The theme song to Sonic Forces Hoobastanks...

[Shun-Di]

Criticism is fine providing it's based off solid foundations that warrant it. My assessment of Sonic Forces is purely based on what we've seen so far (as I said in my last post) and should be taken as such till the game is out. Although I am looking forward to playing it, I do have what I consider fair concerns of Sonic Team making the same mistake as we've seen before, but we'll have to wait and see.

There's definitely more interest in Mania at the moment, but that might just be due nostalgia and a set release date.

nostalgia has nothing to do with it.  I just want it to be what I consider good.  I stopped getting Sonic games new because of everything that Sonic was doing that wasn't what made me like it in the first place.  Sega was pretty much like, "fuck you for liking Sonic til now, we're focusing on a new group of fans now."  But every game seems to be a weird science experiment and Sonic doesn't feel cool like he did in older games.  Nostalgia has nothing to do with this though because the newer games keep turning me off.  I know Sega is trying, but it seems like they don't understand or are too stubborn to change it now.  They do still have fans who support them.  But i can't lie to myself every time a new game comes out.  I'll be honest too that reusing older zones in Mania turns me off but at the very least half of those reused zones will have original content.  Plus there's newer zones and excellent gameplay, music, and animation.   I think Sega seriously needs to drop making Sonic games for a while and leave it up to the fans.  I really REALLY do. 

[crackdude]

Has it crossed your mind that maybe what you consider to be good doesn't please the target audience?

And if you think Sega needs to stop making Sonic games for a while, lucky you, because the last one came out in 2013 - the biggest break the series has had ever.

The reason these games turn you off is because you don't like them, that doesn't make them bad.

[Shun-Di]

Has it crossed your mind that maybe what you consider to be good doesn't please the target audience?

And if you think Sega needs to stop making Sonic games for a while, lucky you, because the last one came out in 2013 - the biggest break the series has had ever.

The reason these games turn you off is because you don't like them, that doesn't make them bad.

Lemme compare Sonic to Mega Man and you might understand.

Durring the 90s gaming entered the 16 bit era, and Mega Man classic games were getting stale and repetitive for both the gamers and the people who made them.  So when SNES came around they decided to revamp Mega Man's gameplay and story to suit the hardware and attract a now mature audience who most likely were kids who grew up playing the classic Mega Man games.  Mega Man X series came from it and it was fun and cool as hell.  The gameplay transitioned well to 16 bit and the music was tasty.  But most of all, X was cooler than classic Mega Man.  Unfortunately this didn't last as sequels came out.  There were some good ones and some god awful ones later on.  needless to say, there aren't any more Mega Man X games.  not because being cool sucked, but because the later sequels sucked hard.  They made the series a total joke.  This is what happened to Sonic.  Classic Sonic was over by Saturn era and Dreamcast gave us the cool reboot of Sonic, Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.  These improved Sonic in a 3D enviornment and understood what made Sonic cool and appealing.  Plus the music was tasty.  :D  Then Heroes came out and made Sonic a total joke.  then Shadow.... then 06.... then the wii games... Sonic got dorkier and dorkier as his music and gameplay took a nosedive with him.  Sonic and Mega Man used to be cool, now they're parodies, shadows of their former selves.  That's when Mega Man 9 happened.  That's when Sonic Mania happened.  We had to actually go back to the beginning to remind us of the good times and guess what?  They're actually fun.  They're actually cool.  Sadly Capcom seems to be against making any more Mega Man games after MM10 and Sega is still going on with Modern Sonic.

[Shun-Di]

Also Sega allowed BRB to make Sonic Boom, and that shit is still going too.    There's your Sonic games after 2013.  not to mention the shitty app games.

[Shun-Di]

The minute you change a franchise to cater to a wider or younger audience it fails.    Mega Man and Sonic needed reboots but they also had to be cooler and cater to the older audience who still played games.  There were adults I knew back then who loved them too.  That's how I was able to play them at such a young age, through their consoles and games. 

[Shun-Di]

Older Mega Man and Sonic games still rock to this very day.  i can't say the same for garbage like Fist Bump.

[crackdude]

First of all, stop quadruple posting. It's against the rules and you come off as rude.

