The weak arm becomes the weak finger: 300 Jobs cut at Sega America

[Team Andromeda]

Neither did the like of Sonic and the Black Knight, Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, Sonic Free Riders and a host of other Sonic titles

So lets not make out Sonic in good shape when he's not . The side games aren't much of an issue , but now the main Sonic games aren't even selling close to a million copies and so SEGA Japan haven't got a world wide million seller anymore and its major IP can't sell over a million copies . Sonic not in great shape at all .

OH TA, you mean Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom which are both on the lowest selling Nintendo console did bad?

Yes and if you remember I said years back that the Sonic exclusive deal was a huge mistake and how Sonic should be not only on the next gen , but also a version on the 360 and PS3 - That's the best way to get sales not backing the flop that is the Wii U.

New content?

Spin again ? . Where's the yes or no and btw Dark Souls II on the Xbox One and PS4 features new content, new Online modes and reworked AI. What new content did Ishi on the PS4 feature over the PS3 version other than 60 fps and 1080P ?

And now the you're acting as if you never pointed out how brilliant the Hedgehog Engine is

Try no . I said for SEGA Japan it was a nice engine , compared to Capcom's MT Framework engine it came up way short, but at least the Hedgehog engine used some of the better shader effects and looked quite nice.

But this is your problem, it's one of the things you look at straight away instead of "Is this a good game

Stop the spin when it game is 1st shown off all we have to go on is every a early tech demo or screen shots and so that's when good tech and impressive GFX help to make you look forward to a game and gives you hope that is might end up to be good .

So don't come it on this engine . Look at SEGA America and its Alien Marines game - it got a huge outcry because the final game didn't match the so called real time game demo's SEGA was showing off - That's not a gameplay issue but a engine and GFX one . Still would have been a poor game for some, but if the game had a great engine and looked brilliant then a lot of the Alien Marines bad press wouldn't be there . Keeping with SOA... Alpha Protocol was a AAA game with a Huge budget and a well respected and established team making it , if it game engine and graphics were up to bar I'm sure the game would have done better myself 

Why can't you just admit that SEGA Japan are way behind on the tech game ?


 

[TruthEnigma]

I think a big issue is the AAA business model, just like Hollywood's current massive budget film model is fundamentally broken. An example of that in film is the Green Lantern movie. Whatever you think of the quality, it grossed $250 million world wide in cinema but was considered a flop due to the ridiculous budget it had. In the gaming space, this has led to buggy games being released with day 1 patches to get it on shelves as quickly as possible, day 1 DLC, on-disk DLC, pre-order bonuses, and other policies which erode customer's faith in modern gaming. Even with all these money grabbing policies, we still hear of AAA games selling millions of copies but being considered failures (see Resident Evil 6). The entire games industry should be moving to a model where the games have smaller budgets and thus a higher chance of success. Whether Sega successfully moves to that model is still a question we will not have an answer to for a while yet.

[Team Andromeda]

we still hear of AAA games selling millions of copies but being considered failures (see Resident Evil 6)

Its only really seen as a failure as it didn't feel like a RE game and lost the plot midway through and turned into a 3rd person COD type game .

An example of that in film is the Green Lantern movie. Whatever you think of the quality, it grossed $250 million world wide in cinema but was considered a flop due to the ridiculous budget it had

You're always going to get that . The new Star Wars films were for many rubbish, even though they made millions and millions in profit . You know I bet James Cameron can made films like he did in the old days with rubbish small tiny budgets (I belived he even sleep in car to save in Hotel bills while making Terminator). But you know I rather see Cameron given a Huge budget so he can go to town and give us an epic . That to me is what SEGA Japan should be doing with its better Teams , for sure let smaller teams make the quick and easy game, but give the Yakuza Team and the like , the time money and engine/tools to make a really truly epic next gen Yakuza.


I'll also like to see the PSO II Team give the mandate to make a PSO epic for the new consoles and try and bring back the PSO magic to the consoles

[MadeManG74]

Sonic Boob

HNGGGGGG 

Are the upcoming DMC, DMV IV and Dark Souls II for the Xbox 1 and PS4 remakes ? Yes or No ?

I can't wait for Department of Motor Vehicles IV.

Sony and SEGA do deals with Yakuza don't they ?  , but even looking over that the Dark Souls II wasn't paid for by the likes of Sony or MS, yet it still was a great game with really nice tech .

