Author Topic: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America  (Read 141123 times)

Offline inthesky

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #285 on: February 16, 2015, 05:00:58 pm »
There's probably more at work. Hatsune Miku/ Vocaloid stuff is a strong multimedia presence. Concerts, etc. I don't know what the timing was like, but Vocaloid stuff being -at least- moderately popular outside of Japan helps make localization an easier sell. Plus the comparatively low translation costs, easy DLC (this helps when you make the pitch for localization, I'd guess, even if I hardly ever buy DLC myself) blah blah

Yakuza could probably do better than it has been. The reasons for that, it's hard for me to guess. I'm not sure what exactly Yakuza is supposed to be competing with, if anything. I think it's a pretty unique mix of different things. One thing that I could point out is probably that it's a continuing story, while Project DIVA stuff you can just jump in whenever. Sega does good work in offering the story refreshers, but that may not be enough to those who don't know that Yakuza games offer those refreshers on past games. Apparently numbered entries are quite off-putting to some consumers, something that really irritates me
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Offline Ranger X

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #286 on: February 17, 2015, 12:11:34 am »
The real life Yakuza forces Sega to make games romanticizing them and making them look good. He probably has to work on making more Yakuza games where the Japanese mafia saves little children and protect society from bad people or one of their buildings will get burnt down or employees will wind up 'missing'.


Half-Joking


I do find Nagoshi's comments about Grand Theft Auto staggeringly hypocritical and silly. He criticizes GTA for glorifying violence when his Yakuza games glamourize gangsters to a far greater degree (the hostesses, etc). Both games deal in gangster chic but at least GTA satirizes it. Yakuza celebrates it ironically.


If you make games celebrating the people who own your company, well, you might get favourable treatment whereas others might find themselves sidelined.

Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #287 on: February 17, 2015, 02:06:09 am »
I think Yakuza would have been better off not having connected plots so much but characters with new enemies that are self-contained stories.

Offline Aki-at

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #288 on: February 17, 2015, 06:03:24 am »
Sonic Team can only do what they are told . Putting Sonic on just Wii U was a total balls up , not having the team ready for a new Sonic game on both the PS4, and XBone another balls up , by the top brass as is not getting PSO II on the next gen consoles right now . I don't blame the ST for that, more people like Nagoshi-san who have the final say on what should and can't be made .

And wither you like it or not, Sonic is actually in a better condition now than the 00s, this is fact. Sonic Team have been responsible, under Naka, for Sonic Heroes, for Shadow the Hedgehog and (Without Naka.) the calamity that was Sonic 06, they've killed the brand a lot more than one little bomb on the Wii U.

A new Game developed souly for this gen of consoles . To which I put to Yakuza Ishi is not .

It doesn't matter if it isn't, as long as it's a remake. I've said plenty of times LittleBigPlanet 3 is new content, even if WatchDog was produced for PC it is still new content for any specific console. This isn't a discussion about current gen exclusive but providing people like Mang and Crack with content.

Name a game that doesn't feature content ?

Again you are finding it hard to understand that content did not mean volume in this case.

You rather see SEGA Japa make Tetris , rather than a brand New next gen game with a impressive graphics engine . Says it all . That is not the SEGA I grew to love at all .

Oh get lost. You'd rather scream like a fangirl over new technology instead of well thought out gameplay, that's a crucial part to SEGA as well. But what can I expect from someone who loves Capcom's output due to their technical achievement, says it all really.

And double get lost if you think people should only enjoy AAA games, it says it all about you. You want everyone to think like you when none of the regular here can even comprehend the amounts of loops you have to get around before reaching your conclusions.

It's not just me and Joe .

By far the only two who enter into needless discussion thus requiring massive amounts of quotation is you and Joe.

Offline Trippled

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #289 on: February 17, 2015, 06:19:02 am »
No idea to be honest, we can talk long and hard about the localization topic and not only about SEGA but about the industry in general, but for me one thing is for sure. If SEGA or SEGA-SAMMY dont want to localize most of their games, then at least i want them to earn money with those decisions. In a business way to see it is very simple, you bring games and make your fanbase happy, or you dont do it and save money, it have to one of those.

Obviously i would like to see a balance in this, for example Hatsune miku seems to be a good localization product for SEGA, if we and SEGA can manage to have a couple of more things get out of Japan (like we are having this year) and make them a good localization product, then i and a lot of others fans would pretty much get satisfied with the efforts of the company and viceversa.

