The Console War..the truth...

[ROJM]

f

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No idea what you're on about MM but this is a serious topic. Leave the fun and frolics in another topic please. I respected you're wish in that Bayonetta thread you did so please do the same for mine...

[MadeManG74]

Redacted

[crackdude]

There was Shinobi X tho..

[Team Andromeda]

If Sega had these familar names from a console that DOMINATED the console war on Saturn..there was no way Sony would have gotten to the level that they did when they blastered the competition. That's the REAL reason why the N64 and Nintendo couldn't compete

Like with the DC you mean ? It had the SEGA familiar names and guess what the PS2 goes on to totally destroy the DC and in America the N64 did very, very well . It was in Europe and Japan where the system had a hard time . SONY had too much 3rd party support and it had no bad habits . So I really doubt SEGA would have won the war, but a SEGA focused only on the Saturn could have been a very strong number 2 worldwide .

And that's not including the sequels to AFTERBURNER and SPACE HARRIER which also made it to the Megadrive/Genesis. So let's get one thing straight...The Master System which sold like shit in Japan and the states..managed to not only see its Sega leagcy titles get Megadrive sequels...but in the case of PHANTASY STAR a megadrive port too!

You need to bare a few things in mind .. 1) Master System games took months to make and needed small teams to make them. 2) Sometimes the teams will push and want to make a sequel, while on the other hand they might want to make a brand new game or try something else.


Saturn did have a few sequels to fan fav IP like Shining Force , Story Of Thor , Land Stalker, Shinobi, But I for one were glad to see the Teams also able to try new stuff thanks to that we got some of the best games ever in the shape Panzer Dragoon series, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers and so on   


 

[ROJM]

There was Shinobi X tho..

That's not a proper SHINOBI game. That's why i said proper in my initial quote.

[ROJM]

Like with the DC you mean ? It had the SEGA familiar names and guess what the
PS2 goes on to totally destroy the DC and in America the N64 did very, very well
. It was in Europe and Japan where the system had a hard time . SONY had too
much 3rd party support and it had no bad habits . So I really doubt SEGA would
have won the war, but a SEGA focused only on the Saturn could have been a very
strong number 2 worldwide .

Yawn after the whole thing changed by the time the DC came out.Yet again using two different eras...especially when NO Sega game from that period became a steller franchise. Sega had to re introduce themselves from the get go as a third party. And amusing you backtracked on the Saturn being number 2...Which basically means you agree that if those titles HAD appeared on the Genesis intially combined with SOJ..and the marketing machine was intact..IE Kalinske still being on board..The Saturn would have gone toe to toe...and not a number two.

You need to bare a few things in mind .. 1) Master System games took months to
make and needed small teams to make them. 2) Sometimes the teams will push and
want to make a sequel, while on the other hand they might want to make a brand
new game or try something else.

Were talking about the transition to MD. Sega made sure the best selling games from the MS appeared on the MD ..when the MS had no market presence in TWO of the biggest game markets. Genesis didn't have that problem...yet the majority of the known games didn't appear..you see as  i expected no real answers just excuses excuses and more poor excuses.

Saturn did have a few sequels to fan fav IP like Shining Force , Story Of
Thor , Land Stalker, Shinobi, But I for one were glad to see the Teams also able
to try new stuff thanks to that we got some of the best games ever in the shape
Panzer Dragoon series, NiGHTS, Burning Rangers and so on   

No one said they shouldn't have made new games..what they should have done was make the popular games for Saturn intially to guarantee sales..None of those titles you mentioned apart from SHINOBI which isn't even a proper SHINOBI game were familiar to the wider userbase that sega built or should i say games they cared about. People wanted SOR..people wanted SONIC a proper version of that game on Saturn. Not titles that fitted the SOJ regime....

 

[Team Andromeda]

.especially when NO Sega game from that period became a steller franchise. Sega had to re introduce themselves from the get go as a third party.

