Shinobi: The Complete History

[Berto]

SHINOBI: The Revenge of Shinobi Immaculate Collection Joe Musashi 1:12 Scale Action Figure is available for pre-order on the SEGA Shop website

FEATURES

Poseable: 32 points of articulation
Height: 6” (15.24 cm)
Clothes: Premium tailored soft goods
Comes with accessories to recreate your favorite poses and sequences from the video game
Product color may vary from images shown due to screen display variance.

Link: https://shop.sega.com/products/shinobi-the-revenge-of-shinobi-immaculate-collection-joe-musashi-1-12-scale-action-figure

[Mystic Monkey]

Get that outta mah face!

They couldn't help if SEGA didn't ask them to and SEGA was too proud of themselves to do that at that time, releasing Rise of Lyric even though the game wasn't ready (and this wasn't the first time they did that ... Sonic 06 was more cahotic).

But we don't know if it's entirely Sega's fault.

I just don't like that, it was supposedly a "partnership", and partners work together to help one another. Especially given Nintendo wanted the Wii U to have a good impression. But when people criticized Rise of Lyric for being bad or Lost World for being more like  a Mario game, instead of Nintendo taking up some responsibility as partners would do, they just let the fans mock Sega while Nintendo stays squeaky-clean of the whole affair.

If we were partners, and you didn't want my help on your end of the deal, I will oblige. But if you are struggling, I would still offer help, especially given I would want your side of the project to be just as good as mine. And even if in the end, our project ends up shit, I would still take a fair bit of responsibility for the failure, than let everyone blame you while I slip out the back.

I think Crazy Taxi World Tour's having open world mode is a proof that SEGA listened to the fans.

Is it though? Or is it because it's not an arcade game like the prequels. I remember you telling me Virtua Fighter: Crossworld would likely not have a story mode at all if Sega were still in the arcade business.

Yes, that's a risk so for this kind of things I would hope that the games were developed by SEGA of Japan's internal studio.
Golden Axe Beast Rider wasn't developed by SEGA of Japan's internal team, they're being developed by SEGA of America's Secret Level team.
Shinobi PS2 was developed by Sega's internal development studio, Overworks (formerly known as AM7).
Despite the harsh reviews for being a difficult game, Shinobi for the PS2 was actually a commercial success.
The sequel, Kunoichi / Nightshade, sadly wasn't. I don't know why. May be they should stick the title with Shinobi 2 instead of changing it.

So, the Power Surge games may still be commercially good?

Kinda like Nintendo fans attacking Sonic Adventure 1-2 on Dreamcast but then they're welcoming the games when they came to Game Cube.

It's a hypocracy. Mario on Nintendo consoles, they're okay with. Sonic on Nintendo consoles, a console war victory. But now Sonic and other Sega games are multi-platforms, Nintendo fans no longer regardSega on Nintendo's level.

[Berto]

But we don't know if it's entirely Sega's fault.

I just don't like that, it was supposedly a "partnership", and partners work together to help one another. Especially given Nintendo wanted the Wii U to have a good impression. But when people criticized Rise of Lyric for being bad or Lost World for being more like  a Mario game, instead of Nintendo taking up some responsibility as partners would do, they just let the fans mock Sega while Nintendo stays squeaky-clean of the whole affair.

If we were partners, and you didn't want my help on your end of the deal, I will oblige. But if you are struggling, I would still offer help, especially given I would want your side of the project to be just as good as mine. And even if in the end, our project ends up shit, I would still take a fair bit of responsibility for the failure, than let everyone blame you while I slip out the back.

SEGA didn't really struggle. May be most of their WiiU games were a miss, but their Sonic games on 3DS still sold well. Mario and Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games did well too on both system.

Is it though? Or is it because it's not an arcade game like the prequels. I remember you telling me Virtua Fighter: Crossworld would likely not have a story mode at all if Sega were still in the arcade business.

