Ryu ga Gotoku 4 NEW Trailer

[Team Andromeda]

Gaming in the 80's and early/mid 90's was largely in the realm of kids and geek and nerd subculture. It gradually became more mainstream

The gaming Market is still very young , and in the late 70's and 80's just started to find it's feet . I know  lot's of Adults that bought the like of the Amiga , ST, ZX Spectrum , Mega Drive . Not just Nerds or Kids, but people starting to turn to Videogames,  with world of Mouth and mates showing off system ECT  .

Were jocks, (quarterbacks and wrestlers, not the geeky sports) playing Sonic 1, 2, 3 in the 90's? For the most part no.

Are they playing fps and other male domination fantasies now

SONIC would never be able to sell  44 million + , with out the help of the casuals. You're over playing the impact and sales of FPS's .

and thus you can kiss goodbye to niche and art content, lower the bar for mass appeal.

Same for the Film Industry , same for the Music Industry , its just the way of the world , and Video games is no exception . That is hardly the fault of FPS's or the SONY/MS gamer .

Seaman was for normal people? Why be selective

We can all play that game ,what's main stream about the like of Deathsmiles,  
Espgaluda II,     . In fact you'll never admit it , or indeed like it
But the systems with the most Niche games is the PS2 , but carry on thinking it's the DC

When Peter Moore was interviewed for DC's 10th he was asked about that, "was the line up too niche when the market was going mainstream.. GTA, Halo, Tony Hawk, DVD player, etc?"

Really ?, That's clever when  the DC had GTA II and Tony Hawks II  on the system early in  , HALO didn't come out until after SEGA killed off the DC (overlooking how hard SEGA pushed Quake III a FPS)  DVD had a Huge Impact in Japan for the PS2, but in the West ?.
I think in the end it was the Lack of Funds,  lack of Mainstream 3rd party support , lack of people buying Software , that killed the DC, not the mainstream gamer

My point is that the gaming demographic has changed significantly since the 16bit era becoming wider and more mass audience with each successive era

So , I don't see how you can blame FPS for that . The main people that buy and play games are gamers , the same breed , than were the gamer in 80's, 90's , Just with new and different tastes .  I see no difference with how the home Market for Films have grown over the years

The people that loved their VHS films  in the 80's , aren't much different from the Film buff of today , that loves their DVD's .  Just tastes have change  ( i grew up with the 80's love of Gore),  sales have gone up , and with the High Cost of films there's less and less Risk taking .
But at the end of the day , people that loved watching fllms in home in the 80's , aren't much different to people watching films today , same for gamers .

And there is nothing hardcore or Niche in Yakuza anymore , its about as Mainstream as one can get ,. Yearly updates , Reliant on an all star Voice cast , very little innovation with each new game , a sequel by the numbers  if every there was one, just like Fifa

[Waffle]

So when does Joe jump in?

[MadeManG74]

Yeah, this is just getting silly.

East, you complain that there are new gamers and seem to be upset that popular games are popular.

Thing is, and what you didn't account for is, the 'niche' or 'true hardcore' or whatever bullshit term you want to use for 'games I like that aren't popular' (because, seriously man, you have no actual guidelines for it. You just randomly assign games as 'hardcore' or 'mainstream' with no rhyme or reason) used to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Now that games are more popular, they are a in a much bigger pond, but the fish is the same size. It's not like all the gamers up and left.

[Sega Uranus]

I think Eastside is afraid of jocks, as he keeps mentioning them.

Seriously though, I like how he ignored my comments. I think the most casual game I ever saw in my life was Crazy Taxi, and everyone loves that game. Does this mean it is lacking on art or some bullshit? Of course not, everyone loves it because it is awesome fun and hilarious.

I do not know what a "Gamer's Game" is classified as when you throw out stuff like Halo and World of Warcraft out. You do realize people have literally died from playing those games for like weeks nonstop, right? If those are not true gamers, I do not know what is. I doubt anyone ever died from speedrunning Yakuza.

[Team Andromeda]

I think the most casual game I ever saw in my life was Crazy Taxi, and everyone loves that game

It was FF 7 for me (well bar Sonic & Mario) , that might explain why FF 7  is one the most returned games in History . Still Japanese RPG's are hardcore, aren't they  :roll:

Thing is, and what you didn't account for is, the 'niche' or 'true hardcore' or whatever bullshit term you want to use for 'games I like that aren't popular' (because, seriously man, you have no actual guidelines for it. You just randomly assign games as 'hardcore' or 'mainstream' with no rhyme or reason) used to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Now that games are more popular, they are a in a much bigger pond, but the fish is the same size. It's not like all the gamers up and left

Nice post . I still don't know what makes someone a Hardcore gamer , and would love to know what is the Most HardCore game of all time . In the end game are games, and there some that are better than other, or sell better than others
Still that's another topic, and getting back on Topic

Not long to go for the game or the demo to come out . It be nice to see if there's any genuine improvement in the game .The lovely lSE DX pack , looks very nice , with its great  Hip Flask

[east of eastside]

Thing is, and what you didn't account for is, the 'niche' or 'true hardcore' or whatever bullshit term you want to use for 'games I like that aren't popular' (because, seriously man, you have no actual guidelines for it. You just randomly assign games as 'hardcore' or 'mainstream' with no rhyme or reason) used to be a bigger fish in a smaller pond. Now that games are more popular, they are a in a much bigger pond, but the fish is the same size. It's not like all the gamers up and left.

http://www.gamespy.com/articles/701/701787p3.html

GameSpy: In the future, what do you think will happen to the hardcore demographic?