?. SEGA's 2k sports series did for starters . Microsoft dropped not only many of its old fan fav IP but in a lost of cases also closed down the studio's with the move from XBox to the 360 . Sony it's self do the same too and quite a lot of popular PS and PS2 are no more on the PS3 or the PS4 . It happens

Sega made sure the best selling games from the MS appeared on the MD

Well for starters the likes of Revenge of Shinobi were not amazing sellers and Space Harrier II sold pretty rubbish and I really doubt anyone bought a Mega Drive for the likes of Space Harrier II . But back in the 16 and 8 bit days games didn't need to sell in massive numbers to get a sequel due to development times and budgets

No one said they shouldn't have made new games..what they should have done was make the popular games for Saturn intially to guarantee sales.

No one knows if a game is going to be massive or not - its a risk one takes . Sonic was a screw up , but the other's I doubt it would have much bearing really .


I doubt they would gave sold in huge numbers , But I was pissed off that we never saw a Saturn Streets Of Rage and a Saturn Mickey Mouse games both which to have made use of the Saturn's 2D might back in the day or that we didn't see sequels to Kensiden or Master of Darkness either on the MD or Saturn . It happens now again as the Teams want to move on and try new things , more so with the Saturn and switch to 3D 

[ROJM]

?. SEGA's 2k sports series did for starters . Microsoft dropped not only many of its old fan fav IP but in a lost of cases also closed down the studio's with the move from XBox to the 360 . Sony it's self do the same too and quite a lot of popular PS and PS2 are no more on the PS3 or the PS4 . It happens

Not in the way that it happened with Saturn..none of those games on Genesis had the chance to continue. Again you are comparing apples and oranges..

Well for starters the likes of Revenge of Shinobi were not amazing sellers and Space Harrier II sold pretty rubbish and I really doubt anyone bought a Mega Drive for the likes of Space Harrier II . But back in the 16 and 8 bit days games didn't need to sell in massive numbers to get a sequel due to development times and budgets

Yawn. Again they were sequels to games that sold WELL on the Master system...you are clearly desperate and grasping at straws to excuse the inexcusable.

 No one knows if a game is going to be massive or not - its a risk one takes . Sonic was a screw up , but the other's I doubt it would have much bearing really .

Absolute rubbish. The titles on the Genesis would have been an incentive for people to move towards the Saturn since they were popular at the time. But when it was clear that these titles weren't coming no one bothered and went to PSX or somewhere else instead.

I doubt they would gave sold in huge numbers , But I was pissed off that we never saw a Saturn Streets Of Rage and a Saturn Mickey Mouse games both which to have made use of the Saturn's 2D might back in the day or that we didn't see sequels to Kensiden or Master of Darkness either on the MD or Saturn . It happens now again as the Teams want to move on and try new things , more so with the Saturn and switch to 3D 

Keep banging the same old drum TA it won't wash. Were not talking fan favourite games here we are talking about titles that sold well on genesis and was identified with Sega, SOR, TJAND EARL, ECCO, SONIC, EC and Sega's DISNEY titles were all strong title sellers. Yet none of those titles continued with Saturn. So keep comparing games like KENSEIDEN and MASTER OF DARKNESS which were solid games but weren't impactful titles on that system like the ones that Sega made sure got sequels on the MD.

And its plain to see in any case...MS franchise titles got MD Sequels. SOJ MD franchise titles got sequels on the Saturn. SOJ SATURN franchise games got sequels on DC..yet Genesis franchise games specifically the SOA ones were missed out for an entire console generation. And when they were desperate to rectify that mistake by bringing them back to DC it was far too late..

[Team Andromeda]

Not in the way that it happened with Saturn.

Other than Sonic you'll find it did...