The prequel wasn't arcade game, it's a console game.
Sure it's released for arcade too a year later, but Crazy Taxi 3 was made for console first.

So, the Power Surge games may still be commercially good?

The potential is still high, otherwise SEGA would just stopped the projects right now.
They only changed direction from live services games (for Crazy Taxi World Tour and Jet Set Radio) to full paid experience.

It's a hypocracy. Mario on Nintendo consoles, they're okay with. Sonic on Nintendo consoles, a console war victory. But now Sonic and other Sega games are multi-platforms, Nintendo fans no longer regardSega on Nintendo's level.

SEGA's really not on Nintendo level anymore though.
Nintendo reported ¥2,313 billion in total net sales for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2026 while SEGA's only ¥487.5 billion on net sales.

[Mystic Monkey]

SEGA didn't really struggle. May be most of their WiiU games were a miss, but their Sonic games on 3DS still sold well. Mario and Sonic at the Rio 2016 Olympic Games did well too on both system.

Theyptrtty much thrived on the Wii, NDS and N3DS.

The prequel wasn't arcade game, it's a console game.
Sure it's released for arcade too a year later, but Crazy Taxi 3 was made for console first.

I'll be honest, I forgot there was more than two Crazy Taxi games. That and the mobile game.

The potential is still high, otherwise SEGA would just stopped the projects right now.
They only changed direction from live services games (for Crazy Taxi World Tour and Jet Set Radio) to full paid experience.

As in I buy a game at full price, no premium crap?

SEGA's really not on Nintendo level anymore though.
Nintendo reported ¥2,313 billion in total net sales for the fiscal year ending March 31, 2026 while SEGA's only ¥487.5 billion on net sales.

I know, but in one point in history they were. If your kids were born after 2000, ask then if they believe Sega were once as giant as Nintendo.

[Berto]

Theyptrtty much thrived on the Wii, NDS and N3DS.

Lol no. While review-wise form game websites and magazines they're mixed but sales-wise they're successful on those systems. Sonic Colours sold approximately 4 million copies globally across both Wii and NDS combined, Sonic Generations on 3DS outsold the 'real' version on PS4, and even their first try on dual screen system Sonic Rush on DS sold 1.6 million copies worldwide. Sonic Rush even received a "Platinum" sales award in the UK for selling a lot of copies there.
The only consoles where SEGA's struggling are WiiU and Playstation Vita.
SEGA doesn't even want to make Sonic games on Vita other than this one :

I'll be honest, I forgot there was more than two Crazy Taxi games. That and the mobile game.

Mobile 'games', they're plural since there were three of them. 

As in I buy a game at full price, no premium crap?

That's the plan rigt now.

I know, but in one point in history they were. If your kids were born after 2000, ask then if they believe Sega were once as giant as Nintendo.

They know how big SEGA back then, they just don't have any favoritism or hatred towards certain game companies or consoles.

[Mystic Monkey]

Lol no. While review-wise form game websites and magazines they're mixed but sales-wise they're successful on those systems. Sonic Colours sold approximately 4 million copies globally across both Wii and NDS combined, Sonic Generations on 3DS outsold the 'real' version on PS4, and even their first try on dual screen system Sonic Rush on DS sold 1.6 million copies worldwide. Sonic Rush even received a "Platinum" sales award in the UK for selling a lot of copies there.
The only consoles where SEGA's struggling are WiiU and Playstation Vita.
SEGA doesn't even want to make Sonic games on Vita other than this one :

So I was right? They did thrive on the Wii, NDS and N3DS.

Mobile 'games', they're plural since there were three of them. 

I forgot them too.

That's the plan rigt now.

I don't mind DLCs though. They're the only payments I'm willing to do.

They know how big SEGA back then, they just don't have any favoritism or hatred towards certain game companies or consoles.
Ah, you raise 'em well.

[Berto]

So I was right? They did thrive on the Wii, NDS and N3DS.