In the end of the day, localization or not localization...it doenst really matter if the franchise cant get "firm" in the west, what it matter is to have a balance, i want some of the games that SEGA have in japan, but at the same time i can be so selfish to ask them to bring something than definetly will not sell here and cost them money.

That is the point in my opinion, to manage than we and the company, have a win-win.

A East and West divide can be a good thing in some aspects...but the ambition is too big I feel, especially during the 00's. Providing each market with it's own good game and have good sales can work in some aspects, we have Yakuza and PSO being popular in Japan, and in the West PC RTS and Football Manager are popular. But then you have a dissapointing Sonic game, and then have good Sega games be in Japan only, it just leaves people sour.

Just for example in 2008, Japan saw an excellent revival of things like Fantasy Zone, while in the meantime we got Golden Axe: Beast Rider instead. It leaves the fanbase frustrated.


Nowadays, the route Sega is going, is having a slow expansion of things that they grew popular in Japan, with the West as the lowest priority of porting (Asia get's priority appearently).
« Last Edit: February 17, 2015, 06:24:47 am by Trippled »

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #290 on: February 17, 2015, 08:42:13 am »
I think Yakuza would have been better off not having connected plots so much but characters with new enemies that are self-contained stories.

I agree to an extent. I feel like the games have a stigma of 'you need to play them ALL to understand the story!', but I don't think that's entirely true. I feel each game is self-contained enough that you could still enjoy it without playing the previous ones, yes even without the 'reminisce' mode.

Do we really need to know about the money embezzlement and Daigo being saved/betrayed and all the exact details? It's kind of like in The Witcher, you meet a lot of characters that Geralt knows from the books and has had detailed adventures with, and it's kind of just touched on in the games. It gives you a feeling of history and familiarity but it's not required to know exactly what Geralt and Dandelion got up to last time they went adventuring as the plot of the game is pretty well self contained.

It would be great if Sega gave Yakuza another shot in the west with a fake 'reboot'. Call it 'Like a Dragon' and give it a decent release (even if it's just subtitled again) and see if people are more likely to try it than a numbered sequel?

I just don't understand why this series wouldn't work in the west, as many others have said.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #291 on: February 18, 2015, 04:23:50 am »
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And wither you like it or not, Sonic is actually in a better condition now than the 00s, this is fact
Sales say otherwise and its got so bad for Sonic we've even had topics on here so about should SEGA leave Sonic alone and now with the news that Sonic Team are going mobile it looks like Sonic isn't going to be making his great return to the next gen consoles.
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under Naka, for Sonic Heroes, for Shadow the Hedgehog and (Without Naka.) the calamity that was Sonic 06, they've killed the brand a lot more than one little bomb on the Wii U
Why do people even class Shadow as a Sonic game is beyond me - Its not a Sonic game but a spin off just like Lugi Mansion isn't a Mario Platform game  . Under Sammy we've saw the mess that was Sonic 06 and then Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Boom which hurt the Sonic brand along with trip like Sonic the Black knight and then the total cock up of making Sonic exclusive to the Wii U and the sales disasters  that Sonic Boom and Sonic Lost World .
So no Sonic isn't in good shape at all and now thanks to Sammy isn't even a million selling IP . I much rather if the team were just told 2 years ago to have 3 to 4 years making a Sonic game soul for the next gen and concentrate and work on nothing else than making a top quality Sonic game for the next gen (even if it just uses the best parts/stages  from the likes of Colors, Sonic Adv and Adv II) .
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It doesn't matter if it isn't, as long as it's a remake
The remake cop out ? . The upcoming DMC and DMV IV, Dark Souls II for the Xbox One and PS4 aren't remakes. I doubt many people will class them as new games for the Xbox One or PS4 , even if technically (at a push)  they are.
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Oh get lost. You'd rather scream like a fangirl over new technology instead of well thought out gameplay
LOL . Just admit the real reason for insult , is you haven't got anything to comeback with SEGA Japan simply don't have any tech engines to show off . Don't come it with the gameplay , because also with out a game engine you'll no game either and having good tech and decent pipe lines help the team make really good games and tech and engine count for a lot . With out the tech Jet Set Radio or the likes of Rez , Shenmue or even Exhumed on the Saturn  wouldn't be half the games they were .
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And double get lost if you think people should only enjoy AAA games, it says it all about you
More insults charming :( and I see more of your trademark spin . I'm sorry I don't just enjoy AAA games , but I like games to look good and where the produces give the team all they can to make the best game . I hardly doubt many people will call Ninja Blade or O.TO.GI II AAA games - but I loved them and its where the Team were allowed to make the games they like to make with some nice tech behind the game, very much like Binary Domain.
I really doubt Bloodbone is breaking any sort of budgets records - All it is a game made by a good team with some good Art and a nech tech from the R&D dept . Now if a tiny corp like  Fromsoftware can do it, SEGA Japan should really be able too .
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I do find Nagoshi's comments about Grand Theft Auto staggeringly hypocritical and silly
That's Nagoshi-san for you . I remember him saying that it would be easy for him to make a Monkey Ball 3 and then going into a rant about how there's too many sequel's, its too easy for teams and its not the SEGA way to make endless sequels lol .

