What if Segabits ran Segasammy?

[ROJM]

I haven't even begun yet those are just the ones that came to the West. But please list the titles , because it just show how good SEGA Japan used to be, compared to today .

And again MISSING the point..IN the west. Were not talking about JAPAN but what came over for the west. So pleasse stop this grandstanding about the saturn..its got the worst reputation from gamers and sega fans. Just because you liked it doesn't mean a thing in the bigger picture.

Nope .I'm the one that keeps on saying that SOJ needs to do more and make more games for the west . You take games that come only come  out in Japan and SOJ line up is even more dire these days with no Yakuza 5 or PSO II .

Just like the saturn.

Call your self a SEGA man

..you admit it finally...

SEGA Rally
Virtual Cop
Fighting Vipers
Pazner Dragoon
Panzer Dragoon Zwei
VF II
Decathlete
NiGHTS
Astal
Clockwork Knight II
Magic Night Rayearth
WSB II
World Wide Soccer 97
Iron Storm
Dragon Force


All came out with in 2 years of each other . SEGA Japan were on fire in the Saturn days. 

Not in the west they weren't.And really half those games are subjective when it comes to be considered classics. 5 of those titles are arcade titles. Not original saturn software. Some of them are debatable of being considered classics by many sega fans. And most of the titles released for saturn didn't make it out of japan thanks to stolar and SOJ. So again a dire period for any console owning sega fan.



Again you hijack the topic..never really answer the things adressed to you or what the topic is actually about, all to impress people who don't know much about sega in general.

[MadeManG74]

Can I apologise to TA from my earlier comment about his formatting in posts? This forum is horrible for multi-quoting and breaking up quotes it seems. It ends up with lots of orphan 'size' and 'font' tags.

I was referring about the fact that many people talk bad about a game they hadnt even play, not even a demo, people who said shit about something just because they want.

I find that people generally don't shit-talk games unless there is something that they don't like about it, regardless of what it is. Are you thinking of some specific examples?

About the lenguage i think that a game should be translate to your language but if is not and you know others languages (Like me who can speak spanish and english) i dont think is a big sacrifice to buy a game like that just to show your support to the franchise. Nevertheless i agree that if you are not geting a game in the way you want is ok to buy it cheap.

If you are bilingual then more power to you, and it's a great talent to have. If you can enjoy games in other languages, then by all means it's a good idea to buy them on import. At the same time, most people don't have that ability and can't do the same. My enjoyment of Yakuza 5 would be a fraction of what it would be if I could play it in English for example.

If you said so

In terms of 'support from fans' we can only really throw around anecdotal evidence. I just do remember people talking and getting excited about 2 and 3 on forums as much as Yakuza 5.

I am not sure about the fact that survival horror fans had already play it because it is a remake from 12 years ago and the only port since then was on the wii. I think that there is an entire generation of gamers who dont know nothing about it and would like to play it for the first time in the new consoles. I dont know nothing abut some issues with the HD.

I would imagine most survival horror fans have played, in some form or another, the single most iconic game in the franchise and (in the case of REmake) probably the most highly regarded game in the Resident Evil series. It's been released in 2009, 2002, then prior to that it was released in 1996 on PlayStation and later on Saturn and PC. It's by no means a hard game to acquire.

I'm sure there are people who have never played it, but I also don't think it's the same as brand-new game.

I know you are not complaining about this, what you are saying is not a complain is just your opinion and i also would like to see more ports from SEGA or any others companies release to PC.

It would be wonderful, Vanquish and Bayonetta on PC would make me wet my pants.

I think it depends there are some young fans that have to be educated but there is also a group of old fans that just didnt want to attend to class if you know what i mean...

I know what you mean. I also mean in broader terms that until we purchase a game, we are really at the mercy of what the publisher allows us to see, and how the media reports on the game. When fans complain about something, it's usually for a reason.
This leads to two possible scenarios:
1) We have a legitimate complaint, and there's something we don't like about the game
2) We have seen something we don't like that may not actually represent the finished product, but we can only go off what we have seen.

In the case of number 2 it's because the game hasn't been presented to us in the right way.


I hope I'm making sense :/

Guess why games with F2P model starting to make profits even is a person invested  more than 50$.
In the 90's, a game could cost 70$, without considering inflation. So, yeah...too much for a game this days.