Eh, yes, you're absolutely right.
Why did I say no?  I guess I'm losing my focus for a moment. 
Also ... Funny thing about PS Vita, SEGA's doing great with it in Japan, but not overseas.
That's why SEGA still made some games for it for Japan market but refused to localize for the west.

Ah, you raise 'em well.

They lack the war spirit though! The console war spirit!!! 

[Berto]

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[Mystic Monkey]

Eh, yes, you're absolutely right.
Why did I say no?  I guess I'm losing my focus for a moment. 
Also ... Funny thing about PS Vita, SEGA's doing great with it in Japan, but not overseas.
That's why SEGA still made some games for it for Japan market but refused to localize for the west.

I find PlayStation somewhat... uh, "double-sided" for it's Japanese and Western customers. It's not entirely separated but it's like they cater of them separately. Nintendo is a bit like that, but because they also have family values, they still market games for both sides than one or the other, though still have exclusives for Japan.

They lack the war spirit though! The console war spirit!!! 

I don't think there is anything wrong with brand-competitiveness as long as it's not overboard.

Take football, or any major sports for examples. Fans wearing the colours of their favoured teams, they can get violent against fans of opposing teams, but usually they are united by love of the game. Of course football tends to be more cultural, with Football Clubs representing cities or countries, bearing national flags and such.


But a more closer-to-home example would be the Cola Wars. I remember when Coca-Cola and Pepsi Had attack-ads against one another, with the opposing drinks being depicted negatively. The thing is though, the legal teams of both The Coca-Cola Company and PepsiCo. Must have come to agreements for their beverages to be depicted in negative light in each other's commercials. Why did they do this? I believe it's because they knew pitting their consumers against one another will encourage more sales and merchandise. And it worked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4KL15RGeNo

It's not just Coca-Cola and Pepsi, Harry Potter is another example! Warner Bros doesn't just sell merchandise of Harry Potter, but of Hogwarts as well. Specifically merchandise, robes and decor around the Hogwarts Houses. It doesn't exactly "divide" the fandom, but still encourages tribal-ideals in the fandom and can be competitive towards one another. Especially Gryffindor and Slytherin. All the while, Warner Bros. holds all the cards! Doesn't matter if you're buying merch to support Gryffindor to oppose Slytherin, the money goes to Warner Bros!


Another example in mind, World of Warcraft. With the conflict between the noble Alliance and the honourable Horde. Blizzard has sold merchandise separately of both factions. From what I understand, in latest expansions of the game, PvP boundaries between the factions have been removed in favour for players being more sociable amongst the factions. But Blizzard still have the rivalry of the factions. They are aware their players take pride in their choice of factions, so they market from it. Battle for Azeroth was perhaps peak marketing for Blizzard over their factions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCo3_LclJKU

The '90s Console War was famous for Sega and Nintendo competing against one another with making and selling consoles. Nintendo had the NES and SNES while Sega had the Master System and Mega Drive. While the brand-new PlayStation caught Sega and Nintendo's attention, there was still a rivalry between N64 and the Sega Saturn. But you know what made Sega and Nintendo's rivalry particularly heated? The consumers who were buying the consoles were also taking up that rivalry themselves. I don't know if it went as far as bullying on the playground, but there were those who were adamant over the console they have in their households... with only the particularly well-off kids who could afford both consoles.
Even after the Console Wars, with Sega and Nintendo's rivalry being the most famous, some are still taking sides to this day, despite the fact Sega were no longer the titans on equal to Nintendo they once were. But you would think Sega and Nintendo would at least collaborate to market off that rivalry for both their interests. Imagine how hot a Super Smash Bros. game would be, if it collaborated with Sega All-Stars!


So yeah, I don't believe competitiveness is a bad thing, as long as it's done so healthily and not too aggressively.