Zeschuk: The hardcore gamer demographic will continue to grow as the industry grows; however, it might shrink proportionally against the wider swath of more casual gamers that are joining the market with the increasingly mainstream targeting of the new console systems.

The founder of bioware seems to have no problem making distinctions between the three major market segments; hardcore, casual and mainstream. Maybe you and TA know more about the business of gaming than he does?

"The increasingly mainstream targeting of new consoles"  Looks like that is a real phenomenon?  The implications that extend from that is what I keep saying."



TA, how do you respond to a quote like this:

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.off

The Dreamcast was arguably the first casualty of a major shift in the gaming industry, one with even greater scope than the '90s-era transition from bitmaps to polygons. When the Dreamcast died, so too did the concept of videogames as the exclusive province of the hardcore.[/u]

According to you there was no shift in the gaming demographics.. so what is this 'transition' being spoken of?

"The most successful console is still the PS2 and it's still going strong," claims Hirai, comparing a console released nine years ago to a console released three years ago. "I think that's the console that really broke the barrier from videogames being just for videogamers into more of a mass market on a global basis. Nintendo's obviously done a great job in following that mass acceptance."

Kaz saying the same thing...

When the Dreamcast died, so too did the concept of videogames as the exclusive province of the hardcore.

Care to respond to that?

Same for the Film Industry , same for the Music Industry , its just the way of the world , and Video games is no exception . That is hardly the fault of FPS's or the SONY/MS gamer.

So , I don't see how you can blame FPS for that . The main people that buy and play games are gamers , the same breed , than were the gamer in 80's, 90's , Just with new and different tastes . I see no difference with how the home Market for Films have grown over the y

I'm not blaming FPS, though.. FPS is a consequence of a shift in demographics, brought on by Sony and later MS.  I don't necessarily blame Sony and MS, though.. that shift was inevitable, like you agree.

The point I'm contending is that there was a real shift and transition in the gaming market that occurred basically beginning last decade.  Frankly, I find that undeniable. It's a fact.

And with that a decline of the old Sega..

TA, take a look at this, too..

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/18-awesome- ... 237088/p-4

Why it tanked anyway: While it’s tempting at this point to just throw up our hands at this point and declare Sega’s early-2000s efforts to have been cursed, Orta’s failure at the market was really down to two things: by 2003, Sega fans – the vast majority of Panzer Dragoon’s fanbase – had become a niche unto themselves, and relatively few of them followed Sega onto the Xbox. As for mainstream gamers coming at Orta fresh, it seems the brand was a little too weird, the ultra-linear action a little too confining and the run-time a little too short for the game to really catch on or be seen as worth full price at retail.

Notice how it refers to "Sega fans", the old ones, as a "niche unto themselves" and then makes a distinction between them and the "mainstreams"?

That's why I said earlier, you can thank mainstream gaming for not having awesome games like Panzer Dragoon.  Why you call yourself Team Andromeda and apologize for mainstream gaming is an interesting contradiction?

[Team Andromeda]

When the Dreamcast died, so too did the concept of videogames as the exclusive province of the hardcore.

I'll Respond by saying there is nothing hardcore about the DC,  its only seems niche simply because it didn’t sell well. And what makes a game or console Hardcore , I'll love to know that

FPS is a consequence of a shift in demographics, brought on by Sony and later MS. I don't necessarily blame Sony and MS, though.. that shift was inevitable, like you agree.

The point I'm contending is that there was a real shift and transition in the gaming market that occurred basically beginning last decade. Frankly, I find that undeniable. It's a fact.

FPS weren't brought in by SONY or MS, infact the PS2 is pretty poor system for FPS, the PS not much better . The N64 was the console to own,  if you loved FPS's back into those days .
Its not like SEGA didn't push FPS it's self , Duke Nukem 3D and Quake were brilliant on the Saturn , so was Exhumed (all pushed by SEGA) and SEGA pushed Quake III on the DC really hard , and were milking Half-Life hype for all it was worth on the DC, before the game was dropped .


I put it to you , that a large part of why FPS become popular was also thanks to the introduction of the dual Sticks , and the fact that with consoles like the X-Box and N64 , Consoles at long last had the power and memory to handle the genre far better