Secondly, Sonic is about 3 times bigger than Mega Man. It doesn't even come close. Even more so when you take into account that Sonic is recognized worldwide by kids and adults alike. It seems to me that a LOT of people really enjoy Sonic.

Thirdly, I wholeheartedly disagree with you in most of your points. Brands evolve over time to cater to new audiences. Gentle reminder that a 20 year old that played Sega and Sonic when it first came out is now 45. You think Sega should make Sonic appealing to 45 year olds? You think that's the main demographic?

No. Us old farts have Mania appealing to our nostalgia. But kids...kids fucking love Modern Sonic. And that's great.

Sonic Boom is a TV tie-in spinoff. The Sonic Boom cartoon has been a massive success worldwide. And the "shitty app games" are some of the most downloaded and played games on mobile, with over 250 million downloads.

All your arguments point to one simple fact: YOU don't like the newer Sonic stuff, and that is OK. But the series is doing fine regardless of your opinion. So stop this insane discussion all because you didn't like a song in a kid's game.

[Shun-Di]

First of all, stop quadruple posting. It's against the rules and you come off as rude.

Secondly, Sonic is about 3 times bigger than Mega Man. It doesn't even come close. Even more so when you take into account that Sonic is recognized worldwide by kids and adults alike. It seems to me that a LOT of people really enjoy Sonic.

Thirdly, I wholeheartedly disagree with you in most of your points. Brands evolve over time to cater to new audiences. Gentle reminder that a 20 year old that played Sega and Sonic when it first came out is now 45. You think Sega should make Sonic appealing to 45 year olds? You think that's the main demographic?

No. Us old farts have Mania appealing to our nostalgia. But kids...kids fucking love Modern Sonic. And that's great.

Sonic Boom is a TV tie-in spinoff. The Sonic Boom cartoon has been a massive success worldwide. And the "shitty app games" are some of the most downloaded and played games on mobile, with over 250 million downloads.

All your arguments point to one simple fact: YOU don't like the newer Sonic stuff, and that is OK. But the series is doing fine regardless of your opinion. So stop this insane discussion all because you didn't like a song in a kid's game.

I'm not saying 45 year olds, i'm saying 20 year olds as well as kids and teens.  45 year olds are just older, that's all.  thir taste in gaming has not changed since they played em in the first place.    HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND? 

[crackdude]

45 year olds are just older, that's all.  thir taste in gaming has not changed since they played em in the first place.    HOW HARD IS THIS TO UNDERSTAND? 

Well, pretty hard considering it's simply not true.
I'm 25 and my taste has changed significantly over the years. Over many many things, let alone videogames.

My point was that eventually we will be 40, and to expect that Sega will cater Sonic games to us is insane. They have to draw the line somewhere. Modern Sonic are aimed at sub-15 or close, with some nods to older fans who still enjoy it.
Sonic Mania on the other hand is being made for us, who played the originals.

Take deep breaths, relax, don't take it so seriously

[Shun-Di]

Well, pretty hard considering it's simply not true.
I'm 25 and my taste has changed significantly over the years. Over many many things, let alone videogames.

My point was that eventually we will be 40, and to expect that Sega will cater Sonic games to us is insane. They have to draw the line somewhere. Modern Sonic are aimed at sub-15 or close, with some nods to older fans who still enjoy it.
Sonic Mania on the other hand is being made for us, who played the originals.

Take deep breaths, relax, don't take it so seriously

Oh no heaven forbid games appeal to gamers instead of just casuals.  Casuals are the future.  :p 

[crackdude]

Oh no heaven forbid games appeal to gamers instead of just casuals.  Casuals are the future.  :p 

Everyone was a casual when they started playing games. Remember that.
And our memorable first games were usually "casual-friendly".

[Shun-Di]

Everyone was a casual when they started playing games. Remember that.
And our memorable first games were usually "casual-friendly".

:/ It's not the same, Crack Man.  (great now i'm picturing a Robot Master hopped up on cocaine!)  The older games had more to them.  You know what?  screw it.  I'm going back to Sonic Time Twisted.   Gotta do something until Mania is out or i'll go crazy arguing with fans who are clearly wrong in thinking all Sonic games are the same.  :p

[crackdude]

If that is what you take from what I said, then I have no business talking to you. Whatever floats your boat dood