[Berto]

I find PlayStation somewhat... uh, "double-sided" for it's Japanese and Western customers. It's not entirely separated but it's like they cater of them separately. Nintendo is a bit like that, but because they also have family values, they still market games for both sides than one or the other, though still have exclusives for Japan.

Yeah X-Box, 3DO, and Atari consoles probably are ones who have more games in the west than in Japan while it's the otherwise for Nintendo, SEGA, and Sony consoles.

I don't think there is anything wrong with brand-competitiveness as long as it's not overboard.

Take football, or any major sports for examples. Fans wearing the colours of their favoured teams, they can get violent against fans of opposing teams, but usually they are united by love of the game. Of course football tends to be more cultural, with Football Clubs representing cities or countries, bearing national flags and such.

What's funny is since our country didn't make it to the FIFA World Cup 2026, some of us have to root for Brazil, Argentina, UK, etc.
We fought over countries that we don't even libve in, lol.
Oh, congrats to UK for having earned Miku from Brazil (who earned from Japan).

But a more closer-to-home example would be the Cola Wars. I remember when Coca-Cola and Pepsi Had attack-ads against one another, with the opposing drinks being depicted negatively. The thing is though, the legal teams of both The Coca-Cola Company and PepsiCo. Must have come to agreements for their beverages to be depicted in negative light in each other's commercials. Why did they do this? I believe it's because they knew pitting their consumers against one another will encourage more sales and merchandise. And it worked!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4KL15RGeNo

It's not just Coca-Cola and Pepsi, Harry Potter is another example! Warner Bros doesn't just sell merchandise of Harry Potter, but of Hogwarts as well. Specifically merchandise, robes and decor around the Hogwarts Houses. It doesn't exactly "divide" the fandom, but still encourages tribal-ideals in the fandom and can be competitive towards one another. Especially Gryffindor and Slytherin. All the while, Warner Bros. holds all the cards! Doesn't matter if you're buying merch to support Gryffindor to oppose Slytherin, the money goes to Warner Bros!


Another example in mind, World of Warcraft. With the conflict between the noble Alliance and the honourable Horde. Blizzard has sold merchandise separately of both factions. From what I understand, in latest expansions of the game, PvP boundaries between the factions have been removed in favour for players being more sociable amongst the factions. But Blizzard still have the rivalry of the factions. They are aware their players take pride in their choice of factions, so they market from it. Battle for Azeroth was perhaps peak marketing for Blizzard over their factions.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCo3_LclJKU

Coca-Cola and Pepsi were produced by different companies, but Harry Potter (with its Gryffindor, Slytherin, etc) was produced by one company.
No matter how divide the fandom, all the money still goes to one company.
I think Coca-Cola and Pepsi war was more real.

The '90s Console War was famous for Sega and Nintendo competing against one another with making and selling consoles. Nintendo had the NES and SNES while Sega had the Master System and Mega Drive. While the brand-new PlayStation caught Sega and Nintendo's attention, there was still a rivalry between N64 and the Sega Saturn. But you know what made Sega and Nintendo's rivalry particularly heated? The consumers who were buying the consoles were also taking up that rivalry themselves. I don't know if it went as far as bullying on the playground, but there were those who were adamant over the console they have in their households... with only the particularly well-off kids who could afford both consoles.
Even after the Console Wars, with Sega and Nintendo's rivalry being the most famous, some are still taking sides to this day, despite the fact Sega were no longer the titans on equal to Nintendo they once were. But you would think Sega and Nintendo would at least collaborate to market off that rivalry for both their interests. Imagine how hot a Super Smash Bros. game would be, if it collaborated with Sega All-Stars!


So yeah, I don't believe competitiveness is a bad thing, as long as it's done so healthily and not too aggressively.

But SEGA's actually doing too aggressively back then, was it a bad thing?

[Mystic Monkey]

Yeah X-Box, 3DO, and Atari consoles probably are ones who have more games in the west than in Japan while it's the otherwise for Nintendo, SEGA, and Sony consoles.