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I just don't understand why this series wouldn't work in the west, as many others have said

I think it came out late in the West and it was also hurt by the press (and this wasn't really SEGA fault) making out it was Shenmue meets GTA when the game totally wasn't . It was really a RPG dressed up in a modern world and so many people who were expecting a GTA game were in for a shock when they played Yakuza . It also was a very grown up game that took a while to get going and that never helped it .  It's a shame as I feel Yakuza II was one of the best ever games made for the PS2

 











 





« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 04:27:10 am by Team Andromeda »
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Offline crackdude

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #292 on: February 18, 2015, 08:15:26 am »
Question is, at which point do I have to learn Japanese to enjoy the good Sega games. The Japan output is fucking amazing, here in the West it's....in fault, at best.

In my opinion there should be:
Sega Japan, making games
Sega America, translating and publishing SJ games on the West
Sega Europe, handling the 2nd party games

Sega should just embrace their japaneseness and focus on that niche in the West. There is space and demand for those games, and it would help Sega build up some much needed identity.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 08:18:55 am by crackdude »
SEG4GES

Offline MadeManG74

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #293 on: February 18, 2015, 08:20:58 am »
^Honestly there's not much in Japan that interests me either. Now that Yakuza is getting translated, what do you want to play that's Japan only?

Offline crackdude

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #294 on: February 18, 2015, 09:09:31 am »
^Honestly there's not much in Japan that interests me either. Now that Yakuza is getting translated, what do you want to play that's Japan only?
Mainly, PSO2.
But there's also some cool looking games on the 3DS, there's that PS3 game with the fighting anime chicks, Shining Resonance looks cool. Yakuza Zero is Japan exclusive for now as well, right?

Thing is, there are games coming out in Japan. Sega Games. I love Sega, I want to play their games, but I feel the West gets some bloody crums.
SEG4GES

Offline Trippled

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #295 on: February 18, 2015, 09:33:50 am »
Sega America, translating and publishing SJ games on the West
Sega Europe, handling the 2nd party games

Most people don't know, but Sega of America doesn't translate...Sega of Japan outsources translations to companies like Pole to Win etc. and then sets up staff to programm the translations into the game. Sega of America is all promotion and strategy etc.

Localization - SEGA of Japan Staff Credits

Product Development - Programming Lead   Tamotsu Maeno
Product Development - System Programming   Tomonori Oshita
Product Development - Interface Design Production   Miho Nakamura
Product Development - Game Design   Mariko Kawase
Product Development - Localization Support   Hiromi Okada, Ryuki Matsuda, Hiroshi Ichikawa
Product Development - Special Thanks   Hiroyuki Sakamoto
Product Testing   Kouji Nagata, Junichi Shimizu, Akira Nishikawa, Osamu Satō, Kenji Takano, Keiichi Kigawa
Manual Production   Yoshihiro Sakuta, Colin Restall, Tetsuya Honda
Localization Support   Tatsuya Shikata, Nobuyuki Minato, Ai Sato
Text Localization   Pole To Win Co. Ltd.


That's not much staff. Only a single person is doing the programming. No wonder the localization takes 9 months.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 09:36:01 am by Trippled »

Offline Aki-at

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #296 on: February 18, 2015, 12:43:24 pm »
Sales say otherwise and its got so bad for Sonic we've even had topics on here so about should SEGA leave Sonic alone and now with the news that Sonic Team are going mobile it looks like Sonic isn't going to be making his great return to the next gen consoles.

Sales say otherwise? What outside of Sonic Heroes, Sonic Generations did over 2 million, probably 3 by now, Sonic Colours has done over 2 million, probably 3 to 4 million by now considering the long tail. What, you think one failure is going to end the Sonic series, you're completely incorrect in that regards. Over 100 million downloads between Dash, Jump and Jump 2 I'm sure.