Not sure what you are getting at here. If it's that people are willing to spend more than $50 on a game, then I agree with you. I was throwing out an arbitrary number with that example, and talking about market trends more than anything.

You can see it happened in Australia, when 360 and PS3 launched, new games were RRP of $120. By 2011, AAA games were starting to release for $79 brand new (Batman Arkham City was the first I can think of).

Look at the PC digital market and how discounts dictate the sales trends so highly.

Free to Play models are difficult to gauge, Some people spend their life savings on Candy Crush, but how many play it and don't spend a cent?

Demos really hurt more than trailers or publicity. A famous case was RE6 which, likes asides, people realize that the game is "going to be a shooter" evenif the demo represents a part that only happen 2 times in the game per campaign.

That is entirely the fault of the publisher for releasing a bad demo, or one that doesn't represent the final product well. I used to buy countless games based on the strength of the demo alone. Most of my PC purchases in the late 90s and early 00s were based on demo discs from Magazines for example.

Demos can be a powerful tool if used correctly, and now gamers can't really experience a game unless they buy it. Until then we rely on media and what the publishers tell us, hence their duty to 'educate' us correctly if they don't want us to be negative.

He was talking about cases with foreign languages like french or german. For ex. Phoenix Wright Trilogy is only in English but in all the West territories and in Spain ,fans proclaimed that if the game aren't to be released in Spanish, they won't buy it, even if mostly all the games from that franchise are already published and many in Spanish, counting that this franchise is in a limbo in the West.

Apologies if I misunderstood. Again though, I think it's fair to ask that a game be in your language before you wish to purchase it. Whether or not the publisher feels that particular market is worth the cost of translation is another matter. Same as the consumer deciding if it's worth them purchasing the game if they need to play it in another language.

90k LTS for the first and 380k LTS for the last with a soft FW sales each don't tell me about the support and hype. Improvement yes but for the 4 is less that expected.

That doesn't really reflect the fans themselves. I don't know how many Yakuza fans are out there, but they might well have bought the game. I know I bought Yakuza Dead Souls (urgh) and 4 on launch. I couldn't buy 3 on launch because I did not own a PS3 until later.

Low sales figures don't mean that the FANS didn't buy the game, just that the game didn't perform with the greater audience.

If I tell you that Revelations (which many fans proclaimed as a step forward of reintroducing the survival horror in the franchise) sells less than Operation Raccon City...guess what is gonna happen with the problem you have tell us with this next re-re-release.

It was originally a 3DS exclusive (early in the system's life) compared to a PS3, 360 and PC release late in the generation.
It did get ported to 360,PC and PS3 over a year later though (and I bought it on PC), admittedly.

Again not sure what point you are trying to make here, that it's a sign that Survival Horror isn't as popular as shooting games? I'm not disputing that.

Yes, but I can't have this games if it means that Sega needs to lost a ton of money for that because the demand was too weak or economically poor in sales.

Again not sure what you are trying to say, sorry.

I don't know that I need to educated by the creator of the game I like :/

Let's say I'm releasing a game.
How do you know you'll like the game if I don't give you any information and educate you on what the game is like? Especially if I don't give you a demo, and control all the information and media that is released about the game. I need to make sure that I show the game in a positive light and give you reasons to want it.

Also sure I need to give a lesson to the creator about making games that I like even if I didn't study or know progamming. Sure, they can give me some fanservice but that's nothing new and it differs from fan to fan.

Again, I'm not talking about telling the developers how to make a game, but it's about you not having to like what they put out if you don't like it. They can't just say 'YOU ASKED FOR THIS' when the game actually turns out to be poor and be exempt from criticism.

Look at Sonic 4 for example.

[Team Andromeda]

its got the worst reputation from gamers and sega fans.

That's just the typical ones who never owned the system or bought just a handful of games for the system . Much like the ones who think the Mega CD was pants and the only good games were Sonic, Thunder Hawk and Final Fight . It never helped that the Saturn didn't do well in the USA so like the Master System, Zx Spectrum and a host of other systems that didn't do great in the USA  a lot of American's don't hold the system in great light.

Were not talking about JAPAN but what came over for the west.

There were great games from the West on the Saturn - I'll happily list you loads if I must ...

you admit it finally

Nice try but if you were a fan , one would know the Saturn most of the Saturn best titles all came with a 2 year span of each other from SEGA Japan

Not in the west they weren't.And really half those games are subjective when it comes to be considered classics.