They're international gaming companies, just usually PlayStation (and sometimes Sega) have exclusive to Japan over the West.

What's funny is since our country didn't make it to the FIFA World Cup 2026, some of us have to root for Brazil, Argentina, UK, etc.
We fought over countries that we don't even libve in, lol.
Oh, congrats to UK for having earned Miku from Brazil (who earned from Japan).

I'm not that caught up with FIFA news to know. I'm not really into football. But cute of Miku to support England.

Coca-Cola and Pepsi were produced by different companies, but Harry Potter (with its Gryffindor, Slytherin, etc) was produced by one company.
No matter how divide the fandom, all the money still goes to one company.
I think Coca-Cola and Pepsi war was more real.

I don't know the full-story behind the Cola Wars, but I'm pretty sure it's straight up illegal to use another company's brand without their legal permission. Which, to me, representives and legal teams from Coca-Cola and Pepsi must have sat down in a room together, acknowledge the rivalry their drinks have and how customers were arguing over it and decided how to profit from this rivalry. They must've agreed to allow one another to use their drink-brands negatively in order to drum up more rivalry amongst their consumers, in order to encourage more merch sales. I imagine general clout as well given "bad attention is still attention".

But SEGA's actually doing too aggressively back then, was it a bad thing?

When I say aggressively, I mean from smear campaign to encouraging violence amongst fans. Sega (or at least Sega of America) were running somewhat of a smear campaign against Nintendo, but nothing too serious. They concentrated on why the Mega Drive was better than the SNES than make up lies or half-truths over why SNES was the worse.

There is only two "Nintendon't" commercials I recall with Super Mario footage and that is this one and this one. I doubt Sega got legal permission to display Mario gameplay footage from Nintendo. Either Nintendo did gave them permission, or just rolled their eyes at the time.
When they remade that advert, Sega were wiser to censore the Mario Kart World footage... in fact, isn't that the same narrator as last time?

[Berto]

I don't know the full-story behind the Cola Wars, but I'm pretty sure it's straight up illegal to use another company's brand without their legal permission. Which, to me, representives and legal teams from Coca-Cola and Pepsi must have sat down in a room together, acknowledge the rivalry their drinks have and how customers were arguing over it and decided how to profit from this rivalry. They must've agreed to allow one another to use their drink-brands negatively in order to drum up more rivalry amongst their consumers, in order to encourage more merch sales. I imagine general clout as well given "bad attention is still attention".

That was back then but I believe they have different target market now. Rather than trying to appeal to everyone like what Coke do, Pepsi now is now targeting younger generations (Gen Z and Millennials) by embedding itself into youth culture, music, and sports.

When I say aggressively, I mean from smear campaign to encouraging violence amongst fans. Sega (or at least Sega of America) were running somewhat of a smear campaign against Nintendo, but nothing too serious. They concentrated on why the Mega Drive was better than the SNES than make up lies or half-truths over why SNES was the worse.

There is only two "Nintendon't" commercials I recall with Super Mario footage and that is this one and this one. I doubt Sega got legal permission to display Mario gameplay footage from Nintendo. Either Nintendo did gave them permission, or just rolled their eyes at the time.

I don't think any sane company would make a campaign which encouraged violence amongst fans, that would be a crime.
And what I meant is not about Genesis/Mega Drive vs SNES, but about Game Gear vs Game Boy.
Back then Nintendo fans were outraged of Game Gear ads which insulted Game Boy players and compared them to uneducated people or people with visual impairments.
The first controversial ad suggested "If you were color blind and had an IQ of less than 12, then you wouldn't mind which portable you had" and the other one used a comedic approach to compare the two screens.
It showed a Game Boy player eating bland creamed spinach just to look at the screen, implying that playing a Game Boy was an unpleasant, joyless chore. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kuZRzSLvr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mr0uOYmMOQ

Not just on TVs, but this kind of ads also showed up in game magazines too.
Even for me as a SEGA fanboy, I still thought that was going too far back then.
I prefered the catchy Genesis Does song ad-like.