I would hardly say it had great tech. It was downgraded to hell and looks pretty ordinary actually, they stripped out most of what made it look nice in the early trailers.
Still a good game, but not as good as it's precursors.

[Team Andromeda]

It was downgraded to hell and looks pretty ordinary actually, they stripped out most of what made it look nice in the early trailer

Cut back a little from the demo, but is still looked lovely and was a briliant game . FromSoftware R&D team always give it team some nice tech to play with and have done since the PS days . Lets remember that From only have like 200 staff and yet that can make some stunning looking games fair play to them

[MadeManG74]

Cut back a little from the demo, but is still looked lovely and was a briliant game . FromSoftware R&D team always give it team some nice tech to play with and have done since the PS days . Lets remember that From only have like 200 staff and yet that can make some stunning looking games fair play to them

Cut back a LITTLE!?

Dude, that game was gutted to the shithouse! I've never seen such a horrible downgrade in my life!

Check out this image. Not only was the lighting engine completely removed, but so were the textures on the wall and I believe the character models were downgraded as well.
And after all that, they STILL couldn't get the game to run at 60fps and 1080p.
http://i.imgur.com/O9DCnJn.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kz0vUJc.png
http://cdn3.hobbyconsolas.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/slide/noticias/65392/down.jpg

The way they advertised this game compared to how they released it was diabolical. Even the new re-release doesn't look as good as the original shots.

Say what you like about the gameplay, but you cannot praise this game for it's graphics and 'TECH'.

[Aki-at]

So lets not make out Sonic in good shape when he's not . The side games aren't much of an issue , but now the main Sonic games aren't even selling close to a million copies and so SEGA Japan haven't got a world wide million seller anymore and its major IP can't sell over a million copies . Sonic not in great shape at all .

That's a silly claim. Monster Hunter must not be a 2 million seller because it couldn't shift those figures on consoles. No, it depends specifically if the demograph aligns with the userbase.

Sonic performs brilliant on mobile, his recent legacy titles such as Transformed and Generation continue to chart in good figures, the health of the franchise cannot be dedicated by either Sonic Boom or Sonic: Lost World who are selling worse than the third/fourth year of sales of the respective legacy titles.

Spin again ? . Where's the yes or no and btw Dark Souls II on the Xbox One and PS4 features new content, new Online modes and reworked AI. What new content did Ishi on the PS4 feature over the PS3 version other than 60 fps and 1080P ?

Your lack of understanding English I believe, not spin.

You seem to be unable to grasp that my new content comment was specifically about new video games SEGA, or anyone, was making. How you are failing to understand is leaving me bemused as you keep thinking content = volume or now, as in a portion of the game.

Try no . I said for SEGA Japan it was a nice engine , compared to Capcom's MT Framework engine it came up way short, but at least the Hedgehog engine used some of the better shader effects and looked quite nice.

No you specifically got annoyed when we compared to other engines that were far more impressive, those from Electronic Arts for example, that performed better. So that would indicate that even technology from the biggest third party was being challenged by the Hedgehog Engine.

So we can gather from that you were very invested in defending the engine despite it not being impressive even in 2008.

Stop the spin when it game is 1st shown off all we have to go on is every a early tech demo or screen shots and so that's when good tech and impressive GFX help to make you look forward to a game and gives you hope that is might end up to be good .

So don't come it on this engine . Look at SEGA America and its Alien Marines game - it got a huge outcry because the final game didn't match the so called real time game demo's SEGA was showing off - That's not a gameplay issue but a engine and GFX one . Still would have been a poor game for some, but if the game had a great engine and looked brilliant then a lot of the Alien Marines bad press wouldn't be there . Keeping with SOA... Alpha Protocol was a AAA game with a Huge budget and a well respected and established team making it , if it game engine and graphics were up to bar I'm sure the game would have done better myself 

Why can't you just admit that SEGA Japan are way behind on the tech game ?

I think you'll find there are plenty of game that rely on gameplay and conveying a sense of fun that build up hype just as much as say, new technologies. The first impression of Binary Domain was downright bad, ditto for Vanquish, it was only when gameplay was shown off of either titles did people get interested in either games.

And I don't know why you're trying to bring tech into this discussion. You're beef with my points in this topic have not been about engines or programming but a clear misunderstanding of key words I've been using.

[Team Andromeda]

Dude, that game was gutted to the shithouse! I've never seen such a horrible downgrade in my life

I played the demo and remember the NeoFAQ outcry to that of the final game . The game still looked really good and featured very nice graphics.