Every game is subjective . And I'm sorry even in the West the likes of Nights, Athlete Kings, VC, VF II, SEGA Rally, Astal, WWS 97, WSB II, Clockwork Knight II, Panzer Dragoon Zwei all came in out in a 2 year life span after the Saturn 1st launched inthe West .

And most of the titles released for saturn didn't make it out of japan thanks to stolar and SOJ.

Nothing at all to do with SOJ. SEGA America signs up the games and pays SOJ for the games it like to bring over to the West . And every game in that list was brought over , it be an even more impressive list if one starts to list the likes of Dragon Force II, Blue Seed, WachenRoder, Sakura Wars and so on


















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[ROJM]

That's just the typical ones who never owned the system

Nope that's from EVERYONE who brought the system in the west.

or bought just a handful of games for the system . Much like the ones who think the Mega CD was pants and the only good games were Sonic, Thunder Hawk and Final Fight . It never helped that the Saturn didn't do well in the USA so like the Master System, Zx Spectrum and a host of other systems that didn't do great in the USA  a lot of American's don't hold the system in great light.There were great games from the West on the Saturn

No there wasn't. And don't spin the american line on me. The Master system had great titles in spades. As did the MCD. The saturn however didn't across all western markets. But lets name a few shall we? Great games ..Oh you mean SHINING FORCE 3 which didn't get localised and translated after the first game? Or the missing SAKURA TAISEN titles that never made it out? Oh yes great example of solid saturn gaming for the west..

- I'll happily list you loads if I must ...Nice try but if you were a fan , one would know the Saturn most of the Saturn best titles all came with a 2 year span of each other from SEGA Japan Every game is subjective . And I'm sorry even in the West the likes of Nights, Athlete Kings, VC, VF II, SEGA Rally, Astal, WWS 97, WSB II, Clockwork Knight II, Panzer Dragoon Zwei all came in out in a 2 year life span after the Saturn 1st launched inthe West .Nothing at all to do with SOJ. SEGA America signs up the games and pays SOJ for the games it like to bring over to the West . And every game in that list was brought over , it be an even more impressive list if one starts to list the likes of Dragon Force II, Blue Seed, WachenRoder, Sakura Wars and so on

Again were talking about the west. And as far as the west is concerned the saturn failed big time. You know it. Stop trying to rewrite history and go on about games that most people here would not have heard of let alone PLAYED. And that's to do with people who had the system.


And really? You're listing ATHLETE KINGS as a pinnacle of great software? Don't make me laugh puh leeze. WWS and WWS2 weren't games that people consider great Saturn games let alone great Sega games. Again the desperation prevails.

There's no coincidence that the MD and DC are fondly remembered systems from sega fans across the board than the saturn is. But of course keep saying everyone isn't a fan because you like it and no one else didn't. Keep saying the VMU is rubbish and spinning that every sega fan hated it when that isn't true. Keep spinning that the Saturn produced tons of classics when the classics can be counted on one hand. Keep spinning and lying. You just make yourself even more silly than you already have...

[MadeManG74]

But I personally loved Athlete Kings

[pirovash88]

I've never even heard of Athlete Kings.

Okay, as a huge 90's Sega fan, i didn't even pick up a Saturn when it was released, you know why? Cause the software just wasn't there. So i opted for a Playstation instead, which had tons of great exclusives that made it out West.

Saturn had a few great titles, but nothing that warranted that $399 price tag. It wasn't until years later that i finally went back and purchased one, along with a few titles like Nights, Albert Odyssey, Bug, etc. Sega of Japan dropped the ball on the Saturn hard and quite honestly i already had a Sega CD so i didn't  have any intention of paying more for a console that was on it's way down hill. I gave Sega another chance after the Saturn though and bought a DC day 1 here in the States and we all know how that turned out..

[MadeManG74]

I've never even heard of Athlete Kings.

Then you are not a TRUE SEGA FAN NERD.

END OF.




Just kidding... but you should check it out. It's quite fun.

[ROJM]

Then you are not a TRUE SEGA FAN NERD.

END OF.




Just kidding... but you should check it out. It's quite fun.

Fun maybe but not one of the all time greats. CLOCKWORK KNIGHT wasn't even considered a great game in its day and it still isn't and i ADORE that game. I can definatly say that the saturn era was Sega's quiet period and that's a shame because there was some grerat games made. But when you compare what SOJ did for arcade and DC in the DC era the Saturn software doesn't compare.

