Bayonetta 2 Discussion Mega Thread

[ROJM]

I agree with this, because it was not only the investment in A:CM but the timing of it. The project began right as the economy took a major nosedive. Sega was reasonably expecting to have a game on the shelves in two or three years, but it ended up taking six years in the worst economy since the Great Depression. It's not farfetched to extrapolate that this one botched project had far-reaching effects on other projects.

Exactamundo.
Many of us are forgetting that this wasn't the first time Sega canned a multitude of projects. They canned lots of games back in 2008-9 and kicked Jeffery out because he also spent too much money on contract games and only a few were even ready for release. ALIENS CM took so long, the THE RITULIST THE EVIL WITHIN was stuck in legal litigation and other projects were in development hell that SOJ put everything on hold before they decided to can half the projects or told hayes to save a few and can the rest. If the situation between Universal Vivendi going under didn't happen, Sega would never have been able to meet their ALIENS license deadline and get a game out in the form of ALIEN VS PREDATOR and that was down to Hayes. The difference between Jeffery and Hayes was the western focus, under Hayes direction was growing with little development problems..his problem is that he stuck with ACM and that eventually cost Sega west dearly and to a little degree SOJ as well. If it wasn't an FPS with the name ALIENS attacthed Sega would have canned this game years ago..which they nearly did. But the fact is they simply couldn't afford to. GBX had them over a barrel and they knew it.

[Ben]

I agree with this, because it was not only the investment in A:CM but the timing of it. The project began right as the economy took a major nosedive. Sega was reasonably expecting to have a game on the shelves in two or three years, but it ended up taking six years in the worst economy since the Great Depression. It's not farfetched to extrapolate that this one botched project had far-reaching effects on other projects.

It's not too farfetched but it's a pretty big deal of speculation. Sega's refusal to bring major Japanese titles West is unfortunately a tradition that's began long before Colonial Marines was even thought of.

In the USA as well. Stop thinking that every one who brought ALIENS were gamers that knew the ins and outs of people trashing or talking about games. The game was succesful in both markets it was released in. Now stop trying to rewrite history..using an uncredited CEO of a failing and untrustworthy company like GBX to further your hatred and blame towards Sega..you said you were DONE with this point but you keep finding ways to prolong the argument..

The game disappeared from the top 10 in North America after its first month and was discounted almost immediately afterwards, so yeah, I'd be surprised if it sold anywhere near expectations in the North American market, unless those expectations had been dramatically lowered.

Anyway the argument was done but Gearbox issued a statement and I thought it would be interesting to see your thoughts.

using an uncredited CEO of a failing and untrustworthy company like GBX to further your hatred and blame towards Sega..

Hatred towards Sega? So you're really going back there again? Did you not see my glowing preview of Alien Isolation?

Of course not.

[ROJM]

It's not too farfetched but it's a pretty big deal of speculation. Sega's
refusal to bring major Japanese titles West is unfortunately a tradition that's
began long before Colonial Marines was even thought of.

I'm not speculating.    And before then Sega did import and localise a few of their big games..which traditionally they have always done. 

The game disappeared from the top 10 in North America after its first month and
was discounted almost immediately afterwards, so yeah, I'd be surprised if it
sold anywhere near expectations in the North American market, unless those
expectations had been dramatically lowered.

Er no it wasn't discounted after a month. So that is complete rubbish.

Anyway the argument was done but Gearbox issued a statement and I thought it
would be interesting to see your thoughts.

Hatred towards Sega? So you're
really going back there again? Did you not see my glowing preview of Alien
Isolation?

So what? Just because you say one good thing about one game doesn't excuse you banging on about Sega doing this and that and blaming them for the WHOLE thing. And then using GBX statement which is false(which you said its probably is so i give you that) to carry the thing on. Like i said Sega saved or salvaged what that mess was...the game was succesful enough for them to carry on the ALIENS license..since these deals depends on the success of the previous games..both parties have a way out clause that if they aren't satisfied with the games reception they can pull out. IE the game has to be succesful and make money. So without ACM there would be no ISOLATION. So ACM did one good thing...

[jonboy101]

So it's on the sales of one of the worst Sega games in years that one of the best Sega games in years is being made? How fitting.

[Ben]

"I'm not speculating.    And before then Sega did import and localise a few of their big games..which traditionally they have always done.  "

The Yakuza series has struggled for localization from Yakuza 3 on. Sega is typically not the worst at localizing games but they've certainly never exactly been the best. Why do you think so many people were freaked out when they bought Atlus?

Er no it wasn't discounted after a month. So that is complete rubbish.