I think you'll find there are plenty of game that rely on gameplay and conveying a sense of fun that build up hype just as much as say, new technologies

One can't tell how good or bad a game is until one gets to play it- that tends to happen way, way down the line . When a game is 1st shown off, all people have to go is either a screen shot or a small gameplay vid and then it goes on from there .

No you specifically got annoyed when we compared to other engines that were far more impressive

I like for you to show me and  quote me when I said that the Hedgehog engine was better than Capcom MT Framework or EA Frostbite engine .

You seem to be unable to grasp that my new content comment was specifically about new video games SEGA

So that's code for no there's no new content in the PS4 version of Ishi ?

That's a silly claim. Monster Hunter must not be a 2 million seller because it couldn't shift those figures on consoles

? Monster Hunter is massive  and Capcom are wise not to tie it to the Wii U . Sonic can't even sell well on the 3DS and yet you make out he's in good shape lol  ?

Sonic performs brilliant on mobile

I give you that , sad to see what become of SEGA Japan only worldwide multi million selling IP. If the best you can do is talk about mobile games or Sonic Generations which is old Wii Game .

The first impression of Binary Domain was downright bad,

Until SEGA produced a decent trailer showing footage taken in game and then loads of people started to change their tune on the title.

[MadeManG74]

I played the demo and remember the NeoFAQ outcry to that of the final game . The game still looked really good and featured very nice graphics.

The graphics are really nothing special, did you look at the links I posted in reply? I've finished the game and bought it at launch, I still think it was a pretty good game, but the graphics were mediocre to poor for the most part, and there were clear and disappointing downgrades in the final game. Nickel and Diming with the new re-release is disgusting too.

NeoFAQ?

[Aki-at]

One can't tell how good or bad a game is until one gets to play it- that tends to happen way, way down the line . When a game is 1st shown off, all people have to go is either a screen shot or a small gameplay vid and then it goes on from there .

And you don't need to have a state of the art engine to show off good gameplay.

I like for you to show me and  quote me when I said that the Hedgehog engine was better than Capcom MT Framework or EA Frostbite engine .

I don't have to show you because you can ask any forum member here other than probably Ryan and they'll all back up how defensive you became over the engine. In particular MadeManG pointed out to you EA's racers have a better engine than Sonic Unleashed.

So that's code for no there's no new content in the PS4 version of Ishi ?

No it's you unable to understand English?

Ishin is a new video game, because this isn't a remake or a port. This is what people want from SEGA, that was the basic point I made but you throw in how it couldn't be an original Playstation 4 game. Okay, but that wasn't what was being discussed and you seem eager to rush in and enter an argument without knowing the context of the debate, the use of the words and the points I established.

? Monster Hunter is massive  and Capcom are wise not to tie it to the Wii U . Sonic can't even sell well on the 3DS and yet you make out he's in good shape lol  ?

According to you because specific entries fail to meet targets, without looking at the bigger picture, than we should be concluding that Monster Hunter is no longer a massive franchise. It is of course a big franchise and Sonic is still a multimillion selling IP despite certain failures.

And Sonic does still sell decently on handhelds, he has however, not been a big seller there. The likes of Sonic Rush, Rivals etc do a decent amount but Sonic's real bread and butter are consoles. I'd also add that Sonic Generations did well on the 3DS.

I give you that , sad to see what become of SEGA Japan only worldwide multi million selling IP. If the best you can do is talk about mobile games or Sonic Generations which is old Wii Game .

Sonic Generations was not released for the Wii.

Again this isn't what has become of Sonic because we do not know what else SEGA has planned for the franchise outside of producing the Sonic film, a television series and Sonic Runners. This is about the supposed state of the franchise and historical data suggests that Sonic failed because of the Wii U and not because of the brand.

Until SEGA produced a decent trailer showing footage taken in game and then loads of people started to change their tune on the title.

But the graphics were just as good for Binary Domain in the initial trailer as it was in the later. It was showing of gameplay which excited people, not the graphics of the game.

[Team Andromeda]

And you don't need to have a state of the art engine to show off good gameplay

Sure it's a complete package . But if your game looks great then its helps to get more gamers interested in the title .If Halo looked like crap on the XBox I doubt it would have got half the hype it did (or sell as well) . If Daytona USA on the Saturn looked half has good as RR on the PS or Sega Rally On the Saturn then I'm sure Saturn sales would have been much better early in .

