with you , know it .

You don't say..considering i never mentioned how long it was in the lead for.

Well SEGA held the lead until the lauch of the F7 demo in Japan . But until then SEGA had been out selling the PS in Japan quite easily and with VF 2 was ever out selling the PS at ratio of 8:1 Christmas 1995  and it took until 1998 for the N64 to get some better market share than the Saturn in Japan..


So SEGA did very well with the Saturn in Japan I think you find .

Considering the book has over 200 interviews from VARIOUS people where at least a third back up what Kalinske is saying

You haven't even read the book then lol. And I think you find that SEGA America and Europe were all for and all behind the 32X .

No you are.

Hey I'm just quoting what Tom says and he's quite clear . SOJ wanted him to lauch the Saturn in the Fall , but Tom went for the Summer lauch and totally blew it .


Oh and I'll think you find he's not retired at all . Like with Yu Suzuki, Shenmue III, 32X , The Crucible, Sega Saturn, Price cut, Consoles sales and god knows what else . You are wrong and just don't know ones history of consoles .


Come back to me when you get a better brief,

[ROJM]

I keep spinning and LYING and spinning and twisting HAHAHA

Not really interested in what you got to say. Stick to your version of history..the rest of us will stick to the actual REALITY.

[RegalSin]

The SEGA Saturn was never backwards compatible with the Master System and Genesis/Mega Drive including the add-ons. Unless you want to count ports of classic games.

The cartridge slot on the top is equal to the disc. This means you could fit all previous systems over that one slot. If somebody built a converter I am sure it would be no problem running previous system games.

In fact why hasn't anybody ever just did that already. Respect for the previous systems, or just pure laziness? That would have been a great hit with the Saturn, even nowadays.

[TimmiT]

The cartridge slot on the top is equal to the disc. This means you could fit all previous systems over that one slot. If somebody built a converter I am sure it would be no problem running previous system games.

In fact why hasn't anybody ever just did that already. Respect for the previous systems, or just pure laziness? That would have been a great hit with the Saturn, even nowadays.

I don't think you know how technology works.

[Barry the Nomad]

Tim, you just stick it in your Genesis!