And quality wise Sonic is better now than he was in the 00s.

And people have asked Sonic to be left alone by SEGA (Or rather better care, but it seems you have trouble understanding basic points.) because Sonic Team is the most incompetent major developer in the industry which they've demonstrated time and again.

Why do people even class Shadow as a Sonic game is beyond me - Its not a Sonic game but a spin off just like Lugi Mansion isn't a Mario Platform game  . Under Sammy we've saw the mess that was Sonic 06 and then Sonic Unleashed, Sonic Boom which hurt the Sonic brand along with trip like Sonic the Black knight and then the total cock up of making Sonic exclusive to the Wii U and the sales disasters  that Sonic Boom and Sonic Lost World .So no Sonic isn't in good shape at all and now thanks to Sammy isn't even a million selling IP . I much rather if the team were just told 2 years ago to have 3 to 4 years making a Sonic game soul for the next gen and concentrate and work on nothing else than making a top quality Sonic game for the next gen (even if it just uses the best parts/stages  from the likes of Colors, Sonic Adv and Adv II) .

Bloody hell what's wrong with you? You class Shadow the Hedgehog as a spinoff but tripe like Sonic Boom and Sonic and the Black Knight is not. And now you've shifted the discussion to blaming Sammy when we were talking about what happened under Naka's watch, face up to the fact he left the franchise in utter chaos.

Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic 06 hurt the brand a lot more than any of those aforementioned titles and it's in a slightly better condition. You using one complete failure as to paint the franchise is doomed is stupidity, the franchise was in a worse state in the the mid 2000s and here we are, still getting Sonic games.

The remake cop out ? . The upcoming DMC and DMV IV, Dark Souls II for the Xbox One and PS4 aren't remakes. I doubt many people will class them as new games for the Xbox One or PS4 , even if technically (at a push)  they are.

There is no cop out, you cannot understand English for some reason and you seem to jump some loops to not get what content even means.

LOL . Just admit the real reason for insult , is you haven't got anything to comeback with SEGA Japan simply don't have any tech engines to show off . Don't come it with the gameplay , because also with out a game engine you'll no game either and having good tech and decent pipe lines help the team make really good games and tech and engine count for a lot . With out the tech Jet Set Radio or the likes of Rez , Shenmue or even Exhumed on the Saturn  wouldn't be half the games they were .

Like I said, I'm not the one who goes all giddy over the latest Sonic Team disaster because HEDGEHOG ENGINE IS SO AWESOME (Even though it's been debunked plenty of time it is a pretty poor engine.) and how Resident Evil 6 is fantastic because you seem to be in love with the technical power of the title.

The insult will keep coming with the stupid character assassinations you attempt, calling out me for my "supposed" spin because you don't seem to understand basic English.

More insults charming :( and I see more of your trademark spin . I'm sorry I don't just enjoy AAA games , but I like games to look good and where the produces give the team all they can to make the best game . I hardly doubt many people will call Ninja Blade or O.TO.GI II AAA games - but I loved them and its where the Team were allowed to make the games they like to make with some nice tech behind the game, very much like Binary Domain.

Trademark spin like how several = seven to you. This isn't me spinning, this is you lacking understanding of certain words in the English language.

I really doubt Bloodbone is breaking any sort of budgets records - All it is a game made by a good team with some good Art and a nech tech from the R&D dept . Now if a tiny corp like  Fromsoftware can do it, SEGA Japan should really be able too .

And now you come back to my VERY first point that I spoke about a long time ago. That unless someone is willing to pay up, in this case Sony, for the budget of these games than Japanese developers will not be inclined to produce it.

Offline Team Andromeda

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #297 on: February 18, 2015, 04:23:49 pm »
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Question is, at which point do I have to learn Japanese to enjoy the good Sega games. The Japan output is fucking amazing, here in the West it's....in fault, at best.

And these amazing games would be ? I can't think of many good SEGA Japan made in the last year on this or last gen set of consoles (non HH)

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Sales say otherwise
Yes they  do . Sonic Boob  and Sonic Lost World haven't even broken the million barrier for sales. The worst we've ever seen for Sonic in recent memory  . Sorry mate Sonic isn't in good shape and at all . He's now the but of all jokes again and worst still SEGA only world wide multi million selling IP, now  isn't a multi million seller . Cheers Sammy keep the good work coming .
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Sonic Team is the most incompetent major developer in the industry
I would put to you that Sonic Gen , Sonic Colours and PSO II are rather good games .

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There is no cop out

Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?

