The Console War..the truth...

[Mariano]

No its someone joining a SEGA fan forum and calling themselves Nintendo

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/610/825/eec.jpg

[ROJM]

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/610/825/eec.jpg

Gimme a Kudos...that's more appreciated.

[Team Andromeda]

Yep that's exactly what he's saying. Sega gave Nintendo a beating and a whipping

Only In America and the UK and its not like the Snes was a total flop in the USA and UK either. At the end of the day you can say what you want Joe but your argument falls to pieces in a few key area's ... Looking over that the Snes outsold the MD but some 10 million units there's a couple of more key facts and that's Nintendo share price and profits and in the 90's Nintendo share price was always higher than SEGA's and more telling Nintendo would make at least double the profits of SEGA through out the 90's.

[Nirmugen]

Noone says that SNES was a flop, it was a sucess that helped both the industry and the consumer in general but not as big as MD which in 4 years gave to Sega 4 billion USD in the bank by sales and profits.

Nintendo invest so much money in the first half of 90's to keep the 50% of the market that almost go out of the business if Pokemon didn't happen.

[pirovash88]

You really think so? The NES was a huge success, it makes it hard for me to believe that Nintendo almost ran out of cash due to investments in the SNES..

[Nirmugen]

The Sony CD deal, massive advertisiments, Virtual Boy, The FX chip which was only used in 8 games with a reduced price , 3rd parties payments deals, exclusive retailers deals, R&D cost for N64 Games tha almost cost the double of making a PSX game, and more...

[ROJM]

Noone says that SNES was a flop, it was a sucess that helped both the industry and the consumer in general but not as big as MD which in 4 years gave to Sega 4 billion USD in the bank by sales and profits.

Nintendo invest so much money in the first half of 90's to keep the 50% of the market that almost go out of the business if Pokemon didn't happen.

I'm saying its a flop. Think about it. The SNES had quite some pretty tech for that system which wasn't cheap. Each market for that system has to hit a specific target in order to at least get its investment back. Then its got to make a profit. Manaufacturing costs for the console and its parts are also a factor. The SNES outside of japan struggled to get anywhere near Sega's lead. People are under the mmisconception that it was a close battle. It was n't even close. Sega dumped Nintendo from a vast height.

When you also factor profits...and then take the elements of operating costs..etc etc..Nintendo didn't have much to play with as they did in the previous NES era. Then factor in the R+D disasters and Nintendo being sued by third parties which cost Nintendo dearly...they were paying out more than they were actually making on the SNES. Which is why it remained on the shelve for so long. If anyone really thinks Nintendo would make the mistake of waiting for the former competitor to take the market again and the monster it helped create Sony also take the lead..then people are living in lala land. Nintendo simply couldn't bring N64 out because they weren't in a position to do so..the SNES HAD to make its money and fast.

Sega on the other hand were more clever at regaining their investments. The consoles shared the same tech as their arcades. So the megadrive which was cheap to produce compared to the SNES was also bringing back its investment thanks to the system 16 arcade boards. And since Sega dominated the market during the eighties and nineties..there was no problem in selling this tech to arcade operators across the world. That's probably why Sega was able to dump the Saturn when they did because of the practice of using the investment on the tech they built and spinning it off to arcades and console. So while the Saturn flopped..they at least got their investment on the tech back. Nintendo never had that option. And we can see how they practice..using old tech and passing it off as a new system like the Wii. The SNES was a flop because it didn't dominate and only made it a success after the war was over. The N64 was a flop because it was too expensive to manaufacture the tech..the console and the cartridges...and the rumple pack joypads...when everyone else moved on to the cost effective CD format. Remember the N64 was a distant number 2...WORLDWIDE. The GC was a flop and Nintendo LOST that investment...and had to use the same tech for the next system the Wii which became a success. Now they have lost their investment again by trying to use an old method old tech housed by new tech  controllers but not been able to shift enough units.   
So this BS that Nintendo won more than two console wars is just that.BULLSHIT. They won the japanese 8 bit war. They won the last gen war. But they no way ever won the classic 16 bit console war. No one has been able to prove me wrong on any of this since i started to say this years ago. I proved it once..i proved it once..i proved it now..and i shall do it again with more details at a time of our choosing.