[ROJM]

I've never even heard of Athlete Kings.

Okay, as a huge 90's Sega fan, i didn't even pick up a Saturn when it was released, you know why? Cause the software just wasn't there. So i opted for a Playstation instead, which had tons of great exclusives that made it out West.

Saturn had a few great titles, but nothing that warranted that $399 price tag. It wasn't until years later that i finally went back and purchased one, along with a few titles like Nights, Albert Odyssey, Bug, etc. Sega of Japan dropped the ball on the Saturn hard and quite honestly i already had a Sega CD so i didn't  have any intention of paying more for a console that was on it's way down hill. I gave Sega another chance after the Saturn though and bought a DC day 1 here in the States and we all know how that turned out..

As long as you enjoyed the games and the period that's what really matters...

[Team Andromeda]

But lets name a few shall we? Great games ..Oh you mean SHINING FORCE 3 which didn't get localised and translated after the first game? Or the missing SAKURA TAISEN titles that never made it out? Oh yes great example of solid saturn gaming for the west.

By All means I'll list some of the Saturn games that were made for the west that were either AAA or decent games to the list I've already put and it may have escaped your notice that Sakura Wars never came to the west on the DC




World League Soccer 98
Steep Slope Sliders
Mass Destruction
Quake
Exhumed
Duke Nukem
Dark Saviour
Shinning In the Holy Ark
NBA Action 98
NHL All Star Hockey 98
Hexxen
A*M*O*K
Enemy Zero
Gun Griffon
Bakua Bakua Animal
Alien Trilogy
Tomb Raider
Thunder Hawk II
Need For Speed
Madden 98
Warcraft II
C&C
Story Of Thor II
Guardian Heroes
Vampire Saviour
X-Men COTA
Saturn Bomerman
Resident Evil
Darius Gaiden
Galactic Attack
King Of Fighters 95
Marvel Super Heroes
Die Hard Trilogy
Lomu Rugby
Winter Heat
Sonic R
Bug II
Keio II
Mortal Kombat Ultimate
Rayman
Soviet Strike
Skeleton Warriors
Mech Assault II   
Space Hulk
Magic Carpet
Riven
Sim City 2000

You're listing ATHLETE KINGS as a pinnacle of great software

Yes SEGA AM#3 at their best . The best track and Field game one could play at the time  , with bags of humor and classic SEGA touches on each of the Characters . Then also running at 60 fps and 704X480 . A stunner of a game and that was reflected in the reviews

As did the MCD. The saturn however didn't across all western markets.

You're having a laugh if you think there better software for the Mega CD than the Saturn in the west, a big laugh  .

And as far as the west is concerned the saturn failed big time. You know it.

Never said otherwise as far as most are concerned the DC is a flop , so was the Mega CD . But if you owned the systems and bought the games one might think otherwise.

Keep saying the VMU is rubbish and spinning that every sega fan hated it when that isn't true.

It was never really used 


 










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[Mariano]

I find that people generally don't shit-talk games unless there is something that they don't like about it, regardless of what it is. Are you thinking of some specific examples?

For example when the logo of resident evil 6 came out many people was already saying bad things about the game without even seen a screenshot, and they did this because they didnt like resident evil 5. The people i am talking about are the ones that think like this "I didnt like your previous game so when you released another one i will say bad things about it".
Now you can say that this kind of people dont exist but in my opinion yes they are unfortunately and i believe that the fact that you didnt like a game doesnt mean you have to talk bad things about the next one without knowing nothing about it.

[jonboy101]

By All means I'll list some of the Saturn games that were made for the west that were either AAA or decent games to the list I've already put and it may have escaped your notice that Sakura Wars never came to the west on the DC




World League Soccer 98
Steep Slope Sliders
Mass Destruction
Quake
Exhumed
Duke Nukem
Dark Saviour
Shinning In the Holy Ark
NBA Action 98
NHL All Star Hockey 98
Hexxen
A*M*O*K
Enemy Zero
Gun Griffon
Bakua Bakua Animal
Alien Trilogy
Tomb Raider
Thunder Hawk II
Need For Speed
Madden 98
Warcraft II
C&C
Story Of Thor II
Guardian Heroes
Vampire Saviour
X-Men COTA
Saturn Bomerman
Resident Evil
Darius Gaiden
Galactic Attack
King Of Fighters 95
Marvel Super Heroes
Die Hard Trilogy
Lomu Rugby
Winter Heat
Sonic R
Bug II
Keio II
Mortal Kombat Ultimate
Rayman
Soviet Strike
Skeleton Warriors
Mech Assault II   
Space Hulk
Magic Carpet
Riven
Sim City 2000