Quite a  lot of XBox and MS fans loved the likes of Mech Assault, Midtown Madness, Rallisport  games series and they were all dropped by MS on the move to 360 . Quite a lot of XBox fans liked the PGR, Apmed  game series and now MS have dropped those series too with the XBox One .  SONY well even they do the same they were quite a lot of Wipeout fans (it was the game that sold the system in Europe after all) that's dropped for the PS4, lots of PS fans that liked the likes of Colony Wars, G-Police, Medievil  and they were all dropped with the PS4, doesn't look like the PS4 is going to get a update to Ape Escape, Motorstorm,This Is Football  does it ? .


So no sorry all the corps drop IP and like to do new things .

Again they were sequels to games that sold WELL on the Master system.

Super Shinobi sold like crap in Japan and had a mega limited run . It did better in the west, but it was never close to selling a million copies and it didn't have too since it was a MD game.

Keep banging the same old drum TA it won't wash. Were not talking fan favourite games here we are talking about titles that sold well on genesis and was identified with Sega, SOR, TJAND EARL, ECCO, SONIC, EC and Sega's DISNEY titles

Sonic was a proven seller but even Sonic games were selling a dip in sales . Ecco II never sold as well as the 1st game , SOR III despite being better in every way (bar the music) also didn't see sales anywhere near that on Part II , same went for the last Mickey mouse last game .

[ROJM]

Other than Sonic you'll find it did...




Quite a  lot
of XBox and MS fans loved the likes of Mech Assault, Midtown Madness, Rallisport
 games series and they were all dropped by MS on the move to 360 . Quite a
lot of XBox fans liked the PGR, Apmed  game series and now MS have dropped
those series too with the XBox One .  SONY well even they do the same they
were quite a lot of Wipeout fans (it was the game that sold the system in Europe
after all) that's dropped for the PS4, lots of PS fans that liked the likes of
Colony Wars, G-Police, Medievil  and they were all dropped with the PS4,
doesn't look like the PS4 is going to get a update to Ape Escape,
Motorstorm,This Is Football  does it ? .

Again those aren't their succesful franchises. Again this is a typical response from you deflecting the issue to cause another pointless debate.

You were proven wrong about the console war years where Sega won that battle and the fact they were outselling Nintendo by a large margin..you then try to start another one about Europe but was slammed down by thre other people. Now you try to deflect it by saying all corps do the same thing by dropping games. No Microsoft and Sony rely mostly on third party support with their first systems. They only really started to get going with first party support with the 360 and PS2 respectivly. And they don't drop their biggest sellers.
Project Gotham is a sad excuse since that was down to the developer being brought up by Activision. Hardly the same situation. And bringing up a bunch of no name titles that didn't mean a thing back then doesn't detractt he fact that a company like Sega who never had any success on the consumer front until Genesis would go on to drop all the best selling games that their fan base was familiar with when they moved onto their next system.

We all know why SOJ stopped any genesis title that was associated with SOA to go on Saturn. Including SONIC..which the bore the heaviest cost. And the result is the leagcy.
The Saturn is a joke to many gamers and historians. The Genesis is veiwed as the most important games machine in the nineties..because of the feats it acheived. and THAT'S all thanks to SOA.

Funny how the SOJ MD games never got dropped and continued onto Saturn. Games that no one gave a fig about..even the Japanese. But hey you probably have an excuse for that as well.
TA:Well SUPER TEMPO outsold ECCO and EC combined on the 32x so it deserved a Saturn version"
You really are a SOJ loudpeice...and a poor one in that.... 

So no sorry all the corps drop IP and like to do new things .

No they don't.And not like how SOJ dropped everything that sold strong on the Genesis. But of course SOJ back then could do no wrong..in you're eyes...too bad VF is still a niche title like it was on Saturn in America...EC and the other Genesis franchises could have helped turn that tide...

Super Shinobi sold like blah blah blah telling my proganda cos i won't be
albe to prove anything i say as usual so i just repeat repeat repeat until it
sticks...

[Team Andromeda]

Again those aren't their succesful franchises.