I don't have to show you because you can ask any forum member

You do have to show it, becasue I never said it all and I  you to prove otherwise . MT Framework engine is the most impressive engine I seen from a Japan developer and for me in most cases more impressive than Unreal 3 .

Ishin is a new video game, because this isn't a remake or a port.

Its a PS3 game running on the PS4 . No different from AC Blackfalg running on the PS4 and XBone One .

According to you because specific entries fail to meet targets

? Monster Hunter more than meets is sales targets . It was the likes of Lost Planet 3 that didn't come close to their sales targets .

And Sonic does still sell decently on handhelds

That's it in a nutshell . SEGA's once mighty IP now can only sale in decent numbers onthe mobile platform and even then Sonic sales of late on the handheld aren't that great

SEGA has planned for the franchise outside of producing the Sonic film, a television series and Sonic Runners

That to me sounds like a sure fire way to kill Sonic once and for all .

[Ranger X]

Sure it's a complete package . But if your game looks great then its helps to get more gamers interested in the title .If Halo looked like crap on the XBox I doubt it would have got half the hype it did (or sell as well) . If Daytona USA on the Saturn looked half has good as RR on the PS or Sega Rally On the Saturn then I'm sure Saturn sales would have been much better early in .



You do have to show it, becasue I never said it all and I  you to prove otherwise . MT Framework engine is the most impressive engine I seen from a Japan developer and for me in most cases more impressive than Unreal 3 .

 Its a PS3 game running on the PS4 . No different from AC Blackfalg running on the PS4 and XBone One .



? Monster Hunter more than meets is sales targets . It was the likes of Lost Planet 3 that didn't come close to their sales targets .



That's it in a nutshell . SEGA's once mighty IP now can only sale in decent numbers onthe mobile platform and even then Sonic sales of late on the handheld aren't that great



That to me sounds like a sure fire way to kill Sonic once and for all .

Sega's biggest problem is they have only one global brand (Sonic); the rest of their line-up is either Japan only or Western only. This makes them increasingly irrelevant in the global market.


Instead of building up or rebuilding their IPs, they have thought short-term and just spammed out Sonic games with no regard for quality.


That's Sammy in a nutshell; the quick, cheap, fast buck, no long term building. They don't care and it shows.


Contrast this with the Sega of the 80s and 90s which made games (OutRun being the most genius example of this) aimed at appealing to the global market.

[George]

Its funny that TA is OK with Monster Hunter, a non-triple AAA franchise selling a lot, further enforcing my point that Triple A (aka big budget titles) are products of the mid 2000's.

Get with it, kids, teens and adults are all enjoying  millions of mobile apps and indie games. Game's like Dark Souls and Monster Hunter are the craze. Retro remakes are making bank.

Sure, triple A titles will always exist, but that place is so crowded that we are seeing tons of companies fail (see the list of all Capcom western AAA titles).

Hate SEGA, but they are the ones pushing forward to new frontiers: Leading mobile and having western studios that actually have established brands (Total War, Company of Heroes, Football Manager) while Capcom made Dark Void.

I do agree that Capcom is better at sponsoring in-house IPs (for the most part) world wide than SEGA. Street Fighter is still a house hold name, especially after the focus on 4. Monster Hunter shares success world wide.

Sadly they also fuck up (see Megaman).


I do wish that SEGA would focus on making VF6 a success that VF4 was world-wide (game did over a million in the west).

[Nirmugen]

The problem was always Sega of  America post 2004 or even post-Dreamcast sometimes.

Sega of Japan always do what they do but the principal western side of SOA screwed up so many times even with the good will of Hayes on the board. Remember, Hayes was President in both sides of the West.

I hope that the new team in Southern California erase all the past mistakes and do what they did it right years ago.

[George]

Oh yeah, which I don't get why people where shocked that SEGA of America 'cleaned house'. Hey, I think one of the strongest thing SOA did was have good community team for fans and was doing decently with digital titles. Outside of that, its really hard to look at all the retail games SOA handled and go 'Oh no, I'm going to miss this'.

So i'm shocked at how many people where made at the firings.


It wasn't about the money, SEGA Networks just bought 3 new teams in America after they announced the firings. In the end, it was just SOA blundering all the games they where a part of. Honestly would have cut ties after Golden Axe was screwed up.

How you gonna get a team that is terrible?