Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1

[MadeManG74]

Ah believe what you like! Don't buy it.

I won't. But don't you at least think I have somewhat a valid point with my Splosion Man comparison?

[Barry the Nomad]

I think Splosion Man is a longer game, however I think Sonic 4 is a much more visually varied game.

Splosion Man is essentially the same environment with 3-4 different color variations and around 15 "acts" per color variation. Sonic 4 has 5-6 environments (first 4 zones plus final zone plus bonus stage) with 4 acts per zone for the first four, one act for the 5th one and 7 for the special stage. About 24 total.

So while on paper Splosion Man has more individual stages, Sonic 4 beats it visually by offering moe varied environments. Heck, even some individual acts within a zone are different from one another. I'm loving Splosion Man myself, but have found that the environments lose their appeal about halfway through. Same cross section mechanical labs with molten rock inbetween. Sonic, however short, gives a grab bag of worlds to run through.

Now Comic Jumper, that looks to beat both Splosion Man AND Sonic 4 in the varied environments department.

btw Sharky, I'd love to be on the inevitable SEGAbits podcast discussing Sonic 4 when it releases. You wouldn't want it to just be you alone getting beaten up by the haters, would you? (besides, its looking like we'll be the only members to actually buy it)

[MadeManG74]

^I'll give you that Sonic beats Splosion man in terms of variety, but I still think the discrepency between content is enormous, especially when you take into account the fanbase, publisher size and value the name "Sonic" carries in the industry.

And yeah, Comic Jumper should be awesome!

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

Sonic 4 has 5-6 environments (first 4 zones plus final zone plus bonus stage) with 4 acts per zone for the first four, one act for the 5th one and 7 for the special stage. About 24 total.

But the "4th act" is just a boss. You can't really count it. And even if you consider a boss a separate act, then you could say Sonic 1 has 32 "acts", Sonic 3 (alone) has 33 "acts", Sonic 2 has 37!! Which makes Sonic 4 a lot smaller in comparison.

So while on paper Splosion Man has more individual stages, Sonic 4 beats it visually by offering moe varied environments.

Yes, but Sonic 4 still has less varied environments AND less content than Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K. Which is ridiculous.

[Barry the Nomad]

You're treating Sonic 4 Episode 1 as though it's the entirety of Sonic 4, which is not the case. I'll admit, the delay has caused Sonic 4 to become bigger than what it was in fan's eyes, but you have to remember that in total, the game will be three times the size of the first episode (assuming the rumors of three episodes is true).

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

I'm treating Episode 1 as the full game because they are probably going to be pricing it as a full downloadable game.

If they fix the physics, I would say $5-$7 is a reasonable price range. But even then, you'd still get an empty feeling after playing the game.

[Barry the Nomad]

Well, I guess it comes down to fans either accepting a $30-$45 total for the complete game (once all episodes are released) or rejecting the $10-$15 per episode prices based on the idea that the complete Sonic 4 should be a $15 budget title with each episode priced at $5 each.

I find XBLA titles like Hydro Thunder Hurricane and even Splosion Man to be a steal at $15, and would gladly pay $30 for titles like those. Heck, even some budget Dreamcast titles with lesser graphics and gameplay were priced at more than what current XBLA titles are. Without taking inflation into effect, Sonic 4 would be half the price of the original Sonic games at release. I personally think thats a totally reasonable price, but I can see how those accustomed to current pricing could see the $15 price tag as a rip-off. Hell, I'd gladly pay $35 for Sonic 4 compared to $49.95 for either Heroes or Shadow... or Sonic '06 for $59.95.

[Sega Uranus]

Comparing the prices of the original trilogy when they were first released is kind of silly. 16 years have passed since the last one and many different things have changed when it comes to pricing and development of games.

I think the point is kind of going over your head if you are going to defend with price differences and having more varied art than a small studio's second game. I think basically everyone else here can agree that we just want better for the game and are not just mindlessly hating on it, and as far as most of us can see, this seems to be more of a "Good enough" release. I mean, how would you feel if there was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, while SEGA also released a Jet Set Radio 3 that is actually a remake of the Game Boy Advance game?

And 'Splosion Man launched at $10, not $15.

[Barry the Nomad]

I mean, how would you feel if there was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, while SEGA also released a Jet Set Radio 3 that is actually a remake of the Game Boy Advance game?

And 'Splosion Man launched at $10, not $15.

That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future.

Also, pointing out that $5 price mistake I made on Splosion Man has really put egg on my face. Consider me "schooled" good sir!

[MadeManG74]

There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future.

Hmm, I don't know if it was THAT different. It had a minor change in style I think, but aimed at a new group of people? I think the same people who loved the original would love Future, and those who didn't wouldn't have been won over. The gameplay was slightly different but it felt again more like tweaking the formula than a complete overhaul,

[Barry the Nomad]

Yeah, it wasn't a night and day difference, but I remember there being quite a split among fans of the original game. I think it was the loss of the arcade feel (timer, a concrete points system that led to a rank) and the mid-mission boss battles that really turned off some classic JSR fans.

Remember that canned JSR Wii game? It probably would have been more of what Sanus was talking about. I expected it to be a all out motion control waggle fest with yet again retooled character designs. Definitly not a step up from JSRF in my opinion.

[Aki-at]

That is a design that Kuja gave to SEGA to pitch for a new Jet Set Radio game, not what SEGA asked them to do. The game was never in production for it to get canned by them.

Although why Kuja wanted pitched an idea to SEGA I'll never know, but it's a good thing they did, or Overkill would never have happened.

[Sega Uranus]

Samba De Amigo Wii was also pitched by GearBox, you know, back when people expected Wii to be a console for gamers. ...Kidding. [spoiler:3maf4xkk]But not really.[/spoiler:3maf4xkk]

That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future.

If you are going to go by that logic, there has not been a major Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles.

I do not really think Jet Set Radio Future is a different style or aimed at a different audience. It has similar mechanics, the same kind of settings, art and stories. The point I was trying to get around is that most Sonic stuff is barely similar to what it was like in the 90s and that the Sonic Team now is purposely trying to NOT go back to how it was, even if they say they are trying hard.

[Barry the Nomad]

Samba De Amigo Wii was also pitched by GearBox, you know, back when people expected Wii to be a console for gamers. ...Kidding. [spoiler:ficrv8hj]But not really.[/spoiler:ficrv8hj]

That entire Jet Set Radio scenario doesn't make a lick of sense, especially when you consider that there has never been a "Jet Set Radio 2" or even a sequel that resembled the mechanics of a previous game. There already was a new big budget Jet Set Radio game that was designed with a new style aimed at a new group of people, it's called Jet Set Radio Future.

If you are going to go by that logic, there has not been a major Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles.

Well, that's true. There hasn't been a major 2D Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles, so Sonic 4 would be the next major 2D release since then. Basically, there is 2D Sonic and there is 3D Sonic (obvious, but I typed that out anyway). I look at the 3D Sonic as an adaptation of the classics, but definitely not the next step in the 2D series. Aside from a continuing storyline and basic gameplay rules and elements, everything from Adventure through to Colors shouldn't share the same column as Sonic 1-3&K&CD plus all the spin-offs (Chaotix, Advance, Rush). My hope is that after the first episode, 4 ramps things up and brings in Tails and Knuckles plus the elemental shields and a true 2D Metal Sonic battle. Of course, only time will tell in regards to those, but I trust Sonic Team and Dimps (gasp!) to let Sonic 4 evolve.

[Dr. SEGA Monkey]

They can't bring back elemental shields because they put in the homing attack. So there's no way to do the bubble bounce, or the lightning double jump.