I don't know about a month but I remember walking into Gamestops pretty soon after its release and seeing it for $40.

So what? Just because you say one good thing about one game doesn't excuse you banging on about Sega doing this and that and blaming them for the WHOLE thing.

If I hated Sega wouldn't I want to sabotage them by telling people that Alien Isolation was a bad game? 

Again, I do not hate Sega. I disagree with the way they handled Colonial Marines. That doesn't mean I hate the company. You're blowing this way out of proportion.

Like i said Sega saved or salvaged what that mess was...the game was succesful enough for them to carry on the ALIENS license..

Pretty sure Isolation began its development before Colonial Marines was finished, the game seems far too polished to have been greenlit after February 2013...

Edit; yup, I was right. Isolation began development 4 years ago, long before Colonial Marines released;

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/08/08/alien-isolation-developer-addresses-colonial-marines-fears

Not a big deal dude, lol, but again, you're just not correct in your statements. 

[ROJM]

The Yakuza series has struggled for localization from Yakuza 3 on. Sega is
typically not the worst at localizing games but they've certainly never exactly
been the best. Why do you think so many people were freaked out when they bought
Atlus?

Because there's too many uneducated ignorant fanboys out there that wanted Nintendo to buy them..something that was never going to happen. And not EVERYONE was freaked out about Atlus being brought by Sega. Again, Sega localised their games up to 2012. So let's stop acting that they didn't bother because the Fifth game didn't come out. 

I don't know about a month but I remember walking into Gamestops pretty soon
after its release and seeing it for $40.

Yes because gamestop is the standard when it comes to these type of things.. how scientific... .

If I hated Sega wouldn't I want to sabotage them by telling people that
Alien Isolation was a bad game? 

How can you when the whole world has actually played it..or at least the people within magazine and website circles have...and said thatthe game was good. 

 
Just using you're genralisations about the company from previous comments SL...

Pretty sure Isolation began its development before Colonial Marines was
finished, the game seems far too polished to have been greenlit after February
2013...

ISOLATION was always going to get made its part of the deal. As i said before ACM had to be released.

Edit; yup, I was right. Isolation began development 4 years ago, long before
Colonial Marines released;

http://www.ign.com/videos/2014/08/08/alien-isolation-developer-addresses-colonial-marines-fears

Not a big deal dude, lol, but again, you're just not correct in your statements. 

And what statement was that? That Sega canned the majority of their console development in the west? Did i say ISOLATION started after ACM release? No i didn't. So try again...just because you have no idea of inner company game politics don't start shooting down the people that DO know. Oh i know how to discredit someone..use a link on a website that is publicizing a game...grow up for gods sake...Geez you're acting like ISOLATION couldn't have been canned at any time..especially if the ACM didn't perform well...

[ROJM]

So it's on the sales of one of the worst Sega games in years that one of the best Sega games in years is being made? How fitting.

If you can call over a million bad sales...

[jonboy101]

If you can call over a million bad sales...

I meant critically in both cases.

[Ben]

And what statement was that? That Sega canned the majority of their console development in the west? Did i say ISOLATION started after ACM release? No i didn't.

Yes you did, you said that Colonial Marines did well enough to greenlight Isolation.....Isolation was greenlit 4 years ago dude lol.

Now you're backpedaling.

 

Again, Sega localised their games up to 2012. So let's stop acting that they didn't bother because the Fifth game didn't come out. 

You can look at every major Sega console from the Genesis to the Saturn to the Dreamcast and see a bunch of games Sega didn't localize.

Yes because gamestop is the standard when it comes to these type of things.. how scientific... .

I'm using Gamestop as an example. The price dropped quickly. Prices on games that are doing well don't drop within the first few months.

[ROJM]

Yes you did, you said that Colonial Marines did well enough to greenlight Isolation.....Isolation was greenlit 4 years ago dude lol. Now you're backpedaling.

No  i didn't i said this...

Like i said Sega saved or salvaged what that mess was...the game was succesful enough for them to carry on the ALIENS license..since these deals depends on the success of the previous games..both parties have a way out clause that if they aren't satisfied with the games reception they can pull out. IE the game has to be succesful and make money. So without ACM there would be no ISOLATION. So ACM did one good thing...

That's clear as rain. It doesn't say ISOLATION started development after ACM release it says successful meaning if the game had flopped ISOLATION wouldn't happen ie CANNED. So yes without ACM there would be no ISOLATION. Again you put 1 and 1 and come up with 24...

And do the maths, the game started 3 and a half years ago. They didn't even create the new studio until 2012/13. And that was when it was really nothing more than a demo before that time. Hardly real development at all which would have started for real between 2012 onwards.