[Team Andromeda]

Noone says that SNES was a flop, it was a sucess that helped both the industry and the consumer in general but not as big as MD which in 4 years gave to Sega 4 billion USD in the bank by sales and profits

What on earth are you on about ? . SEGA net worth has never been over $2 billion for the entire group , even in it's hey day . Looking over that in the 90's Nintendo was sitting on $3 billion in cash reserves alone.

[size=78%]The Sony CD deal, massive advertisiments, Virtual Boy, The FX chip which was only used in 8 games with a reduced price , 3rd parties payments deals, exclusive retailers deals, R&D cost for N64 Games tha almost cost the double of making a PSX game[/size]

Simple facts for the 90's . SEGA PR budget was bigger than Nintendo's and to see you go on about the FX chip is just laughable , remind us again how many games the SVP chip was used in ? . And its not like SEGA didn't has its fair share of hardware disasters ... The Activator, [size=78%][/size] The Mega Drive 3D glasses, The Nomad, the Multi Mega and so on it goes . Sorry Nintendo not only had more marketshare than SEGA, but also always had bigger cash reserves and made more money than SEGA through out the 90's [size=78%]


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[ROJM]

What on earth are you on about ? . SEGA net worth has never been over $2 billion for the entire group , even in it's hey day . Looking over that in the 90's Nintendo was sitting on $3 billion in cash reserves alone.



Simple facts for the 90's . SEGA PR budget was bigger than Nintendo's and to see you go on about the FX chip is just laughable , remind us again how many games the SVP chip was used in ? . And its not like SEGA didn't has its fair share of hardware disasters ... The Activator, The Mega Drive 3D glasses, The Nomad, the Multi Mega and so on it goes . Sorry Nintendo not only had more marketshare than SEGA, but also always had bigger cash reserves and made more money than SEGA through out the 90's [size=78%]


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The Nomad and Activator weren't disasters..that's a myth concocted by idiot fanboys who don't know anything. Nomad doesn't cost them anything much like the Mega combination because its using old tech. The costs to make them are minimal and sega got its investment back tenfold already on the MD. Because it was cheaper than the SNES.Which is why they were able to really commit to many variations of the genesis and support nearly7 systems.
The SNES didn't get its investment back straght away..factor in mode 7..THE  colr palette etc...factor in FX cHIP..factor in its failed Nintendo bazooka..and you get a really bad market picture.
Sony had tons of money to play with after PS2...After PS3..they are failing...their movie company is failing and they may have to give back Spider Man to marvel..or to lease it to them just tomake money. It doesn't matter what you have in the reserves..its what you make that counts..and Nintendo had not made enough profit for the SNES which AFFECTED their status and company worth.
 
Nintendo did not have more marketshare than Sega...SAnyone who knows finances..and BACK UP their evidence which i have done KNOWS that.

Are you Nintendo by anychance? i find it strange someone actually two people out of the blue comes out of no where just to back you up...and happen to have the same writing style that you possess. Are you that much of a sadcase that you HAVE TO pretend to be some one else just to get a point over? Are you that stupid to think people will accept your santi sega propaganda when you show NO EVIDENCE to back any of you're claims up.
I want evidence from you TA. Not magazine scans..actual data scans of that period. I've shown mine..you do the same. If you can't then you are nothing but a troll posing as an insider.

[Team Andromeda]

The Nomad and Activator weren't disasters..that's a myth concocted by idiot fanboys who don't know anything. Nomad doesn't cost them anything much like the Mega combination because its using old tech.

