Where the Sonic series went wrong, summed up in 60 seconds

[Sega Stylista]

friend, it was the fault of FPS's for antiquating platformers to kiddy games.

I do not agree. FPSs have been extremely popular - And mature since DOOM, probably even before. Platformers aimed at kids have almost always been the best selling and most acclaimed of all time, like many of the earlier Mario platformers. Stuff like Call of Duty was more of a PC thing for years and years, while Halo was always most popular in places most people would not even be interested in Sonic games would play, such as large parties for LAN stuff, which also happened to Call of Duty a lot (just on PCs).

When I was in college the few console gamers back then were playing platformers, 2d shooters and fighters more than fps's.  When fps's got popular both of those genres got kicked to a smaller segment of the game audience. Sony launced PS1 w/ Crash Bandicoot as kind of a default mascot and it wasn't meant to be kiddy. Platformers were once the most popular genre of play and not just with kids but mature gamers.  Their fall coincided with the rise in popularity of FPS.

wiki:

At their peak, platformers were the most popular games on the market.[11] The genre experienced a sharp decline, from 15% of total market share in 1998 to 2% in 2002.[11] Although there are many 3D platform games, few have proven to have the universal appeal of their older games.[11] However, this could merely be a result of a changing market and an increase in game variety

[Team Andromeda]

Their fall coincided with the rise in popularity of FPS.

I think its more the case of people just got bored of them . The market was simply flooded  with them inthe 8 and 16 bit days, even a film licence would even up being a bog standard Platform game.

Point and Click games have had their day, so have Flight Sims, VS Fighters  Japanese RPG's, and Racers have all seen a decline. Its not all down to FPS, its also down to people tastes have changed and a lot of people have simply got bored of those genre's, and in a lot of cases developers just can't cut it anymore.

The same will happen to FPS's , people have already tired of WWII based FPS. They'll tire of HALO and COD when they're milked to hell and back.

Half-Life is better than anything Sonic Team has done since the Mega Drive. There, I said it

I take it that was meant  as an tongue in cheek . Its not really fair to compare HALF-Life to ST games, but I will say PSO was every bit as good and polished as any Value game and that as magical gaming experience.
I also think Samba De Amigo is one of the greatest games ever made, and a game that never fails to put a smile on my face.

[MadeManG74]

I take it that was meant  as an tongue in cheek

Not at all. I honestly think it's leagues ahead of 90% of Sonic Team's output.

[Autosaver]

lol, I noticed how bad Sonic's mouth moves in the DC version. XD

[Team Andromeda]

I take it that was meant  as an tongue in cheek

Not at all. I honestly think it's leagues ahead of 90% of Sonic Team's output.

Well I really don't think you can compare the both.
 But what I will say its that PSO was every bit as good as Half-Life series, in terms of enjoyment I got from the game, same goes for Samba. I really don't think there's many better games or gaming moments or fav memories than PSO on the Dreamcast- It is one of my most treasured gaming moments ever (with any game or any machine)

And I don't think Half Life series is the be and end all for FPS's.
 I enjoyed and rate Riddick, Exhumed (the best FPS I have ever played) Halo, and Duke Nukem 3D above that of any of the Half-Life games (that is just my own views, not meant as a dig or wind up btw)

[MadeManG74]

I take it that was meant  as an tongue in cheek

Not at all. I honestly think it's leagues ahead of 90% of Sonic Team's output.

Well I really don't think you can compare the both.
 But what I will say its that PSO was every bit as good as Half-Life series, in terms of enjoyment I got from the game, same goes for Samba. I really don't think there's many better games or gaming moments or fav memories than PSO on the Dreamcast- It is one of my most treasured gaming moments ever (with any game or any machine)

And I don't think Half Life series is the be and end all for FPS's.
 I enjoyed and rate Riddick, Exhumed (the best FPS I have ever played) Halo, and Duke Nukem 3D above that of any of the Half-Life games (that is just my own views, not meant as a dig or wind up btw)

Don't worry, I respect your opinion. Different strokes for different blokes and all that.
 
Why do you think it's not fair to compare HL with Sonic Team games though? I understand that they are quite different in terms of Genre and all that, but in terms of overall quality/polish/achievement etc I think it's okay.

[Sharky]

I love halflife 2... love it... Still had far more fun with PSO, hell I had more fun with Chu Chu Rocket.

HalfLife 1 and 2 are pretty bog standard FPS when all is said and done... What makes it good is the storyline which is far from bog standard.

[MadeManG74]

I love halflife 2... love it... Still had far more fun with PSO, hell I had more fun with Chu Chu Rocket.

HalfLife 1 and 2 are pretty bog standard FPS when all is said and done... What makes it good is the storyline which is far from bog standard.

IT's much more than the storyline though, the gameplay and level designs were absolutely brilliant. Not to mention the AI for it's time was just outstanding. You had soldiers taking cover, throwing grenades, ambushing you... this was all years ahead of it's time.
Then of course there were the fantastic levels like the electric flooded room, the trash compactor slide, the cliffsides, fighting tanks...

I can understand people not liking it as much as their personal favourites, but to say it's anything less than an absolute classic I can't tolerate!  

[fluffymoochicken]

I can't believe that an actual apples vs. oranges debate about Sonic and Half-Life took place in here. We are so silly, I swear.

[CrazyT]

Well yeah, where else should this thread have gone lol. It's basically a modern sonic bash thread, it could've headed towards a much worse direction if you ask me lol.

In the mean  time, i'm enjoying this half life vs sonic debate XD

[Team Andromeda]

Why do you think it's not fair to compare HL with Sonic Team games though? I understand that they are quite different in terms of Genre and all that, but in terms of overall quality/polish/achievement etc I think it's okay.

Totally different mind sets, development periods (i'm sure if Sonic team had 7 years to polish PSO it would have been polished beyond belief), game strategies, and development Lines (Sonic team have like 3 to 4 lines to Valve 1)

Also In terms of lack of bugs and polish no-one beats NCL imo (as much as I hate to say it).

[Sega Uranus]

Half-Life was Valve's first game, and the last time Sonic Team had an excessive amount of time to develop a game they made Sonic 06.

Apples and oranges though, yeah.

[Team Andromeda]

Half-Life was Valve's first game

Apples and oranges though, yeah.

Half-Life 2 was in development for 7 years. Maybe if PSO was in development for 7 years (I'm sure it would have been ever better)  

But in the end its pointless to compare to the companies

[Sharky]

PSO didn't need 7 years to be just as ground breaking and in my opinion far more fun then Halflife 1.

[MadeManG74]

I'm talking about Half-Life NO NUMBERS. I never said Half-Life 2... The first Half-Life only had 2~3 years in development.

As for saying you can't compare them, I don't agree. Can we not say that Filet Mignon from a nice restaraunt is better than Domino's Pizza because they are 'two completely different kinds of food'? No, because Domino's Pizza is subjectively crappy food. I'm just talking about overall quality/impact on gaming. When you look at the majority of Sonic Teams output, my statement stands solid. There are the occasional titles that give it a run, like Phantasy Star Online though, I agree.

I think you guys are taking this the wrong way though, I was just trying to show Stylista that FPS games aren't inherintly bad, and that some of the best games ever made are FPS.

In any event, anyone saying Half-Life isn't something special really needs to go back and take another look at the game IMO.

EDIT: Just checking, you guys have played the proper Half-Life right? Not the Dreamcast Port?