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and how Resident Evil 6 is fantastic because you seem to be in love with the technical power of the title

Were are getting very childish aren't we ?. Like you to point out where I ever said Hedgehog engine was the best around , much less that I was in Love with RE 6 . RE 6 is a 'nice' game, but for  me Deep Space II were simply better horror games for me .

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Trademark spin like how several

Try no . I don't like a game just because some might class it as AAA. I don't like any of the GTA 3D games, but I do admire the tech and work that went into them .

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That unless someone is willing to pay up, in this case Sony

Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ?  , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech . Capcom made a class next gen with its MT framework and the likes of SONY or MS didn't pay for Lost Planet II or RE 5 . SEGA Japan are just behind on the tech game , face it







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Offline Aki-at

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #298 on: February 18, 2015, 05:58:28 pm »
Yes they  do . Sonic Boob  and Sonic Lost World haven't even broken the million barrier for sales. The worst we've ever seen for Sonic in recent memory  . Sorry mate Sonic isn't in good shape and at all . He's now the but of all jokes again and worst still SEGA only world wide multi million selling IP, now  isn't a multi million seller . Cheers Sammy keep the good work coming .

Neither did the like of Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Sonic Free Riders and a host of other Sonic titles. Outside of what, Sonic: Lost World and Sonic Boom, what do you have to fall back on Sonic's state? Because the series is far from dead and still makes plenty of money. We've got a television show and a film coming along and probably a game for traditional consoles.

Sonic being a joke was thanks to the likes of Shadow and 06, at least the later years with Colours, Generations and Transformed restore some of that dignity. And again, a failure on the Wii U does not mean Sonic isn't a multimillion seller anymore, further more, SEGA have two more multimillion selling IPs.

I would put to you that Sonic Gen , Sonic Colours and PSO II are rather good games .

And these happened under Sammy's watch, which isn't even the point. Naka let the series fall down to the absolute bottom and even Sonic Boom couldn't replicate the travesty that was Sonic 06.

Most of these improvements only happened after what, 9 years of almost constant trash? Surely that's the proof in the pudding of their incompetence.

Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?

New content? No, not what we were discussing with Mang, Crackdude and everyone else. New content means new video games, those have seen releases, even if they were lesser version, in the past.

Were are getting very childish aren't we ?. Like you to point out where I ever said Hedgehog engine was the best around , much less that I was in Love with RE 6 . RE 6 is a 'nice' game, but for  me Deep Space II were simply better horror games for me .

I think considering the position I find myself in this forum, the friends I've established in this community and so fourth, that I'm not at all a child but being accused of spin by someone who does not understand the context of an argument, the definition of the word several and then being character assassinated by said person means I'm allowed to throw it back on you.

And now the you're acting as if you never pointed out how brilliant the Hedgehog Engine is, we've had this song and dance with several members and I recall plenty pointing out to you, much to your annoyance, that there was better engines out that from the likes of EA.

Try no . I don't like a game just because some might class it as AAA. I don't like any of the GTA 3D games, but I do admire the tech and work that went into them .

Now you're not even making sense with the quotes you're quoting.

But this is your problem, it's one of the things you look at straight away instead of "Is this a good game?"


Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ?  , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech . Capcom made a class next gen with its MT framework and the likes of SONY or MS didn't pay for Lost Planet II or RE 5 . SEGA Japan are just behind on the tech game , face it

Of course Sony Japan and SEGA's close relationship works for Yakuza, when have I stated otherwise?

Dark Souls II only happened after Sony launched Demon's Souls and From Software was absolutely confident with the likes of Namco, willing to publish the title in the West from them. Capcom perfectly illustrates my case, from support from Microsoft with the releases of the original Dead Rising (And the third.) and Lost Planet to getting Sony to pony up for Street Fighter V and Deep Down, otherwise Capcom have been reluctant to produce major titles without a guarantee they will make profit off of the title.

So now we come full circle to my point, that content from Japanese developers or publishers are going to dry up unless one of the console makers pays up for it, is guaranteed to be a success or if the production is cheap enough to produce.

And where have I even said anything about SEGA's tech? Because please point it out, this has been a discussion about new video games, not technical showmanship.

Offline George

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Re: The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America
« Reply #299 on: February 18, 2015, 06:00:47 pm »
OH TA, you mean Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom which are both on the lowest selling Nintendo console did bad? You mean Sonic Boom which wasn't good and came out at the same time as Smash Bros (that had Sonic in it) did bad?

Must mean that Sonic brand is dying. That makes sense. :)