 

You can look at every major Sega console from the Genesis to the Saturn to the Dreamcast and see a bunch of games Sega didn't localize.

No not really.Plenty of Sega games came out on MD, either they changed the title and graphics because of licensing issues.

I'm using Gamestop as an example. The price dropped quickly. Prices on games that are doing well don't drop within the first few months.

Not scientific and you know it.

[Ben]

Not scientific and you know it.

There's no science to it dude lol.

Games don't sell to expectations, publisher drops the MSRP early to clear out stock. Pretty simple.

http://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-Xbox-360/dp/B005THAX5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407564945&sr=8-1&keywords=colonial+marines

Official MSRP is $19.95...game only came out a year and a half ago. Not only is that a far lower-than-average price for a game as recent as A:CM, but you'll notice that Amazon has discounted the game even further, selling it for $11.99.

That's not what companies do to games that are selling well, lol. It's what they do when they're desperately trying to get rid of their stock of them.   

That's clear as rain. It doesn't say ISOLATION started development after ACM release it says successful meaning if the game had flopped ISOLATION wouldn't happen ie CANNED.

Why would they cancel a game 4 years in development just because a different one sold under expectations?

And Colonial Marines, if it only sold a little over 1 million (pretty sure it did) there's no way it made a profit, given what Sega supposedly spent on its development.

And do the maths, the game started 3 and a half years ago. They didn't even create the new studio until 2012/13. And that was when it was really nothing more than a demo before that time. Hardly real development at all which would have started for real between 2012 onwards.

I'm just going by what the developer said.

[pirovash88]

Rojm, i wanna know how Gearbox is considered a failing company. Didnt they develop one of the biggest games in recent years, i.e Borderlands.

Also, i just wanna put it out there that Colonial Marines went on sale very quickly. I remember seeing it discounted at gamestop, on amazon, and gamefly about a month after release.

I'm a Sega fan, but even i critcize them when need be, it keeps companies humble.

[ROJM]

There's no science to it dude lol.

Games don't sell to expectations, publisher drops the MSRP early to clear out stock. Pretty simple.

http://www.amazon.com/Aliens-Colonial-Marines-Xbox-360/dp/B005THAX5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1407564945&sr=8-1&keywords=colonial+marines

Official MSRP is $19.95...game only came out a year and a half ago. Not only is that a far lower-than-average price for a game as recent as A:CM, but you'll notice that Amazon has discounted the game even further, selling it for $11.99.

Ohh you have amazon now really scientific..gimme a break.Stop wasting my time, kid.

That's not what companies do to games that are selling well, lol. It's what they do when they're desperately trying to get rid of their stock of them.   

Yawn because that proves your silly case that it didn't sell when you use amazon as an example...

Why would they cancel a game 4 years in development just because a different one sold under expectations?

Because they are supposed to hit a certain sales target or they lose the license. They are suppose to release a certain number of games based on the contract they signed within a point in time or they lose the license. If ACM didn't hit Fox's expectations they would have used that and Sega would have had to can the game.

And Colonial Marines, if it only sold a little over 1 million (pretty sure it did) there's no way it made a profit, given what Sega supposedly spent on its development.

It did.You see Sega wouldn't have mentioned it in their stock reports if it didn't. They don't name games that flopped if it didn't make a profit. Now i'm getting reeeeeeaaaallllly tired of people presuming they know about game budgets and how its set and how it made money when they have no idea what the company set the sales target for, how much money went into the title and how much it made.   

I'm just going by what the developer said.

Again learn to add up.

AI didn't take four years for gods sake. ! The game was a tech demo it wasn't even an official game or even green lighted. It was shown to the higher ups who was impressed with it. It then got the full go ahead early april 2011 and the game really got going in 2012 and that's when they had all the people needed to. 2011 was really pre production, sorting out the story art concepts the works...mid 2012 was when actual game development began. And 2014 isn't even over yet. So the game in reality has really been going for three years if you count pre production...enough time for SOJ to have canned the game which any publisher can do regardless on what stage its at.

[ROJM]

Rojm, i wanna know how Gearbox is considered a failing company. Didnt they develop one of the biggest games in recent years, i.e Borderlands.

Also, i just wanna put it out there that Colonial Marines went on sale very quickly. I remember seeing it discounted at gamestop, on amazon, and gamefly about a month after release.

I'm a Sega fan, but even i critcize them when need be, it keeps companies humble.

I don't know what you're talking about..you have to remind me.

[pirovash88]

I don't know what you're talking about..you have to remind me.

I'm not following, remind you about what exactly?