You're having a right laugh if you think the likes of Wipeout, Amped, Midtown Madness wasn't successful  . Lots of XBox fans really loved the Rallisport series too, PGR  but developers/publishers  like to move on and do different things and so IP gets dropped for new IP. There's plenty of million plus selling IP on the PS alone that SONY dropped games like Jet Moto, Syphon Filter, Arc and so on it goes. 


So its not just SEGA, but MS and SONY do it too .

You were proven wrong about the console war years where Sega won that battle and the fact they were outselling Nintendo by a large margin

. It's fact that the Super Nintendo outsold the Mega Drive, that the NES outsold the Master System only you could even try and make out otherwise. What ever way you want to cut it, Nintendo had the biggest worldwide Market share over SEGA in the 8 bit and 16 bit days.

No Microsoft and Sony rely mostly on third party support with their first systems.

Sony did MS made the mistake of selling off and closing down most of its In-House studio's in the 360 era .Glad that MS knows that was a mistake that it not make again. Having strong 3rd party support at the get go is what helps one console at the start.

We all know why SOJ stopped any genesis title that was associated with SOA to go on Saturn

Other than EC , SEGA Japan let Sega America make the games they saw fit . You know I highly doubt SOJ put a order in for SOA to make Bug 1 and II make the likes of Three Dirt Dwarf's never mind the shit fest that was the likes of Congo,  Mr Bones, Ghen War and the like.

Funny how the SOJ MD games never got dropped and continued onto Saturn.

Sega Japan made the likes of Mickey Mouse series that was dropped , so was Ristar so was 'Wonderboy', Phantasy Star , so was Rambo , So was Streets Of Rage, So was Alex Kidd and there's plenty more and if one looks at the DC, one  would see SEGA do just the same to Saturn IP . No more Panzer, Shining Force, Burning Rangers, NiGHTS, Fighters Mega Mix, Dragon Force , Deep Fear and so on it goes .


SEGA liked to move on and in a lot of cases so did the developers 

[Nirmugen]

The funny thing about this is there is gonna be a movie from Sega perspective which is going to be exposed this era to the mainstream audience (if Kalinske is going to be portrayed by a good actor, will be a double win)

It's not gonna be 100% accurate but is better than nothing.

[ROJM]

You're having a right laugh if you think the likes of Wipeout, Amped, Midtown Madness wasn't successful  . Lots of XBox fans really

loved the Rallisport series too, PGR  but developers/publishers  like
to move on and do different things and so IP gets dropped for new IP. There's
plenty of million plus selling IP on the PS alone that SONY dropped games like
Jet Moto, Syphon Filter, Arc and so on it goes. 

Not really Wipeout wasn't a first party game to start with..or did you forget the Saturn version.... And again you keep comparing apples and oranges. You don't drop a whole slate of games when thoese games are crucial to get you started in the next market. But keep on excusing the inexcusable.

So its not just SEGA, but MS and SONY do it too .

No its just like SOJ who hated SOA which is why they dismantled a succesful studio dev base that SOA created.


.

It's fact that the Super Nintendo outsold the Mega Drive, that the NES outsold
the Master System only you could even try and make out otherwise. What ever way
you want to cut it, Nintendo had the biggest worldwide Market share over SEGA in
the 8 bit and 16 bit days.

No TA. The documentation is there for all to see the MD outsold the SNES. But i'm not suprised you would say that really...Someone living in famtasy land will always deny the truth...

Sony did MS
made the mistake of selling off and closing down most of its In-House studio's
in the 360 era .Glad that MS knows that was a mistake that it not make again.
Having strong 3rd party support at the get go is what helps one console at the
start.

Market pressures due to the credit crunch..everyone was doing that even Sega. But in 1995 there was NO market pressure to close SOA down to size. So try again...

Other than EC , SEGA Japan let Sega America make the games they saw fit .
You know I highly doubt SOJ put a order in for SOA to make Bug 1 and II make the
likes of Three Dirt Dwarf's never mind the shit fest that was the likes of
Congo,  Mr Bones, Ghen War and the like.