All hardware cost money not only in terms of R&D but also then in terms of manufacturing and PR, also just because systems like the Nomad was using established tech does not mean it's cheap has you can't use the old assembly lines and have to come out with new ones to manufacture and shrink the tech to fit in the handheld, then you  issues over the LCD screen and then the testing that will be needed to be done to check the new board can work in the handheld casing and so on . The Multi Mega was a stunning bit of kit and a great bit of R&D to fit it all into one neat package but it sold like utter crap


What is true to say is that the likes of Super Snes CD, N64 DD, Multi Mega, Saturn, FX Chip, Virtual Boy and so on never really affected SEGA or Nintendo profits in their hey day , but one has to question were some of the R&D products worth spending the money on and if that money would have been better spent on other products or more games

The SNES didn't get its investment back straght away..factor in mode 7..THE  colr palette etc...factor in FX cHIP..factor in its failed Nintendo

Looking over the complete dominance of the Famicom and NES in Japan and the USA (where is 1 in every 4 USA homes had one or something silly like that) The Super Famicom was a complete sell out on it's launch in Japan and always sold at either cost price (to be fair SEGA did that with the MD too) . It took until the DC for SEGA to start selling systems at a loss or with Nintendo the Wii U.


In 1991/2 Nintendo made profits of over a $Billion , SEGA has never been able to post a set of results like that, to put in to context . When SEGA was set for a merger with Bandai the whole SEGA Group was valued at $1.5 billion to $2 billion and it was more or less the same value when CSK and the late great Isao Okawa-san were looking to sell their entire stake to Microsoft .

Are you Nintendo by anychance?

LOL. Are you typing in the school yard, because that's the type of response I would expect from the school yard . What next ? If one points out that Man Utd are the most biggest and most successful football club in the UK in modern times, that makes you a Man Utd fan ? . Point out the simple truths does not make you a fan   




 
   

[ROJM]

I have nothing to show so i keep making bs up...so i create a wall of text and repeat rrepeat repeat..




LOL. Are you typing in the school yard, because that's the type of response I would expect from the school yard . What next ? If one points out that Man Utd are the most biggest and most successful football club in the UK in modern times, that makes you a Man Utd fan ? . Point out the simple truths does not make you a fan   




 
   

TA you're the one acting like a kid. You are the one who lies and spin when people debate a point that you can't back up. You are the one who IGNORES evidence shown to you time and again. You are the one who has obvioulsy posted as two diferent people to "back you up" on two different topics that you happen to be losing....yet they write in the same venculiar as you do. You LOST this argument ages ago. There is no debate. Again show the evidence fro actual DATA SHEETS like i did or shut up.

[Nintendo]

What a statement! So then by your estimation if the PS3 continues to be sold for another few years, and it eventually catches up to the Wii and outsells it, the Nintendo lost the last one?

Yes. I'll talk more later.

[ROJM]

Yes. I'll talk more later.

Don't bother. Mods what the hell are you guys doing if you are going to let a Nintendo troll come in here? This is MEANT to be a SEGA FAN forum..not a place for nintendo zealots to come in here and bash Sega....pick it up guys! Shez...

[Barry the Nomad]

Yes. I'll talk more later.

Either post something of substance or don't post. Don't post promising a reply. And let's cool the debate guys.

[Team Andromeda]

you're the one acting like a kid. You are the one who lies and spin when people debate a point that you can't back up.

I'm try and deal with facts and in 1997 SEGA was valued at less than 2 billion with the Bandai deal . In 1991 Nintendo posted pre tax profits of over a billion USA dollars more than double what SEGA group could post. Nintendo over the last 30 years has been one of the most profitable and successful corps in Japan .

You are the one who IGNORES evidence shown to you time and again.

No You do and so far you've only posted a scan of USA hardware sales .

I'll defy you to 1) Show a link or scan that shows the Mega Drive outsold the Super Nintendo for Worldwide sales 2) Show a link of scan that shows SEGA making more profit than Nintendo throughout the 1990's, or 3) a Link of scan that shows SEGA shares were more valuable than Nintendo  .

Go on try it and then come back to me