Yes SEGA AM#3 at their best . The best track and Field game one could play at the time  , with bags of humor and classic SEGA touches on each of the Characters . Then also running at 60 fps and 704X480 . A stunner of a game and that was reflected in the reviews



You're having a laugh if you think there better software for the Mega CD than the Saturn in the west, a big laugh  .

Never said otherwise as far as most are concerned the DC is a flop , so was the Mega CD . But if you owned the systems and bought the games one might think otherwise.



It was never really used 


 










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Now I'm going to enter into this argument a bit cautiously, because the Saturn is very near and dear to my heart.

However, it is very commonly recognized by just about anyone you care to ask, that as far as the west is concerned, Sega dropped the ball big time from 1995 - 1999. There were some fantastic games made during this time period (not least were those made by your namesake), but on the whole, it was a very disappointing time. The quality of the games were fine, but the quantity was awful. Sega had how many releases in 1998 for the Saturn? Five? Six?

Winter Heat 1998, House of the Dead, Burning Rangers, Deep Fear (not in America), Rayearth, Shining Force, Panzer Dragoon...that's all I can think of.

And Sega went over a year (Summer 1998 - Sept 1999) without releasing anything AT ALL in the west that I can remember.

Many of the titles in your list aren't Sega games, either. I thought this argument was about whether Sega's state today (keeping some of the best software exclusive to Japan) is comparable to Sega in the Saturn years. How does Command & Conquer or Duke Nukem help your case?

[pirovash88]

For example when the logo of resident evil 6 came out many people was already saying bad things about the game without even seen a screenshot, and they did this because they didnt like resident evil 5. The people i am talking about are the ones that think like this "I didnt like your previous game so when you released another one i will say bad things about it".
Now you can say that this kind of people dont exist but in my opinion yes they are unfortunately and i believe that the fact that you didnt like a game doesnt mean you have to talk bad things about the next one without knowing nothing about it.

You mean like Alien Colonial Marines, except that actually turned out to be complete shit. In some cases word of mouth and reviews can definitely be accurate means of criticism.

[Mariano]

Yes i mean like that. I understand if you are sketical about the next game but start with the wave of shit without even knowing anything yet?, i think thats just to much.

[Team Andromeda]

However, it is very commonly recognized by just about anyone you care to ask, that as far as the west is concerned, Sega dropped the ball big time from 1995 - 1999

The Saturn and Mega CD are my 2 fav consoles of all time and sure SEGA may have dropped the ball but the consumer and Arcade teams continued to pump out the classics . For many SEGA were dead before the DC came out and if you were a DC owner in Europe you got a crap end of the deal - not being able to enter your own ISP details (until the DC was dead) half the games not having their on-line modes cut out and so on, In Europe and Japan SEGA dropped the ball again with its Hardware,but the consumer teams still made the classics

Sega had how many releases in 1998 for the Saturn? Five? Six?

That's not being fair at all . How many In-House games did Nintendo have in 1996 for the Snes when N64 was getting to ship, how many In-House games did MS have in 2005 for the X-Box when the 360 was getting ready to ship , same for the Cube when the Wii was getting to ship, same for the Wii, when the Wii U was getting ready to ship .

Winter Heat 1998, House of the Dead, Burning Rangers, Deep Fear (not in America), Rayearth, Shining Force, Panzer Dragoon...that's all I can think of

Far more than what Nintendo or MS made for the Wii before the Wii U or what MS made for the XBox before the 360, more that what MS made for the 360 before the XBone One shipped  . Also that's just the USA/UK list in Japan SEGA also brought out the likes of Shinning Force III Pt 2 and III, Wachenroder (one of the most stunning RPG's around) .


Lets be fair about this now ....

Many of the titles in your list aren't Sega games, either.

In my 1st list it is and if one looks at MS 360 line up , its dominated by 3rd party games .

How does Command & Conquer or Duke Nukem help your case

Quality software and far better than the N64 versions for starters . It's an urban myth that all the best software was Japan only on the Saturn