Those games were by Segasoft. Hardly the same thing. SOA titles approved by Kalinske were never continued.

Sega Japan made the likes of Mickey Mouse series that was dropped , so was
Ristar so was 'Wonderboy', Phantasy Star , so was Rambo , So was Streets Of
Rage, So was Alex Kidd and there's plenty more and if one looks at the DC, one
 would see SEGA do just the same to Saturn IP . No more Panzer, Shining
Force, Burning Rangers, NiGHTS, Fighters Mega Mix, Dragon Force , Deep Fear and
so on it goes .

Rambo and Mickey Mouse was licenses and Sega didn't have them. WONDERBOY had three games on the Megadrive continuing from the Master System so it had its run. As did ALEX KIDD. The majority of genesis games and the ones from SOA however didn't get a next gen move on with Saturn. Only a few did and they weren't games that people were clamouring for or the wider audience wanted in the states.

SEGA liked to move on and in a lot of cases so did the developers 

Sega likes to move on by continuing a franchise as well. With every system there's evidence of that. Not ignore a whole bunch like SOJ did with the best selling games from Genesis never getting a saturn game. Dude stop spinning you're crap. its tedious....
 

The funny thing about this is there is gonna be a movie from Sega perspective which is going to be exposed this era to the mainstream audience (if Kalinske is going to be portrayed by a good actor, will be a double win)

It's not gonna be 100% accurate but is better than nothing.

I know..TA will more likely troll when that comes out. For years he tried to call the guy a liar for the stuff he said..when the book came out with over 200 statements backing Kalinske up...it proved beyond a doubt that Kalinske wasn't lying. Its just silly people like TA who thinks he knows more about games and the games industy than anyone else..including the people who bloody work in the industy.

[Team Andromeda]

Not really Wipeout wasn't a first party game to start with

No SONY just bought Psygnosis in 1993  and it's not like Novatrade was a 1st Party developer either . Sometime games can appear on rival systems , or do you forget how SEGA IP like OutRun, AfterBurner II, Altered Beast, Shinobi Ect also came out on the PC-Eng

You don't drop a whole slate of games when tthosegames are crucial to get you started in the next market. But keep on excusing the inexcusable.

Well SONY and MS do . Remember how SONY and its best chum Namco used to use Ridge Racer to lauch the new consoles, those days are long gone now .

No its just like SOJ who hated SOA which is why they dismantled a succesful studio dev base that SOA created.

If you're on about STI - Then that was SEGA America and again SEGA America messed up and closed down the Multi Media studio too .

No TA. The documentation is there for all to see the MD outsold the SNES

Yeah Worldwide sales the Snes comes out on top by some 10 million units , its not even close .

Market pressures due to the credit crunch.

LOL, What the hell are you on about . The Credit crunch happened in 2008 . MS closed down most of its In-House studio's long before then with it closing down Fasa, Digital Anval, Indi Built. 


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[/size][/color]Those games were by Segasoft[size=78%][/size] [/size]

[/size]
[/size]
[/size]100% owned and set up by SEGA America and Japan  and no sorry Segasoft did not develope Mr Bones or the likes of Congo, Ghenwar .
[/size]

Rambo and Mickey Mouse was licenses and Sega didn't have them

And yet you say you wanted Mickey Mouse to be on the Saturn . SEGA could have least got the Rambo rights if it really wanted them .

WONDERBOY had three games on the Megadrive continuing from the Master System so it had its run

Lol and what Sonic didn't . 4 main Mega Drive games, 1 Mega CD game and a few spins off and games on both the GameGear and Master System .

Sega likes to move on by continuing a franchise as well

SEGA Enterprises' had' a history of moving on to new stuff and letting its developers make new IP , Not just Mega Drive IP, but also Saturn IP .




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[ROJM]

got nothing intresting or valid to say..spam spam spam spam spam and no back up ...

You lost. Its proven that Sega won the console war. End of discussion.