When they remade that advert, Sega were wiser to censore the Mario Kart World footage... in fact, isn't that the same narrator as last time?

Yeah, same I think. They did this too in Sonic Mania back then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiFgaatXuRc

[Mystic Monkey]

That was back then but I believe they have different target market now. Rather than trying to appeal to everyone like what Coke do, Pepsi now is now targeting younger generations (Gen Z and Millennials) by embedding itself into youth culture, music, and sports.

It's why I am a Coca-Cola guy, that and their drink taste better. I find Pepsi too sweet for me while Coca-Cola has more of a fizz.

I don't think any sane company would make a campaign which encouraged violence amongst fans, that would be a crime.
And what I meant is not about Genesis/Mega Drive vs SNES, but about Game Gear vs Game Boy.
Back then Nintendo fans were outraged of Game Gear ads which insulted Game Boy players and compared them to uneducated people or people with visual impairments.
The first controversial ad suggested "If you were color blind and had an IQ of less than 12, then you wouldn't mind which portable you had" and the other one used a comedic approach to compare the two screens.
It showed a Game Boy player eating bland creamed spinach just to look at the screen, implying that playing a Game Boy was an unpleasant, joyless chore. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kuZRzSLvr4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mr0uOYmMOQ

Not just on TVs, but this kind of ads also showed up in game magazines too.
Even for me as a SEGA fanboy, I still thought that was going too far back then.
I prefered the catchy Genesis Does song ad-like.

Hm, I can see how they would be offensive, but I don't think Sega were directly insulting people with disabilities, given dogs are indeed colourblind. Worst case scenario, they were calling GameBoy players dogs.

Yeah, same I think. They did this too in Sonic Mania back then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiFgaatXuRc

It's a nice callback. If I worked with Sega of Europe's marketing team, I would've made a sequel to this advert.

I would have it that the same trailer parked outside the city (maybe use 3D rendering to recreate it, given it's a brief scene and cheaper), Peter Wingfield would be playing Sonic Mania and talking about it, all the while every now and again clips on a ninja falling from the sky. The advert ends with the ninja falling through the ceiling and Wingfield catching him, saying "I told you I would catch him!"

[Berto]

Hm, I can see how they would be offensive, but I don't think Sega were directly insulting people with disabilities, given dogs are indeed colourblind. Worst case scenario, they were calling GameBoy players dogs.

They're not insulting people with disabilities, they're insulting Game Boy players by saying had an IQ of less than 12.
Calling them dog might still be better since average dog IQ is 100.

It's a nice callback. If I worked with Sega of Europe's marketing team, I would've made a sequel to this advert.

I would have it that the same trailer parked outside the city (maybe use 3D rendering to recreate it, given it's a brief scene and cheaper), Peter Wingfield would be playing Sonic Mania and talking about it, all the while every now and again clips on a ninja falling from the sky. The advert ends with the ninja falling through the ceiling and Wingfield catching him, saying "I told you I would catch him!"

Sadly unlike with the Genesis and JP Mega Drive adverts, I'm not familiar with EU Mega Drive adverts until a lot lot later.

[Mystic Monkey]

They're not insulting people with disabilities, they're insulting Game Boy players by saying had an IQ of less than 12.
Calling them dog might still be better since average dog IQ is 100.

Well, Sega were still pointing out their handheld had colour. They should be thankful Nintendo didn't point out how many batteries it consumed.

Sadly unlike with the Genesis and JP Mega Drive adverts, I'm not familiar with EU Mega Drive adverts until a lot lot later.

That's fine. Neither was I given I grew up with only the free channels back then, which only consisted of four channels. (BBC1, BBC2, ITV, S4C)